Dublin - BusConnects

p_haugh

Not to mention, the bicycle lights at the new junction (the old roundabout) is wild. 4 full height poles, with 2 having bike lights at head height, with the other 2 having a cyclist beg button each. Surely these could be placed on the one pole? Or at least have the beg buttons on one of the smaller poles!

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243369#Comment_120243369

It might come across as "cyclists complaining about provision for visually impaired pedestrians" and IrishCycle should probably be careful to state that the needs of visually impaired people are top priority, but as we're all agreed here, the needs of visually impaired people aren't well met by this design and the needs of cyclists are also degraded by this design. So it's a lose-lose outcome. I don't really see the "win" for visually impaired people here. IrishCycle only reflected on the "lose" of one group, but that's kinda the remit of the "brand", so I see why they did that.

loyatemu

I don't know what best practise for visually impaired people is here so I'm reluctant to criticise it. The fact they don't do this sort of thing in other countries is not necessarily a winning argument - I've heard negative reports of how (e.g.) the Netherlands caters for disabilities.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243369#Comment_120243369

As I said, I've no issue at all with provision being made for the visually impaired, what I have an issue with is a provision being made that won't work, and further more makes it far more difficult to roll this in other places. These crossing points are going to have a very low to zero benefit for the visually impaired, despite their good intentions, but it's going to have a very negative impact on the roll out of further island bus stops.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244219#Comment_120244219

Well, presumably if there's a need to signalise intersections between visually impaired people and cyclists then......the shared space a few metres after that signalisation is a bad design.

Also, if there's a need for traffic lights then....the zebra crossing which gives a totally different and conflicting instruction/priority is a bad design.

So even without being an expert, you can be reasonably confident that whatever is best practice for visually impaired people, the design as-built here isn't it. Whatever "wins" visually impaired people will get are immediately undone by adjacent infrastructure. It's a complete mess.

It's not a very coherent or easily legible environment for any end-user, and visually impaired people will suffer for that.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244168#Comment_120244168

I am not a visually-impaired pedestrian so I don't feel fit enough to comment authoritatively on this. However, to me it looks that if their needs are not met by the design, it would only be as a result of a cyclist ignoring a red light and ploughing through a visually-impaired pedestrian.

Whenever there is change, somebody's needs are degraded by the design. Normally it is is car users whose needs are degraded. Compromise is essential and a small inconvenience for cyclists in order to meet the needs of visually-impaired pedestrians isn't too much to ask.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244565#Comment_120244565

I'm not sure if I've written it poorly, but I'll reiterate that there's a shared space beyond a zebra crossing with traffic lights.

If a cyclist continues on a green light they can collide with any person who believes (for good reason!) that they have priority. In the shared space, cyclists can unknowingly travel in close proximity to a visually impaired person and cause them problems.

This has nothing to do with "cyclists inconvenience" it's a design with poor coherence and legibility.

Again, I'm not sure if I've written it poorly or if you're wilfully ignoring the serious problems with the design.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244748#Comment_120244748

In shared spaces in other countries, cyclists slow down and/or dismount out of respect for other users. Again a small inconvenience for the greater good. Unfortunately in Ireland, even on footpaths, cyclists seem to think that pedestrians need to get out of the way.

Again, as I say, there appears to be nothing wrong with the design from the visually impaired pedestrian's perspective.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247691#Comment_120247691

Nice jab at anyone who uses a bicycle to get around but you've obviously not walked around cities such as Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Brussels where you'd better make sure your foot doesn't even touch part of a cycle path/lane...

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247691#Comment_120247691

Cyclists dismount out of respect? Fairly ableist mindset tbh. Lots of cyclists can't dismount.

You've chosen to repeatedly ignore significant issues with the design (both for visually impaired people, and for other people). I hope I'm wrong but it really looks like your sole focus is on on the perceived shortcomings of cyclists. Fair enough, but with that in mind, I think you'll lose a lot of sway with any of the valid points you're making about infrastructure to be honest.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247778#Comment_120247778

I don't know Copenhagen at all, but I have walked extensively around Amsterdam and Brussels, and you are correct in that regard, that just like stepping on a road, stepping on a cycle path or lane is perilous. However, and this is where Ireland is completely different, footpaths reserved for pedestrians were used by pedestrians or dismounted cyclists, and similarly in shared spaces, cyclists have a different approach.

