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Cork developments

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    #1862
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    True
    Should have pulled the plug went it went back to design.

    If I'm not mistaken, they went back to O'Callaghan Properties (the other tenderers for the event centre) and they no longer had any interest. I don't know if they'll be able to immediately restart it now...

    Then again, this is (at least) the second attempt to get the event centre built - it was a condition of the Mahon Point development that it include an event centre, which never transpired either. (Was that also OCP?)


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    #1863
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    snotboogie wrote: »
    I don't know why they went to all of the effort to submit the planning in October only to then balk at the relatively smaller job of providing additional information. Something has turned BAM off this in the interim.

    Yeah, money..
    They're in a win win situation here... And holding all the cards, they started off in a partnership with Heineken, bought out the entire site, have developed everything but the event centre part, (and set a planning precedent for that height and density on that site)
    If they can squeeze more out of the government for the event centre and also stick loads of commercial office space on as well, while loosing the "landmark" building look and cost, then more profit...
    If the government eventually baulk, then can stick in whatever, probably more densely than they would have originally got... More money
    So delay, delay....

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #1864
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Simon Coventry on the radio while ago saying we should see movement over the next few months. Also with Bam building a hotel across the water from the Event Centre, isn't it in their interest to drive on with it in order to fill the hotel. They only make sense together.


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    #1865
    CHealy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Simon Coventry on the radio while ago saying we should see movement over the next few months. Also with Bam building a hotel across the water from the Event Centre, isn't it in their interest to drive on with it in order to fill the hotel. They only make sense together.

    No event center = no hotel. Simple as that.


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    #1866
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    Registered Users Posts: 3,471 ✭✭✭Curb Your Enthusiasm


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Simon Coventry on the radio while ago saying we should see movement over the next few months. Also with Bam building a hotel across the water from the Event Centre, isn't it in their interest to drive on with it in order to fill the hotel. They only make sense together.

    BAM would hardly be running the hotel so once it's built and they get their money, they're gone.

    At this stage, I wouldn't be surprised if the events centre is delayed again and again until it's just outright cancelled... It's disappointing to say the least.


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    #1867
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Several of the proposed hotel developments (and there are a lot now) may be dependent on the Event Centre being built. If that doesn't get built, there's a hell of a knock-on from it.

    At this stage, I'm not sure if there's any easy solution. If BAM/Live Nation get the public money they want, people will be outraged at their repeated incompetence (or chicanery) being rewarded with more money. If they don't get it, the Event Centre doesn't get built, and we probably just see more student apartments on the proposed site (preventing it ever being built there any time in the future).


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    #1868
    leahyl
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    Imagine how amazing an events centre would be if they had just gone with the docklands proposal. Why they went with the beamish site is just mind boggling.


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    #1869
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    leahyl wrote: »
    Imagine how amazing an events centre would be if they had just gone with the docklands proposal. Why they went with the beamish site is just mind boggling.

    Off the top of my head

    1. Beamish site is right beside Washington Street where all the pubs are.
    2. Having it on Albert Quay besides the N27 would have ground the city to a halt when there would be any concert. It’s the main north south artery for traffic movement in the city.

    I don’t see any reason by the way why building it at that location would be more realistic. It would still have suffered from economic feasibility issues.


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    #1870
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Simon Coventry on the radio while ago saying we should see movement over the next few months.
    So he's saying what he said a few months ago. A spoofer.


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    #1871
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    So he's saying what he said a few months ago. A spoofer.

    "When I said it's going to be built next month, I meant it's going to be built next month. You really DON'T have to remind me every year..."

    - Not actually Simon Coveney, but close.


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    #1872
    BazzFan123
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭BazzFan123


    Does anyone have an update on The Prism?


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    #1873
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    leahyl wrote: »
    Imagine how amazing an events centre would be if they had just gone with the docklands proposal. Why they went with the beamish site is just mind boggling.

    How well did O'Callaghan properties go with building the event centre that they contracted to build down in the Docklands....? Must have been about 2001...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #1874
    leahyl
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    Markcheese wrote: »
    How well did O'Callaghan properties go with building the event centre that they contracted to build down in the Docklands....? Must have been about 2001...

    I didn’t even know that they had contracted to build down there. All I’m saying is I think it would be a better location.


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    #1875
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    BazzFan123 wrote: »
    Does anyone have an update on The Prism?

    Decision due in the next few weeks. The developers were in town last week so hopefully that’s a good sign.


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    #1876
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    leahyl wrote: »
    I didn’t even know that they had contracted to build down there. All I’m saying is I think it would be a better location.

    Why?


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    #1877
    leahyl
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Why?

