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P2P Lending

  • 13-03-2018 9:47am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    A few of you have been in the p2p scene a few years now. Have you any thoughts on your p2p platforms of choice?

    Mintos appears to be leading the way at the moment, in terms of volume of loans available and value of loans funded/available. Are Twino and Bondora still getting a look in?

    I felt I was too heavily invested in Mintos so I have tried a few newer platforms recently. Lenndy, RoboCash, DoFinance, Grupeer and ViaInvest. Only small money to begin. The only platform where my funds have yet to be invested is Lenndy. I try to stick to platforms that have a buyback type guarantee.

    Does anyone else have any recommendations or thoughts on how p2p will evolve this year?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    Hi,

    Can I just throw in a couple of things for people to think about here, when discussing the various platforms please ?
    • is there a currency risk involved (most likely yes, if you are investing on platforms that are not in the Eurozone) ?
    • are the P2P platforms regulated (I don't think it's possible to be regulated in Ireland, but I think it is in the UK for example) ?
    • how is the underlying economy doing, or likely to do over the next 2-3 years, in the country where you are considering investing (if it's struggling, or you think it's going to struggle (the UK post BREXIT perhaps ?), then you need to consider the potential for more loans defaulting in that country as a result) ?

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    Lenndy is painfully slow at adding new loans to their platform. I am only seeing a handful added every second day. Most of my funds are not invested. Will leave it another couple of weeks.

    @garrettod, how are you getting on with grid finance?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    ....@garrettod, how are you getting on with grid finance?

    Hi,

    Overall, I'm fairly happy.

    The absence of financial information remains, but given the only financial information that seems to be provided by competitors is historic, it's not a massive issue for me.

    There seems to be a fairly continuous flow of new loans available, albeit many of them are for small amounts and the quality of the borrower varies quite a bit. Right now, there are 4-5 loans on offer.

    My loan arrears are close to zero and when a payment is missed, I get regular updates (although it should be stressed that these have only been early stage arrears, that were usually brought up to date quite quickly).

    I've had little reason to contact Grid, but the couple of times I have, they've been responsive and more than willing to engage.

    I really like their system where you can make a loan offer and set your own loan rate, then later being able to edit it, if you wish.

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    Very few new loans (with buyback) appearing on Twino in the last few weeks. Frustrating to see funds not invested. I tweaked my auto invest portfolio and I am still seeing funds not invested.

    Viainvest is going well. I am trying to stick to short term loans with buyback. I am seeing some cash drag also. The number of steps required to manually invest in one loan is just crazy. The loans filter is pretty poor too. The website needs work when you compare it to the likes of Mintos.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭ scheister


    I have looked at a few of them to date

    LinkedFinance was better pre autobid dont look the way the site is going

    Grid I have used but due to lack of loans i went elsewhere. I understand this is getting better so i may venture back

    Mintos. I like the auto bid function mixed with buyback loans makes its fairly risklyfree. The campaigns recently are nice but for the money im investing would not be a deciding factor

    Robocash is the last one i have gone into i like the site nice to see the accured interest building before it is paid. Similar to Mintos the autobid/buyback loans is a nice feature. the fact bank transfer is only way in slows down a little. if you want to see how a site should do contract between us and then person getting the robocash is the way to go

    Have not tried any of the other sites


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭ Cute Hoor


    Platforms like Linked and Grid are providing a useful service imo, linking lenders to businesses needing a loan, cutting out the middle man (the Bank), businesses may be using LF & Grid for a variety of reasons, don't qualify for credit from the bank, getting a bank loan is cumbersome and slow, or they may also want to connect with a new tranche of customers. Whatever the reason, if LF and Grid are doing their business properly, these should be legit loans to reputable businesses, and generally speaking this works reasonably well.

    From what I can see, RoboCash is a moneylending (some might say loan sharking) intermediary, you are effectively providing funding for unfortunate people who have no credit rating, and who cannot get a loan from any financial institution. This credit is provided at outrageously exorbitant rates and one shudders to think what happens if repayments cannot be met. Had a look at one of their originators, Prestamer, a €100 loan will cost €162 repaid over 20 days, horrendous interest rates, imo these people prey on the most vulnerable in society. Here reputable organisations like MABS and the Credit Union movement are doing their best to steer vulnerable people away from the likes of these. I may be wrong (and apologies if I am) but from a cursory look that appears to be their modus operandi. Haven't looked closely at Mintos but I see they also deal with a lot of loan originators so I would be suspicious.

    Edit: While having a quick goo at the Mintos website now, I came across Capitalia (one of the originators on Mintos), seem to be a reasonable option, I've no experience of them though obviously. Registered with them just to have a look, no projects available for funding now, they will advise by email when investment opportunities become available.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    Looking at my Robo.cash portfolio this morning. Approx 50% of the loans are now overdue. All loans have buyback, which kicks in after 30 days.
    Anyone else seeing similar with their robo investments?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭ scheister


    Looking at my Robo.cash portfolio this morning. Approx 50% of the loans are now overdue. All loans have buyback, which kicks in after 30 days.
    Anyone else seeing similar with their robo investments?

