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Careless cyclists.

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12357…13

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    #122
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,509 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Have a look at the footage put up from cycle cameras and you'll see the complete opposite - lots of shocking footage of dangerous driving from motorists.

    it happens on both sides, this is a thread about cyclists. they need to realist that they do stupid stuff too


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    #123
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    The reality is that there are areas in Dublin that are not safe for cyclists to travel on. Especially the city centre. It's hard enough to drive around there never mind cycle. You can paint all the cycle lanes you like and then say yep Dublin is a cyclists city, but it's not.


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    #124
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    ebbsy wrote: »
    The reality is that there are areas in Dublin that are not safe for cyclists to travel on. Especially the city centre. It's hard enough to drive around there never mind cycle. You can paint all the cycle lanes you like and then say yep Dublin is a cyclists city, but it's not.

    No truer words.

    DCC are slowly pushing cars out of the city centre and promoting public and cycle transport.
    Now they're doing a sh*t job actually providing these services, but the days of cars between the canals is numbered.


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    #125
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Madilyn Slow Cupcake wrote: »
    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Some cyclists.

    Have cyclists been killing pedestrians lately?

    Actually yes!

    Well cyclist was killed hitting a pedestrian who ventured into the cycle path in the phoenix park and a pedestrian seriously injured on Gardiner st.

    We don't know but we assume the pedestrian stepped into the path of the cyclist who was killed.


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    #126
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    the_pen_turner wrote: »

    it happens on both sides, this is a thread about cyclists. they need to realist that they do stupid stuff too


    Actually the thread was about a roundabout and there are more than one way for a cyclist to go around it.


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    #127
    VONSHIRACH
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭VONSHIRACH


    I wait for a bus home on Westland Row after 5.30pm weekdays. A lot of cyclists ignore the pedestrian crossing lights and steam through the red lights for traffic. It was comical last week to see a cyclist verbally abusing a pedestrian crossing the road when green for the pedestrians.


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    #128
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    the reason there ais no data on that is that they wont look at crashes with an unbiased view. they look at the blaming th emotorist before any eveidence is seen.
    you're complaining about lack of facts and are now making an unsupported claim about bias in determining cause of accidents.


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    #129
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,652 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Madilyn Slow Cupcake wrote: »
    Actually yes!

    Well cyclist was killed hitting a pedestrian who ventured into the cycle path in the phoenix park and a pedestrian seriously injured on Gardiner st.

    So that's a No then.

    And how seriously was that pedestrian in Gardiner St injured, compared to the pedestrians who were maimed by motorists on that same day?


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    #130
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,652 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    it happens on both sides, this is a thread about cyclists. they need to realist that they do stupid stuff too

    Very true - lots of cyclists do lots of stupid stuff, but what they don't do is kill and maim people each week on the roads.


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    #131
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    you're complaining about lack of facts and are now making an unsupported claim about bias in determining cause of accidents.
    anyway, a TfL report from a few years back found that in the majority of collisions with bikes which were serious (KSIs), it was the motorist which was at fault.
    left hooks and rear-endings alone accounted for 49% of them.
    page 21.
    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/pedal-cyclist-fatalities-in-london.pdf


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    #132
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,652 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    VONSHIRACH wrote: »
    I wait for a bus home on Westland Row after 5.30pm weekdays. A lot of cyclists ignore the pedestrian crossing lights and steam through the red lights for traffic. It was comical last week to see a cyclist verbally abusing a pedestrian crossing the road when green for the pedestrians.

    Did you try counting the number of motorists who parked illegally in the cycle lane there to pop in to Centra or collect their darling from the School of Music?


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    #133
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Very true - lots of cyclists do lots of stupid stuff, but what they don't do is kill and maim people each week on the roads.

    Are we 100% sure thst cyclists do not maintain or kill themselves, or are motorists the only ones who hurt cyclists?


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    #134
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Did you try counting the number of motorists who parked illegally in the cycle lane there to pop in to Centra or collect their darling from the School of Music?

    What's that got to do with the thread title?


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    #135
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    anyway, a TfL report from a few years back found that in the majority of collisions with bikes which were serious (KSIs), it was the motorist which was at fault.
    left hooks and rear-endings alone accounted for 49% of them.
    page 21.
    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/pedal-cyclist-fatalities-in-london.pdf

    You can't get left hooked if you don't cycle up the inside of cars. Simple really. Legal, but absolutely stupid behaviour in my view.


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    #136
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,509 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    the reason there ais no data on that is that they wont look at crashes with an unbiased view. they look at the blaming th emotorist before any eveidence is seen.
    you're complaining about lack of facts and are now making an unsupported claim about bias in determining cause of accidents.
    Not sure what's going on with my spelling in that post.

    Well there are no reports showing who was to blame but the blame is put on the motorist.
    What we see on the road everyday would lead you to question if the data is accurate. We often see all sides doing stupid stuff but the reports don't show that.


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    #137
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    You can't get left hooked if you don't cycle up the inside of cars. Simple really. Legal, but absolutely stupid behaviour in my view.

    The cycle lane is usually up the inside of cars :confused::confused:


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    #138
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    You can't get left hooked if you don't cycle up the inside of cars. Simple really. Legal, but absolutely stupid behaviour in my view.

    Eh? Most left hooks are when an impatient clown overtakes you and then hooks you.


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    #139
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    You can't get left hooked if you don't cycle up the inside of cars.
    what? you say you cycle - have you never been overtaken by a car which immediately turns left? happened me last week, he came within about 2m of hitting me at speed.


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    #140
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,652 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    Not sure what's going on with my spelling in that post.

