Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Manion

Yep.

Red Silurian

Can anybody recommend an extension cable suitable for a granny cable, preferably a weather proof one? Picking up a leaf this week and need a solution to charge while I wait for the driveway to be extended and a wallbox installed

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475766#Comment_118475766

usually charge once a week, why?

Type 17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118487439#Comment_118487439

I tried a few of my existing off the shelf ones, but most of them have a thermal cutout, which I found triggered after about 15mins of 10amps continuous, so had to lower the charging rate on the car down to 7.5amps (ridiculously slow). I went a local electrical equipment trade counter (Eurosales in Dublin) and explained what I was up to - I brought the granny charger in case the guy wanted to know what I was using it with and explained that it would be running continuously for hours at a time. He checked the rating plate on it and gave me 10m (my chosen length) of wire rated for up to 20amps and a decent (rugged) plug and single socket (not waterproof, I didn't ask for it). He checked that the fat wire would fit into the cable-holes on the plug & socket (just), and reminded me to turn the cable grips over to accommodate the fatter than average size. I asked him should I bother tinning the wire-tips with solder, but he said no, just make sure that they're neat and fold the the exposed copper back on itself, so the screw goes into the 'hook' of wire filaments.

10m of wire and plug/socket cost €27.25 inc VAT, 20 mins to strip and assemble them properly.

Works perfectly at 10amps all day - the plug pins and house socket get warm, but not hot (you can hold on to the pins if you unplug when the car is at 70-80%, and charging at max available).

Edit: here's the cable he supplied (it's down the page a bit - H07RN-F, 3-core 2.5 square): https://www.eupen.com/cable/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/EUPEN%20H05%20H07%20RN-F%20Eucaflex%20Plus%20Eca%20Ed%2019%202019-08-07.pdf

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488190#Comment_118488190

Well done, it's exactly what I would have suggested. I had a dryer out in the shed temporarily during renovations and made up a cable for it like that.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488190#Comment_118488190

So I'll need one suited to 20 Amp you think? Good to know I'll pop into my hardware store and see what I can find, thanks for the advice

higster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488589#Comment_118488589

I got one of these, works grand (probably be told shouldn't but anyhow while I'm stuck waiting for home charger point....)

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/pro-xt-13a-1-gang-unswitched-extension-lead-10m/4097x

PS No experience of anything (plugs, sockets etc) getting hot or any tripping out

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488845#Comment_118488845

Yeah? It looks good on paper in fairness, 13A to carry a 10A charge is probably still safe right?

NIMAN

Got a question re: the grant for charge point install.

What is procedure re: certain brand?

Do you buy your own and have its cost + install cost covered within the €600?

Or does the installer simply land with one and fit it without any input from me?

higster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118489224#Comment_118489224

I’m no sparky (wouldn’t dream of doing one up like described earlier) but haven’t seen any problems and has been used for hours (including overnight) and again no warm sockets/plugs etc. I have tried extension leads I had in the house but tripped out after 20mins or so and they were warm (socket, plug and lead). Not alone on using for this purpose when look at reviews on screw fix. But your decision ultimately 😄

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118489620#Comment_118489620

Not a spark either so your solution certainly intrigues me, I wonder if there's any extensions you can get on the type 2 side of the charger, like a type 2 female to type 2 male that you can use with a granny or a tethered zappi, I think that could be handy if they existed

PN14

I think this was answered earlier in the thread I just couldn't find it but wondering if grant for charger can be applied for twice on same car i.e. 2 separate locations and MPRN nrs but will only be charging the one car ikywim.

I actually have grant applied and approved for home install but was looking to see if I could get a grant for another charger at a work premises that I would be travelling to weekly 300kms away.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490668#Comment_118490668

No, grant is for private residence only and only one per MPRN.

Commercial charge point has other incentives like the ACA scheme, which is detailed on the SEAI website, and of course they get the benefit of claiming the VAT also.

Sam the Sham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490808#Comment_118490808

It's also for the one car, which is a requirement. You can't get the grant unless you're also getting a car.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491116#Comment_118491116

You can get a grant at two separate properties with the same car.

handpref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491170#Comment_118491170

The SEAI site refers to singular installation-

The “charger” not chargers

“Properties” not property

Now if your on the money that means I can use the two spare chargers I have and put one in my in-laws and one at another relations house and get €1200 in grants …?

As it stands I was going to fit the charger that will be tied to the new car at the in laws- have the charger so should be fitted for another €250-€300 allowing for a priority switch.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491361#Comment_118491361

I’ve got the grant for 3 properties with the same car.

the car needs a change of address at the time of application.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491361#Comment_118491361

I am

handpref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491769#Comment_118491769

Sound- thanks Gumbo, great information.

The new car will be in the wife’s name -

The car will be registered to the house here in Meath, we have two chargers already- got one using the grant

1. When I apply for the grant can I use the address in Dublin/mprn even though the new car is registered to the home in Meath ?
2. When you changed the address on your vehicle registration did you just go through Shannon and notify them of the change ? (That is, were you changing the vehicle registration address to match the address you wanted the grant for the charger ? - if that’s the case could I for example change my current vehicle registration address to my in laws and apply for the grant at their address (even though I may have already made a grant application in my own name for that car previously )

Apologies for all the questions, I just don’t want to trip myself up on an application 👍🏻

Sam the Sham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491769#Comment_118491769

This strikes me as gaming the system. If you rang SEAI and told them what you were doing, I’m quite sure that they’d say that this is in violation of the Ts and Cs of the scheme. Particularly this one: “Only one EV charger may be installed at a property and only one EV Home Charger grant may be received per applicant.”

