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Attitude towards Free Travel Card Users
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I have to admit I have absolutely no shame in using my free travel card, I've never once thought about being judged by drivers etc or by other passengers, even though I do look completely fit and healthy from the outside.
As it happens, like the OP, my problems are psychiatric. My GP and psychiatrist were the ones who suggested I should apply for it. Returning to work in the foreseeable future is absolutely out of the question. Based on the medical reports provided, the card was granted immediately with no appeals etc.
It's not really anyone else's business why I'm entitled to free travel. I've nothing to hide. I'd like nothing more than to resume an ordinary life (I had a very successful career in Finance/Accountancy before my mental health imploded!), and I will some day. If other people judge my use of free travel without knowing anything about me or my diagnoses or history, let them at it. What other people think of me is none of my business .0 -
Foweva Awone wrote: »I have to admit I have absolutely no shame in using my free travel card, I've never once thought about being judged by drivers etc or by other passengers, even though I do look completely fit and healthy from the outside.
As it happens, like the OP, my problems are psychiatric. My GP and psychiatrist were the ones who suggested I should apply for it. Returning to work in the foreseeable future is absolutely out of the question. Based on the medical reports provided, the card was granted immediately with no appeals etc.
It's not really anyone else's business why I'm entitled to free travel. I've nothing to hide. I'd like nothing more than to resume an ordinary life (I had a very successful career in Finance/Accountancy before my mental health imploded!), and I will some day. If other people judge my use of free travel without knowing anything about me or my diagnoses or history, let them at it. What other people think of me is none of my business .
i have no argument whatsoever with anyone who deserves it getting the FTP - you would be near the top of the list of those deserving it, by far - many people wouldn't see psychological or emotional conditions as "illness" or "disability" but by God are they!
I'm in my 40 but suffer from osteoarthritis, I clearly walk with a limp and am in pain. But as I don't meet the "criteria" of needing a seat or a bit of help I don't get it.0 -
PeterParker957 wrote: »I'm in my 40 but suffer from osteoarthritis, I clearly walk with a limp and am in pain. But as I don't meet the "criteria" of needing a seat or a bit of help I don't get it.
You are probably hard working and independent. Others would ham up a condition like that, go limping and crying moaning "I can't work" into their TD and get a FTP that way. You more than likely want to work and that puts you at a disadvantage getting any sort of help in this country.0 -
You are probably hard working and independent. Others would ham up a condition like that, go limping and crying moaning "I can't work" into their TD and get a FTP that way. You more than likely want to work and that puts you at a disadvantage getting any sort of help in this country.
Nope, not me - just pop pills and get on with it!!!0 -
chronic fatigue syndrome
fibromyalgia
there are no tests available to say you do or dont have them, in other words they are not real, but we live in PC times, doctors can't call you a liar, so to get rid of you taking up precious time and resources, they sign of on you having these "ailments".
just your word, dig your heels in and keep up the act and eventually you will get FTP and the rest.
Fear of offending and the legal folk so willing to sue has got us to this point.
Little fact for you, whiplash is not recognised as more than a few days of discomfort in eastern europe, no big insurance payouts, just a few paracetamol and away you go.0 -
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As a bus driver its funny how you go into some areas like Darndale and 80% of people boarding the bus has a FTP.
On routes that goes through working middle class areas you can fill a whole bus and not see a single FTP.
If they are only given out to mainly OAPs and people who are sick then I dont understand whats going on. Is no one sick in middle class areas?0 -
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that post begs so many questions.
first obvious answer is in middle class areas, the number of people on waiting lists for treatment is probably far lower due to private health insurance.0 -
magicbastarder wrote: »that post begs so many questions.
first obvious answer is in middle class areas, the number of people on waiting lists for treatment is probably far lower due to private health insurance.
I would be interesting to see a map of Dublin with the number of FTPs issued in each area.0 -
brokenarms wrote: »Is no one sick in middle class areas?
Many of them make sacrifices to pay for VHI and private treatment so they might not be sick for long. They have mortgages to pay so if they're sick they suck it up and keep going.
I consider myself to be working class but I push through long term illness and malaise and keep going so I can pay the bills. Doing that for an indefinite period of time takes its toll on your patience with freeloaders - another poster is doing the same thing and is expressing similar grievances to me.
Sometimes I think I should sit back and put my head in the trough like some other people instead of keeping going through hardship. You get no thanks for working in this country.
A modest proposal for Irish Rail: take all the seats out of the carriages and make everyone stand so you can fit more people into the train. Well nearly everyone. The FTP holders can sit on the back of a paying passenger for the duration of the journey - more efficient use of space. Annual pass holders get sat on first. There might be a problem if there are more FTP holders on the train than paying passengers but that can be solved by making annual pass holders carry two FTP holders!0 -
brokenarms wrote: »I would be interesting to see a map of Dublin with the number of FTPs issued in each area.
A map of Ireland would be good as well. The world doesn't stop outside Dublin.0 -
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I doubt you would find many FTPs in middle or upper class areas....why would they need them?brokenarms wrote: »I would be interesting to see a map of Dublin with the number of FTPs issued in each area.0 -
I had a psychiatric illness for 12 years.
I could have given up work, gone on disability, got my FTP, etc etc etc. These were all options that were presented to me by medical professionals at the time.
I chose to work.
