So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

namloc1980

Skedaddle wrote: »

Copenhagen : 171 to 195 days of rain 640mm
Amsterdam : 117 days of rain 910mm
Dublin 191 days of rain 1080mm
Galway 295 days,
Cork : 265 days 1080mm

Cork is a LOT wetter and much of that is made up by drizzly days.

A lot of Europe gets rain, but it's more like it rains and it stops. A lot of parts of Ireland get almost constant light rain / drizzle for extended periods. That's the stuff that puts people off cycling.

It would actually point towards a need for very much better use of comfortable public transport that can deal with those kinds of conditions. A lot of the vehicles used in Ireland aren't air conditioned and end up being damp and horrible when full of wet commuters.

People afraid of drizzle! :pac: Cork isn't a LOT wetter. Those numbers of rain days are a bit of a red herring to be honest. A 2 minute shower in a 24 hour period counts as a rain day. As does 24 hours straight torrential rain.

Spanish Eyes

Oh the smell in Patrick Street is wicked.

I know the pain seems bad, but the gain will be worth it in a month or two.

Skedaddle

namloc1980 wrote: »

People afraid of drizzle! :pac: Cork isn't a LOT wetter. Those numbers of rain days are a bit of a red herring to be honest. A 2 minute shower in a 24 hour period counts as a rain day. As does 24 hours straight torrential rain.

I've lived in both and in the Netherlands and Cork is definitely wetter and more unpredictability so - cycling here you genuinely do tend to get soaked a lot more than half the time. Drizzle tends to still result in getting extremely wet. I've arrived to places with my legs absolutely soaked on drizzly days. I've also had bags with paperwork and electronic equipment soaked through even thought they're theoretically rainproof.

Cork people, in my opinion, have imaginary better weather. It's a very, very wet city.

It also isn't usually a two minute shower here. That's more the case somewhere like Copenhagen. There are periods of time here with sustained light rain that can go on for the whole day or even several days.

We've had serious issues getting dry enough weather to paint exterior walls for example. That's usually not an issue in most places.

Skedaddle

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Oh the smell in Patrick Street is wicked.

I know the pain seems bad, but the gain will be worth it in a month or two.

Smell of ?

macraignil

namloc1980 wrote: »

How could it take longer?? 25 minute drive as you said to Little Island, 10 minute train and 20 minute walk to work as you said. Forget the 205. Add in 10 minute wait for the train and you're still home 25 minutes quicker than driving and no traffic stress. Use a Cork bike and you'd be home 35 minutes earlier. That to me would be infinitely better than sitting in a car in traffic. But different strokes and all that I suppose.

25minute drive plus 10minute train plus 20minute walk plus 10minutes to wait for the train adds up to 65minutes which is longer than the 40minutes it normally took to do the journey before the recent traffic management changes and this would be in both directions when it still takes about 40minutes to do our commute in the morning. 40 + 90 = 130 and 65+ 65 = 130 which in fact means the commute you suggest would be exactly the same as the drive in the current gridlock in the evening. The figures I was thinking of were including a bit more time for delays in getting the train but either way closing Patrick street now adds almost an extra hour to the commute weather we stick with the car or drive to Little island for the train.

I must add that I've mentioned the suggestion you offered to the girlfriend and she is unwilling to walk the 20minutes in the rain on work days so while I appreciate you trying to help your alternative is not going to be applied. Comparing Cork to Copenhagen is not a fair comparison and I see no justification for your dismissal of the rainfall figures that clearly show Cork gets more rain than the other cities mentioned. If you are walking 40minutes in Cork city every weekday you will get caught in heavy rain regularly.

j8wk2feszrnpao

namloc1980 wrote: »

Copenhagen has similar rainfall to Cork and has significant cycling and public transport usage so that argument doesn't really stand up and is really just an excuse.

No it doesn't. Why do people consistency lie about this.

I had this debate with someone before about Cork rainfall v's Amsterdam (a much flatter city) and London (which doesn't get near as much rainfall), and it still gets used as a red herring for people who has issue with cars, and want greater priority for cycling as part of their agenda.

