Succession [HBO] *Spoilers*

johnny_ultimate

Ending a show is hard. How do you wind down multiple years of storytelling in a way that feels satisfying or rewarding? No small task. I think that’s why you’ve seen a lot of shows gravitate towards bolder, less traditional endings - something poetic and abstract. That doesn’t cover all good endings, obviously, but it’s somewhat rarer to see a show that just really nails the ending in a more traditional way.

Which is why what Armstrong and co pulled off here is so satisfying. It feels so apt for these characters and this story. I actually think this season did a really good job wrong-footing us in some ways - to make us feel more sympathy and compassion for these characters, often justifiably so. But I think this really circles back to what the show was always fundamentally about - these petty, sad people stuck in this **** horrific, cutthroat world of corporate greed and backstabbing. That’s what this show was always about: the endless car crash and trauma that was the extended Roy family. And so it only feels right that pretty much all our major characters end up broken, fighting and miserable one last time. Even those that seemingly got what they wanted seem like they’re cursed to further, endless misery. Also: awards, please, for Kieran Culkin in particular for channeling Roman’s inner and outer misery oh so well this season.

And so ‘apt’ is definitely the word here: it feels like such a true, natural ending to Succession, and it’s neat that no major stylistic tricks or gimmicks other than consistently great writing, acting and directing were needed to get there. Oh, and the music of course - the music was **** iconic, always. And don’t get me wrong - I love a more audacious ending too. Anyone who was also watching Barry got something altogether weirder and more adventurous today as well! But this one? It just felt right. That’s a rare treat.

lbj666

Kendall's car crash had to come back into it.. I know it was leverage in season 2 but how could it not come back if he was proposed as CEO again.

Can some one explain the "go get em" from Stewie to Tom ...did the no voters just realize they dodged a bullet and all he cares is share price anyway.

peteeeed

also re-the car crash , roman and shiv seemed more appalled that he might have made the story up rather than killing someone

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656223#Comment_120656223

Stewie is as much of a leech as any of them. He'll latch on to where he thinks the power will be. He was waivering at the start of the episode and wasn't fully committed to voting for Kendall, then joined with Kendall because he got Shiv and Roman and so thought they'd swing the votes. After Kendall lost, Stewie will gladly gladhand with Tom and praise him.

With Matsson/Tom taking over, all the shareholders and directors (including Stewie) get a big payout, but whether they get to still be involved with the company going forward is up to Matsson/Tom (mostly Matsson). Stewie still wants to be involved, so "Go get 'em!"

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655888#Comment_120655888

That was Shiv's plan that morning, when she and Roman agreed to work for Kendall. They even mocked how douchey he'd be on the beach. But that scene in the office with Stewie, she realised he'd never be able to be what Logan was, with or without her help. At that point, it became the more evil of the two options.

She gets a huge payout by selling to Matsson (which they wouldn't have gotten if they didn't) and Tom is the one in power as the figurehead CEO (even though Matsson's pulling the strings). She still does love Tom just about enough to stick with him, especially with their child on the way. Their conversations through the episode show that.

Sure, she doesn't end up in power herself. But Logan wanted the deal, and Kendall would have been a disaster. She's reserved enough capital, goodwill, and staying close enough to power that there could still be options open for her in the future.

EltonJohn69

Shiv stabbed Ken in the back out jealousy and petulance. She was mad that she wasn’t the winner. A heat of the moment decision, not strategic, not a serious person.

Dav010

I think Shiv finally accepts that Tom is smarter than she thought, I think his character has developed more gravitas this season, especially that scene on the balcony. He was the only character who looked like he knew what he was doing on election night, he was working hard during the funeral when he should have been at the corner of the coffin. He is now the dominant partner.

johnny_ultimate

TBH, don’t discount sheer selfishness and envy as a key motivating factor in Shiv’s decision. She’s right that Kendall doesn’t deserve it (as his petulant reaction to her reversal shows), but like the others she is driven by self interest and ego perhaps above all else. If she’s not getting the job, then she doesn’t think Kendall should have it either - even if she’s going to be relegated to a state of misery and endless embarrassment in the process. Roman would’ve been equally likely to backstab his siblings too, had he not been such a broken mess that he could only mutter a pathetic ‘no’ when the moment came.

