P2P Lending

mike_cork

Mintos just sent out an email:
We would like to inform you that Mintos has suspended automatic repayments and buybacks for loans originated by Aforti Finance on our marketplace (EUR and PLN).
The decision was made based on Aforti Finance’s overdue transfers of borrower’s payments to the Mintos marketplace.


In order to protect the interests of our investors, all loans issued by Aforti Finance have been removed from the primary and secondary markets of the Mintos marketplace. This means you cannot buy or sell Aforti Finance loans, effective immediately until further notice.


We are in contact with Aforti Finance and are closely monitoring the situation. We will keep you informed of any updates.


Your Mintos Team

Also seen this on twitter (statement from the polish Financial Supervision Authority)
https://seep2p.com/2019/08/07/aforti-warning/

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

The viventor website has ground to a halt. I managed to increase the discount on the few Aforti loans I have though. Took about 20 mins of refreshing the page.

Discounts of up to 18% on Aforti loans available at the moment on the secondary market

mike_cork

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

The viventor website has ground to a halt. I managed to increase the discount on the few Aforti loans I have though. Took about 20 mins of refreshing the page.

Discounts of up to 18% on Aforti loans available at the moment on the secondary market

Should we count any money in Aforti as a right off?
I calculated .782% of my p2p money is in Aforti.

I read on a blog somewhere that Mintos have a meeting with the Aforti CEO tomorrow in Warsaw

mike_cork

https://www.p2p-banking.com/countries/baltic-two-issues-currently-evolving-on-p2p-lending-marketplaces/

P2P banking have an update from 4.02 PM today from the Aforti CEO:
Dear Sir,

In response to the questions regarding the message released by Viventor, we would like to inform you following.

We are currently at the stage of closing cooperation with the Viventor platform, what has been announced to Viventor. Situation suggested by Viventor is a result of change in Aforti Finance S.A business strategy. Our decision is determined by technical difficulties in cooperation with Viventor platform. Also cause most workload has to be done manually, our operational risk increased significantly. This is what we want to avoid, cause AFORTI business model and operational procedures are going rather in the direction of using API to automatize processes and to minimize human errors.

It’s also worth to add, that we have not been using Viventor platform for new loans for about two last months, as a result of mentioned above decision. Of course Viventor receives daily financial transfers, so we do not see any reason for such a message.

Due to the fact that for tomorrow (Thursday, August the 8th ) we have scheduled a meeting with the Viventor, we believe all misunderstandings will be clarified.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I don't have any Aforti loans on Mintos.

I do not want to take the chance of losing all funds invested in Aforti loans, so I put what I had in Viventor on the secondary market with a hefty 10 to 20% discount. Half are gone already. Small money in the grand scheme of things, so not worried. Happy to lose up to 20%, rather than the alternative.

Edit: At least loans are selling on the SM on Viventor. If you have Aforti loans on Mintos, you're stuck in limbo.

vargoo

So, they were doing cash business that they are not licensed for and they pay back money "by hand" and they want to automate it but ran into difficulties...

And they're gone off viventor.....

Surprised if not another Eurocent.

All money gone, an odd update for 18 months then radio silence.

Mintos won't give a fiddlers...

vargoo

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

The viventor website has ground to a halt. I managed to increase the discount on the few Aforti loans I have though. Took about 20 mins of refreshing the page.

Discounts of up to 18% on Aforti loans available at the moment on the secondary market

What interest rate were the Aforti loans?

retalivity

Ive about 3% in Aforti, loans were between 10.5% - 11.5%.
Looking at my Aforti loans, they have all had some money paid back on them, some have only days and a few cents left to be repaid, 2 are from today that must have been picked up by the auto-invest before they were suspended

littlevillage

vargoo wrote: »

Mintos won't give a fiddlers...

Well, thats not strictly true... and I hope Mintos is paying close attention cause if Aforti join Eurocent and defaults....it looks bad for Mintos.

The question to is what kind of screening is Mintos doing on these Originators and why are Mintos even listing these chancers on their marketplace if there's a possibility of exposing investors to risk.

