Cork developments

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

The IDA got planning a few months back for enhanced cycle and pedestrian pathways in the estate as well as a bus lane, new bus shelters also. No idea when these might actually be put in place though.

The Bury's Bridge to Carrigtohill "cycleway for pedestrians" scheme is currently in planning too but I suspect most people will avoid using that if it goes ahead as currently designed.

timmyjimmy

namloc1980 wrote: »

The IDA got planning a few months back for enhanced cycle and pedestrian pathways in the estate as well as a bus lane, new bus shelters also. No idea when these might actually be put in place though.

I think I saw something about a bike/pedestrian lane that goes towards Carrigtwohill train station side. I think the aim is to get commuters coming for the station. I think it would be more beneficial if the built a lane towards the west side of Gilead. I have taken the Glounthaune train a couple of times and cycled to work. The Glounethaune train line both the trains going to Cobh and Middleton so there would be more times of travel. With the current config, it takes me around 12/13mins to cycle to work from Gounthaune train station, if there were a cycle lane that would make an easier connection to the Glounthaune train station, I reckon it would take around 5/6 mins to cycle to work.

That's great the bus will travel through the estate in the future. One of the lads I work with uses the bus regularly from Cork city. He said that the bus is empty after dropping people of at the front of the estate. It's a no brainer to go through the estate and more people may resort to public transport.

timmyjimmy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Ah I understand what you're saying now. I don't know enough about that Kildare Village junction or the traffic to the shopping centre to either agree or disagree! I only know that the N25 junction is currently quite busy.



I agree with pretty much all of your post. It's absolutely spot on. LGR, Tivoli and Dunkettle are extremely hostile to cyclists and pedestrians at present.

You're the very definition of the low-hanging fruit I'm always blabbering on about in the infrastructure forum: you actually want to cycle this route, aren't put off by the distance or terrain, and the current transport infrastructure is what's impeding you. I suspect many on the infrastructure forum think I'm making it up but there's absolutely loads of people in your position. I know several in my circle of friends.

I've lived and worked in other cities around the world and Cork is the only one that i've forced to drive. Sorting Tivoli is a no brainer, I can cycle to Little Island from St luke's by bike in 20mins, pretty much the same time as my car in the morning. Carrigtwohill takes me half an hour. Cork is the right size to get cycling right but the powers that be are so car dominant, they can't see that people will cycle if the infrastructure is there. I reckon half of those in power never lived outside of Cork and have no idea how proper cycling infrastructure works. They're happy to live in their semi d in Douglas and drive absolutely everywhere.

hans aus dtschl

timmyjimmy wrote: »

if there were a cycle lane that would make an easier connection to the Glounthaune train station, I reckon it would take around 5/6 mins to cycle to work.

The design for this is in progress at the moment. It's quite low quality unfortunately, with no segregation between cyclists and pedestrians and no protection from parking at the shops/restaurants on the route but it would at least link the IDA estate with Glounthaune train station.

timmyjimmy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The design for this is in progress at the moment. It's quite low quality unfortunately, with no segregation between cyclists and pedestrians and no protection from parking at the shops/restaurants on the route but it would at least link the IDA estate with Glounthaune train station.

That would be awesome if it came into fruition, that would mean that I would use the train during winter to get to work and cycle all the way during the summer if it were safe. I would also mean that I would barely need to use my car.

hans aus dtschl

timmyjimmy wrote: »

That would be awesome if it came into fruition, that would mean that I would use the train during winter to get to work and cycle all the way during the summer if it were safe. I would also mean that I would barely need to use my car.

I think it will happen: they're anxious to upgrade the N25 to M25.

namloc1980

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The design for this is in progress at the moment. It's quite low quality unfortunately, with no segregation between cyclists and pedestrians and no protection from parking at the shops/restaurants on the route but it would at least link the IDA estate with Glounthaune train station.