    Why do I need to give a reason??? It’s an opinion

    If you must know, I think there’s a lot more room down there instead of smack bang in the middle of the city centre where it would be an absolute nightmare for traffic anytime there is an event on. Someone mentioned it being a nightmare for traffic along Albert Quay if it was down the docklands - I’ve been to plenty of events at the marquee and don’t recall the traffic being overly busy, no more so than usual anyway - it’s always busy there at peak times. I don’t think traffic can be avoided anyway either way, but I think that it’s a much better location down the docklands with a lot more space to play around with. I would just prefer the docklands for a building like this. Of course the Beamish site sounds good because it’s “near all the pubs” but to me it just looks like it would be extremely cramped there.


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    #1878
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    leahyl wrote: »
    Why do I need to give a reason??? It’s an opinion

    You don’t have to but it would be pretty strange to hold an opinion without any reasoning.
    leahyl wrote: »
    If you must know, I think there’s a lot more room down there instead of smack bang in the middle of the city centre where it would be an absolute nightmare for traffic anytime there is an event on.

    South Main Street is smack bang in the middle of the city centre where car usage is actively being discouraged. With increased public transport this would be perfect. It is also within walking distance of anywhere in the city centre. With the Patrick Street car ban probably being expanded I don’t think this will have much of an effect.

    leahyl wrote: »
    Someone mentioned it being a nightmare for traffic along Albert Quay if it was down the docklands - I’ve been to plenty of events at the marquee and don’t recall the traffic being overly busy, no more so than usual anyway - it’s always busy there at peak times

    The Marquee is less than half the size of the proposed events centre and is located a mile away from the previously proposed location on Albert Quay. Have we learned anything from Mahon Point? Don’t put big big development right beside key arterial routes especially right on key junction. The junction of N27 / Albert Quay / Albert Road is crucial for north south traffic movements in the city and will be the gateway to the entire docklands. It must be protected from congestion as much as possible.

    leahyl wrote: »
    I don’t think traffic can be avoided anyway either way, but I think that it’s a much better location down the docklands with a lot more space to play around with. I would just prefer the docklands for a building like this. Of course the Beamish site sounds good because it’s “near all the pubs” but to me it just looks like it would be extremely cramped there.

    The event centre will be built in an Amphitheatre style and is primarily being built for entertainment purposes. Building it in the central business district makes no sense to me. Given there will be very little open floor spCe due to the design, I’m not sure it will hAve a huge amount of business usage. It certainly won’t be used for trade shows and expos in its current design.

    The only thing the location had going for it was proximity to the train station. However, the Besmish location is no more than a 20 min walk from the train station.


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    #1879
    leahyl
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    Fine, you have your opinion, I have mine.

    I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that the Beamish site is not ideal. Many people have felt this way from the beginning.

    Just one question, since when is the Docklands the Central Business District? Thought that was South Mall. Is the Docklands meant to be the new business district??


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    #1880
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    leahyl wrote: »
    Fine, you have your opinion, I have mine.

    I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that the Beamish site is not ideal. Many people have felt this way from the beginning.

    Just one question, since when is the Docklands the Central Business District? Thought that was South Mall. Is the Docklands meant to be the new business district??

    Albert Quay and Lapps Quay will probably have more office space than the South Mall once the Nav Square development is completed. It will only continue to grow.


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    #1881
    leahyl
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    The area around Albert Quay has more office space than the South Mall combined at this stage and is only growing more and more.

    So is it the new business district??


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    #1882
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    leahyl wrote: »
    So is it the new business district??

    Considering the South Mall continues into Lapps Quay I suspect it’s the same thing.


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    #1883
    leahyl
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Considering the South Mall continues into Lapps Quay I suspect it’s the same thing.

    South Mall and Lapps Quay are on the opposite side of the river and nearer the city centre....just because there are two new office blocks near the docklands doesn't make it the CBD surely? I thought a lot of the plans for the docklands were for accommodation anyway, not more offices, or maybe I'm wrong. I'm not completely up on everything that's happening at the moment, there's so much!


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    #1884
    mire
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭mire


    leahyl wrote: »
    Why do I need to give a reason??? It’s an opinion

    If you must know, I think there’s a lot more room down there instead of smack bang in the middle of the city centre where it would be an absolute nightmare for traffic anytime there is an event on. Someone mentioned it being a nightmare for traffic along Albert Quay if it was down the docklands - I’ve been to plenty of events at the marquee and don’t recall the traffic being overly busy, no more so than usual anyway - it’s always busy there at peak times. I don’t think traffic can be avoided anyway either way, but I think that it’s a much better location down the docklands with a lot more space to play around with. I would just prefer the docklands for a building like this. Of course the Beamish site sounds good because it’s “near all the pubs” but to me it just looks like it would be extremely cramped there.