Not affected myself, thankfully. No Aforti loans at present, but I did have in the past.

vargoo

littlevillage wrote: »

Well, thats not strictly true... and I hope Mintos is paying close attention cause if Aforti join Eurocent and defaults....it looks bad for Mintos.

The question to is what kind of screening is Mintos doing on these Originators and why are Mintos even listing these chancers on their marketplace if there's a possibility of exposing investors to risk.

Not affected myself, thankfully. No Aforti loans at present, but I did have in the past.

They put a brand new C+ rated Ukrainian lender on their today. The last one was so bad I wouldn't even consider putting money in.

They don't want you to lose, they make money all going well, BUT they dont care if you do.


They deserve a user smackdown this time. They got away with Eurocent, taking the piss with the site all year and now this dodgy looking dealings from an unaudited company.

Audits should be compulsory to get on the platform even if it is by some unknown company.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

A mixture of 12, 12.5, 14 and 16%. Thankfully, most of my Aforti loans have been bought now.

vargoo wrote: »

What interest rate were the Aforti loans?

scheister

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

A mixture of 12, 12.5, 14 and 16%. Thankfully, most of my Aforti loans have been bought now.

I have two loans with Aforti and around €11 outstanding so not to worried. I had a look at the two loans. One was up to date no late payments from 12 with next payment due next week. The other last two payments not made and 11 of the 12 payments that were made were late.

mike_cork

Aforti down 5% in trading this morning on the Polish stock exchange.
https://www.bankier.pl/inwestowanie/profile/quote.html?symbol=AFHOL

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Email from viventor this morning. "Repayments on hold of loan originators Aforti Factor and Aforti Finance."

mike_cork

Maybe im being naive, but i still think theres a chance investors may get at least some of their Aforti investments back.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

If I had funds available, I would have it ready in Viventor in case the Afroti issue gets resolved. If a favourable announcement is made, you could bag yourself 15-20% discounts on their loans.

mike_cork

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

If I had funds available, I would have it ready in Viventor in case the Afroti issue gets resolved. If a favourable announcement is made, you could bag yourself 15-20% discounts on their loans.

Aforti's share price started climbing around 11AM and is currently in the green and up 1.89%
Suggests there *maybe* good news to come out

mike_cork

Email from Mintos:

Yesterday we had a meeting with Aforti Finance management in Warsaw, Poland, during which we discussed the situation and what are the next steps for Aforti Finance to resume transferring borrower repayments.


We remain dedicated to protecting our investors on the Mintos marketplace. According to assignment agreements, we distribute to investors borrower repayments which we receive from the loan originators. Aforti Finance has been late in transferring some of the borrower repayments to us and thus we had to suspend crediting investor accounts. Current total outstanding portfolio by Aforti Finance on the Mintos marketplace is EUR 2 236 123. In total 21,896 investors have an outstanding investment in loans originated by Aforti Finance, which translates to slightly more than EUR 100 on average per investor.


Investors still hold claims towards the end borrowers who make their payments to Aforti Finance, and we expect Aforti Finance to get back on track with passing borrower repayments to us for distributing among investors. As of today, 57.3% of loans originated by Aforti Finance that are outstanding on the Mintos marketplace are current, 24.9% are late by 1-15 days, 10.1% are late by 16-30 days, and 7.7% of loans are late by 31-60 days. We are working with the management of Aforti Finance to ensure borrower repayments of loans continue flowing to investors.


We will keep you informed and will share an update early next week.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

At least Mintos appear to have learned a lesson from Eurocent and the lack of communication. I guess we'll know for sure over the next few weeks.

I have about 150 EUR left in Aforti loans on Viventor now. Hopefully they can get back on track with repayments.

mike_cork

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Email from viventor this morning. "Repayments on hold of loan originators Aforti Factor and Aforti Finance."

Share price still holding strong this morn for Aforti which hopefully is a good sign.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

A poster on the p2pindependentforum.com forum posted that the Aforti group will guarantee Aforti loans on Mintos. I cannot confirm that information. Does anyone else have any more on that, perhaps a link to a statement from Afroti Group? Sounds like a positive move but would like to see confirmation before I believe it.