Is that the Burys Bridge to Carrigtwohill scheme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGKIKZ8M64

rebs23

timmyjimmy wrote: »

I've lived and worked in other cities around the world and Cork is the only one that i've forced to drive. Sorting Tivoli is a no brainer, I can cycle to Little Island from St luke's by bike in 20mins, pretty much the same time as my car in the morning. Carrigtwohill takes me half an hour. Cork is the right size to get cycling right but the powers that be are so car dominant, they can't see that people will cycle if the infrastructure is there. I reckon half of those in power never lived outside of Cork and have no idea how proper cycling infrastructure works. They're happy to live in their semi d in Douglas and drive absolutely everywhere.

Started cycling to Little Island from the City during the pandemic but had to revert to car last week due to traffic increase and you are simply taking your life in your hands along the Lower Glanmire Road/Tivoli/Dunkettle Interchange but I am going to try the train now. Simply hadn't thought of that option but what struck me cycling last few weeks is that it wouldn't take much for a cycle lane along the train line by Tivoli from skew bridge to edge of Dunkettle or along city quays.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

Is that the Burys Bridge to Carrigtwohill scheme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGKIKZ8M64

Exactly that one yes.

Markcheese

namloc1980 wrote: »

Is that the Burys Bridge to Carrigtwohill scheme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGKIKZ8M64

The video looks cool , but why not just put the pedestrians and bikes in the middle of the car lanes ,and remove the need to drive on the left side of the road ,you know a free for all , just for the hell of it ...

Curb Your Enthusiasm

It's an improvement but it's criminal that there's not dedicated cycle lanes.

Captainsatnav

timmyjimmy wrote: »

I've lived and worked in other cities around the world and Cork is the only one that i've forced to drive. Sorting Tivoli is a no brainer, I can cycle to Little Island from St luke's by bike in 20mins, pretty much the same time as my car in the morning. Carrigtwohill takes me half an hour. Cork is the right size to get cycling right but the powers that be are so car dominant, they can't see that people will cycle if the infrastructure is there. I reckon half of those in power never lived outside of Cork and have no idea how proper cycling infrastructure works. They're happy to live in their semi d in Douglas and drive absolutely everywhere.

This...

timmyjimmy

rebs23 wrote: »

Started cycling to Little Island from the City during the pandemic but had to revert to car last week due to traffic increase and you are simply taking your life in your hands along the Lower Glanmire Road/Tivoli/Dunkettle Interchange but I am going to try the train now. Simply hadn't thought of that option but what struck me cycling last few weeks is that it wouldn't take much for a cycle lane along the train line by Tivoli from skew bridge to edge of Dunkettle or along city quays.

It was so nice cycling back into the city seeing so many people out cycling and running and the view of the city up ahead. Now all these people can't cycle anymore and it's back to aggressive driving and no patience. That's one half arsed cycle lane into the city then zero cycle lanes leaving. There is room just lack of will.

Outkast_IRE

rebs23 wrote: »

Started cycling to Little Island from the City during the pandemic but had to revert to car last week due to traffic increase and you are simply taking your life in your hands along the Lower Glanmire Road/Tivoli/Dunkettle Interchange but I am going to try the train now. Simply hadn't thought of that option but what struck me cycling last few weeks is that it wouldn't take much for a cycle lane along the train line by Tivoli from skew bridge to edge of Dunkettle or along city quays.

Yes , the lack of dedicated cycling infrastructure both to and from Little Island to the city is criminal. Its one of the flattest cycling routes possible, following the river. The works ongoing around Dunkettle will provide safer options when its all complete but the lower glanmire road is still a hazard, cycling within feet of 100-80km/hr traffic HGVs is unnerving.

The other item they could of tackled by now is sorting the trains out to take proper amounts of bikes and providing cycling infrastructure around the island, but they havent even made an attempt to pretend they are interested in that.

timmyjimmy

rebs23 wrote: »

Started cycling to Little Island from the City during the pandemic but had to revert to car last week due to traffic increase and you are simply taking your life in your hands along the Lower Glanmire Road/Tivoli/Dunkettle Interchange but I am going to try the train now. Simply hadn't thought of that option but what struck me cycling last few weeks is that it wouldn't take much for a cycle lane along the train line by Tivoli from skew bridge to edge of Dunkettle or along city quays.