Navy blue

Absolutely amazing episode and a fitting ending. They f*cked themselves through sheer greed and power hunger. They all ended up absolutely miserable, including Conor, Greg and Tom who knows he is just a stuffed suit and will be fecked over by Matsson at the first opportunity.

Ironically, the most outwardly damaged of the three - Roman - had the most self awareness at the end and looks like he may have found a small bit of peace. Ordering Geri’s favourite drink at the end was a nice touch.

My heart was racing the whole episode, I would need to watch it again to get a lot of the subtleties. I didn’t notice Shiv’s face when Ken was trying to plamass Stewie.

One question I have, when Ken was hugging Roman and his wound re-opened, I picked it up that Roman was deliberately grinding his face against Ken to hurt himself and it was basically an act of masochism. But on Twitter, people are saying that Ken was deliberately hurting Roman while pretending to sooth him. So basically he became his father in that moment, physically hurting his children while messing with their head and pretending to give comfort. Not sure what the correct reading of that scene was, but either way it was a very tough watch and insanely good acting by Kieran Culkin. I would be stunned if he doesn’t clean up come award season.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656635#Comment_120656635

Roman was freaking out that the wound on his head looked too well stitched up, and people would be wondering why isn't Roman getting a chance to be CEO (they all knew Shiv had recently sided with Matsson so knew why it wouldn't be her). Roman was kind of panicking that he wasn't capable of being CEO, but also that people wouldn't see him as being able to be CEO. So Kendall drew him in for a hug, but also grabbed his head and forced it into his shoulder to open the wound. Roman, having previously been subjected to physical abuse from his father probably several times, leaned into it and pushed his own head in too. Kendall is effectively doing what Logan did to Roman, he's using Roman's pain to make him subservient and dependent on him, and Roman gives into it. I think he also said something similar to Roman to what Logan said to Kendall when he hugged him after Kendall caused the death of the waiter.

So it's a bit of both; Kendall used the hug to cause Roman some pain and, literally and figuratively, re-open a wound, but Roman also leant into it and helped cause it to himself.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655894#Comment_120655894

Season 4 was the weakest of them all?

No way, every episode was outstanding. Some of the best TV I've ever seen. Critics scores reflect that too.

Tabnabs

One curious weakness in the final outcome was that Shiv, by virtue of where she sat at the meeting, became the kingmaker. But when she left the Boardroom in a panic, unsure of what to do, unsure of how she felt about Kendall stepping into their father's shoes, she held the deciding vote, she alone chose the outcome of everything.

But, despite all we have seen of her including right up to this episode, she didn't back herself.

She could have picked up the phone to Matson and squeezed his balls so tight until he agreed to her being the CEO, as she had schemed and planned and backstabbed for long long to achieve. But instead she just didn't want Kendall to get the gig and her ability to function as a corporate leader monumentality vanished into thin air.

As an aside, they should rename the series Promotion instead of Succession 😄

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656607#Comment_120656607

To be honest it is a but unclear when and why she finally makes her decision to withdraw support from Kendall- the death of the waiter just seemed like it was thrown out there, like the writers remembered all of a sudden that really bad thing Kendall did and wanted to mine it . When Shiv first started conspiring with Mattson this was the outcome she was going to end with - being out of the business with a payout and not being CEO so I'm a bit unclear why she would be that upset with the outcome as the CEO position was only mentioned in the second last episode.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656662#Comment_120656662

The boardroom vote also reminded me of a previous boardroom set-piece, where Logan managed to cow Roman and bend him to voting the way he wanted just by domineering force of will. Roman was just a damaged little boy around Logan, and he was acting that way around Kendall too. That short spell of influence seemed to crash on Kendall very quickly though, when he panicked and started denying the crash/death ever happened.

Roman would, obviously, never have said the kind of hateful things he said to Kendall in that scene to his father. It was like the spell he was under from the moment Kendall sat in Logan's chair was broken; he realised Kendall wasn't the second coming, just a bluffer - 'we are bullshít'.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656929#Comment_120656929

Yeah as much as the office scene with Stewie showed Kendall up for who he is and what he'd be like as CEO, once Shiv started waivering and saying she was going to vote for the deal, Kendall showed why he's not Logan. He went into panic mode; flailing, lying, pleading. There was no strength in him whatsoever. That was when Roman really saw the same thing Shiv had seen earlier. Kendall just wasn't right for it. None of them were.

castletownman

Whats the story with their mother? All fur coat, no knickers? Leaky pipes in the villa, modest portion sizes for dinner (the horror) and a sparse looking fridge. Isn't that annoying Peter fella not minted in his own right?

