Careless cyclists.

AndrewJRenko

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

My recollection of the events was incorrect which was easily verified/linked by several posters.

To speculate on an accident which just happened this evening and where there are no details available to the general public, is a different matter entirely.

And yet, you've opted to label it as 'accident' despite the absence of any information?

tedpan

One from last week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NyvkG6PrqQ

Wish the recording didn't stop in the middle. He literally did not look either way.

suicide_circus

cyclists can do no wrong

amcalester

suicide_circus wrote: »

cyclists can do no wrong

People keep throwing this line up as if that is what cyclists are claiming.

Can you back that up and quote a post where anyone actually said cyclists can do no wrong?

suicide_circus

amcalester wrote: »

People keep throwing this line up as if that is what cyclists are claiming.

Can you back that up and quote a post where anyone actually said cyclists can do no wrong?

Any thread about bad behaviour by cyclists is met with "de motorist is worse!". Now this may well be true but that's not the subject of the thread. Why can't the issue of naughty cyclists be discussed in isolation?

Danjamin1

amcalester wrote: »

People keep throwing this line up as if that is what cyclists are claiming.

Can you back that up and quote a post where anyone actually said cyclists can do no wrong?

Yeah I’ve yet to see poor cyclist behaviour condoned by anyone. With regard to the original question it appears that the rules of the road allow for staying in the left lane the entire way around a roundabout while it’s also perfectly acceptable to use the appropriate traffic lane for such a maneuver. So the only carelessness or poor behaviour is potentially not checking or signaling correctly which anyone would agree is foolish. Or is the OP suggesting cyclists should be banned from the roundabout as there is access to an alternative tunnel?

PeterParker957

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Let me know where there is any disgusting justification of any crime on this thread please?

Every single post the cycle mafia EVER post.

I have been injured by a cyclist breaking the law. Because he didn't kill me, does that mean it is okay ?

Larry Murphy raped and tortured women. Does that mean that because Harvey Winstein isn't as bad that we let him off ?

If for one second you could take off the blinkers and admit that cyclists break the traffic laws on a daily basis then people would have more respect for your position but sadly all that you get is deflection, after deflection and "but cars are worse".

gmacww

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And yet, you've opted to label it as 'accident' despite the absence of any information?

I think we need to take a breath here and relax a little. WA made a comment that he acknowledges he got incorrect. Labeling something that happened on our roads as an accident is often a turn of phrase one has from being brought up using it. We don't all conform to the Hot Fuzz official vocab guidelines.

Bringing up the death of a minor within hours as part of a road traffic collision (see what I did there) where we know absolutely nothing about in order to have a dig is completely below the belt.

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Every single post the cycle mafia EVER post.

Because we are all just one big mafia hive mind. Of course it makes perfect sense. Tell me have you ever read any of the cycling forum? You'll regularly see discussions around what is right and wrong and lane position and road awareness. The issue only comes when someone posts in with a wide sweeping statement that all cyclists are the same or they should be kicked off the roads without any form of engaged discussion or where they tell of an incident without any situation context around it.

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I have been injured by a cyclist breaking the law. Because he didn't kill me, does that mean it is okay ?

Of course not but again you can't just come in and say this happened without putting any form of context or story around it. This is what I referenced above.

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Larry Murphy raped and tortured women. Does that mean that because Harvey Winstein isn't as bad that we let him off ?

Wow! Just WOW.

PeterParker957 wrote: »

If for one second you could take off the blinkers and admit that cyclists break the traffic laws on a daily basis then people would have more respect for your position but sadly all that you get is deflection, after deflection and "but cars are worse".

If you actually took your blinkers off and read this discussion as opposed to coming in at the end and making again a sweeping comment with zero context you'd be much better informed. All through this thread and indeed as I've said in the cycling forum, you'll see cyclists and motorists say that there are many cyclists who break traffic laws on a daily basis. Nobody has denied that at any point. You can't however decree that all cyclists are the same based off a few. I drove into work today and 3 cars in front of me broke a read light in Harrolds X. Can I safely say that drivers break traffic laws every single day? Yes I can. But not all drivers do. Plenty are very good drivers but we also have some truly shocking ones. That's as completely a fair comment as saying the same about cyclists and you'd be hard pressed to get a single cyclist to disagree with you there.

PeterParker957

suicide_circus wrote: »

Any thread about bad behaviour by cyclists is met with "de motorist is worse!". Now this may well be true but that's not the subject of the thread. Why can't the issue of naughty cyclists be discussed in isolation?

