The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

lazygal

January wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/NursepollyRgn/status/985280763942916096

Again with the lying... She's a minor so won't be naming her here either but they seriously need to stop.

I Hope she stops lying.

Annasopra

applehunter wrote: »

Who are the YES going to put forward for debates?
.

I would imagine
Ailbhe Smyth, Grainne Griffin, Orla O'Connor, Simon Harris would be the main ones and then you would have lots of others; Ivana Bacik, Una Mullally, Josepha Madigan, Lynn Ruane, Jan O'Sullivan, Brid Smyth, Clare Daly, TFMR campaigners, Niall Behan, Mary Lou McDonald, Catherine McGuinness, Peter Boylan, Rhona Mahony.

petalgumdrops

lazygal wrote: »

I don't understand why a doctor in Crumlim got involved. All Dublin maternity hospitals have experts in foetal medicine who are involved in cases where possible or probable abnormalities are identified.
And the eighth amendment saves no babies, FFA or otherwise. My decisions regarding my babies were what "saved" them.

I wasn't going to bother repying to you but seen as you insist on reading what you choose I'll try to dumb it down for you. Horse burger put a link from Dr. P McPartland that will explain the process of diagnosis a little better as you seem you seem to think you have all the answers.

Q... "Why would a doctor in Crumlin get involved?"
because they have a consultant there that specilalises in genetic counselling. Seems quite a normal process.

lazygal

petalgumdrops wrote: »

I wasn't going to bother repying to you but seen as you insist on reading what you choose I'll try to dumb it down for you. Horse burger put a link from Dr. P McPartland that will explain the process of diagnosis a little better as you seem you seem to think you have all the answers.

Q... "Why would a doctor in Crumlin get involved?"
because they have a consultant there that specilalises in genetic counselling. Seems quite a normal process.

Can you provide a timeline of events in your pregnancy?
It's difficult to understand why you had a non routine anatomy scan at 12 weeks. And which tests you had which were sent to a lab in the UK which contacted you directly.
If this is your story you've chosen to share, why do you need to link to someone else's post? Why can't your own story be clarified?

Annasopra

RobertKK wrote: »

The Gardai are investigating after lots of No posters were illegally taken down.

The esb took a lot down for safety reasons. Councils took a lot down because the posters were illegal.

B0jangles

In my own local area , the Tidy Towns organizations have asked both campaigns not to put up posters.

Guess which campaign did as they were asked?

Guess which campaign ignored the request and is putting up posters anyway?

http://wicklownews.net/2018/04/tidy-towns-groups-are-asking-for-posters-not-to-be-erected-during-referendum-campaign/
http://wicklownews.net/2018/04/south-wicklow-together-for-yes-to-support-tidy-towns-will-not-erect-posters-in-towns-around-wicklow-county/

NuMarvel

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That poster looks illegal. No printer/publisher name.

I'm guessing it's in the very small print in the top right hand corner.

BabyCheeses

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe the shadowbanning on twitter of pro-lives of the mother and unborn baby accounts is helping to block out people seeing the illegal activity.
There is evidence of twitter helping the repeal side.
Just as the government is with Leo Varadkar telling people to fund the yes side, organisations who get tax payers money openly supporting the yes side. Inclusion Ireland who get near all their money from taxpayers were the latest who want to exclude the unborn life.

I have seen plenty of pictures on twitter, but I follow numerous accounts which are shadow banned.

Is that from another theliberal article?

I hear there are gangs going around beating up people canvassing for repeal. You haven't heard it because it's being censored.

Annasopra

NuMarvel wrote: »

I'm guessing it's in the very small print in the top right hand corner.

Sorry yes. That one looks ok. A lot of love both posters that I have seen appear to be illegal.

B0jangles

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Is that from another theliberal article?

I hear there are gangs going around beating up people canvassing for repeal. You haven't heard it because it's being censored.

