Attitude towards Free Travel Card Users

XPS_Zero

I decided to start a new thread on this, it was originally a reply to someone on the seat bookings thread.

I am in my early/mid 20s and I have had the experience of being an FT user, I will keep it for a while now as I am back in work but will eventually lose it, and while it's been an invaluable tool in helping me restore my health, the experience of having it has been humiliating, embarrassing, and stressful, because of the attitude of the public, some staff and radio presenters/callers (I listen and count the misinformation - always always ALLLLLWAYS uncorrected by the host)

I'm hardly innocent in this attitude, because I've been guilty of it myself.

We all know the usual three tropes about this topic: Junkies, cost and reforms. But it's not the wider scheme I wanna post on though, it's the attitude towards people on it - a kind of cold naked contempt and I'm going to use my own experience to illustrate how this attitude feels on the receiving end.

I managed to get myself a cancer that usually affects people over 55, and after I recovered from that I developed a really severe depression and anxiety disorder that:

• Stopped me going to college
• Got me fired from my job (because apparently, though I said/did nothing in particular according to them, the customers picked up on my dark mood and took it as me being bad mooded with them, which of course it was not),
• Led to me isolating myself at home
• Stopped all socializting (all social media terminate, no interactions with friends or socializing with family whatsoever, zero zero zero)
• My mental energy collapsed to the point where showering and shaving seemed like what climbing a mountain would to a normal person.
• Developed a sophisticated suicide plan to avoid it looking like a suicide

Eventually, I was convinced to get treatment, after two years of this going on. When I got the FT card I was told it would be a key tool in our plans.

I quite literally had to be retrained how to do normality. Docs set up a skeletal routine, up and out at x time, home by y time, to aproximate the normal routine and retrain in the basics. Contrary to what you see on TV, while empathy is important, treating mental illness is not all about wallowing in what a victim you are it's about getting out of that mindset and shoving you back into normality in careful phases.

The idea is to get you out and force you to sit through your anxiety, realize the sky won't fall, repeat until it goes away. I'd get up at my old times, go to the gym, then get on DART / Bus x for x time (the idea was to get used to working a timetable again) and being out made you have an incentive to do your normal bathroom routines etc. The FT was an ENORMOUS help to breaking the self imposed isolation. They start you with nice simple tasks like get on the bus go to x and come home..see nothing terrible happened, your heart rate went down and the dizziness went away...now sitting at a desk doing some work between the arrival and home time no longer seems like such a big deal does it?
"No...I kinda feel stupid now that I was that worried about it..." progress, and off you go to the next step.

It feels great when you start to make progress, for me it was the smell of refrigerator fluid in the delivery trucks in the morning air that made me remember "oh yeh...normality"...I remember this!. Then...that feeling is SHATTERED when you hear the bus driver, during the BE strike, on the radio complaining about abuse of the FT scheme which to my rage they were blaming on BE's financial woes, where he saw this passenger (who you realize with a jolt in your chest is you) just take the bus somewhere, ask when it was going back, have a cup of tea in the centre then turn around. You think oh god he's using my case as evidence of people just mucking around with it.

People don't understand that just because you look physically ok does not mean you are in perfect health (even with cancer you'd never know half the people have it with modern cosmetics, hair replacement, less invasive treatments..)

Oh you won't look like a mens health cover, but 99% of guys don't! The problem gets worse though, when you start to rapidly recover and you DO start to look like a mens health cover (if I do say so myself, and I do :cool: what? if your'e gonna rebuild may as well go all the way!) , where you are nearly there, ready to go back to work, socialize etc etc

You no longer have an iron defecency so you don't look pale as a sheet, you look lean and muscular not undernourished, you're clean shaven, using a moisturizer, actually wash and cut your hair, working out 4-5 days a week.