I got over that in the end but unfortunately I now have a condition that often leaves me curled up in a fetal position with unrelenting, indescribable pain..
Once again i've been told i can sign off on disability and get all the free perks that come with it.
Once again I chose to work.
The only concession i avail of is the drug payment scheme where I pay the first €144 towards my medicine costs and the state pays the rest. I hate taking it but I couldn't afford the medication if I were to pay it all myself.
To be honest I think it's just an attitude and probably has a lot to do with your upbringing.
Of course there are genuine cases who should be helped but in my experience, some people want to work and contribute and will always find a way while others just want a free ride and are happy to sponge off those of us that work.
It's the system that allows this that wrong and needs fixing..
IR are bust. We need to remove any concept of free travel. You shouldn't be able to travel from Dublin to Cork for free just because your old. That's complete nonsense. We can't afford it..
We need to figure out how to provide a service that people don't mind actually paying for and run it efficiently but then that'll never happen as long as the unions run the show.0 -
IR are bust. We need to remove any concept of free travel. You shouldn't be able to travel from Dublin to Cork for free just because your old. That's complete nonsense. We can't afford it..
We need to figure out how to provide a service that people don't mind actually paying for and run it efficiently but then that'll never happen as long as the unions run the show.
I admire your courage. Sadly your attitude is not rewarded in this country.
I agree that we can't afford the FTP. It used to be available at off peak times only. People will only be happy to pay for a service if they believes it provides value. This will not happem while paying passengers have to stand and the service is overrun by people who don't pay for it.0 -
I had a psychiatric illness for 12 years.
I could have given up work, gone on disability, got my FTP, etc etc etc. These were all options that were presented to me by medical professionals at the time.
I chose to work.
I got over that in the end but unfortunately I now have a condition that often leaves me curled up in a fetal position with unrelenting, indescribable pain..
Once again i've been told i can sign off on disability and get all the free perks that come with it.
Once again I chose to work.
The only concession i avail of is the drug payment scheme where I pay the first €144 towards my medicine costs and the state pays the rest. I hate taking it but I couldn't afford the medication if I were to pay it all myself.
To be honest I think it's just an attitude and probably has a lot to do with your upbringing.
Of course there are genuine cases who should be helped but in my experience, some people want to work and contribute and will always find a way while others just want a free ride and are happy to sponge off those of us that work.
It's the system that allows this that wrong and needs fixing..
IR are bust. We need to remove any concept of free travel. You shouldn't be able to travel from Dublin to Cork for free just because your old. That's complete nonsense. We can't afford it..
We need to figure out how to provide a service that people don't mind actually paying for and run it efficiently but then that'll never happen as long as the unions run the show.
I wish I could thank this more than once!0 -
bucketybuck wrote: »Sometimes you can't help but think, "Get over yourself".
Did you seriously just respond to a post about a suicide attempt, cancer, depression and anxiety with "get over yourself"?
It amazes me that some of the cold and disturbing replies like the one above did not get edited or removed, but they managed to edit my post to remove a part critical to understanding the weight of it..
Many of the responses (you can't take someone "shopping" with you without a companion pass, and 77million out of a 40billion euro budget is peanuts and I am too good to que for a ticket with a pass because like a leap user I DON'T HAVE TO QUE FOR A TICKET SLAPSTICK that's the entire point!) to this have made me lose a lot of faith in people. Jesus Christ. You'd think some things even the internet has a line, but no, theres always a brave keyboard warrior ready to stand up to....the suicidally depressed....brave....brave...
Maybe the mods should have left those instructions up after all.....0 -
While I'm gonna go through everything properly later , I made an exception with this one below to treat it on it's own as I spotted it and the errors and stupidity in it are actually really shocking
If you are going to rant and rave about something you should have a basic understanding of what the hell you are talking about.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Willful_ignorance
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effectI had a psychiatric illness for 12 years.
Then you either should have gotten treatment or you had a condition that can't be cured. FTPs are NOT given out because you have a mental illness. It does not work that way.
That is not the criteria.
Disability Allowance is not given to someone with ANY condition automatically just because they have that condition and going to a doctor without a medical history would not get you it either, it has to be a condition lasting a year or longer.
The criteria is are you able to engage in your basic activities, plenty of depressed people can work because their ilness is of a different intensity and they don't just casually ask "can you" and you say "no" and that's it. They probe, there are pages of assessment forms, you have to go into micro-detail about what happens when you try to do xyz, what your daily routine is, it's very detailed.
No, you could not. Because if you were perfectly able to work with a condition that lasted 12 years the assesment would have ensured your application was denied. I've seen this happen to people several times.I could have given up work, gone on disability, got my FTP
I don't beleive you. They would not offer this to you if you were perfectly functional, and though the criteria were loser back then (de-ability and all that crap) there is no way it would happen today. Even with a previous incarnation of depression and anxiety back in early secondary school, with previous suicidal thoughts (ideation they call it which is not considered as serious as someone with an actual thought out plan - just something to keep an eye on, thinking about the edge rather than walking up to it) my GP told me there was nothing to ensure it would go through. She felt my previous incarnation of it and recent physical illness would help but we might have to appeal, this wasn't pro forma she was giving me a don't get your hopes up speech. She said "with some i would not appeal, most I would". Doctors will not risk careers commititng fraud by sayign someone is crippled and incapable of basic socializing working etc when they are not., etc etc etc. These were all options that were presented to me by medical professionals at the time.I chose to work.