Well I heard gangs of burly nuns armed with bicycle chains disguised as rosaries are openly attacking repeal canvassers and shouting at them to say their prayers :mad:

petalgumdrops

volchitsa wrote: »

See here's the thing (one of them anyway), you seem to be claiming that you were in direct contact with a London lab that advised you differently from your own doctor in Dublin. Are you really saying that a lab technician told you to terminate your pregnancy, or do you mean you contacted a doctor in the UK after (or before??) the doctors in Ireland gave you this diagnosis, and if so, did the UK doctors really advise you to terminate without a consultation and before a placenta mosaic had been ruled out?
That's not been my experience of antenatal testing.

Please go back and actually state at what point I said a Lab called me? Fetal Medicine consultants spoke with me after labs processed my CVS.

If you bother to actually inform yourself insted of spouting crap and disputing/twisting everything I said.

pjohnson

B0jangles wrote: »

Well I heard gangs of burly nuns armed with bicycle chains disguised as rosaries are openly attacking repeal canvassers and shouting at them to say their prayers :mad:

Wait till you see the lay people with the flamethrowers saying they will burn for eternity.

lazygal

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Please go back and actually state at what point I said a Lab called me? Fetal Medicine consultants spoke with me after labs processed my CVS.

If you bother to actually inform yourself insted of spouting crap and disputing/twisting everything I said.

Who told you to have a termination?

volchitsa

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Please go back and actually state at what point I said a Lab called me? Fetal Medicine consultants spoke with me after labs processed my CVS.

If you bother to actually inform yourself insted of spouting crap and disputing/twisting everything I said.

Look I'm sorry if you feel you've said enough to be believed, but to be blunt, you chose to share your story not just as personal experience, but as an illustration of why the 8th needs to stay.

That's a big claim to make, so it's not unreasonable for people to expect you to spell out how exactly that makes sense, because so far what you've said doesn't show any such thing.

lazygal

volchitsa wrote: »

Look I'm sorry if you feel you've said enough to be believed, but to be blunt, you chose to share your story not just as personal experience, but as an illustration of why the 8th needs to stay.

That's a big claim to make, so it's not unreasonable for people to expect you to spell out how exactly that makes sense, because so far what you've said doesn't show any such thing.

I'm extremely unclear as to why testing initially took place, and the timeline thereafter. And how the eighth amendment, rather than a personal decision, stopped anyone having a termination in this case.

B0jangles

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Please go back and actually state at what point I said a Lab called me? Fetal Medicine consultants spoke with me after labs processed my CVS.

If you bother to actually inform yourself insted of spouting crap and disputing/twisting everything I said.

You know you could easily end all these misunderstandings if you'd just explain the basic timeline of what happened when.

Entirely your choice of course, but you did introduce your own experience as a justification for retaining the 8th. Personal experiences in which the 8th amendment can be 100% credited with a positive effect on a specific individual seem to be quite rare, so people are naturally interested in the specifics of how it helped you.

"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" as they say

pjohnson

I dont think theres much point asking. It just keeps changing while still not providing any reason HOW the 8th got involved.

groovyg

B0jangles wrote: »

In my own local area , the Tidy Towns organizations have asked both campaigns not to put up posters.

Guess which campaign did as they were asked?

Guess which campaign ignored the request and is putting up posters anyway?

http://wicklownews.net/2018/04/tidy-towns-groups-are-asking-for-posters-not-to-be-erected-during-referendum-campaign/
http://wicklownews.net/2018/04/south-wicklow-together-for-yes-to-support-tidy-towns-will-not-erect-posters-in-towns-around-wicklow-county/

Same in Cobh as well ..one side went ahead and put up posters. When somebody pointed it out they received abuse.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kencurtin/status/985150931913314304

Sofiztikated

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Please go back and read my story John. My lab results were done in England. They have phones they can contact me without me physically being there. My story was clinically interesting based on its rarity

This suggests the lab contacted you.

erica74

Just passed an antichoice poster outside Kilmeaden in Waterford, anyone who knows the area will know of the very large posters (you could nearly call them billboards, they're HUGE) attached to a trailer near the roundabout, going on for the last 2-3 years now.
The one up now has a picture of a foetus with the words "11 weeks, one of us". It made me laugh. Do you antichoice people have any idea how stupid these posters are?
We are Borg, your biological distinctiveness will be added to our own, resistance is futile:pac: THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT YOU ANTICHOICE PEOPLE WANT:pac:

B0jangles

erica74 wrote: »

Just passed an antichoice poster outside Kilmeaden in Waterford, anyone who knows the area will know of the very large posters (you could nearly call them billboards, they're HUGE) attached to a trailer near the roundabout, going on for the last 2-3 years now.
The one up now has a picture of a foetus with the words "11 weeks, one of us". It made me laugh. Do you antichoice people have any idea how stupid these posters are?
We are Borg, your biological distinctiveness will be added to our own, resistance is futile:pac: THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT YOU ANTICHOICE PEOPLE WANT:pac:

I saw that slogan too - can they really not heard how much like a cult chant "ONE OF US" sounds?

pjohnson

erica74 wrote: »

Just passed an antichoice poster outside Kilmeaden in Waterford, anyone who knows the area will know of the very large posters (you could nearly call them billboards, they're HUGE) attached to a trailer near the roundabout, going on for the last 2-3 years now.
The one up now has a picture of a foetus with the words "11 weeks, one of us". It made me laugh. Do you antichoice people have any idea how stupid these posters are?
We are Borg, your biological distinctiveness will be added to our own, resistance is futile:pac: THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT YOU ANTICHOICE PEOPLE WANT:pac:

Only until they are born. Once they are born they dont care.

lazygal

B0jangles wrote: »

You know you could easily end all these misunderstandings if you'd just explain the basic timeline of what happened when.

Entirely your choice of course, but you did introduce your own experience as a justification for retaining the 8th. Personal experiences in which the 8th amendment can be 100% credited with a positive effect on a specific individual seem to be quite rare, so people are naturally interested in the specifics of how it helped you.

"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" as they say

Here's my timeline.
Positive test at 3 three weeks.:D
First appointment with consultant at 9 weeks, all good, confirmed one viable foetus. Recommended harmony testing base on age and medical history. Bit of and
Harmony test at 13 weeks approx. Involved very, very detailed scans and bloods, which were sent to a UK lab for analysis. Again bit of and
Result arrived a week later and consultant called to discuss them. Possible FFA based on results. Recommended amniocentesis which is 100% conclusive so we would have all the information. Lot of :(:(
Amniocentesis at almost 17 weeks. Results processed in house, takes a few days. Consultant calls with results.
Then we decide how to proceed with the pregnancy.
Hope that's pretty clear. And nothing in the eighth amendment 'saved' anything.

gandalf

pjohnson wrote: »

Only until they are born. Once they are born they dont care.

Yep that's the forced birth brigade alright, love both me arse.

mackeminexile

RobertKK wrote: »

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

What a load of old cobblers.

You can say that, but you bring no evidence to back up your cobblers. Europe has low birth rates and abortion has a negative impact on European society.

Where is your evidence then?

Ave Sodalis

petalgumdrops wrote: »

If you bother to actually inform yourself insted of spouting crap and disputing/twisting everything I said.

Were you not twisting everything a few pages back? Bit hypocritical, no?

I have no idea why you think it's okay to be so condescending and sneery to people. Your story doesn't make any sense the way it is. Posters reading it over again is not going to change this. Posters are asking you to phrase it in a way that makes sense so we can understand where you are coming from. You phrased it badly so it doesn't make much sense regarding your claim about the 8th, nobody can see the link between, and speaking to people the way you are is uncalled for.

lazygal

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Were you not twisting everything a few pages back? Bit hypocritical, no?

I have no idea why you think it's okay to be so condescending and sneery to people. Your story doesn't make any sense the way it is. Posters reading it over again is not going to change this. Posters are asking you to phrase it in a way that makes sense so we can understand where you are coming from. You phrased it badly so it doesn't make much sense regarding your claim about the 8th, nobody can see the link between, and speaking to people the way you are is uncalled for.

Having gone through what this poster supposedly has recently enough, I can't understand the timeline of events at all, starting with why an anatomy scan at 12 weeks was clinically indicated and going right through to why a doctor in Crumlin got involved in the case. It doesn't tarry with any of the non invasive and invasive testing I and others have had during pregnancy.