This multiplies the dirty looks 100 fold and snide comments you get from people about how "nothing wrong with him/you" and its so soul destroying. There you were, everyone told you to "pull the finger out" (a moronic phrase you hear on FM104 and 98FM about mental illness all the time spoken by cabbages who don't know what the f--k they're talking about, an anxiety attack can bring your heart rate up to 140 where you literally lock up and freeze), even the docs say "loose the mindset of being a sick person you'll never get back to normal that way, you have to do the normal things , normal grooming and dress, be up early etc". You do all that, it's hard, but you do it. Then your reward is increasingly snide comments when you use one of the tools at your disposal to get better. I've heard the "nothing wrong with him" whisper so many times I am starting to get paranoid thinking I may be hearing it when it's not actually said.


You see staff look carefully at the picture then up at you, you see the mild shake of the head, you know they're thinking "nothing wrong with him" - that he can see.. He sees a college age guy extremely physically fit with nice clothes bright eyes and clear skin. Heres what he couldn't see that was still going on even as I was recovering and looking way better:

• {snip — sorry, have to remove this — don’t want to give people in a similar position ideas — moderator}
• Night Terrors
• Insomnia
• Anxiety attacks
• Crushing loneliness from being away from friends some of whom you were very close to, but too afraid to go back near them until this was sorted lest you cause them trouble with your emotional issues
• Mortal terror at the idea of a relapse
• Fear that even though you no longer want to die you might have already crossed the ireperable damage threshold with the drugs you took in your previous attempt to kill yourself which has you constantly checking your eyes in mirrors for yellow spots, looking at your legs for evidence of any swelling..

I got so embarrassed I asked the guy in the Connoly office for two blank student tickets, put them in the clear plastic pouch the pass is in on either side of the smart card, the cardboard won't stop the chip capturing, the idea was to conceal that I was using a card from people around me.

I dread when inspectors come on, in fact it makes them all the more interested in me because in their job they clearly notice anyone squriming thinking they're fare dodging. I hate it because in some of them I can feel what they are thinking. I see them on the platform and I immediatly start to pack my laptop or tablet away, zip up my jacket to hide any brand logos lest I feed into the idea that "these people" are living the high life on the public dime (the tablet & clothes was bought when I was working, laptop a gift, but of course people always assume you got them with your welfare cash)

Even when you do'n't say anything we can feel it. Go up to a dog all happy and ready to pet him you'll see him wag his tail and approach you. Try going up to him angry (inside) and he'll back off and bark at you, because he can feel it, people have that ability to , you can sense someones hostility, and when you are just following the rules and trying your best to do what everyone told you to do it undermines your confidence and humiliates you.

Yes I know there are annoying junkies on the red line, I know there are people who should not have them - don't take it out on the rest of us who are just trying to get our lives back, or (in seniors case) getting a small payback from society for a lifetime of contributions.

So spare a thought, I hope you make it to 66, any of you out there who have had this attitude (like I did), but if you don't and you're struck down with something in the mean time, a year from now I won't have a pass, and I'll see some of you with one and know what? I won't mind paying for you, because you paid for me when I needed it, that's how a social democracy is supposed to work, and give me that over the US model of "f--k you you're on your own" any day.

Stheno

So you don't like being treated as a scammer but are going to keep your card now that you are earning?

Ever heard of the term "hoist by his own petard?'"

bilbot79

Stheno wrote: »

So you don't like being treated as a scammer but are going to keep your card now that you are earning?

Ever heard of the term "hoist by his own petard?'"

Ah let him have it for a while. He's been through a lot.

@Op, if there's one thing I've learned in life it's that people generally are NOT thinking what you think they are thinking about you. You are projecting that onto them yourself

I read an article once that said a test was done were dog owners believed their dogs faces showed their mood. Computer imaging software proved there was no difference in the dogs expressions and choice of mood perceived was more reflective of the owners mood at the time. Human flaw.

You've been through a lot fair play. Shame you can't keep the pass but not having it will also crystallise your recovery. Welcome back to normality

Mrs OBumble

Stheno wrote: »

So you don't like being treated as a scammer but are going to keep your card now that you are earning?

He got the card 'cos he was entitled to it.