The new system is worth a trail. Hopefully the management of traffic (changing of lights, improved public transport, traffic corp assisting by directing and moving on traffic, etc...) will make a difference. It was always going to cause hassle at the start, but that will continue if the council doesn't actually get the finger out.

fin12

Cork city is a f*ckin nightmare driving through. I feel so sorry for anyone who has to travel from the city to Mahon in the evenings. I’d crack up if I had to do that every evening.

I was on Patrick’s Street Wednesday and as a pedestrian, why would you even give a f*ck if there are cars driving down there or not, it doesn’t effect you shopping.

All they have done is moved the traffic off one street and placing it on others.

Skedaddle

I think on the rainfall issue there's also an element of denial of reality too.

You have to plan the city for the weather it actually has, not the weather it imagines it has.

Dublin's drier but it's still pretty wet and some bright spark installed what look like Mediterranean sun shades instead of rain shelters at all the Luas stops.

It would imply that Cork urgently needs more rainproof public transportation. That means very good shelters, frequent stops, and vehicles that have good air-conditioning to prevent them ending up like gross, damp messes on rainy days. I detest the whole damp bus thing with condensation dripping down the insides of the windows because the ventilation isn't designed for the climate.

It's really about time we had proper systems in place for the weather we have.

There's nothing wrong with having a lot of rain but please at least admit that we have it.

Even for cycling things like ensuring the drains are cleared and there aren't giant puddles would be very, very helpful.

Perhaps having canopies over the bike racks too to avoid wet saddles ?

If you make the infrastructure impractical, people won't use it and will stay in their cars.

If you want Cork to be less car dependent, start making alternatives much more attractive. The notion that you can just throw on a few auld busses on an erratic timetable and gave people standing in driving rain at a pole on some god forsaken suburban street isn't really good enough.

Owen

namloc1980 wrote: »

Copenhagen has similar rainfall to Cork and has significant cycling and public transport usage so that argument doesn't really stand up and is really just an excuse.

Copenhagen does not get the same rainfall as us, and it certainly doesn't have anything like the gradients here. Cycling is great if you're going on the same level, but cycling as a commuting option anywhere that involves multiple hills in Cork, in the rain, is a nightmare.

Speaking of rain - this new traffic model has only been tested on relatively dry days so far. Can't wait for the chaos a bit of rain brings!

And today, their resourcing seemed to fall apart. Garda bike wasn't present at the top of Patrick Street, instead it was a council parking warden bike. The system is already unravelling.

Tom44

Owen wrote: »

Copenhagen does not get the same rainfall as us, and it certainly doesn't have anything like the gradients here. Cycling is great if you're going on the same level, but cycling as a commuting option anywhere that involves multiple hills in Cork, in the rain, is a nightmare.

Speaking of rain - this new traffic model has only been tested on relatively dry days so far. Can't wait for the chaos a bit of rain brings!

And today, their resourcing seemed to fall apart. Garda bike wasn't present at the top of Patrick Street, instead it was a council parking warden bike. The system is already unravelling.

Fcuk all this global warming my country is wetter than you're bull.

I just want to know can I get to the coal quay from Washington street without a free (haven't eaten for 10 hours due to traffic) pizza (thanks Benny) and the Gate been a drive in cinema ?

Give me a free pizza at the tunnel any day.

namloc1980

macraignil wrote: »

25minute drive plus 10minute train plus 20minute walk plus 10minutes to wait for the train adds up to 65minutes which is longer than the 40minutes it normally took to do the journey before the recent traffic management changes and this would be in both directions when it still takes about 40minutes to do our commute in the morning. 40 + 90 = 130 and 65+ 65 = 130 which in fact means the commute you suggest would be exactly the same as the drive in the current gridlock in the evening. The figures I was thinking of were including a bit more time for delays in getting the train but either way closing Patrick street now adds almost an extra hour to the commute weather we stick with the car or drive to Little island for the train.

