Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Fann Linn

Ace2007 wrote: »

your nearly as bad as the guys on twitter, no one was found innocent today - so why do you keep throwing it around.

'Innocent until proven guilty', was a tenet of law I thought.

Potatoeman

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Thats a ridiculous assertion.


Personally I think its ridiculous that the CPS brought this case. I think it has done untold damage to rape victims where its a clear cut case.

I've followed the case closely and I cannot understand how they thought they'd get a verdict of guilty and I d suggest the speed with which the 4 verdicts (or 3? ) were arrived at would indicate the jurors saw it similarly.

The couldn’t risk not having a case as it would look like they were protecting the accused because of their status.

AllForIt

I really don't know the motivations of the woman involved were, but what I'm certain of is that she felt she would win given the nonsense thats spoken by the likes of that twitter wan L.O'Neil. What she has done is convince women that when men get involved in these kinds of debauched gang bangs that it's as good as rape because she has broadened the scope of what rape is in the minds of some. Sorry but youz ain't getting away with that as has been shown today.

C__MC

C__MC wrote: »

I heard rumors in social media that she had cried rape before to no avail-

ok there bananarama.... you hear a rumour yea, I heard a rumour the earth was flat and look what happened!!!

suicide_circus

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Thats a ridiculous assertion.


Personally I think its ridiculous that the CPS brought this case. I think it has done untold damage to rape victims where its a clear cut case.

I've followed the case closely and I cannot understand how they thought they'd get a verdict of guilty and I d suggest the speed with which the 4 verdicts (or 3? ) were arrived at would indicate the jurors saw it similarly.

100% How in the name of god the crown prosecution service thought they had enough evidence to convict all 4 of them beyond a reasonable doubt boggles the mind. It honestly looks like they were looking for a lucky coin toss. In terms of the repercussions of this case to rape victims, that fault can be laid squarely at the door of the CPS and the people advising the complainant.

SEPT 23 1989

thecretinhop wrote: »

Unreal bias from the rte you would think they were guilty. God knows what coverage would be like if they were found guilty..

Strange isn't it

From the moment the verdict was announced that's the way they ran with it

Innocent but......

davidmarsh

Why do so many women hate men?

Bunny Colvin

I just had a gander at twitter there. It's astonishing how angry some people are. Honestly, it's a mess.

Some women are posting their experiences of being raped. What has that got to do with the trial?

A lot are posting a transcript of the girl's Whatsapp messages - sure in what country would that be held up as proof of anything? The reality is it proves absolutely nothing.

Others are saying that they're ashamed of being Irish and one white knight snowflake even said he's ashamed for humanity.

They need to calm down and respect the verdict. This isn't a miscarriage of justice. Go and have your protest tomorrow and shout as loud as you can. Most of us don't care.

c.p.w.g.w

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's sort of to show support to the woman and maybe to get laws changed in the future. Lots of people have issues with the jury having more men and the amount of time she was examined.
Another issue that would be favored by some would Louise O'Neill's style basically the man has to prove he's innocent.(I think)

Guilty until proven innocent...Yeah because that's fair...Do any countries take that approach...

BrianBoru00

Potatoeman wrote: »

The couldn’t risk not having a case as it would look like they were protecting the accused because of their status.

If thats the basis on which they decided to take the case or in fact it had anything to with decision to go to trial then I rest my case completely.

Do you think they are guilty - yes or no.
If its yes then can we prove it or is it possible many of the arguments to be made can be easily refuted or disputed?
If its the later then its probably the correct decision not to proceed

Ace2007

Fann Linn wrote: »

'Innocent until proven guilty', was a tenet of law I thought.

Jury found them not guilty - go look at what it means.

https://businessandlegal.ie/not-guilty-does-not-mean-innocent-in-criminal-law

The Talking Bread

I haven't had much exposure to this Louise O'Neill woman but just looking at her twitter page today, christ she is a dose. She is that immersed in her shaded popularity desperation that she is completely ignorant as to how a trial by jury works.

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Strange isn't it

From the moment the verdict was announced that's the way they ran with it

Innocent but......

think that's bad, you wanna hear matt cooper today, sure he was only on 5 minutes before he's playing the old, "do guys really talk like this? like trump" ****e to an all woman panel...yeah balanced alright matt, the house wifes favourite...

ibkeane

I was at the checkout in Dunnes late this afternoon being "served" and ignored by some check out scrubber as she multi tasked by having a conversation with her colleagues .

As I was gathering up my goods one of her more informed friends announced " I juss herd de newis , They ****ing gor awy wir it "

So much for the presumption of innocence even after being falsely accused and with due process found not guilty .

Unfortunatly these guys lives are ruined and the complainant will remain anonymus and walk free !

c.p.w.g.w

suicide_circus wrote: »

100% How in the name of god the crown prosecution service thought they had enough evidence to convict all 4 of them beyond a reasonable doubt boggles the mind. It honestly looks like they were looking for a lucky coin toss. In terms of the repercussions of this case to rape victims, that fault can be laid squarely at the door of the CPS and the people advising the complainant.

This is the same crowd who ruined chef Evans life...Over turned on appeal...And a lot of legal professionals were astonished that he'd been convicted in the first place

suicide_circus

FloatingVoter wrote: »

She was not on trial. They were. She was not trying them. The UK was. A court and the laws enforced therein are not reality TV. Rape was not proven.
By there own admissions the little twerps agreed she was at the party and they got intimate. Where does the fiction involved in a false allegation come in.

Little twerps?

mariaalice

If their careers are affected it.will be becaused of what they said about her the next day not because they were accused of a rape they were acquitted for. That is an imporant point.