There's probably a few more who cycled to little island and are now put off due to traffic. Would something like a cycle train work? Say leave at a certain time and go in convoy.

namloc1980

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Yes , the lack of dedicated cycling infrastructure both to and from Little Island to the city is criminal. Its one of the flattest cycling routes possible, following the river. The works ongoing around Dunkettle will provide safer options when its all complete but the lower glanmire road is still a hazard, cycling within feet of 100-80km/hr traffic HGVs is unnerving.

The other item they could of tackled by now is sorting the trains out to take proper amounts of bikes and providing cycling infrastructure around the island, but they havent even made an attempt to pretend they are interested in that.

Zero interest from either Cork City or County council's in doing anything like that. The only road users they are interested in is motorised traffic. Pedestrians and cyclists are an inconvenience.

Treehelpplease

namloc1980 wrote: »

Is that the Burys Bridge to Carrigtwohill scheme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGKIKZ8M64

I'm confused, is that not just a wider than normal footpath?

snotboogie

namloc1980 wrote: »

Is that the Burys Bridge to Carrigtwohill scheme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGKIKZ8M64

While that's a long way from perfect it would still be the best non greenway cycle lane in Cork.

namloc1980

Treehelpplease wrote: »

I'm confused, is that not just a wider than normal footpath?

It's a 4 metre wide shared pathway for pedestrians and cyclists. Far from ideal but about a billion times better than what's currently there.

lawrencesummers

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's a 4 metre wide shared pathway for pedestrians and cyclists. Far from ideal but about a billion times better than what's currently there.

That’s a pretty quiet road anyway, is it really the most badly needed upgrade of infrastructure for cycling in the city, or just one that can be completed the easiest and cheapest so the council can give a great statistic on having implemented X km of cycling infrastructure???? Wouldn’t a pathway service the south to douglas / Rochestown / grange or the east to Glanmire / little island be far more beneficial.

namloc1980

lawrencesummers wrote: »

That’s a pretty quiet road anyway, is it really the most badly needed upgrade of infrastructure for cycling in the city, or just one that can be completed the easiest and cheapest so the council can give a great statistic on having implemented X km of cycling infrastructure???? Wouldn’t a pathway service the south to douglas / Rochestown / grange or the east to Glanmire / little island be far more beneficial.

Maybe but this is being done by the County Council. City Council would have responsibility for Douglas, Rochestown, Grange, Glanmire etc. Little Island is being incorporated into some upgrades as part of the Dunkettle scheme (whenever it gets going).

The Burys Bridge to Carrigtwohill scheme actually will work well. At the west end it'll link to the Dunkettle scheme upgrades and at the east end it'll link to upgrades in the IDA estate and give direct cycle/pedestrian access to the train station in Carrigtwohill.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

Maybe but this is being done by the County Council. City Council would have responsibility for Douglas, Rochestown, Grange, Glanmire etc. Little Island is being incorporated into some upgrades as part of the Dunkettle scheme (whenever it gets going).

The Burys Bridge to Carrigtwohill scheme actually will work well. At the west end it'll link to the Dunkettle scheme upgrades and at the east end it'll link to upgrades in the IDA estate and give direct cycle/pedestrian access to the train station in Carrigtwohill.

This is effectively a leisure greenway: it's inadequate as transport infrastructure.

The majority of current cyclists will continue to use the road. This was pretty clear in the consultation meetings and submissions. The scheme has no access link to Little Island, Cobh, or Carrigtohill. It's not protected from parking at any of the businesses on the route. The majority of new users will be children going to/from the school at the Dunkettle Interchange, which is a start in fairness.

The Dunkettle scheme consists of a 2km diversion uphill north of the interchange, around 5 roundabouts across two dual carriageway slip ramps and finally into Little Island.

Both of these schemes are straightforward tick-box exercises. There's been no real effort to consider current or potential users. They won't be tested after build to see if they're effective.