I got over that in the end but unfortunately I now have a condition that often leaves me curled up in a fetal position with unrelenting, indescribable pain..
Once again i've been told i can sign off on disability and get all the free perks that come with it.
Once again I chose to work.
This is such nonsense I don't knw where to start.
Why on earth would you work if you have regular pain that leaves you unable to stand up? Nobody could work if they had this kind of condition you are talking utter and complete horse1hte. You'd either get a condition like this treated medically or you'd be on disability, or do the latter while the former.
You're lying.
.The only concession i avail of is the drug payment scheme where I pay the first €144 towards my medicine costs and the state pays the rest. I hate taking it but I couldn't afford the medication if I were to pay it all myself
Why would you hate taking a service your taxes pay for? Do you think the people in the NHS "hate" taking their meds for 7.75 or whatever it is?Of course there are genuine cases who should be helped but in my experience, some people want to work and contribute and will always find a way while others just want a free ride and are happy to sponge off those of us that work.
This nonsense idea that there is one pool of people who work and other that does not and one pays for the other needs to stop. We all pay into the pot we all take out of it in different ways at different times. I worked from the time I was 16 paying taxes and worked part time and full time in summers during my education. Even the full scale spongers of 30.000 or so at the bottom of the pool contribute to the pot in various ways through other taxes besides income tax.
Thi sis exactly what happened in the UK. The tabloids and online trolls like yourself whipped everyone up into hysterics over the less than 5% scamming and they privatized the entire system taking it out of medical hands, which ended up doing massive collatoral damage to the very people who need it most meanwhile the scammers are still there as people who are declared fit for work monday kill themselves on tuesday (yes it's happened look it up). I don't want to see that happen here which is why I will battle myths and lies like this to the end.
You spectacularly missed the ENTIRE BLOODY POINT of my post, and that is that the VASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST majority, 95% according to estimates, are genuine cases and when you spread your lies about being able to casually swan into your doctor and go into disability but you waved it away coz no big deal it HURTs those of us who ARE genuine because it destroys support for the systems we rely on.It's the system that allows this that wrong and needs fixing..
There is only one flaw in the system, they've stopped all re-assessments because they won't hire the doctors to do them, without it someone could have fully recovered and been out of contact with their doctor who would not know. They can solve this by putting them back - simple. Then you have the estimated 0.4%-5% fraud delt with. When I was on it I got calls every now and then from a state appointed doctor, you went into town and they assessed you as if from scratch with a blank file, they had your old file, but they'd talk to you. Once I got through it I was able to ask him a lot about it, he said you can't fake mental illness with them because there is no one "depression" there are specific types of these disorders and each have their own symptoms, that a diagnosis (as ive heard from other docs) is not just ticking off a list of symptoms form the DSM as most lay people think, it's more complex than that, but even there you have a convo with them that seems like a simple chat but really they are probing to see if the symptoms of what you supposidly have are all consistent with your condition.
Doing fraud on this would be a full time job you'd literally have to study up for it, which is why only professional skangers actually do it and many of them DO have all sorts of medical issues anyway.
IR DO NOT PAY FOR FT. Jesus will you check the BASIC facts before you start ranting away. The DSP pays for it, funding has been increaced to erase a de-facto recession subsidy that CIE was giving, and FT costs 0.7% of the national budget, it's the cheapest social program in the entire f---g budgetIR are bust. We need to remove any concept of free travel. You shouldn't be able to travel from Dublin to Cork for free just because your old. That's complete nonsense. We can't afford it..We need to figure out how to provide a service that people don't mind actually paying for and run it efficiently but then that'll never happen as long as the unions run the show.
We have, and most sane people who know what the f---k they are talking about do support it, in fact there would be a political firestorm if they were to suggest abolishing it.0 -
Anything like the sanctimonious nonsense in this thread from people who haven’t a clue what they are rambling about and are too stupid to even Google FT to equip themselves with some basic facts!0
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While I'm gonna go through everything properly later , I made an exception with this one below to treat it on it's own as I spotted it and the errors and stupidity in it are actually really shocking
If you are going to rant and rave about something you should have a basic understanding of what the hell you are talking about.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Willful_ignorance
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect
Then you either should have gotten treatment or you had a condition that can't be cured. FTPs are NOT given out because you have a mental illness. It does not work that way.
That is not the criteria.
Disability Allowance is not given to someone with ANY condition automatically just because they have that condition and going to a doctor without a medical history would not get you it either, it has to be a condition lasting a year or longer.
The criteria is are you able to engage in your basic activities, plenty of depressed people can work because their ilness is of a different intensity and they don't just casually ask "can you" and you say "no" and that's it. They probe, there are pages of assessment forms, you have to go into micro-detail about what happens when you try to do xyz, what your daily routine is, it's very detailed.
No, you could not. Because if you were perfectly able to work with a condition that lasted 12 years the assesment would have ensured your application was denied. I've seen this happen to people several times.
