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'Free tolls' for electric vehicles?

  • 16-04-2018 9:45am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ Ixelles


    What treachery is this?!

    January 1: Electric car owners will not have to pay tolls

    April 15: Toll charges to be halved for electric cars

    So, from early summer, it'll be 50% off at peak times and 75% reduction off peak. Doesn't apply to Port Tunnel during peak hours.

    Can't make sense of these two paragraphs - seem to be contradictory:



    The second one is a bit ambiguous but presumably it's the basis of the opening sentence which says EV owners can save 'up to €1,000'.

    The amounts involved are pretty small (to the exchequer, I mean) due to the small number of EVs on the road - and likely to be on the road for at least two or three years.

    Why water it down and make it more complicated? 'Free tolls' was a great headline. 'Discounted tolls by different percentages depending on the time of the day' is just not as catchy. Feels like it was negotiated by a committee.

    This is about sending a signal. Why bother diluting the message?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    To be honest the electric car driver is getting far more grants/freebies than the petrol/diesel driver ever received.

    I have said all along I didn't think the free tolls would work.

    A 50% reduction of up to 500 per year is actually decent for the M50. Half price compared to diesel/petrol is a good offer. Really the main priority of the government should be to get cars off the M50, not get more onto it. So half price is good.

    It's a pity they didn't do anything on the port tunnel in rush hour, this I think would have seen a huge push for electric cars. Even half price for rush hour and don't touch off peak would have been better. But I suppose the port tunnel was not built for private cars.

    All in I think this is actually good....not often I say that about Shane Ross

    Will be interesting to see if tolls outside Dublin are affected?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Ixelles wrote: »
    What treachery is this?!

    January 1: Electric car owners will not have to pay tolls

    April 15: Toll charges to be halved for electric cars

    So, from early summer, it'll be 50% off at peak times and 75% reduction off peak. Doesn't apply to Port Tunnel during peak hours.

    Can't make sense of these two paragraphs - seem to be contradictory:



    The second one is a bit ambiguous but presumably it's the basis of the opening sentence which says EV owners can save 'up to €1,000'.

    The amounts involved are pretty small (to the exchequer, I mean) due to the small number of EVs on the road - and likely to be on the road for at least two or three years.

    Why water it down and make it more complicated? 'Free tolls' was a great headline. 'Discounted tolls by different percentages depending on the time of the day' is just not as catchy. Feels like it was negotiated by a committee.

    This is about sending a signal. Why bother diluting the message?

    The government should be focusing on removing cars off the road. Free everything will push more cars onto the road

    People using buses/trains might start using cars because of all the incentives. This is not what the government want...

    It is a negotiation. You can't make it too easy to drive an electric, it is a car after all


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭ irishgrover


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    ..........

    Will be interesting to see if tolls outside Dublin are affected?

    2nd paragraph states "Toll charges on the M50 and other major motorways are to be slashed" so hopefully they should be, else I'll be a bit peeved...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    2nd paragraph states "Toll charges on the M50 and other major motorways are to be slashed" so hopefully they should be, else I'll be a bit peeved...

    Sorry I missed that bit. Interesting as they don't own many of them, so the government will have to top up the tolls for electric cars


    God we really are a bunch of free loaders :P


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Ixelles wrote: »
    Doesn't apply to Port Tunnel during peak hours.

    This bit is fair enough. They don't want any cars in the Port Tunnel at peak times. The PT is supposed to be just for trucks to and from the port and the odd bus/coach.

    I agree they shouldn't have watered down the rest.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    I hope this paragraph wasn't an actual quote from the Minister...
    The Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment Denis Naughten has pledged to increase the number of high-powered charging points in the coming years.


    More rapid chargers is more important than half price tolls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Ixelles wrote: »
    Why water it down and make it more complicated? 'Free tolls' was a great headline. 'Discounted tolls by different percentages depending on the time of the day' is just not as catchy. Feels like it was negotiated by a committee.

    This is about sending a signal. Why bother diluting the message?

    My guess is that they went for a half price model rather than a free one because it will be a lot easier to remove/tweak the incentive later on.

    If you make it free its then very hard to tweak the percentages later as you will have people saying "I bought an EV for the free toll and now they've removed the incentive, I feel duped"

    It will be very easy for a new minister to tweak the 50% to 25%, 10% etc over successive budgets (which they will do). If they start from free its harder to tweak it as people will see it as a new charge rather than a reduction in an incentive.

    Its psychological.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,656 ✭✭✭ micks_address


    So I can halve my m50 toll bill by driving electric?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Some additional details on the scheme....
    The scheme, which will begin this summer, will be available to the first 50,000 electric vehicles equipped with an electronic toll tag and will initially run up until the year 2022.


    There will be a 50% toll discount for battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and a 25% toll discount for plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs).


    On the M50, to assist with demand management efforts, a higher incentive rate of 75% discount for BEVs and 50% discount for PHEVs will apply for off-peak travel (i.e. travelling outside peak hours of 7 to 10am and 4 to 7pm).


