The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

amdublin

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Have you any idea of the process of ffa diagnosis? As stated numerous times at an early scan something not right detected, did as much of a anomaly scan as possible based on the fact I was only 12 weeks. (Hence why I said early) Heart and some internal organs not able to be assessed. (Would need to check them at 18+weeks)

Probability given based on above. CVS performed. Rare trisomy found. Contact with fetal medicine here and in England (neither country had every come across a full case Trisomy of my dianosis) genetic counselling with geneticist in Crumlin. Contact with FM and geneticist here suggested Amnio- England recommending termination based on fact I would have to undergo the type of termination dr. Mcpartland spoke of when heart is stopped prior to induction of delivery - if I waited on amino results. Lab had no direct contact with me.

Every individual case is different on diagnosis. How dare you suggest my story is not as is because it doesn't suit you. so please jog on and take your comments elsewhere.

Oh for God's sake just clarify willya!

You're the one who chose to post here about your personal experience which you believe is related to the 8th amendment rather than a personal choice you made. Now back that up with the full story please because at the moment your personal story is unclear and is making your argument weak, in fact non existent.

petalgumdrops

amdublin wrote: »

Oh for God's sake just clarify willya!

You're the one who chose to post here about your personal experience which you believe is related to the 8th amendment rather than a personal choice you made. Now back that up with the full story please because at the moment your personal story is unclear and is making your argument weak, in fact non existent.

Seriously? So only people who have the means to travel are affected by the 8th. THE 8th is only about terminations? Funny I see women referencing episomities/ breaking of waters/unwanted interventions/forced HCG tests as a detrimental affect of the 8th? - are you saying this isn't so? That these have nothing to do with the 8th? So basically then we can assume this is healthcare.

Just because I didn't travel doesn't mean I could have. Just because my baby was born healthy doesn't mean that the 8th doesn't affect me.

Giving equal right to life to both myself and my son means he is here. If you bothered to read anything of the continuation of my pregnancy then you would see that.

pjohnson

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Seriously? So only people who have the means to travel are affected by the 8th. THE 8th is only about terminations? Funny I.see the

So we are back to you somehow couldn't travel because of the 8th as how your baby was saved again are we?

lazygal

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Seriously? So only people who have the means to travel are affected by the 8th. THE 8th is only about terminations? Funny I.see the

How exactly did the eighth save your baby or mine? We both made choices based on what we wanted to do.

lazygal

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Giving equal right to life to both myself and my son means he is here. If you bothered to read anything of the continuation of my pregnancy then you would see that.

Are you suggesting the only reason you continued the pregnancy is because of the eighth amendment? Would you have had an abortion if that option was available to you?

amdublin

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Seriously? So only people who have the means to travel are affected by the 8th. THE 8th is only about terminations? Funny I.see the

You may have quoted the wrong post?

Otherwise I'm even more confused!

groovyg

amdublin wrote: »

Oh for God's sake just clarify willya!

You're the one who chose to post here about your personal experience which you believe is related to the 8th amendment rather than a personal choice you made. Now back that up with the full story please because at the moment your personal story is unclear and is making your argument weak, in fact non existent.

Isn’t that the point of it ...confuse and defect. I’ve seen similar stories from the likes of Jennifer Murnane O Connor.


On the life institute website she said she had a premie baby at 22 weeks gestation weighing 3 Ib and survived 30 years ago. She told the Seanad in March it was 20 weeks, then the following day she said it was 26 weeks.

That’s quiet a difference!
https://mobile.twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/978760062939402240

https://mobile.twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/979003505334738960

I mean come on what parent doesn’t remember the day their first born child was born. I remember where I grew up there were lots of couples who got married and baby arrived 5-6mths after the wedding...none of them were premature babies . I’m wondering if that’s what happened to her and she is just very confused:rolleyes:

lazygal

There's a few of the 'eighth amendment saved my baby' stories doing the rounds, ALL of which have an element of confusion and at their basis show that the pregnant woman made an active choice to remain pregnant and give birth.

pjohnson

lazygal wrote: »

There's a few of the 'eighth amendment saved my baby' stories doing the rounds, ALL of which have an element of confusion and at their basis show that the pregnant woman made an active choice to remain pregnant and give birth.

Thats whats been happening last two days imo. When answers are so muddled it really does make things seem made up.

lazygal

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats whats been happening last two days imo. When answers are so muddled it really does make things seem made up.

Like I said, I've been through similar recently and based on real life conversations and chats on message boards with others in the same boat the whole story is confusing to the point of it being hard to understand at all, based on what has been my experience and that of others in the Irish maternity system.

amdublin

amdublin wrote: »

You may have quoted the wrong post?

Otherwise I'm even more confused!

