Dublin - BusConnects

spacetweek

Got a letter last week

Tallaght/Clondalkin to City Centre BusConnect Core Bus Corridor Scheme.

Tallaght/Clondalkin to Dublin City.

Dear Sir / Madam,

In accordance with section 221(2)(a) of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, it is a statutory objective of the Board to ensure that every proposed road development approval application received is determined within a period of 18 weeks, beginning on the last date for making submissions.

Where it appears to the Board that it would not be possible or appropriate to determine a particular application within this period, a notice must be sent to the road authority and persons who made submissions on the proposed road development, in accordance with section 221(3)(a) of the 2000 Act.

The Board hereby serves notice under section 221(3)(a) of the 2000 Act, that it appears to the Board that it would not be possible/appropriate to determine the above application within the period of 18 weeks (i.e. by 6th November 2023) because of the need for further consideration of the case.

The Board intends to determine this application before 9th February 2024. The Board will take all such steps as are open to it to ensure that the matter is determined before that date.

Consonata

A lot more 14 cancellations today, this route reliably cannot cope with inner city traffic and almost always suffers drivers wise.

p_haugh

DLRCOCO have a consultation running for changes to be made to Harbour Road in Dun Laoghaire, in anticipation of the e-spine (and associated locals) launching next year. The existing bus facilities on Crofton Road will still be in place, and will separately be upgraded as part of the Living Streets Scheme.

Shame it's only simple changes, would love to see a fully fledged transport hub developed here at some point.

https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/planning/traffic-busconnects-new-layout-at-harbour-road-d-n/

CatInABox

FECKIN FINALLY!

The first BusConnects Core Corridor project, Liffey Valley to City Centre, has emerged from ABP, approved with only minor conditions.

https://irishcycle.com/2023/12/21/first-busconnects-infrastructure-route-given-green-light-from-planning-board/

As noted in the article, the inspector sought to make it more compliant with DMURS, and ABP choose to ignore that recommendation.

CatInABox

Posted this in the commuting forum, so I'll post it here too.

Haven't looked at the inspectors report at all, just the decision, and it's really interesting, both what is said and unsaid.

On what's unsaid, I've seen small house extensions with more conditions attached. It's gone through almost totally unscathed.

On what's said, one of the points that they've made a condition is the design of the Island Bus stops. They're to take a look at the Cycle Design Manual, which has only just been updated. Interestingly enough, and very much a good thing in my opinion, is that the CDM does not recommend a full set of traffic lights across the cycle track at a bus stop, but just a small cycle light (See Section 4.4.5.2.1). Obviously ABP saw what had gone in at recent Island Bus stops and were as aghast as the rest of us.

However, the big thing that's in there is down where they explain why they didn't take on board the Inspectors recommendation for more DMURS compliance. They basically hand waved at the application and said that it was good enough as is, and didn't need another condition, but more specifically, they said that "the board noted that the proposal brought forward has been advanced through an iterative design process...". While the entire BusConnects consultation process so far has been considered way over the top on here by many, it does seem to have done the trick, with this project raising no major issues at ABP because of it. Bodes well for the rest of the projects, and Metrolink/Dart+.

Pete_Cavan

Hopefully ABP are more forceful in pushing higher standards in other applications. Would be great to see them go as far as omitting turning lanes and reallocating the space to pedestrians/cyclists/buses. The inspector seems to have been more clued in than the Board which is disadisappointing. Presumably this is them setting out their stall for the other corridors and this wording will be copy pasted.

The interesting thing will be if anyone tries to challenge the approval through the courts. Maybe Liffey Valley to City Centre doesn't ruffle enough local feathers for that, there might be a concerned "environmental NGO" but they might be waiting for a bigger fish.

Pete_Cavan

Also interesting that the Clongriffin to City Centre Core Bus Corridor Scheme the first submitted for approval in April 2022 but LV to CC submitted in July 22 is the first approved.

I would have thought that Clongriffin to CC would have been a straightforward approval as it is essentially an upgrade to the existing Malahide Road between Fairview and Northern Cross which is a wide road and mostly already has bus lanes in both directions. The more contentious parts at either end are being done as standalone projects. It is probably the corridor that is easiest to deliver so I was hoping it would be first out of ABP and they could push on with it as a pilot and take learnings from that for more diffcult corridors.

CatInABox

Also yesterday, a quick update on where they are with Camera Enforcement:

https://twitter.com/samtranum/status/1737924789358956801

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525026#Comment_121525026

For those who don’t have a twitter account, would you mind summarising it? Thanks

Stark

TL;DR there's a working group looking at it.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525510#Comment_121525510

Yes, essentially the update is that there's no real progress on it.

JPup

That is not a good summary of the update in my opinion.

The main points were:

1. The working group has submitted a report to the Dept of Transport.
2. It appears to recommend the camera-based enforcement.
3. The Dept of Transport will be working next year to introduce a national strategy for camera usage.

So nothing imminent, but it certainly seems more likely than not that at some point in the next couple of years, we will see camera enforcement introduced for lights and bus lanes.

cgcsb

Great, another report and recommendation, file it with the others.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121526783#Comment_121526783

Is the mount brown bus gate still timed in a way so as to be ineffective? That bus gate is kinda what this corridor is all about, it's the single biggest pinch point.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121526908#Comment_121526908

Why would it be ineffective?