    To me, Docklands would be my second best preferred location, and I get your logic. However the south main street site will have much more positive impact in terms of regeneration, spinoff and foot fall. When the state is subsidizing a major project like this, it should be located where has maximum impact. In my view locating the event centre in the Docklands would mean that the city centre may not benefit enough. These things should be positioned to take advantage of the high levels of foot fall and sometimes that means shoe horning them into difficult locations – in order to capture economic benefit. I think that the issue of vehicular access should be way down the order of priority. Congestion is part and parcel of having big events in a city.


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    #1885
    leahyl
    Registered Users Posts: 14,258 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    mire wrote: »
    To me, Docklands would be my second best preferred location, and I get your logic. However the south main street site will have much more positive impact in terms of regeneration, spinoff and foot fall. When the state is subsidizing a major project like this, it should be located where has maximum impact. In my view locating the event centre in the Docklands would mean that the city centre may not benefit enough. These things should be positioned to take advantage of the high levels of foot fall and sometimes that means shoe horning them into difficult locations – in order to capture economic benefit. I think that the issue of vehicular access should be way down the order of priority. Congestion is part and parcel of having big events in a city.

    Thanks, I can see your point there alright but I guess my point about the traffic is that people are going to drive as near as possible to these places regardless, to drop people off, (Cork people like their cars!!) so unless they block off all surrounding roads to private traffic, then it will be extremely congested. Now maybe I'm wrong and people will all take buses to come into town for an event. The roads around the beamish site are so narrow. I don't know, I guess it's all about changing the mindset about driving into the city centre too and people are so opposed to this with the Patrick Street ban already so...

    I would still pick somewhere on the Docklands though. I didn't realise that the original proposal for the Docklands was right across from the idle hour. I thought it was further down the docklands. I wouldn't think there would be best either but definitely further down.


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    #1886
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    For major events, the area around the center would be closed off. Traffic is a non issue.


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    #1887
    timmyjimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭timmyjimmy


    mire wrote: »
    To me, Docklands would be my second best preferred location, and I get your logic. However the south main street site will have much more positive impact in terms of regeneration, spinoff and foot fall. When the state is subsidizing a major project like this, it should be located where has maximum impact. In my view locating the event centre in the Docklands would mean that the city centre may not benefit enough. These things should be positioned to take advantage of the high levels of foot fall and sometimes that means shoe horning them into difficult locations – in order to capture economic benefit. I think that the issue of vehicular access should be way down the order of priority. Congestion is part and parcel of having big events in a city.

    Footfall being the operative word here, you'd be better off walking to the events centre than driving into the city centre. Traffic will be horrible with all the extra cars coming into the city centre for events. At least if it were in the docklands, you would have easy access to the south link and lower glanmire road leading to quicker entry/exit of events if you are travelling from the rest of Munster or further afield. Coming into the city centre might put people off coming to events if traffic is a nightmare.


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    #1888
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    For major events, the area around the center would be closed off. Traffic is a non issue.

    You couldn’t block traffic on Albert Quay as the city would just grind to a halt. Whatever about further down in the docklands, the Albert Quay location would have been a disaster.


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    #1889
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    timmyjimmy wrote: »
    Footfall being the operative word here, you'd be better off walking to the events centre than driving into the city centre. Traffic will be horrible with all the extra cars coming into the city centre for events. At least if it were in the docklands, you would have easy access to the south link and lower glanmire road leading to quicker entry/exit of events if you are travelling from the rest of Munster or further afield. Coming into the city centre might put people off coming to events if traffic is a nightmare.

    I think the opposite. It would just encourage people to drive to the event increasing traffic levels.


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    #1890
    timmyjimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭timmyjimmy


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    I think the opposite. It would just encourage people to drive to the event increasing traffic levels.

    Unfortunately in this country we are a car dependant nation. The events centre (if it does happen) will encourage people to come to Cork city. The majority of these will drive, it's not like we've a public transport system up to scratch. It would be far easier if all the extra cars could park closer to the docklands than say park in town. The docklands is closer to the south link leading to quicker entry/exit.
    Think Pairc Ui Chaoimh when a match is on, not everyone wants to hanging around the city, they come for the event and get out when it's finished. I know PUC has a far bigger capacity but it's just an example of what people do when a daytime event is on.


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    #1891
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    timmyjimmy wrote: »
    Think Pairc Ui Chaoimh when a match is on, not everyone wants to hanging around the city, they come for the event and get out when it's finished. I know PUC has a far bigger capacity but it's just an example of what people do when a daytime event is on.

    That's literally what they don't want. That's of limited use to anyone. If that was the purpose of the building: to enrich a promoter and allow people to see the acts near where they live, then I'd be totally against any public money being spent on it whatsoever. The idea is to boost incomes in the city by getting people to stay, eat and drink.

    They do not want what you're describing. At all.


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