I don't beleive you. They would not offer this to you if you were perfectly functional, and though the criteria were loser back then (de-ability and all that crap) there is no way it would happen today. Even with a previous incarnation of depression and anxiety back in early secondary school, with previous suicidal thoughts (ideation they call it which is not considered as serious as someone with an actual thought out plan - just something to keep an eye on, thinking about the edge rather than walking up to it) my GP told me there was nothing to ensure it would go through. She felt my previous incarnation of it and recent physical illness would help but we might have to appeal, this wasn't pro forma she was giving me a don't get your hopes up speech. She said "with some i would not appeal, most I would". Doctors will not risk careers commititng fraud by sayign someone is crippled and incapable of basic socializing working etc when they are not.
This is such nonsense I don't knw where to start.
Why on earth would you work if you have regular pain that leaves you unable to stand up? Nobody could work if they had this kind of condition you are talking utter and complete horse1hte. You'd either get a condition like this treated medically or you'd be on disability, or do the latter while the former.
You're lying.
.
Why would you hate taking a service your taxes pay for? Do you think the people in the NHS "hate" taking their meds for 7.75 or whatever it is?
This nonsense idea that there is one pool of people who work and other that does not and one pays for the other needs to stop. We all pay into the pot we all take out of it in different ways at different times. I worked from the time I was 16 paying taxes and worked part time and full time in summers during my education. Even the full scale spongers of 30.000 or so at the bottom of the pool contribute to the pot in various ways through other taxes besides income tax.
Thi sis exactly what happened in the UK. The tabloids and online trolls like yourself whipped everyone up into hysterics over the less than 5% scamming and they privatized the entire system taking it out of medical hands, which ended up doing massive collatoral damage to the very people who need it most meanwhile the scammers are still there as people who are declared fit for work monday kill themselves on tuesday (yes it's happened look it up). I don't want to see that happen here which is why I will battle myths and lies like this to the end.
You spectacularly missed the ENTIRE BLOODY POINT of my post, and that is that the VASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST majority, 95% according to estimates, are genuine cases and when you spread your lies about being able to casually swan into your doctor and go into disability but you waved it away coz no big deal it HURTs those of us who ARE genuine because it destroys support for the systems we rely on.
There is only one flaw in the system, they've stopped all re-assessments because they won't hire the doctors to do them, without it someone could have fully recovered and been out of contact with their doctor who would not know. They can solve this by putting them back - simple. Then you have the estimated 0.4%-5% fraud delt with. When I was on it I got calls every now and then from a state appointed doctor, you went into town and they assessed you as if from scratch with a blank file, they had your old file, but they'd talk to you. Once I got through it I was able to ask him a lot about it, he said you can't fake mental illness with them because there is no one "depression" there are specific types of these disorders and each have their own symptoms, that a diagnosis (as ive heard from other docs) is not just ticking off a list of symptoms form the DSM as most lay people think, it's more complex than that, but even there you have a convo with them that seems like a simple chat but really they are probing to see if the symptoms of what you supposidly have are all consistent with your condition.
Doing fraud on this would be a full time job you'd literally have to study up for it, which is why only professional skangers actually do it and many of them DO have all sorts of medical issues anyway.
IR DO NOT PAY FOR FT. Jesus will you check the BASIC facts before you start ranting away. The DSP pays for it, funding has been increaced to erase a de-facto recession subsidy that CIE was giving, and FT costs 0.7% of the national budget, it's the cheapest social program in the entire f---g budget
We have, and most sane people who know what the f---k they are talking about do support it, in fact there would be a political firestorm if they were to suggest abolishing it.
Well that is some rant..
I'm only up because i'm following the weather forum and doing a bit of curtain twitching but i'm a little bit blown away by this attack to be honest..
You are of course entitled to your views.
What you're not entitled to do however, is to project your experience on to mine and label me a liar because they differ.
I'm not going to respond to any other part of your outburst other then to say i'm very grateful that I don't carry your anger as that would be a far greater disability then any of the conditions i've had to date.
I'm sitting here enjoying the first decent snow in years and your anger is a complete buzz killer so I won't be engaging any further.
I do hope you find some solace from it though.0 -
It's at times like this that i miss Foggy Lad, he would have loved this thread and possibly warned a few times. ��.0
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I'm gonna need a few double expressos in the morning....
I've no anger Swanner, only for nonsense, I'll say this and leave it there regarding your post
It's not a rant, it's a considered factual, rational reply. As opposed to the Daily Mailesque nonsense of your post which the staff at Snopes.com would groan at, and they've seen it all.
If someone has a serious enough condition that they can't work - they will be assessed as such medically and will be on sick pay or disability (whichever is appropriate) until they are treated successfully, then return to work.
If they have a serious enough condition they can't work effectively and chose to continue to work while getting treatment they are a moron and doing no service to their employer who could fill their job with a temp who will be able to work at full capacity and productivity. People with serious psychatric conditions are absolout nightmares for employers, listen to 4FMs podcast database they had a show on this, they're calling in sick a lot, late, the works. That's why many docs would ask them to drop out of work, focus on getting better then go back clean and effective not half assed with one foot out the door still fighting an illness.