On a hiding to nothing there Suicide - they'll NEVER allow any criticism of cyclists.

Any incident (like the one where I was hurt) was mocked as "anecdotal", noted that cars are worse (their mantra) and throw up statistics about motorists.

A cyclist was killed near me, completely and utterly their own fault - was on CCTV. The driver was pilloried in the local press and online yet he had followed every single rule correctly.

amcalester

suicide_circus wrote: »

Any thread about bad behaviour by cyclists is met with "de motorist is worse!". Now this may well be true but that's not the subject of the thread. Why can't the issue of naughty cyclists be discussed in isolation?

So which is it?

Cyclists can do no wrong or the motorists are worse?

The issue of naughty cyclists can't really be discussed in isolation because whenever it comes up it generally turns into motorists berating cyclists for things that they (most likely) do themselves, or see other motorists do, but chose to ignore i.e. speeding, red light breaking etc.

It also usually involves people calling for either new laws or increased enforcement of existing cycling offences (which I would welcome) but as there are finite resources to enforce these laws it's only right that people point out the multitude of more dangerous offences not being enforced, ones that actually result in deaths.

gmacww

PeterParker957 wrote: »

On a hiding to nothing there Suicide - they'll NEVER allow any criticism of cyclists.

Again who's they and have you actually read this thread?

suicide_circus

Sorry no time to answer, I'm off to wax my legs and shave 0.8 of a second off my morning commute

amcalester

suicide_circus wrote: »

Sorry no time to answer, I'm off to wax my legs and shave 0.8 of a second off my morning commute

No time to answer but you have time to make jokes?

I can only assume that you're unable to answer because there was no substance to your original post.

PeterParker957

suicide_circus wrote: »

Sorry no time to answer, I'm off to wax my legs and shave 0.8 of a second off my morning commute

Don't forget to use tram platforms and pavements because "their(sic) better"!!

PeterParker957

gmacww wrote: »

Again who's they and have you actually read this thread?

In reverse order yes, I have and you really don't think there's a pro cycling bias in the moderation ??? Always has been and always will be.

gmacww

PeterParker957 wrote: »

In reverse order yes, I have and you really don't think there's a pro cycling bias in the moderation ??? Always has been and always will be.

So are we now talking about the moderation or the posts? They are too vastly different things one of which I and every other poster has no control over and often annoys the hell out of us. Your posts however seem to have attacked posters, well cyclists in general, which have no connection with the moderation.

PeterParker957

gmacww wrote: »

I think we need to take a breath here and relax a little. WA made a comment that he acknowledges he got incorrect. Labeling something that happened on our roads as an accident is often a turn of phrase one has from being brought up using it. We don't all conform to the Hot Fuzz official vocab guidelines.

Bringing up the death of a minor within hours as part of a road traffic collision (see what I did there) where we know absolutely nothing about in order to have a dig is completely below the belt.



Because we are all just one big mafia hive mind. Of course it makes perfect sense. Tell me have you ever read any of the cycling forum? You'll regularly see discussions around what is right and wrong and lane position and road awareness. The issue only comes when someone posts in with a wide sweeping statement that all cyclists are the same or they should be kicked off the roads without any form of engaged discussion or where they tell of an incident without any situation context around it.



Of course not but again you can't just come in and say this happened without putting any form of context or story around it. This is what I referenced above.



Wow! Just WOW.



If you actually took your blinkers off and read this discussion as opposed to coming in at the end and making again a sweeping comment with zero context you'd be much better informed. All through this thread and indeed as I've said in the cycling forum, you'll see cyclists and motorists say that there are many cyclists who break traffic laws on a daily basis. Nobody has denied that at any point. You can't however decree that all cyclists are the same based off a few. I drove into work today and 3 cars in front of me broke a read light in Harrolds X. Can I safely say that drivers break traffic laws every single day? Yes I can. But not all drivers do. Plenty are very good drivers but we also have some truly shocking ones. That's as completely a fair comment as saying the same about cyclists and you'd be hard pressed to get a single cyclist to disagree with you there.

I've brought it up before, I even reported on a collision I was next to where a woman was knocked unconscious by a cyclist hurtling down Dame Street and running a red. I was told in no uncertain terms that this was purely anecdotal and that basically it didn't happen. I was the one who called the ambulance. The noise as the lady's head hit the road will stay with me.

I wouldn't say every cyclist is a menace, I don't know all cyclists - but I can say that in nearly 11 years of being a Dublin pedestrian I have seen several infractions daily, many that have the potential to cause loss of life.