The rules say that he continues to be entitled to it for a while even after he's back working.

Absolutely no reason why he should not keep using it as long as the rules say he's entitled.


OP, welcome back to the world, I hope things work out for you. This is a country with more than it's fair share of begrudgerous a**holes - just keep remembering that when you meet them. You've had a good lesson in who your real friends are.

That said, I am going to report your post in a minute, 'cos I don't think that it's a good idea to share details of your death-scheme on the interwebz where other people who might not be bright enough to think of it themselves can find it.

Stheno

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He got the card 'cos he was entitled to it.

The rules say that he continues to be entitled to it for a while even after he's back working.

Absolutely no reason why he should not keep using it as long as the rules say he's entitled.
.

That's fair enough

Gatling

Your clearly over thinking it op ,
If your not happy about perceptions using the card ,don't use it and pay for tickets if your in a position financially it will save you some anxiety in the long run

Del2005

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He got the card 'cos he was entitled to it.

The rules say that he continues to be entitled to it for a while even after he's back working.

Absolutely no reason why he should not keep using it as long as the rules say he's entitled.

And there's the reason why people have issues with the free travel card. It's given out and not taken back quick enough.

But to be fair the biggest issue with the free travel card was the out and out abuse of the system by people giving their pass to others or just using fakes etc. The new smart cards will reduce this so most of those issues should be fixed shortly.

madmaggie

I have a free travel card as I'm carer for a relative. He has a heart condition which means he can't walk very far, and a chronic back condition which means some days he can barely move. I've never encountered any problem, but OP seems to have had a rotten experience. As said before, very often people aren't thinking what you think they are thinking, but filthy looks are pretty obvious.

cursai

Hmm what's the scheme I wonder? I like hearing about scams.

Although your use of the pass is not and I encourage such use.

fritzelly

Maybe we should be directing our dirty looks at people using Leap cards wondering if they actually topped it up or found a way to defraud it with some elaborate system

I thought you could only keep it while in part time work as part of moving back to work and still in receipt of welfare payments, once in full time it's gone?

Nomis21

OP the Free Pass is designed for people such as yourself. Hold your head up high and don't worry what others might be thinking, I am sure they are not thinking anything at all.

mikemac2

Im quite impressed with the care you’ve recieved and how they work with you on a plan to establish a routine. Very informative post

Ditch the FM104 talk show, the chats are started by media students who are asked to troll and get everyone angry prompting lots of calls. You don’t need negative stuff like that in your life. I wish taxi drivers would stop listening too and they would be happier souls

suicide_circus

I have never had an issue with the holders of FTPs (members of my own family included), it is the implementation of the system I see as flawed. We offer a 5 star FTP programme to far too many people. Add this to under investment in the network and very generous staff remuneration and it is the paying customer that suffers.

AryaStark

I have a free travel pass as I am a carer for my Mam... I think that you may be imagining a lot of the reactions and being a bit paranoid. It is easy to say, but you should not be worrying about what other people think anyway.
I use my pass quite a bit and it is a life saver... I would never feel guilty about using it. Most people who complain about them are complaining about people abusing the system. You are not doing this.. you have been accessed and are entitled to the card. Use and enjoy it.

bucketybuck

Sometimes you can't help but think, "Get over yourself".

Hilly Bill

Personally i couldn't care who has one or why they have one but some treat it as the willy wonka golden ticket and thinks they don't have to queue or get a ticket and think they can bring friends shopping with it and even want to use it to go to London via the boat.

AryaStark

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Personally i couldn't care who has one or why they have one but some treat it as the willy wonka golden ticket and thinks they don't have to queue or get a ticket and think they can bring friends shopping with it and even want to use it to go to London via the boat.

People with a travel companion pass can bring their friends shopping... none of your business.

AlekSmart

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Personally i couldn't care who has one or why they have one but some treat it as the willy wonka golden ticket and thinks they don't have to queue or get a ticket and think they can bring friends shopping with it and even want to use it to go to London via the boat.