P2PBanking.com

Update by Viventor
https://www.p2p-banking.com/countries/baltic-two-issues-currently-evolving-on-p2p-lending-marketplaces/

mike_cork

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

A poster on the p2pindependentforum.com forum posted that the Aforti group will guarantee Aforti loans on Mintos. I cannot confirm that information. Does anyone else have any more on that, perhaps a link to a statement from Afroti Group? Sounds like a positive move but would like to see confirmation before I believe it.

I see on twitter that this account (seep2p.com) has posted the following in the last few hours:
"There is a new update from Mintos regarding Aforti. In short payments on outstanding loans will resume."

Daddy Ireland

Can people give their opinions on the following:

The top current 4 safest platforms that offer buyback guarantees/buyback funds, that offer short term loans less than 12 months, that have little or no loan defaults and that offer auto invest.. I am a lot more concerned with a platform going bust than an odd loan originator going bust when one has their monies widely diversified.

Aside from all this my research leads me to think a mix of Mintos, Grupeer, Crowdester, Envestio and Rabocash are likely to make some of your lists. I have a lot of research still to do but a lot of my research thus far is around the 15 bloggers picks on investing 10k as posted earlier.

Daddy Ireland

Also, I see some institutions are getting involved in p2p platforms but only in platforms that provide great credit quality, strong net returns and have good liquidity. So following on from my last post and my real concern being the platforms safety can anyone identify these requisites and name top four european platforms that possess all of these characteristics.

vargoo

Daddy Ireland wrote: »

Can people give their opinions on the following:

The top current 4 safest platforms that offer buyback guarantees/buyback funds, that offer short term loans less than 12 months, that have little or no loan defaults and that offer auto invest.. I am a lot more concerned with a platform going bust than an odd loan originator going bust when one has their monies widely diversified.

Aside from all this my research leads me to think a mix of Mintos, Grupeer, Crowdester, Envestio and Rabocash are likely to make some of your lists. I have a lot of research still to do but a lot of my research thus far is around the 15 bloggers picks on investing 10k as posted earlier.

Moose posted most of the main financials awhile back. Most companies barely break even (Mintos included) are loss making/have never made money in years or made up their own figures, so you're relying on the group owner to not let it sink at some stage...ie no protection whatsoever. So you're looking for pics of the owners then and fintech conferences.

At least 1 on your list has a wickedly convoluted structure if you dig abit into it.

The way some of these companies change bank accounts (2/3 times a year) is enough to make ya wonder wtf am I missing.

Don't be so quick to write off an originator going down. Aforti would (still might) have been enough to put anyone with money in it at a loss for the year at least especially if you were chasing %.


Unless you're putting in over 10,000g

vargoo

Daddy Ireland wrote: »

Also, I see some institutions are getting involved in p2p platforms

Where do you see that?

Daddy Ireland

vargoo wrote: »

Where do you see that?

Try Google Institutional Interest in P2P continues unabated in 2019

Daddy Ireland

vargoo wrote: »

Moose posted most of the main financials awhile back. Most companies barely break even (Mintos included) are loss making/have never made money in years or made up their own figures, so you're relying on the group owner to not let it sink at some stage...ie no protection whatsoever. So you're looking for pics of the owners then and fintech conferences.

At least 1 on your list has a wickedly convoluted structure if you dig abit into it.

The way some of these companies change bank accounts (2/3 times a year) is enough to make ya wonder wtf am I missing.

Don't be so quick to write off an originator going down. Aforti would (still might) have been enough to put anyone with money in it at a loss for the year at least especially if you were chasing %.


Unless you're putting in over 10,000g

Thanks Vargoo. When you put it all like that it's scary reading.

vargoo

mike_cork wrote: »

Aforti's share price started climbing around 11AM and is currently in the green and up 1.89%
Suggests there *maybe* good news to come out

Aforti management owned 96% of shares apparently.

The 4% probably bailed now management own 100%.