NuMarvel

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Please go back and actually state at what point I said a Lab called me? Fetal Medicine consultants spoke with me after labs processed my CVS.

Some of your previous posts have suggested it was the lab that that contacted you, not doctors.

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Please go back and read my story John. My lab results were done in England. They have phones they can contact me without me physically being there. My story was clinically interesting based on its rarity

petalgumdrops wrote: »

January I think I actually spoke.privately to you about this in the pregnancy forum 2 years ago when it was diagnosed.

Intially something was detected as being not right at 12 week scan. High NT, shortening of nasal bone which they said could suggest DS.
CVS FISH result for 12, 18, 21 came back clear but was called in and told Trisomy (ill pm you the number as my case is only one of 11 so it will identify me) confirmed on CVS. So rare that they couldn't tell impact except it was very bad. Fetal medicine in london lab suggested termination. Geneticist in crumlin took on my case and for complete clarity an amino was done but as with how rare the case was I would have to wait weeks rather than the 10/12 days some people waited. Waiting period between results of CVS and Amnio was obviously horrific as I needed to ne at least 15/16 weeks for amnio.

You might remember talking to me before

However, we now have clarity that it was a doctor who contacted you. I'm still a little surprised that the doctors in the UK spoke to you directly rather than to your obstetrician here. But I'm finding the timeline a little hard to follow so you may have addressed that in other posts.

petalgumdrops

lazygal wrote: »

Can you provide a timeline of events in your pregnancy?
It's difficult to understand why you had a non routine anatomy scan at 12 weeks. And which tests you had which were sent to a lab in the UK which contacted you directly.
If this is your story you've chosen to share, why do you need to link to someone else's post? Why can't your own story be clarified?

Have you any idea of the process of ffa diagnosis? As stated numerous times at an early scan something not right detected, did as much of a anomaly scan as possible based on the fact I was only 12 weeks. (Hence why I said early) Heart and some internal organs not able to be assessed. (Would need to check them at 18+weeks)

Probability given based on above. CVS performed. Rare trisomy found. Contact with fetal medicine here and in England (neither country had every come across a full case Trisomy of my dianosis) genetic counselling with geneticist in Crumlin. Contact with FM and geneticist here suggested Amnio- England recommending termination based on fact I would have to undergo the type of termination dr. Mcpartland spoke of when heart is stopped prior to induction of delivery - if I waited on amino results. Lab had no direct contact with me.

Every individual case is different on diagnosis. How dare you suggest my story is not as is because it doesn't suit you. so please jog on and take your comments elsewhere.

lazygal

petalgumdrops wrote: »

Have you any idea of the process of ffa diagnosis? As stated numerous times at an early scan something not right detected, did as much of a anomaly scan as possible based on the fact I was only 12 weeks. (Hence why I said early) Heart and some internal organs not able to be assessed. (Would need to check them at 18+weeks)

Probability given based on above. CVS performed. Rare trisomy found. Contact with fetal medicine here and in England (neither country had every come across a full case Trisomy of my dianosis) genetic counselling with geneticist in Crumlin. Contact with FM and geneticist here suggested Amnio- England recommending termination based on fact I would have to undergo the type of termination dr. Mcpartland spoke of when heart is stopped prior to induction of delivery - if I waited on amino results. Lab had no direct contact with me.

Every individual case is different on diagnosis. How dare you suggest my story is not as is because it doesn't suit you. so please jog on and take your comments elsewhere.

Yes I do. I had an anatomy scan at 12 weeks in Holles Street not long ago. Very detailed, very lengthy. Then bloods for harmony testing, the results sent to my consultant who recommended amnio. All handled in Holles Street, no lab contacted me. You seemed to suggest a lab had a phone to contact you, not sure why you need to mention this at all if no one in the lab or anyone in the UK had direct contact with you.

Anyway, this is no way proves that the eighth amendment saved your baby. You, as I did, made decisions based on the information provided to us and personal circumstances. The eighth amendment only restricts the choices of those who want to travel but cannot do so.