Very few people in Ireland have any perception of the cost of scheme's such as the FTP (which incidentally,is NOT a Statutory Scheme),but a good baseline would be this....

https://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/CIE-All-Services-Irish-Rail-Dublin-Bus--Bus-Eireann/

€6,530 Per Anum,which does not include LUAS or other non-CIE group services.
The total allocated funding for the FTS in 2016 was €77,112,000 which apparently covers the annual Free Travel Requirements of 873,454 FTP holders (excluding spouses/partners/companions)

It may not be Willy Wonka,but in comparison with most other juristictions,our National FTP stands head & shoulders above the rest.

Hilly Bill

AryaStark wrote: »

People with a travel companion pass can bring their friends shopping... none of your business.

Calm down and read it again and see if i mentioned the companion pass.

AryaStark

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Calm down and read it again and see if i mentioned the companion pass.

Then what did you mean.. you are complaining that people with travel pass want to bring their friends shopping. Unless they have a companion then their friends are paying so what is your point?

Hilly Bill

AryaStark wrote: »

Then what did you mean.. you are complaining that people with travel pass want to bring their friends shopping. Unless they have a companion then their friends are paying so what is your point?

I didn't complain, the companion pass speaks for itself with the word companion being the main word there so it's a bit obvious and no need to include it unless i needed to.
Just to make it easy for you, it's the personal card I'm on about.
I've seen people trying to bring their kids on the spouse card claiming its their partner.

AryaStark

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I didn't complain, the companion pass speaks for itself with the word companion being the main word there so it's a bit obvious and no need to include it unless i needed to.
Just to make it easy for you, it's the personal card I'm on about.
I've seen people trying to bring their kids on the spouse card claiming its their partner.

They can try all they like but its not allowed so its not a problem!

Gael23

I don’t believe you remain entitled to a free travel pass when you return to work, that’s only the medical card as far as I understand

Hilly Bill

AryaStark wrote: »

They can try all they like but its not allowed so its not a problem!

I know, that's my point. Some think it's a one card covers all instead of what's stated on the card. You also have the few that insists that they don't need to get a train ticket for that perticular journey when advised by station staff that they do. The line usually mentioned is "I have a pass, i don't need a ticket".

Hilly Bill

Gael23 wrote: »

I don’t believe you remain entitled to a free travel pass when you return to work, that’s only the medical card as far as I understand

Would it depend on the amount earned? I knew a chap in a wheelchair that wasn't allowed one because of his earnings.

Nomis21

At the moment if you are receiving a disability payment and start work you can keep the pass for three years but this is going up to 5 years later this year.

This encourages people with a disability to join the workforce and I think that is a good thing.

Kristopherus

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Would it depend on the amount earned? I knew a chap in a wheelchair that wasn't allowed one because of his earnings.

That would be because he lost the Welfare payment that entitled him to the pass.

Nomis21

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I know, that's my point. Some think it's a one card covers all instead of what's stated on the card. You also have the few that insists that they don't need to get a train ticket for that perticular journey when advised by station staff that they do. The line usually mentioned is "I have a pass, i don't need a ticket".

Some stations are unmanned so in that case FTP holders just enter the train without a ticket.

In fact all the barriers even at manned stations can be opened by placing the FTP on the barrier and it opens.

Why does it make any difference to you or anyone else whether an FTP holder asks for a free ticket at the ticket office or just gets on the train using the pass?

fritzelly

Nomis21 wrote: »

At the moment if you are receiving a disability payment and start work you can keep the pass for three years but this is going up to 5 years later this year.

This encourages people with a disability to join the workforce and I think that is a good thing.

BTWA scheme not a full time job outside of that remit

august12

Stheno wrote:

So you don't like being treated as a scammer but are going to keep your card now that you are earning?

Is this all you took from that wonderful post, I was enthralled reading it. Thank you to the OP for explaining the living nightmare anxiety, depression, cancer can cause and well done on your path to recovery, I for one do not deny you a free travel card, hope you continue on the path to full health and happiness.