If they have a condition where they can still work, it does not impair their job, then no doctor is going to wave disability at them and tell them they can get all kinds of goodies because that's not how the system works, it's only for people who can't work. Doctors are taxpayers too, in fact they tend to pay a hell of a lot more tax than average, and they are not going to help anyone screw the system. If they offer assistance to someone it is because they judge that it's not in their best interests to work with that condition until it is treated effectively (a key flaw in our system is lack of a proper public mental health system but that's another days work). In addition the average industrial wage in Ireland hovers depending how you count (pretax) between €600-1000, nobody is going to give that up to go on 188 a week unless they're in seriously bad shape.0 -
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Hilly Bill wrote: »It's at times like this that i miss Foggy Lad, he would have loved this thread and possibly warned a few times. ��.
My blood pressure is high enough ffsake are you trying to kill me!
Even the suggestion of that .....0 -
As I said I'll get to the rest reading it properly in time, havn't gone beyond page1 for most part. However looking through it all I do note the most common trend: ignorance, of even really really basic facts easily obtained and checked online.
- Basic facts about how disability is gotten and who qualifies
- Basic facts about how FT is funded and how much it costs
- Basic facts about WHO funds it (which dept)
- Basic facts about medicine
I'd never dream of posting a tirade on the political boards about EU Agriculture Subsidies or Jobseekers Allowance without knowing or at least going on citizensinformation.ie or welfare.ie and looking up the basic information. I know about the arrogence of ignorance but I'm still amazed to this day by people who can have these venomous opinions on topics they don't know the very basic facts about. I guess Brexit is the biggest example of that but its baffling to me. I try to avoid even talking about a topic I don't know a lot about but I'd at least advise myself ot he basic info first to avoid embarrasing myself.Mrs OBumble wrote: »
That said, I am going to report your post in a minute, 'cos I don't think that it's a good idea to share details of your death-scheme on the interwebz where other people who might not be bright enough to think of it themselves can find it.
I thank you for your reply, but I'm EXTREMELY annoyed that you did that and that the mods edited my post. If you wanna do my talking for me lads let me know I'll put my feet up and just let you write my posts for me yeh? Taking pills to commit suicide is hardly a novel thing even the way I was doing it. I realize I was doing it in a very sophisticated way with the intention of making it look like something else, but I think I could have been given the chance to reword that on my own without having a key part of what I wanted to say just erased. I wonder if it might have made 1-2 monsters who replied a little less vicious if they'd fully understood where I was coming from.
If you wanna do the whole police state nanny the users thing, I'd direct you to far mroe vicious posts on this thread that might merit your attention far better. At least be consistent.
Two things here:
(1) "just go back to work" / "im a hero I kept working"
Firstly, you don't know what condition it is, every condition and it's intensity is different depending on the paitent, you can't apply your personal situation to others when you know nothing about them. Secondly, I did try that at first, I could not hold down work because my condition was making it impossible to keep me as an employee, people are very self centrered and they often think your personal mood/vibe is aimed at them they'd never consider it might be your own personal issue OR they would say (as most employers and most people would with a "mood "or "bad day" quite reasonably) "keep it out of the workplace, leave it at the door before you come in". You can do that with a mood or bad day or a breakup. You can't do it with a full blown intense mental illness, it's all consuming, you are wearing micro-expressions on your face that send out signals even when you are totally unaware of how you are coming across. So even if you were not an anxious mess with a pounding heart rate afraid to leave your apartment you can't "just do it" this is not a Nike ad, this is real life.
(2) Many have said it's in my head, subjective impressions or even projection about it given my own prior feelings about FT.
I'm not overthinking it. I didn't put examples in the post because it was already long enough but I'm gonna list just a few incidents now just to drive this point home (yes it doubles the size of the post but since it was the main thing in most replies - ):- One driver felt it necessary to ring into a national radio show about me during a strike blaming BE's financial issues on people like me.
- One BE bus driver made snide comments I didn't hear, under his breath shaking his head - also during the strike. Not a good strategy to p1ss on people weaker than you to solve your own woes. This is of course reflective of only those individuals involved.
- One DB driver (not from the Donnybrook garage my local which seems to have the nicest drivers in the city) called me back when he saw me tag, I can understand why he wanted to check all he saw was a clear plastic case with a blank Irish rail ticket and was probably wondering if there was a child leap or something under it - so I thought. I handed it to him. He pulled it out. Examined the photo. So far no issue. Looked from me to photo to me. This is mere weeks ago I look very healthy full head of hair stuck up fringe shiney tanned skin fit frame, in the pic im skinny ultra-thinned out hair pale as a sheet. "This doens't look like you". I laugh saying good, and explain I was very sick when it was taken. He suggests he has to confiscate it. I thought only revenue guys could do that but if he snatches it what am I gonna do? wrestle it off him? I asked him to take note that the person in the photo has a small mole and I have one in the same position - ergo thats me. I took out a second ID card matching the name with it's own photo. "If this was you what are you still doing with one". I explain. Hnads it back "something dodgy going on there mate dunno what you're pulling but it's something".
I wished I'd got on further down, because he'd not have had this kinda time to waste if he was picking me up at a bus stop rather than entering service. - One intercity driver halted a que to my amazement with freezing people behind me and asked me, hesitating about to give it back, what did I have a pass for, that I didn't look over 66 and i definitly wasn't disabled (his verbal emphasis). I tried arguing I don't have to explain that, that the pass is valid and I should be let on the bus. He refused to allow me on until I told him what was wrong with me. I thought this was shockingly unprofessional. I was trying to avoid the mental illness talk so I told him about the cancer. He looked me up and down and said "not atall " and proceeded to tell me how people with cancer "look", he should know coz etc.