    Well there are no reports showing who was to blame but the blame is put on the motorist.
    What we see on the road everyday would lead you to question if the data is accurate. We often see all sides doing stupid stuff but the reports don't show that.
    There are loads of reports showing exactly who is to blame for the deaths on the road - check out the RSA road death analysis


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    #141
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    what? you say you cycle - have you never been overtaken by a car which immediately turns left? happened me last week, he came within about 2m of hitting me at speed.

    Extremely rarely to be honest. What I do see often are cyclists who continue straight in the cycle lane when there is car waiting to turn left.

    Cyclist has the right of way, I know, but all it takes is one driver not to see you. Safest thing to do is back off the speed of necessary, plan a few hundred metres ahead, and put yourself in a good defensive road position, and overtake as a car would do.


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    #142
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,966 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    You can't get left hooked if you don't cycle up the inside of cars. Simple really. Legal, but absolutely stupid behaviour in my view.
    " shakes head" - have you ever cycled at all?


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    #143
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    " shakes head" - have you ever cycled at all?

    Attack the post, not the poster is usually the rule on boards.

    Every day for years in Dublin, a little less often now I work outside the city.


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    #144
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    Extremely rarely to be honest. What I do see often are cyclists who continue straight in the cycle lane when there is car waiting to turn left.

    Cyclist has the right of way, I know, but all it takes is one driver not to see you. Safest thing to do is back off the speed of necessary, plan a few hundred metres ahead, and put yourself in a good defensive road position, and overtake as a car would do.

    So your answer to dangerous driving is dangerous cycling?
    Pull out of a cycling lane into traffic and weave around a car back into the lane? What about the traffic behind that sees the guy indicate left, then pull out to overtake him, then cut you down as you make that idiotic maneuver?


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    #145
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,509 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    Not sure what's going on with my spelling in that post.

    Well there are no reports showing who was to blame but the blame is put on the motorist.
    What we see on the road everyday would lead you to question if the data is accurate. We often see all sides doing stupid stuff but the reports don't show that.
    There are loads of reports showing exactly who is to blame for the deaths on the road - check out the RSA road death analysis
    Why do you think that those don't reflect what we all see everyday. Cyclists and pedestrian s doing stupid stuff that puts their lives in serious danger. Surely some of those close call result s in a death


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    #146
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    eeguy wrote: »
    So your answer to dangerous driving is dangerous cycling?
    Pull out of a cycling lane into traffic and weave around a car back into the lane? What about the traffic behind that sees the guy indicate left, then pull out to overtake him, then cut you down as you make that idiotic maneuver?

    Or, you take account of the prevailing traffic conditions and put yourself at minimum risk, instead of inventing the worst possible case scenario.

    I'll propose the alternative that is to live by the rule of law only, and cycle up the inside of a truck that has his left indicator on. Don't worry about getting crushed under the back wheels, it's the truck drivers responsibility to see you.


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    #147
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,966 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    eeguy wrote: »
    So your answer to dangerous driving is dangerous cycling?
    Pull out of a cycling lane into traffic and weave around a car back into the lane? What about the traffic behind that sees the guy indicate left, then pull out to overtake him, then cut you down as you make that idiotic maneuver?
    I wouldn't call that an idiotic manoeuvre. It's the standard approach in the circumstances where it is obvious a vehicle is going to turn left. However, most cyclists who are in collision with a left turning vehicle have no opportunity to anticipate it as the driver overtakes them and immediately turns left.


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    #148
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,966 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    I'll propose the alternative that is to live by the rule of law only, and cycle up the inside of a truck that has his left indicator on. Don't worry about getting crushed under the back wheels, it's the truck drivers responsibility to see you.
    That's a different scenario and I don't know if there's any cyclist here who would go up the inside of a truck which is turning left (or any vehicle).

    Take this scenarion. Cyclist waiting on the cycle track at a red light. Truck approaches from behind and intends to turn left. Truck has a left turn filter arrow and proceeds to turn catching the cyclist with the trailer. Cyclist hasn't done anything wrong and has not gone up the inside of any vehicle.


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    #149
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,652 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    Why do you think that those don't reflect what we all see everyday. Cyclists and pedestrian s doing stupid stuff that puts their lives in serious danger. Surely some of those close call result s in a death

    Selection bias would certainly be one of reasons - we "all" see loads of cyclists breaking the lights, but yet the objective Luas red light camera picked up 88% of red light jumpers were motorists not cyclists.

    We 'all' see the motorists that dragged us down to 2nd worst position on the European league table for mobile phone abuse, and yet we choose to moan about cyclists. We "all" see the reporting of the three or four people killed by motorists on the road every week, and we instantly forgot - and when the press reports a single incident of a pedestrian injured by a cyclist (ref Gardiner St), we remember the where and when.


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    #150
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Kevin Irving wrote: »
    Or, you take account of the prevailing traffic conditions and put yourself at minimum risk, instead of inventing the worst possible case scenario.

    I'll propose the alternative that is to live by the rule of law only, and cycle up the inside of a truck that has his left indicator on. Don't worry about getting crushed under the back wheels, it's the truck drivers responsibility to see you.

    Ok I'll be charitable and guess that you may have a different interpretation of what a left hook actually is compared to others.


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    #151
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    The answer lies somewhere in the middle and were both taking the opposite ends of the spectrum.

    Impatience is the biggest culprit among car drivers I think, but equally, there are some cyclists who have very little regard for their own safety in the race to get to work.

    I cringe and look away when I see some people squeeze up between two busses, or overtake a parked car without even looking around. The parked car is at fault here for example, but the cyclist needs to assess this and think about their road position far ahead to avoid having to swerve out.


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