Gatling

It should be a simple case of if your no longer entitled to a welfare payment secondary benefits should be also withdrawn ,
But that would mean someone in government making a real decision ,

Gael23

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Would it depend on the amount earned? I knew a chap in a wheelchair that wasn't allowed one because of his earnings.

Yes you can still get a reduced payment and work part time. I usd to know what three limit was but I’ve forgotten. I think it’s about €400 a week before tax. I know I was €3 over it when I started work

Mrs OBumble

Gatling wrote: »

It should be a simple case of if your no longer entitled to a welfare payment secondary benefits should be also withdrawn ,
But that would mean someone in government making a real decision ,

Nope that would not be a good thing. The idea is to encourage disadvantaged people into the workforce gently not have a sudden cutoff.

fritzelly

The amount earned is to do with how your payment is reduced over time. Nothing else once working full time
But someone who did this wouldn't surprise me to keep doing what he is doing, regardless the motivation. It's still fraud

Gael23

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nope that would not be a good thing. The idea is to encourage disadvantaged people into the workforce gently not have a sudden cutoff.

Agree with this, I lost my payment and my FTP straight away, even before I actually got my first pay Cheque. That was hard enough to deal with and if I lost my medical card too I would seriously think twice about working. I like my job and I want to work but it would be impossible to justify without that given my health problems

NinetyTwoTeam

Gatling wrote: »

It should be a simple case of if your no longer entitled to a welfare payment secondary benefits should be also withdrawn ,
But that would mean someone in government making a real decision ,

Spoken like someone who clearly doesn't understand how difficult it can be for people to transition from benefits to the workforce. When you're just scraping by on the minimum, you wont have savings so being cut off suddenly from everything will put up an obstacle for going back to work, especially considering how many places pay monthly now, and the fact that returning to work will incur costs for work clothing, commuting, possibly moving house.

This scheme is actually much better value for money than many others.

fritzelly

You can get help from the SWO til you get paid, not sure of the repayment scheme
People do it every day of the week

bebeman

Purchase a ticket if you dont want people looking down on you using a FTP.
What price does a person put on their dignity, for some not worth the price of a bus ticket., for others its not for sale

Emme

Nomis21 wrote: »

At the moment if you are receiving a disability payment and start work you can keep the pass for three years but this is going up to 5 years later this year.

This encourages people with a disability to join the workforce and I think that is a good thing.

Take into account the value of a free travel pass on top of whatever the person is earning and it could be worth an extra €3K a year depending on the length of the commute. People not receiving disability payments have to EARN the money to pay for their travel passes, even if they do get the benefit of Taxsaver. To add insult to injury, the lower paid on lower rates of tax have to pay more towards their Taxsaver ticket.

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

Spoken like someone who clearly doesn't understand how difficult it can be for people to transition from benefits to the workforce. When you're just scraping by on the minimum, you wont have savings so being cut off suddenly from everything will put up an obstacle for going back to work, especially considering how many places pay monthly now, and the fact that returning to work will incur costs for work clothing, commuting, possibly moving house.

This scheme is actually much better value for money than many others.

There are people who are working but are still scraping by on the minimum. I will be lambasted for this but there are people who work the benefits system in such a way that they are better off not working than working. One of the reasons it is so difficult for some people to transition from benefits to the workforce is that the benefits system is so generous that they need to earn a lot more than is offered in low-paid jobs to have the equivalent of what they can get on benefits.

n!ghtmancometh

5 years is a bit much. If someone transitioned from da to working and is still in that employment after a year (or two max) then I think it's fair enough to assume that they don't need the benefit of free travel anymore.

I pay over a thousand a year for a bus tax saver on my low wages and it does rankle that someone could be in a far higher paying job than me and still be availing of free travel years after returning to the workforce.

As for OP, I think you're overthinking things, but if it is getting under your skin that much just pay for your travel.