    Hi Clara Sparse Windbreak what happened with these loans. I'm noticing the loan are gone bad lately. Any loan that was due to be paid in last 46 days has not been paid. If this is becoming a factor im likely to move my money elsewhere


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    65% of my robo.cash loans are now overdue. I fired them an email.

    Their buyback kicks in after 30 days and they should buyback any late loans on day 31. Both the principal and interest. I have sent them a query relating to the interest part. Do they only pay interest on the initial term, or do they include the 30 days the loan is overdue? I am not sure and it's not clear.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    Has anyone any experience with Swaper? Looking for feedback on this platform.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭ scheister


    From online chat with robo cash this mornin

    10:25
    Hi just wondering about interest. do i just get interest on the 30 days or on the overdue period as well

    10:26
    Hello!
    Investor gets his or her income for the days of loan overdue as well.
    If you have more questions, we are glad to help!

    10:29
    thanks was wondering as alot of my loans appear to be overdue lately

    10:29
    You don't have to worry, since Robocash guarantees 100% buyback on the 31st day of loan overdue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    Thanks for that. It may be the case that they are slow at updating their own system with the status of the loans? A few of the P2P sites can be slow at updating loan status. Most of my loans hit the 30 days early next week. So I'll have a better idea next week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭ brianomc


    Has anyone any experience with Swaper? Looking for feedback on this platform.

    I tried it out for a few months but am withdrawing my money at the moment. My money was just sitting there not getting invested. When it did it quickly went to 75% of investments being late. These are covered by a buyback guarantee and you do get accrued interest while they are late.

    You also get an extra 2 percent interest if you have €5000 in your account which is a nice idea.

    Withdrawals were very quick, usually processed within an hour or 2 by Swaper and in my bank account the same day so I can't fault them on that.


    I have found Twino have improved their available loans significantly lately, but the auto-invest is a bit rubbish so I have been manually logging in daily. Some days I would 2 or 3 notifications of auto investing having happened, other days none, despite fulfilling the criteria and there bring loans available.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    A lot of cash drag with Grupeer and Lenndy. Over half my funds not invested for over a month now. I only see a handful of new loans each week. Disappointed with both.

    PeerBerry is a relatively new entrant, launched in Nov 2017. Most loans available are listed from Aventus group, which originally listed their loans on Mintos. Website is very good. Filters need some work. No sort function, which is a right PITA. Funds were invested within minutes of activating my autoinvest portfolio. Plenty of loan availability. Interest rates are 12%, mostly (if not all) are short term up to 30 day loans. Loan countries are from Poland and Czech Republic.

    Robo.cash, I received a similar response to scheister. "do not worry, etc". The number of late loans have dropped to ~40%.

    Swaper is interesting. I cannot seem to figure out how to get the auto invest to work. I did email Swaper and got an interesting response on how their auto invest algorithm works. I ended up having to invest manually. Loans appear to be listed a few times each day. All loans are short term with a 12% rate but you can get 14% if you invest 5k or more. The auto investment profiles allow you to set a min/max rate but all loans are set at 12%, so that filter option is a bit useless at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭ scheister


    Revenue has just released the following e-brief on the taxation of peer to peer finance https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-08/08-03-05.pdf

    Main point i get from this is in the case of Irish sites linkedfinance and grid they should be withholding 20% from Irish investors similar to what is done with dividends


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    If anyone is using Grupeer, they have just added an autoinvest option. Very limited autoinvest options available at the moment. You can only have one auto invest portfolio.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    I always seem to have cash drag of about 10% with Twino. There are plenty of loans when I search manually and that match might auto-invest criteria. Any else see the same issue?


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭ brianomc


    I always seem to have cash drag of about 10% with Twino. There are plenty of loans when I search manually and that match might auto-invest criteria. Any else see the same issue?

    The auto-invest is fairly rubbish imo on Twino. I do try to log in daily or every second day to make sure I am as invested as possible. When I click invest it even tells me that x amount of loans match my auto-invest setup, well go ahead and invest it then :mad:

    Other times I end up collecting scraps left behind, when there's less than €10 available on a particular loan so auto-invest can't kick in for anyone :rolleyes:

    But I am usually at 98-99% invested.

    Am currently trying out PeerBerry that you mentioned. I keep meaning to email them to ask to add a sort function. I don't have too many loans yet but if I do I like to sort by when they are due. But so far so good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭ brianomc


    brianomc wrote: »
    Am currently trying out PeerBerry that you mentioned. I keep meaning to email them to ask to add a sort function. I don't have too many loans yet but if I do I like to sort by when they are due. But so far so good.