I must add that I've mentioned the suggestion you offered to the girlfriend and she is unwilling to walk the 20minutes in the rain on work days so while I appreciate you trying to help your alternative is not going to be applied. Comparing Cork to Copenhagen is not a fair comparison and I see no justification for your dismissal of the rainfall figures that clearly show Cork gets more rain than the other cities mentioned. If you are walking 40minutes in Cork city every weekday you will get caught in heavy rain regularly.

You said it would be longer - seems the same or shorter if you bike it. 25 + 10 + 10 + 5 = 50 X 2 = 100 versus 130 in the car. That's two and a half hours a week. Save half an hour every day versus the car, not to mention the hassle of traffic and save a few bob as well with free parking and tax saver but looks like the car commute and traffic is more attractive. The rain thing is a red herring and an excuse and I say that as someone who walks and bikes around the place.

macraignil

namloc1980 wrote: »

You said it would be longer - seems the same or shorter if you bike it. 25 + 10 + 10 + 5 = 50 X 2 = 100 versus 130 in the car. That's two and a half hours a week. Save half an hour every day versus the car, not to mention the hassle of traffic and save a few bob as well with free parking and tax saver but looks like the car commute and traffic is more attractive. The rain thing is a red herring and an excuse and I say that as someone who walks and bikes around the place.

I find bicycle seats very uncomfortable and find my hands are jittery after cycling which would be no good for handling expensive laboratory equipment at my job. I'd find cycling in traffic far more unpleasant than driving having been knocked off my bike previously when commuting in England by a careless driver.

I don't know why you keep calling rain a red herring. Trying to work or traveling when soaked from heavy rain is unpleasant and I would prefer to avoid this. As well as my own situation I make the journey to work and back with someone else who is not willing to consider traveling regularly through the city in the rain on foot or by bicycle. It's great you enjoy walking and cycling but these options are completely impractical for commuting in my situation. I suppose you could say different folks different strokes unless you're the city council who seem to be saying go with public transport, bicycle or get stuck in gridlock.

whisky_galore

I would love to cycle to work only (a) I can't cycle the tunnel and would have to go the long way round taking forever, (b) I'd end up soaked with rain or sweat and workplace like most workplaces doesn't have showers or places to dry your stuff out.
Public transport is out as there's no direct links, so car or nothing.

the beer revolu

macraignil wrote: »

The only park and ride I know of in Cork is on the south side of the city and I live to the north in between Rathcormac and Castlelyons or in the sticks as you put it. It would take longer to drive to the park and ride and come back north again to get to work in the city centre. I do not drive to my desk but to a multistory parking facility a few minutes walk from work. There is no public transport where I live and no park and ride option that would improve my situation.

I'm really not buying the idea that the traffic this week is putting an hour on to your commute home. Sorry, but I just don't believe it.

Why not find somewhere to park on the North Side of the city centre and walk to work?

TheChizler

Got the bus into town yesterday, did a load of shopping on Patrick St. It was much more pleasant being able to cross the road whenever you wanted to get to another shop rather having to wait for a break in traffic and dodge it, or walk to and wait for a pedestrian light. The two sides of the street felt much closer together. Got the bus home which came through Patrick St at rush hour and it was on time, which was the first time for me as far as I can remember. A great experience so far.

the beer revolu

I live in the North Side city centre. My parents live a Southern suburb so I pretty often cross town in the car. I can't remember the last time I drove the length of St. Patrick's Street. I really didn't think this would affect that many people. I can't think why it would be a route for so many people.

hufpc8w3adnk65

the beer revolu wrote: »

I live in the North Side city centre. My parents live a Southern suburb so I pretty often cross town in the car. I can't remember the last time I drove the length of St. Patrick's Street. I really didn't think this would affect that many people. I can't think why it would be a route for so many people.

I only use Pat street for work reasons other wise there’s much better ways around town.lots of traffic tho is people shopping. Any time of the day if you drive down Patrick’s street you’ll see people with their cars abandoned in loading bays, bus stops, on double yellows, any where!!

fin12

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm really not buying the idea that the traffic this week is putting an hour on to your commute home. Sorry, but I just don't believe it.