Xterminator

Hi Op

i think the majority of the people employed in transport industry are concerned about whether you have a valid card and its your card. IE detecting fraudulent use.I think the majority of passengers are concerned about getting home, how their day is going etc.

IE you are not their primary concern, and most don't even notice and the ones who do dont care much.

You are projecting your concerns onto others. Possibly you have had a couple of bad experiences that colour your thinking.

Nomis21

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I know, that's my point. Some think it's a one card covers all instead of what's stated on the card. You also have the few that insists that they don't need to get a train ticket for that perticular journey when advised by station staff that they do. The line usually mentioned is "I have a pass, i don't need a ticket".

Emme wrote: »

Take into account the value of a free travel pass on top of whatever the person is earning and it could be worth an extra €3K a year depending on the length of the commute. People not receiving disability payments have to EARN the money to pay for their travel passes, even if they do get the benefit of Taxsaver. To add insult to injury, the lower paid on lower rates of tax have to pay more towards their Taxsaver ticket.



There are people who are working but are still scraping by on the minimum. I will be lambasted for this but there are people who work the benefits system in such a way that they are better off not working than working. One of the reasons it is so difficult for some people to transition from benefits to the workforce is that the benefits system is so generous that they need to earn a lot more than is offered in low-paid jobs to have the equivalent of what they can get on benefits.

Well yes, very true, it usually does not pay to come off benefits, especially disability allowance, but that is the whole point of keeping FTP, Medical Card and HAP payments, so as to make it more worthwhile to get back into work. Isn't it?

bebeman

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi Op

I think the majority of passengers are concerned about getting home, how their day is going etc.

.

"i cant get a seat on a bus going home from a hard day work , full of FTP holders, can they not travel outside of peak and let working people get home, im paying top dollar for my ticket and subsidizing these free loaders."
Rough approximation of what paying passengers are thinking based of hundred of them standing beside the drivers cab and voicing their thoughts.
You dont have to like it, but this is the truth.

Emme

Nomis21 wrote: »

Well yes, very true, it usually does not pay to come off benefits, especially disability allowance, but that is the whole point of keeping FTP, Medical Card and HAP payments, so as to make it more worthwhile to get back into work. Isn't it?

If you're genuinely disabled you're not able to work so it shouldn't be an issue.

As for benefits while a person goes back to work, why should the taxpayer subsidise stingy employers paying the minimum wage? Just as we're subsidising multinationals who get away with paying hardly any tax but that's another topic.

bebeman wrote: »

"i cant get a seat on a bus going home from a hard day work , full of FTP holders, can they not travel outside of peak and let working people get home, im paying top dollar for my ticket and subsidizing these free loaders."
Rough approximation of what paying passengers are thinking based of hundred of them standing beside the drivers cab and voicing their thoughts.
You dont have to like it, but this is the truth.

That is exactly what some of them are thinking and they have a right to think it. If you have a long commute and work full time in a pressurised job it's not unreasonable to expect a seat on your journey to and from work. Some FTP holders are pensioners and entitled to it 100% but they do tend to travel at peak times. The problem is capacity, not the pensioners. At least they get up early in the morning and dress themselves properly unlike others who think pyjamas are appropriate daywear.

cython

Emme wrote: »

If you're genuinely disabled you're not able to work so it shouldn't be an issue.

That's a very bold and frankly offensive claim to make! Is someone in a wheelchair not "genuinely disabled"? A good friend of mine was rendered paraplegic in the last couple of years and would by pretty much all measures be considered disabled, unfortunately. However, he is still well capable of working at certain jobs (indeed he is returning to work shortly) - there would be next to nothing physically stopping him from doing my job, for example, given that the majority of my time is spent in front of a computer seated. Now perhaps you mean specifically someone who is on disability allowance, rather than someone who is disabled, but if so it's an important distinction you need to make.

Emme wrote: »

As for benefits while a person goes back to work, why should the taxpayer subsidise stingy employers paying the minimum wage? Just as we're subsidising multinationals who get away with paying hardly any tax but that's another topic.