I've also been personally injured three times, once quite badly and yet apparently this doesn't count - yet it happened through NO fault of my own.

To laugh these off and quote statistics (not that you personally have done that) is doing a disservice to pedestrians who have been hurt.

PeterParker957

gmacww wrote: »

So are we now talking about the moderation or the posts? They are too vastly different things one of which I and every other poster has no control over and often annoys the hell out of us. Your posts however seem to have attacked posters, well cyclists in general, which have no connection with the moderation.

I'm attacking no one - I am trying to make a point which (my experience tells me) will never be allowed to stand, that there are cyclists who, on a daily basis, routinely break the law endangering others and will never ever be admonished for it.

I don't believe that is in any way wrong.

Hurrache

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Every single post the cycle mafia EVER post.

Oh the irony.

gmacww

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I'm attacking no one - I am trying to make a point which (my experience tells me) will never be allowed to stand, that there are cyclists who, on a daily basis, routinely break the law endangering others and will never ever be admonished for it.

I don't believe that is in any way wrong.

It's not wrong however your attitude you've displayed calling cyclists a mafia is not endearing you to anyone and if anything leads to a lessening interest or depth to your posts. Come on think about it. Really, you're above that and more intelligent than that.

Any point you make as long as it's within full context will always stand and always be discussed and rarely if ever just rebuked. Like I said of course there are cyclists who break the laws daily however there are motorists and pedestrians who do it daily. Does that mean all motorists are a mafia? No. Are all pedestrians a mafia? No. So why are all cyclists?

Now at the risk of this becoming an overly long post let me briefly address your other post. I don't know the thread or the incident that you speak of so I can honestly say I've no idea why you got the reaction you feel you did. So I can not confirm your side of those events or even defend anyone that went against you but let me give you one example of what regularly happens in the cycling forum and this is not in any way to say this is what happened in your situation. It just might give you some context.

Car driver posts up all cyclists should be shot or something because I was driving and almost ploughed into a bunch of them that were "all over the road" etc... As the discussion unfolds and gets heated we find out it's a harrow country road where the driver was doing well north of 100kph around a blind bend. Ends up with said driver and some mates determining that "jesus the cyclist is never to blame is he see you all just back each other up". Now also to put the other side spin on this I also post in the motors forum and have seen similar discussion in there and most drivers shutting down the driver for not having due care and attention yet the poster still proclaiming that the "cyclist is never to blame". Can never win with some people.

doolox

Came across a cyclist breaking through a red, stopping several meters beyond the stop line and making several hamfisted attempts to dart across through fast traffic crossing the interchange with green light on their side and practically daring traffic to hit him.

He probably had the bike in too high a gear and couldn't dart through like a pedestrian ( a very FIT pedestrian) might be able to do.

A cop car was parked up on the left half up on the footpath ( as one does when you cannot be pulled by fellow cops, gives great example to the ordinary road-using peasants...). They did nothing to pull over the cyclist and just ignored the whole scene.

gmacww

doolox wrote: »

A cop car was parked up on the left half up on the footpath. They did nothing to pull over the cyclist and just ignored the whole scene.

Sadly this is the crux of all of our road issues. A complete lack of enforcement for any violations regardless of the mode of transport.

Tombo2001

gmacww wrote: »

Sadly this is the crux of all of our road issues. A complete lack of enforcement for any violations regardless of the mode of transport.

Not true.

Gardai pull up plenty of people.

Circa 3000 drivers in Dublin are given points each year for breaking lights; it doesnt change behaviour.

PeterParker957

doolox wrote: »

Came across a cyclist breaking through a red, stopping several meters beyond the stop line and making several hamfisted attempts to dart across through fast traffic crossing the interchange with green light on their side and practically daring traffic to hit him.

He probably had the bike in too high a gear and couldn't dart through like a pedestrian ( a very FIT pedestrian) might be able to do.

A cop car was parked up on the left half up on the footpath ( as one does when you cannot be pulled by fellow cops, gives great example to the ordinary road-using peasants...). They did nothing to pull over the cyclist and just ignored the whole scene.

Seen that many a time, more often than not from Garda Traffic! Exactly what are they there for ???

PeterParker957

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Not true.

Gardai pull up plenty of people.

Circa 3000 drivers in Dublin are given points each year for breaking lights; it doesnt change behaviour.

So what, we don't try it with cyclists ?