Why not find somewhere to park on the North Side of the city centre and walk to work?

Parking for free on the north side is really limited. I know one or two places where you can park for free but you have to get there early.

Parking in Blackpool isn’t much of an option as they are clamping cars in the retail park after three hours and I don’t know if you would get away with parking your car in Duness all day.

fin12

the beer revolu wrote: »

I live in the North Side city centre. My parents live a Southern suburb so I pretty often cross town in the car. I can't remember the last time I drove the length of St. Patrick's Street. I really didn't think this would affect that many people. I can't think why it would be a route for so many people.

It’s going to effect the quays which are bad enough all ready that’s what’s going to happen.

I never used Patrick Street as a route but I can guarantee getting through the city in the evenings is going to be even worse after this.

the beer revolu

fin12 wrote: »

Parking for free on the north side is really limited. I know one or two places where you can park for free but you have to get there early.

Parking in Blackpool isn’t much of an option as they are clamping cars in the retail park after three hours and I don’t know if you would get away with parking your car in Duness all day.

Who said anything about parking for free?
The poster is already paying for a multistorey near their place of work and it is allegedly taking an hour longer to cross town now. I'm just suggesting that they park somewhere around the north side, walk 5 to 10 minutes and save themselves 50 to 55 minutes in traffic.

fin12

the beer revolu wrote: »

Who said anything about parking for free?
The poster is already paying for a multistorey near their place of work and it is allegedly taking an hour longer to cross town now. I'm just suggesting that they park somewhere around the north side, walk 5 to 10 minutes and save themselves 50 to 55 minutes in traffic.

Ya but where in the north side are you suggesting he parks? And he’d need to walk a lot more than 5 or ten minutes if he wants to park out of the city and avoid the traffic.

the beer revolu

fin12 wrote: »

Ya but where in the north side are you suggesting he parks? And he’d need to walk a lot more than 5 or ten minutes if he wants to park out of the city and avoid the traffic.

They only need to avoid the alleged extra hour's worth of traffic caused by the new change. Surely this change isn't affecting traffic out the Watercourse Road or going up Shandon Street.

I haven't looked but there are always paid parking options around the city.

I know that you can park in the North Cathedral for one. You'd walk to most of the city centre in 10 minutes from there.

fin12

the beer revolu wrote: »

They only need to avoid the extra hour's worth of traffic caused by the new change. Surely this change isn't affecting traffic out the Watercourse Road or going up Shandon Street.

I haven't looked but there are always paid parking options around the city.

It will actually effect Shandon street because all the traffic that used to go down Patrick street is now diverted down corn market street backing up all the traffic along that quay to get to Shannon Street.

the beer revolu

fin12 wrote: »

It will actually effect Shandon street because all the traffic that used to go down Patrick street is now diverted down corn market street backing up all the traffic along that quay to get to Shannon Street.

If a motorist was previously driving northwards on St Patrick's Street, presumably, they crossed St Patrick's Bridge or turned left to cross Christy Ring Bridge.
If they are now directed down Cornmarket Street, presumably, they will turn right for CR Bridge or SP's Bridge rather than head left for Shandon Street.

namloc1980

fin12 wrote: »

Ya but where in the north side are you suggesting he parks? And he’d need to walk a lot more than 5 or ten minutes if he wants to park out of the city and avoid the traffic.

The poster already stated that walking wasn't an option because they weren't prepared to walk in the rain. To me an extra hour sitting in the car versus a much quicker walk is no contest but it's not an option apparently.

opus

Was on Patrick St this afternoon heading to Dunnes and it's a lot better for pedestrians now. Not sure if I just imagined it but looked like there were more people around than a normal Sat. Took me a second to remember why I was just able to cross the road without having to wait for a green light

Thumbs up from me anyway but then I live within easy walking distance.