No not atall lots of lads in their early 20s have thinned out hair you go BALD when you've cancer...then he rang up the number on the back to verify that it was real and tried asking THEM what I had it for, assuring them "there is no way this guys for real are you sure?". They didn't tell him I don't think.
Then eventually let me sit down. After I went down the back looking for the emergency exit seat so I could stretch my legs its the seat (besides the front) with the most space in front. Even though the cancer was gone I was still on the drugs to make sure it stayed gone this time (it had already recurred once). These hi tech wonder drugs are great but have nasty side effects. One of which was a kind of muscle soreness so your limbs are very tense on occasion, with legs it can make it hard to walk beyond vv slow. Any of you who have ever ran around a pitch without stretching or do weights and felt DOMS the next day (delayed onsent muscle soreness), imagine that x10 you can barely move your legs sometimes. I stretched my legs out and dumped my bag on the ground my hands were shaking. I grabbed my legs one at a time and sorta pushed them out and leaned back quickly putting my earphones in closing my eyes and putting the seat back trying to get lost in another world.
I was already wishing I'd got the train as the nausia and pain from roots of my teeth (other side effects) kicked in.
I felt a hand patting me on the shoulder and eyes darted open. Two women who were seniors who had been behind me were standing over me. For a split second I thought they were gonna tell me they thought the guy was an awful tool for speaking to me like that, cos they were smiling. One says, still smiling in what I now realized was an "im trying to be nice but you're an a---hole" way, "these seats are for the old people and disabled you know that don't ye?". I stared for a few seconds then blurted out barely above a whisper "are you f----g kidding me".
I looked to my right and saw no priority sticker. I often took the seat in the new dublin busses with the fold up seats or the one at the wheelchair space for the same reasosn, it let my blood circulate properly and took away the worst of the muscle soreness in my legs for the journey, a few times wheelchair or buggy or very old woman/man would get on and I'd switch seats.
There was space here because there is an emergency exit - nothing to do with disablity. "Would you like to sit here?"
"yes we would"
"why?"
"were old people" (both looked mid 50s at best, but had passes whch meant they were 66 minimum, a very healthy 66 - i quickly scolded myself for using the same metric of 'how bad do they look' I hated others using and bit my tounge on that point)
I reached down where my sports bag was blocking the feet area of the seat beside me and shoved it behind my knees: "be my guest". I was saying in other words theres one for you and your friend can sit in the one to your left, I'm not going anywhere. THey look at each other "whoever has the bad legs can take the spacy seat" I joked trying to defuse things through winced face trying to ignore the pain.
They continued standing. I said "both my legs are stiff from the drugs I'm on, i would really appreciate being able to stretch them out during my journey, can you please try to empathize with that and just one of you take a normal seat?". They looked at each other. One says, as if I hadn't said a word: "These seats are for de old peeple son I don't think you understand that".
(The throbbing under my left gum gets worse as it always did when my BP went up - I remembered from my security jobs to always talk in a lower voice than the person you are talking to it helps deescalate things)
"It's not a priority seat it's an emergency exit seat - please sit down - I've had enough abuse for one trip this is becoming ridicilous now".
They looked at each other then walked off....i took a deep breath...until I saw they were going up to the driver. He came back down with them and informed me that stickers not withstanding these were priority seats, and directed me to one of only 3 seats left, behind them right at the back of the bus. I spent the next 2+ hours listening to them tell each other in an obviously loud way how terrible " these scammers" are and decry these days where perfectly healthy "young peeple" won't give up their seat for "de old peeple". THey also thought it greatly amusing...i sh1t you not...i sh1t you not...to push their seats back as far as they could to hem me in even more. The seats were so far back I could not open my laptop properly.
Neither of them , or the driver, noticed the large air force blue band on my left wrist with a silver plate on the front, the most obvious medic-alert bracelet in the world - OR thought it was part of the scam (faking scans for cancer and blood tests for mental illness were some feat I tell you!) . I'd gotten it because in the cancer fight I'd passed out on the street twice and when my heart rate went too high in an anxiety attack one time my vision blurred i missed a step and whacked my head going out cold, with all the meds I had in my system they reccomended I wear the bracelet. - In one case I was late for a hospital appointment I'd been squeezed in at the end of the day and I got the Rosslare train at Connoly cos it was faster. I ran up to the door but wasn't as late as I thought since as with all trains it was late. I slammed on the brakes to ensure I didn't go face first into the door and waited (doors hadn't opened). There were people on my left, right, behind me in the usual train scrum. I got into the train and sat down catching my breath. Drugs made me feel like I was an 80 year old smoker and even short runs exausted me. I got a complaint from a man now sitting in front of me who had been at the door (who id swore I saw before) that I'd skipped the que. Que? at a train? there were people on the left and right of the door i stood at the door facing it, and then two came up behind me. I told him I saw no que and didn't think there was such a thing for a train, unless you elbow past someone or bypass them which I hadn't done. I took out my blood test form nervious at all the boxes ticked (esp LFTs which I dread) then realizing my pass was still in my hand took out my wallet to slip it inside and the man mutters "ah! that explains it "
"explains what?"