Best of luck to you on this, aparently as a man I can't question the poster, who seems to be saying that they would have had an abortion given the news they received if they were in England, was then very unhappy with the medical care they received in Ireland, but thankfully as their son was born healthy the 8th saved them. All while ignoring that other women don't have as happy an outcome as they thankfully did, and that due to the 8th they will receive similar medical care and that a persons beliefs have nothing to do with deciding if they will have an abortion or not. Also seems to ignore the fact as stated by other posters that even with repeal is successful women who don't believe in abortionn will continue to try to carry to term and receive the same level of medical care, while those that don't will be able to access services in Ireland, while also ignoring the fact that there are other reasons than FFA for women wishing to access abortion services.

pitifulgod

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe the shadowbanning on twitter of pro-lives of the mother and unborn baby accounts is helping to block out people seeing the illegal activity.
There is evidence of twitter helping the repeal side.
Just as the government is with Leo Varadkar telling people to fund the yes side, organisations who get tax payers money openly supporting the yes side. Inclusion Ireland who get near all their money from taxpayers were the latest who want to exclude the unborn life.

I have seen plenty of pictures on twitter, but I follow numerous accounts which are shadow banned.

Twitter have officially denied that. The application they are using to claim the shadowban shows a couple of pro choice people who are apparently shadow banned including the woman who exposed the fake nurse that the pro life campaign has... :P Anyone from a technical background has concluded the "shadow ban" is a technical glitch more than anything else.

Also please use legitimate news sources in relation to that Garda investigation. The Liberal has clearly made it up. It hasn't shown up in any other publication and traditionally the liberal plagiarises their news ergo just made it up in this scenario.

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

Like I said, I've been through similar recently and based on real life conversations and chats on message boards with others in the same boat the whole story is confusing to the point of it being hard to understand at all, based on what has been my experience and that of others in the Irish maternity system.

Someone will probably be along soon to say the reason for your experiences are because your pro choice.

Hannibal_Smith

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Seriously? So only people who have the means to travel are affected by the 8th. THE 8th is only about terminations? Funny I see women referencing episomities/ breaking of waters/unwanted interventions/forced HCG tests as a detrimental affect of the 8th? - are you saying this isn't so? That these have nothing to do with the 8th? So basically then we can assume this is healthcare.

Just because I didn't travel doesn't mean I could have. Just because my baby was born healthy doesn't mean that the 8th doesn't affect me.

Giving equal right to life to both myself and my son means he is here. If you bothered to read anything of the continuation of my pregnancy then you would see that.

Can I ask (without being told to re-read because there is a lot to filter through).

There was a fatal foetal abnormality found, so you were told your son wouldn't survive after birth? Your son was 5 weeks early, so the people in England suggested a termination, but you decided against it and for your child to be delivered early?

Your son is delivered 5 weeks early and thankfully is healthy.

The 8th saved his life. This comes across as, if the 8th had not existed, you would have followed the advice and had an abortion at 35 weeks?

pjohnson

lazygal wrote: »

Like I said, I've been through similar recently and based on real life conversations and chats on message boards with others in the same boat the whole story is confusing to the point of it being hard to understand at all, based on what has been my experience and that of others in the Irish maternity system.

You also managed to coherently lay out the timeline without randomly tying it to an unrelated factor.

lazygal

DubInMeath wrote: »

Someone will probably be along soon to say the reason for your experiences are because your pro choice.

I don't doubt it.

smokingman

So according to the love both crowd, rapists are the good guys and it's women that should be punished because....er...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/abortion-referendum/victims-of-rape-and-incest-should-carry-babies-to-full-term-say-campaigners-1.3444429?mode=amp

Sofiztikated

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Can I ask (without being told to re-read because there is a lot to filter through).

There was a fatal foetal abnormality found, so you were told your son wouldn't survive after birth? Your son was 5 weeks early, so the people in England suggested a termination, but you decided against it and for your child to be delivered early?

Your son is delivered 5 weeks early and thankfully is healthy.

The 8th saved his life. This comes across as, if the 8th had not existed, you would have followed the advice and had an abortion at 35 weeks?

I think the timeline was much earlier than that.

But I think it's more like "Tests showed one outcome. Recommendations based on statistical evidence pointed towards termination. Further tests confirmed prognosis. Continued with pregnancy, because termination unavailable here. Prognosis was wrong, child healthy. "

lazygal

Doctors in Ireland cannot recommend termination-it is illegal to do so. They can mention it as an option but that is all. And they cannot refer any patient to a UK hospital for termination.

pitifulgod

pitifulgod wrote: »

Also please use legitimate news sources in relation to that Garda investigation. The Liberal has clearly made it up. It hasn't shown up in any other publication and traditionally the liberal plagiarises their news ergo just made it up in this scenario.

Bit hard to do when they don't exist, best to fall back to a site that suits the persons agenda/beliefs even if know to publish made up stories and plagiarise others.

Hannibal_Smith

lazygal wrote: »

Doctors in Ireland cannot recommend termination-it is illegal to do so. They can mention it as an option but that is all. And they cannot refer any patient to a UK hospital for termination.