Skedaddle

I think it should work well. I read an article about the uproar when they pedestrianised Grafton Street in Dublin back in the 1980s and nowadays it would be unimaginable to have cars going up and down there, yet back then there was absolute insistence by some that it would be the death of the city centre if you couldn't double park outside Switzers (now Brown Thomas).

Patrick's Street has been effectively a pedestrian priority zone for a long time anyway, but I think it would be a huge asset to the city as a fully pedestrian area. It's meandering public space, that is highly usable for all sorts of stuff.

I've always avoided driving up / down Pana as it's invariably very slow, except at night.

For most inter-suburban routes in Cork, you're better off going over the bridges and use the South Link on the Southside and the N40 as a distributor road to get to parts of Douglas, Bishopstown, Wilton, Togher etc etc.

If you're headed for the NE of the city i.e. Montenotte, Mayfield, Ballyvolane, parts of Glanmire etc, you're better off avoiding the city centre and using the bridges and heading up Summer Hill North / accessing via the Lower Glanmire Road and Silversprings.

The NW of the City is accessible via the Blackpool Bypass or Blackpool village quite easily, or though Sunday's Well (albeit a bit of a squeeze.)

If you're heading towards UCC, you can still easily get to Washington Street / Western Road via the South Mall and Grand Parade.

Going from say St Lukes to UCC, I would absolutely never go via Patrick's Street anyway. I'd take the bridges, then go around City Hall, past the end of Albert Road and back up onto George's Quay and straight out by St. Finbarre's.

Also the City Centre is actually excellently served by public car parks. It's not that hard to get into town from any number of multistories.

There are loads of alternative routes, you just have to think about them a bit.

The City Centre absolutely *has* to be an experience, a pleasant shopping and entertainment space that is capable of holding its own against increasingly sophisticated suburban shopping malls. Also, and I say this as a Dub, Cork City centre has a hell of a lot going for it. It's probably one of the (if not the) best shopping precinct in Ireland by a long shot. It's FAR nicer to shop in than Dublin and it's getting an ever increasing range of shops that really put it into a different league to Limerick and Galway.

It's a huge asset and I think this will actually drive it to another level. My view of Cork is that it's far more like a continental urban centre in many ways and has highly attractive, living space right in the city centre almost. It feels like a proper city in a way that Dublin sadly doesn't anymore as it's been destroyed by bad planning. I'm actually perpetually annoyed about some of the decisions that were made in Dublin that completely killed its formerly bustling quays and shopping areas in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Cork hasn't quite made as many of those mistakes and still remains largely intact as a city.

It feels like it's starting to come together in the same way that some of the West Cork towns do on a much smaller scale, only as a decent sized city. I think it really does have the fabric, the setting and the potential to be a really attractive city. Getting this right, turns Patrick's Street into potentially Ireland's best urban space.

macraignil

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm really not buying the idea that the traffic this week is putting an hour on to your commute home. Sorry, but I just don't believe it.

Why not find somewhere to park on the North Side of the city centre and walk to work?

I find it hard to believe as well that with school holiday traffic the city is in such gridlock in the evenings. Yes I did use Patrick street as a way to get form the multi-story car park out of the city but all of the alternative routes are so congested that it does take about an extra hour to get through the evening commute. There are no parking spaces on the north side of the city to allow for what you're suggesting but thanks for the suggestion.

fin12

the beer revolu wrote: »

If a motorist was previously driving northwards on St Patrick's Street, presumably, they crossed St Patrick's Bridge or turned left to cross Christy Ring Bridge.
If they are now directed down Cornmarket Street, presumably, they will turn right for CR Bridge or SP's Bridge rather than head left for Shandon Street.

But there’s going to more traffic there.

I honestly don’t know what the f*ck people are on about in this thread, if ye think this isn’t going to effect getting through Cork city in the evenings yed want your head testing.

Cork city traffic is bad enough without this bullsh*t idea. I was driving down Washington Street today, f*ckin disaster, wait till it’s a week day.

Ludo

fin12 wrote: »

I was driving down Washington Street today, f*ckin disaster, wait till it’s a week day.

How long did it take?