I never felt the scenes with her in it flowed well with the rest of the narratives.

lmahoney79

I honestly think this was the best outcome for Roman. Although scary, I think he needs to cut family ties and learn to stand on his own two feet. He seemed to be the only one of the siblings with any kind of morality and feelings. The only one to show true grief for his father (which he was mocked for, which I thought was disgusting but that's the kind of people he needs to break away from). All in all, I think Roman won.

Thelonious Monk

Sad to see it go, but they ended it really well. The music was fantastic in this last episode.

Thelonious Monk

I'd love to see a Disgusting Brothers spin off. Running a hotel in the Bahamas or a cruise ship or something.

El Gato De Negocios

Brilliant final episode to a brilliant series. There is some delicious symmetry that Tom started out riding Shivs coattails in his quest for status and now its her riding his as we finish. Some of the little things in the episode we superb, Karl and Frank deciding they were going to stick around under Tom only for him to say "I dont want those two old cunce around" (or something to that effect). Or the final scene with with Tom and Shiv in the car when he extends his hand and she doesnt take it fully, they are and will be together but never truly "together".

A genuine triumph.

shrewdness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656929#Comment_120656929

"You better be smelling your f*cking armpit Romulus!"

Logan was one of a kind, had serious power. None of the kids were cut out to succeed him, not even close

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657238#Comment_120657238

After four seasons of growth (the death of his humanity/morals) ken had what it takes to rule the kingdom.

eagle eye

A crap ending.

They could have had the vote early in the episode and seen some development of the Roy family in the aftermath.

Ending it as they did gave us nothing.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658313#Comment_120658313

The aftermath isn't as important, but we're still given plenty of information about the characters futures. Shiv and Tom are going to be with each other for the foreseeable future, but not truly together. Roman has been able to unburden himself from the business and his father and feels a sense of relief from it. Kendall has lost what he felt his whole life was aiming towards, and is now lost and directionless.

A few more scenes of them b*tching at each other because of it wouldn't have changed anything. The show was about which of them deserves to take over after Logan, and we got that answer in their argument during the vote; none of them did. None of them deserved it, and none of them were really capable of it. They couldn't be who Logan was. There was no real need for anything after. There is no further development from them. Their lives continue, but the thing they were all fighting for is gone.

MfMan

That piece of paper from Logan's safe with Ken's name on it from episode four, must have been a red herring? Nothing ever came of it really.

cosatron

pregnant cello 😁

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658373#Comment_120658373

The breakup, disintegration of the family could have been developed.

I never got the sense that Roman had unburdened himself. The last we seen of him was relenting to sign the papers which he didn't want to sign in the presence of others.

Shiv didn't exactly clasp hands with Tom.

A true sense of how much they were sheep would have been much better.

I wasn't looking for more of them fighting with each other. I wanted a little more of each of them individually maybe a couple of days afterwards.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658313#Comment_120658313

The show is called Succession. The entire premise of the show is who succeeds Logan. The show ended at the perfect moment in the timeline, we find out who sits on the throne.

What happens next? Who cares? That would be a different show.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658446#Comment_120658446

The show was completely centred around the Roy family and how brittle the connection with each other was and how much influence their father wielded over them.

You could have justed ended it with his death and left us wondering who would succeed. The ending we got wasn't any better.

All we got was Shiv changing her mind at the very last second. That's a very stupid ending.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658373#Comment_120658373

For me, Roman's ending had more of a sense of foreboding to it. A guy as unstable as Roman, drinking alone at the bar, with a certainty that all the relationships in his life are broken or worthless - his siblings, his parents, Gerri, even Matsson and Menken.

I like how we got an insight into how things might go in the future for these characters, but nothing definitive. The ending of The Sopranos was similar, and perfect for a series where the outcome of the plot wasn't the most important thing, but rather the effects everything has on the lives of the people involved. Things won't resolve themselves nicely for any of the Roys, and they didn't for us either.