Edit: Anyway we are moving away from BusConnects, so I will leave this issue there.

Bsharp

We need to make a root and branch change in legislation and to our design codes if Liffey Valley type schemes are to be avoided. This is the end product of over regulation through design. Litigious society has a lot to answer for.

A lot of comments around the design - traffic signal poles/visual impairment requirements by IrishCycle and others in this thread make it clear folk have never had to implement Irish design guidance through to construction. Its horrendous. Constantly having to make decisions against one's better judgement.

xper

In (minor) Bus Connects Infrastructure news ...

I came across a couple of new bus stops under construction on southern orbital routes this week: one west-bound on the campus ring road in UCD and another west-bound on Nutgrove Avenue at Nutgrove shopping centre, opposite the existing eastbound stop 1310.

p_haugh

Yep they've been going around south Dublin getting the stops sorted for the southern orbitals for the past few months now. They're currently constructing stops for the 74 along Wickham way in dundrum as well, and the L25/74 terminus is under construction as well - I wouldn't be surprised if that's near completion now.

dublinman1990

Would there be any outstanding work due for installing new bus stops for the Western Orbitals in the near future?

If the Western Orbitals are officially rolling out ahead of the Southern Orbitals; I wouldn't be surprised to know that people who be live or work along the S routes would be asking a lot of questions and become very confused as to why this phase is getting delayed ahead of another one due to other reasons.

They wouldn't be happy to know that one of the W routes would be split up into 2 routes for a year while none of the S routes will have that problem at all when they get rolled out later in the year.

CatInABox

Liffey Valley interchange seems to be up and running. Looks great.

https://twitter.com/lauren_tuite/status/1627201724560678913?s=20

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260452#Comment_120260452

Looks amazing. Hard to believe it's in Dublin!!

cgcsb

It really does look well. I do hope it's maintained.

p_haugh

Proper driver facilities too, shocker!!!

https://twitter.com/lauren_tuite/status/1627271819634810882?t=O35_jpSWMezM_d12KIJ0Yg&s=19

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260918#Comment_120260918

Agreed!

Given it is on the shopping centre property, I would imagine that they would be responsible for the maintenance of the facility (outside of the bus stops and real-time signs)?

dublinman1990

Oh wow. The design of that interchange is beautiful. I'm very impressed with how well lit it is at night. Let's hope that it is well maintained from now on into the future.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262559#Comment_120262559

All it's missing are the actual bus routes that are meant to serve it from the failed roll-out of BC.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260452#Comment_120260452

Can someone post the photos in that Tweet?

EDIT: Never mind, I see it's been posted in the other Bus Connects thread.

p_haugh

Meanwhile in dundrum, the newly built layby for the L25 and 74....

https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1627742449647976453?t=aS0yEQ2FTT-LxGIPAcziew&s=19

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268240#Comment_120268240

I don't mean to be a negative nelly, but surely those bumpy parts are a cycling hazard? I wouldn't like to be going over them on a wet day anyway.

Stark

Cycle lane generally doesn't look great imo. Both footpath and cycle track very narrow and the cycle track is the same level as the footpath. I imagine once it's open it'll be a game of weaving between pedestrians walking on the cycle track (until you get to the 4 traffic lights for crossing over the track).

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268392#Comment_120268392

It really doesn’t look good. As Stark says, it and the bus stop island are too narrow.

People will just walk/stand in that cycle lane while going or waiting for a bus.

p_haugh

Yes its not an ideal set-up, the space there is quite tight and they can't simply just eat into the car park.

jlang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270590#Comment_120270590

But the next question is why wouldn't they explore eating into the car park. It's not like the current park and ride use is sacrosanct. The old Dundrum Shopping Centre must only waiting on planning and funding and builders and developers schedules etc to be replaced with high rise apartments. Playing nice with the transport integrations might ease the process and/or allow them to reduce the parking requirements.

Another couple of lanes worth shaved off by the bypass and they could nearly do a fancy bus terminal like in Liffey Valley and integrate it nicely into the eventual new development - with proper cycle infrastructure too.

(All unless that's the plan and this is only a quick "temporary" bus park)

bk

I was literally about to write the same as you jlang, we really need to stop prioritising motoring infrastrucuture over walking/cycling/public transport infrastructure. In particular car parking, which is the least efficient use of space possible.