(no answer)
I lean forward dropping my voice by about half in volume
"what do you mean come on just say it"
"entitement mentality - comes from not working for a living"
To understand how angry I get when someone throws this at me as they did regularly over this period, you have to understand I showed up on my own to work in a store near me when I was a kid, I worked and started a credit union when I was 16 (proper work like with taxes and all) and had very little of any gap since until I got too sick to continue. My mother worked two jobs, my sisters were up before 6 to go to theirs. In UCD I worked three jobs alongside my studies, one paid in kind two paid flexitime.
"I work plenty, when I'm healthy"
"look healthy to me"
"if you were gonna have an MI in 3 hours I'd not be able to tell your heart valves were stuck with plaque or narrowed or what your blood pressure is by looking at you - so please be rational would you?"
"I thought those were for disabled though, not sick" he says with a smug smile as if he'd caught me. This is a common thing, not understanding the difference between sick pay and disability.
Sick pay is for people who will be out for a limited period for something like damage to their back or pregnancy issues. It's often paid via the employer in a kinda subsidy system into the company sick pay system. Disability is for conditions lasting longer than a year that are...well...disabling. With sick issues you may have x problem that stops you working but you're otherwise basically functional. With disability you can't do basic functioning, socializing the works it's all interfered with. But most think mental illnesses are not included in DA that it only covers conjenital, incurable disabilities. Including, many psychatrists mine included, one I used at the later stage when I could no longer use my colleges services as someone on leave, since he's used to priavte paitents and charges nearly 200 an appointment he'd hardly come into contact with many people on the social welfare system.
"Disabilities are not always visible, and they are not all incurable". The convo stopped but he was shaking his head refusing to think this APPARENTLY healthy person sitting in front of him had had any kind of issues recently. - It wasn't just with the card, the stigma about welfare in this country is unreal. It's a social insurance system we all pay into it we all take from it at some stage that's how it works. There is no cause for shame just because a few thousand are lifers on it. Walking out of my local DSP office after an interview one day I was wearing my UCDRFC tracksuit bottoms which had the logo and letters on the left upper leg. I thought for a second I lost my wallet then I find it and in a panic pull out the FT pass thinking oh thank God I have it. Two women coming from a nearby building who had stopped to talk, I heard them as I walked away , one of them saying "this is what i was saying about the fraud going on that fellas in college wearing the college gear and he's got a bus pass in his hand like did nobody inside notice the stuff he was wearing the frauds so obvious a monkey could see it". Of course I was not an active student at that stage I was on medical leave all university students are banned by law from any DSP help for the crime of trying to better their lives.
...and now to this list I can add: BOARDS.IE 2018 - I post a "from our perspective" thing on how using an FT pass can be an embarrasing and sometimes humiliating experience given other peoples reactions to it. Some posters suggest possibly this is just anxiety, given you did actually say you had anxiety so maybe this was added to it, don't worry they say, it's probably just in your mind. Five pages of vicious fact-free tirades about FT uers follow including heros who say they were decapitated in an industrial accident but continued working, another suggests someone who was suicidally depressed and who battled a life threatening cancer diagnosis "get over yourself", and others suggested you were lazy or committing fraud ---the VERY god damn thing you were ssaying you were afraid people thought IN THE FIRST PLACE.
This is maybe 5% of the staff of CIE/Luas/Translink I've encountered. The examples above DO NOT represent the general attitude of staff (as far as I've experienced), and I'm on very friendly terms with some of them who know me personally as a regular on some routes and they've gone out of their way to be kind and helpful to me, some of them knowing my situation, and I've seen them do the same to others. I don't want anyone to think this is some kind of vast attitude problem among staff OR that incidents like this happen every day. I'd imagine there is way more unsaid than said, but even the "i feel the dirty look" incidents are the MINORITY.
The problem is: that is cold comfort, because it's Russian roulette you don't know when a farcical incident like those two ladies on the bus is gonna happen, and the responces to this thread have only proved that this is a major issue, more among the public than the staff, and like the staff the public who bathe in ignorance and reactionary instincts about this are a minority, but just like the two loon fringes who will hyjack the abortion referendum coming up: they are a LOUD minority.
I think a poster is incorrect about holding onto these for FIVE years after recovery I think it's three for medical cards (which will be moot when they are rolled out to everyone anyway over time) and one for FT passes, and before thsi vicious stuff I'd never have considered using it that long - now I figure if you are going to get abuse and called a fraudster if you are genuine OR NOT, then why not just go to town and hold on to the thing :cool: ...for as lonnnnnnnnnng as possible.suicide_circus wrote: »I have never had an issue with the holders of FTPs (members of my own family included), it is the implementation of the system I see as flawed. We offer a 5 star FTP programme to far too many people. Add this to under investment in the network and very generous staff remuneration and it is the paying customer that suffers.
There is no such thing as 5 star FT. There is either a pass or not. It's only given to carers, disabiled and seniors. WHich of those would you take it off? Numerically it is offered to a lot, over 1m, but that's how many carers, seniors and disabled we have, the carers and disabled being only about 150,000 of those numbers
You could ELIMINATE FT in the morning and it would bring CIE and the network €0.00 because it's not the NTA or CIE that pays for the FT, so eliminate FT and it will just be used for something else in the DSP budget, NTA users would gain absoloutly nothing.And there's the reason why people have issues with the free travel card. It's given out and not taken back quick enough.