Peatys

This thread harks back to the aul dances.. Lads this side of the room and the girls that side.

No one bar the girl and the lads know for sure what happened. Get over it.

The Talking Bread

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I just had a gander at twitter there. It's astonishing how angry some people are. Honestly, it's a mess.

Some women are posting their experiences of being raped. What has that got to do with the trial?

A lot are posting a transcript of the girl's Whatsapp messages - sure in what country would that be held up as proof of anything? The reality is it proves absolutely nothing.

Others are saying that they're ashamed of being Irish and one white knight snowflake even said he's ashamed for humanity.

They need to calm down and respect the verdict. This isn't a miscarriage of justice. Go and have your protest tomorrow and shout as loud as you can. Most of us don't care.

It is a popularity contest.

Everyone wants to reach the highest peak of moral outrage. Hence the bar is raised in this respect.

Appledreams15

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I just had a gander at twitter there. It's astonishing how angry some people are. Honestly, it's a mess.

Some women are posting their experiences of being raped. What has that got to do with the trial?

A lot are posting a transcript of the girl's Whatsapp messages - sure in what country would that be held up as proof of anything? The reality is it proves absolutely nothing.

Others are saying that they're ashamed of being Irish and one white knight snowflake even said he's ashamed for humanity.

They need to calm down and respect the verdict. This isn't a miscarriage of justice. Go and have your protest tomorrow and shout as loud as you can. Most of us don't care.

Where do you think this anger arises from?

Every woman being f@#*ing raped and sexually assaulted in Ireland!

What have other womens experences got to do with it? Are you for real? Everything. Every woman can see that as it stands right now she has no hope of convicting a rapist.

As I said, are we any different than any arab countries? No justice for rapists, and women shamed in their community.

Men and women are both saying that Ireland is a f@#king joke on twitter.

Nerdlingr

Just wondering about what all these "I still believe" her mob are basing their opinion on? Because it's definitely not on anything factual.

The Talking Bread

ibkeane wrote: »

I was at the checkout in Dunnes late this afternoon being "served" and ignored by some check out scrubber as she multi tasked by having a conversation with her colleagues .

As I was gathering up my goods one of her more informed friends announced " I juss herd de newis , They ****ing gor awy wir it "

So much for the presumption of innocence even after being falsely accused and with due process found not guilty .
!

My pity for you wained as soon as you called the woman a "check out scrubber"

And you claiming moral superiority!

Wheeliebin30

We see this guilty without evidence everyday.

The left have brought it into politics in a big way.

Fake news.

givyjoe

PHG wrote: »

Wow, what a generalisation there. Someone with a penis can't be logical? People can be falsely accused. As with any crime, the accuser is wrong until they can prove the guilt of the defendant.

Neither you or I were there that night. There is no winner here but gender hating does not help anyone. If I criticised a female for their the way they came to a decision just because thay have a vagina I would be criticised and rightly so. Discriminating based on someone's gender is low!

That was literally the opposite of what the poster was saying. The oul sarcasm meter on the Fritz there?!

Potatoeman

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

If thats the basis on which they decided to take the case or in fact it had anything to with decision to go to trial then I rest my case completely.

Do you think they are guilty - yes or no.
If its yes then can we prove it or is it possible many of the arguments to be made can be easily refuted or disputed?
If its the later then its probably the correct decision not to proceed

The friend went to the police with the story she was told that left out anything that made the woman in question look bad. The fact the only witness said it looked consensual, killed the case. If something happen after that maybe but it doesn’t look good.

Sidebaro

Deleted User wrote:

All I hear on Prime Tome now is how this effects Women and Women this WTF ? little about the lives of the 3 men ruined over this.

I assume it's out of a manner of respect to rape victims who may be put off reporting the crime if they see a big deal being made about the lives of the 3 men being ruined, especially given that it wasn't proven that she lied about it, just that there wasn't enough to be able to say they were guilty. It's not an ideal situation but I think it's the best way to deal with it really. Maybe I'm wrong?

policy75

C__MC wrote: »

It was a unanimous call in the space of a few hours. It never happened

What happened happened but what happened clearly was consensual. Otherwise there is no way a 9 week trial would be terminated with such a quick decision. And in the meantime the future of these guys is destroyed. Did they learn a life lesson or what

Sweetemotion

pitifulgod wrote: »

The absence of enough evidence does not mean she falsely she accused them. Rapes has incredibly low conviction rates. Do you believe that the majority of those who accuse people of rape are doing so falsely?

No they don't in 2016 of the 404 cases brought before the courts 69% resulted in convictions.

JP Liz V1

suicide_circus wrote: »

Regarding these guy's destroyed careers and reputations it's basically tough ****. They have no comeback. No sponsor will ever touch them. It's a man's world, eh?

Big Brother

Mrsmum

To my mind both sides could be right in their beliefs. So maybe it was all fine until the other lady opened the door. The young girl may have been in a situation she didn't know how to get herself out of (a lot of women will understand that situation) but up to then was acting in agreement with it so happy days for the lads. Then when the other lady looked in, it brought the girl to her senses and she wanted it to stop. The other lady was gone then so how can she say what happened after that. Perhaps at that stage the lads were, in their minds, pass the point of no return so didn't even see or hear her anymore. They will lost in their fantasy - group sex, spit roasting etc. Is that scenario not possible ? If that was the case I think she was raped but would imagine a lot of people, especially men would see that extra bit as them just finishing up the job ??????? I think a lot of men think that rape has to be rape from the start.