How come the tests can't be done here? Why do they have to be sent to a UK lab? That's pretty poor maternity care that we have to send results abroad isn't it?

petalgumdrops

Still wondering how the 8th managed to save your child's life. From your posts even news of FFA did not influence your decision to carry to term as is your right.

Sorry? So if I told you I got pregnant by accident and was forced to travel to london I.Would be more deserving of telling you the 8th had an affect on me?

How can you dare speculate on whether I wanted to carry to term or not? Whether I had the means to travel or not or whether I even had the physical ability to travel. Would love to see you question a woman who "could" travel. Please don't even respond to me again.

petalgumdrops wrote: »

By that standard whether we terminate or not is all based on beliefs and personal decision?

I have no personal ethos on terminations bar that for healthy babies there should be a limit.

Abortion in ireland was not something that was offered to me. It did not inform doctors practice on how my case was dealt with at a time when I was at my most vulnerable. Had I have been in England and based on how fetal medicine there had pushed reccomendation for termination- I would have grabbed it with both hands . When you are told your baby is one if only 4 cases ever to be born alive then you can't tell me that the 8th didn't have an impact on my outcome. Simlarily like how I can't tell other women that the 8th didn't impact negatively on them. It seems that this group will pledge undying faith and will not question the stories that support their narrative. '
The depts of despair is all I can describe what we went through.
I know that women also mention that having full bodily autonomy in maternity care is also an issue related to the 8th. That interventions are carried out against their will.
I didn't want my birth to go the way it did, my baby was being born earlier than I wanted and fear and panic took over for me. If intervening in the way they did to save both my life and my childs then yes the 8th saved him. I didn't want the level of intervention I received but we are here.

Until you hear a doctor telling you that your baby has no chance of life, that death is certain that termination would be easier on you, that you can try again -all while not being able to do anything about it then you can tell me that I'm wrong.

The biggest travesty of these issues are public couselling waiting lists meant I suffered immensely because of it...... or maybe I didn't shout the loudest.

Leaving this thread now before I'm asked to produce my CVS and Amniocenthese reports

This was the reasonn given to me.

lazygal

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

How come the tests can't be done here? Why do they have to be sent to a UK lab? That's pretty poor maternity care that we have to send results abroad isn't it?

The tests which are processed abroad are the harmony/panorama tests. I guess there isn't the critical mass here to warrant a lab doing them as they are done privately on request and not routinely offered on the public maternity care system. I understand even in the UK where they are more routine some are sent to the US for processing as its quicker than a UK lab.
More info here: http://www.merrionfetalhealth.ie/harmony-prenatal-test/
I actually got the results more quickly than other tests which were processed by the lab in Holles Street. The website says two weeks but my results came back within six days.

Hannibal_Smith

DubInMeath wrote: »

This was the reasonn given to me.

Ah...thanks I totally missed that post.

I'm not aware that there are medical interventions associated with the 8th?

applehunter

@ seamus

See 4 example below from Mayfield in Cork.









There were 2 more posters given the same treatment up the road but it was lashing rain at that stage.

lazygal

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Ah...thanks I totally missed that post.

I'm not aware that there are medical interventions associated with the 8th?

There aren't specific interventions, but the HSE has made it clear that informed consent doesn't apply to pregnant people because of the eighth amendment. Women have been taken to court because they've refused a c section and doctors want to override that.

Hannibal_Smith

lazygal wrote: »

The tests which are processed abroad are the harmony/panorama tests. I guess there isn't the critical mass here to warrant a lab doing them as they are done privately on request and not routinely offered on the public maternity care system. I understand even in the UK where they are more routine some are sent to the US for processing as its quicker than a UK lab.
More info here: http://www.merrionfetalhealth.ie/harmony-prenatal-test/
I actually got the results more quickly than other tests which were processed by the lab in Holles Street. The website says two weeks but my results came back within six days.

Ah ok. That makes sense. I thought we were sending standard tests over to the UK

erica74

smokingman wrote: »

So according to the love both crowd, rapists are the good guys and it's women that should be punished because....er...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/abortion-referendum/victims-of-rape-and-incest-should-carry-babies-to-full-term-say-campaigners-1.3444429?mode=amp

This makes me so angry.

petalgumdrops

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Still wondering how the 8th managed to save your child's life. From your posts even news of FFA did not influence your decision to carry to term as is your right.

Sorry? So if I told you I got pregnant by accident and was forced to travel to london I.Would be more deserving of telling you the 8th had an affect on me?

How can you dare speculate on whether I wanted to carry to term or not? Whether I had the means to travel or not or whether I even had the physical ability to travel. Would love to see you question a woman who "could" travel. Please don't even respond to me again.

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Ah...thanks I totally missed that post.

I'm not aware that there are medical interventions associated with the 8th?

I also edited the post to include the posters first reply to me as for some reason, most likely my old tablet can't handle multi-quotes at times

Link to post https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106721002&postcount=4725

lazygal

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Ah ok. That makes sense. I thought we were sending standard tests over to the UK

No, but like I said tests done and processed here took longer sometimes!