    Emailed them last night, they fixed the 2 spelling mistakes on the "My Investments" page that I pointed out already, hopefully they work on the sorting option. It wouldn't be any harm in anyone else using the site sending them an email too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    What other p2p sites are you using brianomc?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭ brianomc


    Mintos is my main one, I just let auto invest do its thing but I need to work on these as 85% of my loans are to just 2 companies.

    Then Twino, and recently PeerBerry.

    I have a Swaper account but as I mentioned I am withdrawing from that, same with LinkedFinance due to poor returns and no guarantees, I liked the old bidding version where loans didn't fill up in seconds. They seem to be getting better chasing up defaulters so I might rethink withdrawing completely depending on how they get on with that.

    I am sticking to the sites with guarantees for now, although I do understand that the guarantee is never 100% if the site has troubles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭ brianomc


    PeerBerry replied to say that they are working on the sorting and hope to have it done soon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    AH that's great. I did email them last week asking if they would add a sort function and got a usual "it'll be added in the future" response.
    Swaper has no sort function either and they replied with similar email.

    Have you tried any of the other p2p sites with buybacks - viventor, dofinance, viainvest?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    DoFinance have recently lowered their interest rates to 5%, 7% and 9%. Used to be 6%, 8% and 12%.

    That is a significant hair cut on the higher rate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭ littlevillage


    DoFinance have recently lowered their interest rates to 5%, 7% and 9%. Used to be 6%, 8% and 12%.

    That is a significant hair cut on the higher rate.

    Interesting. I wonder is this in response to greater demand ....or an ass-saving exercise to cover higher defaults?

    According to the stats on

    https://www.p2p-banking.com/tag/loan-volume/

    DoFinance lending volume is pretty static at around €2Million per month. Soo it seems to suggest the rate decrease is to cover extra defaults.

    I got in for a 2nd traunche at 12% in March ...but when that matures, might not bother going for a 3rd time, at only 9%


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    Apparently the change in rates were detailed in their most recent newsletter. They've cut their rates by about a ~35% to borrowers, so they needed to cut their rates to investors. I spotted something yesterday about them changing how interest is paid on the new portfolios, now paid monthly I think?. I'll have to find it again.
    Do you have a copy of their last newsletter littlevillage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭ brianomc


    Have you tried any of the other p2p sites with buybacks - viventor, dofinance, viainvest?

    I haven't tried any of them no. I hadn't heard of dofinance or viainvest. I will have to look into them but I might build up my PeerBuddy investment first as it's a fairly small sum at the moment.

    Let us know if you try them and how they are please.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    A few recent thoughts and experiences...

    ViaInvest, I had some cash drag in the beginning but not seeing that in recent weeks. I have added a few small deposits and the auto invest worked pretty quickly. There is a mixture of 10, 11 and 12% loans available. I was only investing in short term loans (30 days) but I recently added a portfolio to pick up some longer term 6-12 month loans.
    Edit: A quick calculation - I am seeing a return of ~9.5% over the last 6 months.

    Swaper, I added some funds recently and the funds are still not fully invested. The auto-invest seems to be a little slow. I guess it comes down to the small volume of loans currently available. They appear to have around 1400 investors in total with total investments of 35 mil. I have tried to pick up loans manually but they rarely have any loans available for manually investment.

    Mintos, seem to have grown exponentially. They currently have 62k investors and total investments of 750 mil. New funds are invested within minutes of hitting my account. By far the best p2p platform I have used.
    Edit: I am seeing a return of ~13% over the last 6 months.

    RoboCash, the number of late loans has increased again. Currently about 60% late. I am not worried due to their buyback guarantee. I have noticed that I always have about 10% of my funds sitting in my investor balance (not invested).

    Viventor, have adverts splashing 14% returns. While you do get some 14%, most are 10.5% and 12%. I have noticed that new loans appear on the platform early in the morning 6-7am, in case anyone is looking to manually invest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Clara Sparse Windbreak


    It looks like this thread is turning into my blog. :p But I hope my tidbits of information might help others. I noticed very little discussion or recent information on the P2PIF forums.

    I fired off an email to RoboCash regarding the cash drag. They said they have a temporary decreased in new loans. They hope to have it 'solved' soon. Will keep a close eye on this one.

    PeerBerry say they are working on updating their platform and it will include sorting functionality. No time frame given.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭ sKeith


    It looks like this thread is turning into my blog. :p But I hope my tidbits of information might help others. I noticed very little discussion or recent information on the P2PIF forums.

    I fired off an email to RoboCash regarding the cash drag. They said they have a temporary decreased in new loans. They hope to have it 'solved' soon. Will keep a close eye on this one.

    PeerBerry say they are working on updating their platform and it will include sorting functionality. No time frame given.

    I much appreciate your content!


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