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ Ixelles


    At least. 75% off at off-peak times.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    So I can halve my m50 toll bill by driving electric?

    You can avail of a 50% discount on the M50 toll during peak time and 75% during off peak.... upto a maximum of €500 worth per year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ Ixelles


    The first 50,000 electric vehicles ?

    How many do we have on the road now? Far fewer than that I'd imagine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Ixelles wrote: »
    The first 50,000 electric vehicles ?

    How many do we have on the road now? Far fewer than that I'd imagine.

    ~3500


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ Ixelles


    Safe for a while so :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭ goz83


    What about those who already have toll tags? I use "easy trip" toll tags which are auto topped up when the balance runs below a preset level.

    Only use M50 toll a few times a year, but many other use these tags.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    goz83 wrote: »
    What about those who already have toll tags? I use "easy trip" toll tags which are auto topped up when the balance runs below a preset level.

    Only use M50 toll a few times a year, but many other use these tags.

    I am going to email them now, hopefully I dont have to change,.....pain in ass if I do

    Emailed, if I hear anything I will let you know


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    goz83 wrote: »
    What about those who already have toll tags? I use "easy trip" toll tags which are auto topped up when the balance runs below a preset level.

    Only use M50 toll a few times a year, but many other use these tags.

    If you already have one you are set I'd say. The toll tags are all interoperable across the tolls around the country across the different providers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    KCross wrote: »
    If you already have one you are set I'd say.

    Hopefully we don't....

    Circa 100 quid a month on tolls so this will help to reduce them :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 465 ✭✭ Ewan Hoosarmi


    I use the video account as I don't use the M50 on a regular basis. Does this mean I now have to get a tag?

    FFS can they not just make it simple, stupid.:p


  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭ pavelpro


    They should add the scheme is valid every 3rd Monday of the odd Month of the Leap year.

    And yes, PHEV will use electricity on M50 (except i3 though)...

    Why not just do it free for the EV and dont come up with complicated rules :(


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Sorry but I don't see why everyone always has to find fault

    How is this not simple? What do you not understand?

    I text a group of non-electric car owners and they understood it immediately.

    Would it make them move to electric was the question I was wondering, without the port tunnel nobody had any interest...

    One guy who was already thinking of buying said maybe but he needs a 64kWh car for his motorway distance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭ thierry14


    Good it's not free

    Clogging up the M50 with Leafs was never a good idea

    You'd get plenty of clowns buying Leafs to get free tolls

    Should be getting people out of cars

    Should have just removed road tax or vat or something

    Roads should be tolled more, not less


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    thierry14 wrote: »
    Good it's not free

    Clogging up the M50 with Leafs was never a good idea

    You'd get plenty of clowns buying Leafs to get free tolls

    Should be getting people out of cars

    Should have just removed road tax or vat or something

    Roads should be tolled more, not less

    I agree in regards to the tolls

    I still think electric cars should be taxed as they are driving on the roads as well....

    Minimum tax as it is now is perfect


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ Ixelles


    I think the number of EVs on the road - or available to buy - is so low that there are no incentives capable of having a real impact on traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,684 ✭✭✭ waynegalway


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I agree in regards to the tolls

    I still think electric cars should be taxed as they are driving on the roads as well....

    Minimum tax as it is now is perfect

    The motor tax is based on emissions, so it should be zero for EVs. Simple.

    I know that EVs use the roads, so maybe there is some way for EV drivers to contribute to that (perhaps the VAT on cars sales could be ringfenced?), but a tax based on motor emissions should be zero for a car with zero emissions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    The motor tax is based on emissions, so it should be zero for EVs. Simple.

    I know that EVs use the roads, so maybe there is some way for EV drivers to contribute to that (perhaps the VAT on cars sales could be ringfenced?), but a tax based on motor emissions should be zero for a car with zero emissions.

    I think we can all agree the current car tax system has a huge amount of issues.....

    The fact a air polluting diesel is only 300 or less quid is one of them


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    The motor tax is based on emissions, so it should be zero for EVs. Simple.

    I know that EVs use the roads, so maybe there is some way for EV drivers to contribute to that (perhaps the VAT on cars sales could be ringfenced?), but a tax based on motor emissions should be zero for a car with zero emissions.

    but but but but.... your emissions are not zero. What about the coal fired power plants!!!! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,684 ✭✭✭ waynegalway


    How about zero road tax (based on zero emissions) for EVs, but something like a tyre tax that all drivers have to pay? That could be ring fenced for road works. Say, €10 levy per tyre. That way, the more yiu use the road, the more you pay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    KCross wrote:
    but but but but.... your emissions are not zero. What about the coal fired power plants!!!!


    Tax every electric device based on its emissions then? Of course the bigger the screen.......


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    How about zero road tax (based on zero emissions) for EVs, but something like a tyre tax that all drivers have to pay? That could be ring fenced for road works. Say, €10 levy per tyre. That way, the more yiu use the road, the more you pay.

    That would just encourage people to use low quality tyres that last "forever" thus negatively impacting safety as long lasting tyres usually have a corresponding negative impact on grip.


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