It is timed to facilitate buses outbound between 16:00 and 20:00 and inbound between 06:00 and 10:00 which is when congestion is causing delays?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121526585#Comment_121526585

Oh, that sounds much better, I would say quite positive.

I know we all just want it to happen overnight, but that simply isn’t how government works. Having watched how it works for the past 20 years this does seem like good progress.

Keep in mind the government including DoT specifically changed the law, the Road Traffic Act to allow for this. They wouldn’t do that if they weren’t serious about it.

It makes sense that a working group was then set up to make recommendations on what it would look like, what the process to operate it will be etc.

Assuming the DoT agree, then the next step would be likely to start putting the process in place, issue tenders for a contract to install and operate the cameras, call center, etc.

Keep in mind that they need to make sure it is all done properly as I’m certain someone will challenge it in court, as speed cameras, etc. have.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524168#Comment_121524168

Given the ABP approval and that I believe the intention is to let these corridors on a design and build basis, how far off of works commencing might we be for this first approved corridor?

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528464#Comment_121528464

I doubt you'll see much in 2024, perhaps some preparation in late 24. 2025 is set to be the year of major construction in Dublin on bus connects, DART+ and Metrolink.

But there is a rather large caveat i.e. can the Irish construction industry possibly bear the strain of delivering the shear volume of required equipment, workers, and crucially, accommodation to actually deliver all this ontop of an accelerated home building programme. That in its self is a conundrum, we have full employment, we need to import tens of thousands of construction workers for at least a decade, where will they live?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528464#Comment_121528464

Why do you think they'll be built under D&B contracts? There is very little flexibility in design available for the corridors, most aspects are set through legislation or design manuals, or TII will set standards for things like bus stops based bus sizes, etc. They likely have strict specifications for many materials/items to be used which will be standard across the network and can't vary from corridor to corridor. I really don't see D&B being suitable here.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121530783#Comment_121530783

Tens of thousands is a bit OTT, workers will obviously be redeployed from other projects as they finish up. The National Children's Hospital for example ties up a huge amount of resources right now but the majority of that will become available again in 12 months.

The state is likely going to have to dig deeper to secure as much of the limited resources available as possible, this applies to all types of projects. There will likely be a drop off in large scale private projects for a couple of years if resources aren't available.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531409#Comment_121531409

That was my understanding.

The corridors are only at prelim design now, if not design and build we'll need to go through detailed design (not sure if that's part of the current consultant's briefs, so that may involve a new round of consultant procurement) then tender of contractors so there wouldn't be a hope of any construction starting for at least 24 - 36 months I would wager.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121530783#Comment_121530783

I'm aware (could be rumours) of some consultation with the likes of TM providers regarding their ability to meet the likely upcoming demand.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121530783#Comment_121530783

We would do well to entice a bunch of Irish back from the likes of London. I know a lot of lads who studied engineering and the likes, finishing college in 2011/12 then immediately heading off to London for work.

And of course, lots of foreigners! Plenty of labour available from Romania, Moldova, Ukraine and the Balkans. Let them in... build build build!

Bsharp

NTA have two tenders coming out in early in the New Year, both have Prior Information notices on the etenders website.

1) client delivery partner

2) D&B multiparty framework. They're hoping to get 6 D&B contractors. Using an NEC contract to try and make it more attractive for contracting firms by sharing more of the risk.

Their objective is to start building by 2025 but the industry is too jaded by the last 15 years to believe that can be achieved. There isn't a new engineer to be found on the island so multinationals have been using teams further afield to support work. It gets much harder at D&B stage when you need resources onsite. For overseas staff, visas can be a nightmare to sort out and there's plenty of other attractive options for mobile construction staff. Good chance BusConnects will become spread out over a longer period.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121532231#Comment_121532231

I'd strongly advise anyone against getting an engineering degree, you'll graduate after 4 hard years and be offered a starting salary of a paltry €28,000, just enough to live in a homeless shelter then you can pay engineers ireland €600 a year for 'membership'. Go to a tech profession instead or architecture

specialbyte

Core Bus Corridor 1 Clongriffin along the Malahide Road from Clarehall to Marino was approved by ABP on 8th January 2023. Case file is here: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/313182

Very similar conditions as the approval for CBC7 Liffey Valley a few weeks back. There were no major alternations to the design in the approval process.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603048#Comment_121603048

Yes, it's essentially copy pasted, very little changes. Bodes very, very well for the rest. Hopefully this means that they can start powering through the rest now.

cgcsb

The construction packages are to be organised in such a way that 2 corridors close to eachother wont be at construction at the same time. So it'll be interesting to see what 2 will be granted next

specialbyte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603464#Comment_121603464

It's a little more complicated than that. While some neighbouring corridors won't be built at the same time there are some corridors, including this one that can actually be built concurrently with any of the other corridors. Source Inspector's Report (pg 216): https://www.pleanala.ie/anbordpleanala/media/abp/cases/reports/313/r313182.pdf?r=002515664066

spacetweek

When will the next set of planning applications be submitted?