Would you rather they pay the entirety of the person's cost of living for them to sit idly by, in addition to said benefits?

Emme wrote: »

That is exactly what some of them are thinking and they have a right to think it. If you have a long commute and work full time in a pressurised job it's not unreasonable to expect a seat on your journey to and from work. Some FTP holders are pensioners and entitled to it 100% but they do tend to travel at peak times. The problem is capacity, not the pensioners. At least they get up early in the morning and dress themselves properly unlike others who think pyjamas are appropriate daywear.

If they are thinking that, then they are completely overlooking the realities and logistics of their ticket - how many such ticketholders would be willing to restrict themselves to a single service each way per day, and if you miss that then your ticket is not valid, or at least does not afford you a seat? This is the reality of the online bookings with a seat reservation. The alternative is to reserve each of them a seat on all services on the line, which is obviously completely infeasible. You can't have it every way, I'm afraid.

Not to mention, none of this considers walk up fares which are likely the most expensive ones going, and are guaranteed precisely nothing, so the argument of how much you pay for your ticket falls flat on its face.

PeterParker957

bebeman wrote: »

"i cant get a seat on a bus going home from a hard day work , full of FTP holders, can they not travel outside of peak and let working people get home, im paying top dollar for my ticket and subsidizing these free loaders."
Rough approximation of what paying passengers are thinking based of hundred of them standing beside the drivers cab and voicing their thoughts.
You dont have to like it, but this is the truth.

I do hate to be the bearer of bad news but we can think what we like.

Just like last night when I happily daydreamed of the screaming brat across the aisle being sucked out the window by a T-rex and eaten slowly.

Emme

cython wrote: »

That's a very bold and frankly offensive claim to make! Is someone in a wheelchair not "genuinely disabled"? A good friend of mine was rendered paraplegic in the last couple of years and would by pretty much all measures be considered disabled, unfortunately. However, he is still well capable of working at certain jobs (indeed he is returning to work shortly) - there would be next to nothing physically stopping him from doing my job, for example, given that the majority of my time is spent in front of a computer seated. Now perhaps you mean specifically someone who is on disability allowance, rather than someone who is disabled, but if so it's an important distinction you need to make.

I mean somebody on disability allowance who may not be in a wheelchair or obviously incapacitated in any way. However some people can be incapacitated by chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia and other illnesses which are not immediately apparent.

A wheelchair user or somebody with limited mobility is genuinely disabled and entitled to all they get. However many of these people are very courageous and their determination to live a normal and productive life would put many able bodied people to shame.

magicbastarder

Emme wrote: »

If you have a long commute and work full time in a pressurised job it's not unreasonable to expect a seat on your journey to and from work.

expect? what has being a full time worker or being in a pressurised job got to do with 'expecting' a seat on public transport, in any way, shape or form?

it's called *public* transport for a reason. expecting a hierarchy on it based on perceived importance is beyond absurd.

Emme

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I do hate to be the bearer of bad news but we can think what we like.

Just like last night when I happily daydreamed of the screaming brat across the aisle being sucked out the window by a T-rex and eaten slowly.

Peter, we are only workers, aka serfs. Our purpose is to work ourselves to the bone and give away as much of our salary as possible in tax. We are not allowed to complain about our working or commuting conditions. Indeed we should happily give up our seats to those who don't need to work.

Hilly Bill

Emme wrote: »

Peter, we are only workers, aka serfs. Our purpose is to work ourselves to the bone and give away as much of our salary as possible in tax. We are not allowed to complain about our working or commuting conditions. Indeed we should happily give up our seats to those who don't need to work.

Now that's just strange

Hilly Bill

magicbastarder wrote: »

expect? what has being a full time worker or being in a pressurised job got to do with 'expecting' a seat on public transport, in any way, shape or form?

it's called *public* transport for a reason. expecting a hierarchy on it based on perceived importance is beyond absurd.

They will be looking for segregation from the unemployed next