The overall objective of both is extremely simple: the upgrade of the N25 to M status.

hans aus dtschl

Treehelpplease wrote: »

I'm confused, is that not just a wider than normal footpath?

Yes.
Also:
It deviates away from the Little Island junction, so is unusable for intending Little Island traffic.
It deviates away from Cobh junction so is unusable for Cobh traffic.
It deviates north of Carrigtohill to avoid the village. The explanation given was that retaining on-street parking is required to support the viability of the town (I did not make that up, they really wrote that).

namloc1980

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

This is effectively a leisure greenway: it's inadequate as transport infrastructure.

The majority of current cyclists will continue to use the road. This was pretty clear in the consultation meetings and submissions. The scheme has no access link to Little Island, Cobh, or Carrigtohill. It's not protected from parking at any of the businesses on the route. The majority of new users will be children going to/from the school at the Dunkettle Interchange, which is a start in fairness.

The Dunkettle scheme consists of a 2km diversion uphill north of the interchange, around 5 roundabouts across two dual carriageway slip ramps and finally into Little Island.

Both of these schemes are straightforward tick-box exercises. There's been no real effort to consider current or potential users. They won't be tested after build to see if they're effective.

The overall objective of both is extremely simple: the upgrade of the N25 to M status.

It's a start and not an end in itself. Cobh is a different beast given the state of the fota road which is lethal for cycling on and bad to drive on too. As I said it's far from ideal but it's better than anything else we have in the county or city.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's a start and not an end on itself. Cobh is a different beast given the state of the fota road which is lethal for cycling on and bad to drive on too. As I said it's far from ideal but it's better than anything else we have in the county or city.

To give you an idea, I cycle this road very frequently and I will specifically not use this scheme as it is currently designed. I will continue to cycle on the road.

1.
At side-roads priority will be ambiguous, whereas the main road priority will be clear/absolute.
2.
People will park on and block the scheme at each of the businesses and the church it passes. People currently park with all four wheels on the footpath there at the moment, and I don't see why they'd suddenly stop.
3.
There's no way of using it to get to Carrigtohill village, Cobh or Little Island.
4.
There will be conflict between pedestrians and cyclists. One person summed up the issue simply: which side should I walk on when a cyclist is coming towards me?

All of the other cyclists at the consultation I attended (4 or 5 cyclists) said they wouldn't use it.
Any of my friends who cycle on that road say they won't use it.

I don't know why they design schemes for cyclists without involving the current cyclists. Go figure.

hans aus dtschl

Anyway, look we digress, this is supposed to be a thread about Cork City developments and we're talking about a tiny scheme outside the city. Maybe best we take it to the infrastructure forum!

snotboogie

Work started back up on the Crows Nest today. Demolition seems to be ongoing at the York Street hotel too.

fonecrusher1

snotboogie wrote: »

Work started back up on the Crows Nest today. Demolition seems to be ongoing at the York Street hotel too.

Yeah seen a bit of activity there today. Delighted. Looks like building around the city is resuming.

Justin Credible Darts

Its all well and good saying pedestrianize this street and that street, people forget that for people to shop, the shops need to replace stock and that means deliveries will be harder.

Again all well and good telling people to deliver at all hours of the morning, but any person now that works doing deliveries, are not going to work new ungodly hours unless they get compensated.
Any guy that was doing 9-5 is not going to start at midnight to be finished before 9am for the same wage.
If the companies have to pay the staff more, deliveries will cost more, items will increase for the customer.


Likewise this notion that cycle lanes is going to solve problems is another fantasy, thats all well and good in the city and most of the southside, but what good are cycle lanes for those living in the northside of the city like Knocka, churchfield and mayfield.

Who wants to cycle up them hills on a pissy wet winters morning cycle lane of not. The priority should be improving public transport first.

***placeholder for some cork person to complain that I must not be from cork because I was negative and never used a capital c ***

namloc1980

Lads will someone get on to the businesses in Grafton Street in Dublin and other pedestrianised places around the world and find out what Voodoo magic they use to get deliveries. Apparently it's almost impossible.