But to be fair the biggest issue with the free travel card was the out and out abuse of the system by people giving their pass to others or just using fakes etc. The new smart cards will reduce this so most of those issues should be fixed shortly.
What is "quick enough?". See quick enough used to be the moment you go back to work, but not only was pulling all supports away the second people go back a disincentive to work in practice previously, but it also yanked the rug out from under people when they were trying to build up their finances again. Esp when they are trying to go from flexitime to part time to full time over a phased period and dealing with possible relapses. So they decided quick enough was up to a year after returning.
People come up with this stuff as if nobody else has ever thought of it. Yes, you (you generally not you Del) were not the first to think of the idea of rush hour limits, they tried them, they didn't work, so they were removed for good reasons.
The new smart cards didn't reduce fraud, they've eliminated it. You can't use someone elses card without getting caught by an inspector, lost cards are immediatly locked, and you can't make fake ones.Maybe we should be directing our dirty looks at people using Leap cards wondering if they actually topped it up or found a way to defraud it with some elaborate system
I don't care a damn that I came up with a system to get more out of LEAP while waiting for the FT pass and know why? Because my application was taking months for something I knew I was going to get anyway, I knew I was seriously ill, I was having to conserve my money to pay for non-GMS drugs that were not yet on the public system, to pay for private consulting fees for doctors (generious as UCD health was with extra time they can only do so much when you are on leave and not active they're now allowed give you the same attention as a current student). CBT was €60 per appointment, I needed at least one of those a week, the psychatry appointment was €150/80 about every second or third week. Then you have the drugs, just a non-GMS sleep drug alone was €37, which is a lot when your income is 188 and you're trying to pay rent and food and loan repayments (no, shocking as it may be, everyone does not have rent allowance thrown at them). Then even the medical card drugs the nonGMS drugs worked with have their own little token fee. Heating gets a subsidy whcih was something but considering all the other costs it did't drop the red ink by that much. My budget was down to within a 5er each week easily. Most of my money was gone on rent before I got to the atm.
So yeh, when it came to paying for medication to keep me alive and stop a cancer coming back and eating away my internal organs from the inside out, or paying the NTA...I decided on the life saving medication...and I don't give a flying f---k if anyone think that's bad because they'd do the same, you don't know until the desperation hits you what you'll do. We all have to make moral choices sometimes in hard parts of our lives where you have two bad options, and you try to pick the one that's the least bad. You would make the exact same choice..0 -
I'm gonna need a few double expressos in the morning....
I've no anger Swanner, only for nonsense, I'll say this and leave it there regarding your post
It's not a rant, it's a considered factual, rational reply. As opposed to the Daily Mailesque nonsense of your post which the staff at Snopes.com would groan at, and they've seen it all.
May I cheekily suggest less caffeine not more..
Your posts exude a lot of anger..
You've made numerous incorrect assumptions about me, my illness, my work situation and my personal life and based on the fact that they don't match your own personal life experiences you've called me a liar.
I can't engage with anyone on that level. I welcome rational debate and discussion anytime but we're a long long way off that here.
Now back to more important things like snow..0 -
That may be the case in the private sector but in the public sector, there's generally an embargo on temporarily filling a long term sick position. We have about a dozen people currently on long term sick leave who are occupying position numbers and can't be replaced. It's very frustrating trying to manage that and it causes resentment among those staff who have to continually pick up the slack..... and doing no service to their employer who could fill their job with a temp ...0 -
If you dont look like the pic on your card, what do you expect drivers and fare checkers to do? I feel sorry for your troubles , but thats a problem you need to correct, not them.
The reasons they are giving you a hard time is clear and correct, and what they are meant to do. (including confiscating the card).
For every one of you(genuine), there are 10 scammers.0 -
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Seems to be all the stress, anxiety and anger the FTP users have would go away if they bought a €1.50 DB ticket, much cheaper than visits to Doctors and Psychiatrists, and no need to take load of expensive drugs with side effects.
Some people are just too miserable with money, wont part with it even if it will make them better.0 -
77million out of a 40billion euro budget is peanuts and I am too good to que for a ticket with a pass because like a leap user I DON'T HAVE TO QUE FOR A TICKET SLAPSTICK that's the entire point!) .
Nail on head, the government pays peanuts for the FTP, so fare paying passengers must pay top dollar to make up the short fall.
Your sense of entitlement is STRONG, beggars cant be choosers, your getting free travel, suck it up and put up with a few dirt looks, those who pay for a ticket would dont care what you feel.0 -
Exclude the OAP and disabled
This whole discussion about FTP holders and fare paying passengers reminds me of the Olympics.
Some people just get on with things , head down and train hard to win a gold medal, its hard , but they keep on trying, just get on with it, some will win other wont make the cut. Thats life , most get on with it and dont complain.
Then there are others who seek out a little help ,Steroids!
It gives them a advantage on the rest.
Now when they get caught in the Olympics, that the end of it.
Then we have the workers of Ireland, life is hard, its expensive to get to and from work,dont seek out help, just get on with it, then we have some working FTP holders, life is hard but they get some assistance in the form of a FTP to get to and from work, the equivalent of steroids.
Incredulously these working FTP holders see no issue with this arrangement.
Possibility earning more than fare paying passengers, but have a FTP, then start bitch when the fare payers complain about the high price because of subsidising the FTP.0 -
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