PeterParker957

gmacww wrote: »

It's not wrong however your attitude you've displayed calling cyclists a mafia is not endearing you to anyone and if anything leads to a lessening interest or depth to your posts. Come on think about it. Really, you're above that and more intelligent than that.

Any point you make as long as it's within full context will always stand and always be discussed and rarely if ever just rebuked. Like I said of course there are cyclists who break the laws daily however there are motorists and pedestrians who do it daily. Does that mean all motorists are a mafia? No. Are all pedestrians a mafia? No. So why are all cyclists?

Now at the risk of this becoming an overly long post let me briefly address your other post. I don't know the thread or the incident that you speak of so I can honestly say I've no idea why you got the reaction you feel you did. So I can not confirm your side of those events or even defend anyone that went against you but let me give you one example of what regularly happens in the cycling forum and this is not in any way to say this is what happened in your situation. It just might give you some context.

Car driver posts up all cyclists should be shot or something because I was driving and almost ploughed into a bunch of them that were "all over the road" etc... As the discussion unfolds and gets heated we find out it's a harrow country road where the driver was doing well north of 100kph around a blind bend. Ends up with said driver and some mates determining that "jesus the cyclist is never to blame is he see you all just back each other up". Now also to put the other side spin on this I also post in the motors forum and have seen similar discussion in there and most drivers shutting down the driver for not having due care and attention yet the poster still proclaiming that the "cyclist is never to blame". Can never win with some people.

I take your points definitely, and I am certain a decent proportion of commuting cyclists are fine and dandy. HOWEVER, there are posters on here -
some with mod privileges - perhaps elsewhere - who will denounce ANY criticism of cyclists, no matter how warranted and belittle the poster.

I used to walk something like 40-50km a week through Dublin before the arthritis got worse and saw a LOT of traffic, like I said three injuries from law-breaking cyclists; one quite bad.

It's soul destroying when you come to a Commuting forum that is meant to reflect the views of all forms of commuter and you are laughed at for reporting negative behaviour.

Lord Glentoran

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I take your points definitely, and I am certain a decent proportion of commuting cyclists are fine and dandy. HOWEVER, there are posters on here -
some with mod privileges - perhaps elsewhere - who will denounce ANY criticism of cyclists, no matter how warranted and belittle the poster.

I used to walk something like 40-50km a week through Dublin before the arthritis got worse and saw a LOT of traffic, like I said three injuries from law-breaking cyclists; one quite bad.

It's soul destroying when you come to a Commuting forum that is meant to reflect the views of all forms of commuter and you are laughed at for reporting negative behaviour.

I think when so many dropped religious belief they transferred that unique cast-iron certainty that characterised so much Irish Catholicism into other things.

marvin80

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Not true.

Gardai pull up plenty of people.

Circa 3000 drivers in Dublin are given points each year for breaking lights; it doesnt change behaviour.

Plenty of cyclists fined as well:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cyclists-given-1-660-on-the-spot-fines-over-past-two-years-1.3202608

Tombo2001

marvin80 wrote: »

Plenty of cyclists fined as well:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cyclists-given-1-660-on-the-spot-fines-over-past-two-years-1.3202608

Absolutely.

Wasnt my intention to say this was a motorist only issue, its not.

However I dont believe its fair to say..... "if only were enforced".....because it is enforced; and its enforced quite a lot.

But the random breaking of traffic lights is so endemic both amongst cyclists and amongst motorists that the gardai really arent putting a dent into it. And also pedestrians, lets not forget.

Its impossible to police every single traffic light at all moments of the day.

And the punishments for those caught are reasonably tough.

And apart from any of that - I am guessing that most cyclists and motorists know at this point that braking a red light is the wrong thing to do, and against the law.

This is not on the Gardai.

PeterParker957

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Absolutely.

Wasnt my intention to say this was a motorist only issue, its not.

However I dont believe its fair to say..... "if only were enforced".....because it is enforced; and its enforced quite a lot.

But the random breaking of traffic lights is so endemic both amongst cyclists and amongst motorists that the gardai really arent putting a dent into it. And also pedestrians, lets not forget.

Its impossible to police every single traffic light at all moments of the day.

And the punishments for those caught are reasonably tough.

And apart from any of that - I am guessing that most cyclists and motorists know at this point that braking a red light is the wrong thing to do, and against the law.

This is not on the Gardai.

I think a lack of enforcement can in a very small way be in the hands of Gardai but the lack of identification of cyclists is a problem - I know the one who hit me zoomed off without stopping.