Yeah, sure, but the guy with three properties gets his wife and kid to apply while they pass the lone EV among them and we’re supposed to applaud this as if it’s any different from the tradesman who insists on cash only to avoid paying the revenue or the guy collecting the dole from multiple addresses.

This country…

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118492616#Comment_118492616

Depends on who you define as the applicant. If it's at a different property with a different owner then the criteria are fulfilled.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118492616#Comment_118492616

I rang them before doing it to ensure the same name wansnt a problem.

You know, some of us are driving EV since 2012 so we not just waltzing in here like yourself on a high horse.

All properties were mine and I lived in them at some stage since 2012. In fact, I still live in one of them.

And you cannot get your wife or kid to apply as the car must be in the applicants name. There’s no way you’d do a change of ownership as your adding an additional owner to the car then

So you can shove that up where the sun don’t shine, I’m off to collect my dole

Type 17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118489224#Comment_118489224

If you're using a 13A rated cable/device for 10A continuous, that's about the safe limit for continuous use (which is why most granny chargers are 'only' 10A) - the concept of "13A max load" that is written on electrical stuff is that it is assumed that it is not continuous - it's assumed that you won't run an eg: welder for hours at a time, and when there's a good chance of that happening, with an electric cooker (long roasting/baking times in the oven), it is given its own individual (and usually 15A) circuit, rather than being allowed to share a ring circuit with other sockets/devices.

The wire I was given is rated up to 20A, but that's probably overkill, but it's easier to overspec, didn't affect the price too much, and is very durable for outdoor use (thick, tough, but soft and flexible rubber insulation), so still a good choice overall - the key thing is that it's not too small a cross-section (each of the three wires is 2.5mm cross-sectional area) - too small a cross-section for the current would mean the wire would get hot, which would be inefficient (higher resistance) and dangerous (overheating/melting of insulation in extreme cases).

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118492616#Comment_118492616

I don't get this really. I'm reading of the T and C's was that you could get one charger per property for a given EV and applicant. People have spoken about getting a second charger on grant for a second car at the same property or a grant for second hand cars. You supply the car details, the property details and your details. You have to be the owner of the vichele for the normal grant. If this was against T and C as you claim surely it would be caught immediately.

Sam the Sham

What does “only one … charger grant may be received per applicant” mean?

Does an applicant who receives 3 charger grants comply with that condition?

It hinges on whether a person making three applications counts as one applicant or three. Is an “applicant” a person or an application by a person?

Also, from the SEAI website:

• The vehicle has to be registered to the applicant and to the address of the property where the home charger is being installed (unless this is a Company Vehicle application).

Would an individual, not a company, who used a single EV to apply for grants to install chargers at multiple properties be in compliance with this? How did the log book manage to match all of the addresses? Because the car registration address was changed expressly for this purpose?

Would it be acceptable to do this with 20 properties, changing the log book of the car each time?

Certainly a violation of the spirit of the scheme if not the letter.

Manion

I guess that's just your opinion. All the necessary information to comply with the terms has to be provided and the decision maker is SEAI. Information is not being withheld, fraud is not happening.

As for the spirit, we'll have to look back at what government policies the scheme is promoting. It has to work for everyone, not just home owners. You change address you're meant to change the log book, failure to do so can have serious consequences. I've lived in 3 properties since 2011, if I'd a leaf back then I two would have applied for 3 grants by now.

I know a couple who have bought their first electric car while in rental accomodation and are applying for the grant. I'm sure if they move in a couple years time to their own property or still renting, they won't be swapping car and will apply again for the the grant at a new house. Far from being against the spirit I'd say the scheme is set up for this.

Frankly this is how all these grants work, if your circumstances change you can apply again. I'm in a position where I own two properties, I can apply for the SEAI solar grant on both.

I think you read a lot into the posters post that wasn't there, it still an expense to get a charger. People aren't just fiddling log books to get chargers installed in places they don't live for the craic. This isn't cash for ash. At the margins you're probably getting people installing secondary chargers they otherwise wouldn't but you don't execute national public policy based on the margins.

slave1

What does “only one … charger grant may be received per applicant” mean?

Does an applicant who receives 3 charger grants comply with that condition?

That first line could easily be interpreted as being you can only apply for one home charge point on this application, should you move house you can only apply for one home change point on that application and so on.

It's not your (or my) call on this, it's the SEAI.

Personally, I have availed of the home charger grant for my install, should I move house in the morning I would apply for it again and I've no reservation on that as it does not explicitly state anywhere that an individual can only receive grant assistance once over their lifetime.

Lest not forget that was I to move, my current address would have a change point installed and that is the overall "spirit" of the scheme, to assist home charge points installs

handpref

Thanks Gumbo, I appreciate the advice and am happy now knowing that it is all part of due process and in line with the SEAI conditions. Every new charger installed can only be of benefit.

Its very proactive of the SEAI to understand that not everybody will live their life in the same house and that having a home charger is essential when owning an EV.

It will also benefit the new home owner, however they will not be able to avail of the scheme because that house/mprn received its allocated charged grant, so no gaming allowed. Its hardly gaming the system if it breaks no rules. Nobody is making money from it that is not legitimate.

Apologies if you took some unwanted flack for giving good advice- people installing legitimate charge points in line with guidelines and with the express permission of the SEAI should be commended for their continued and progressive development of Irelands EV infrastructure.

When I think of gaming the system in Ireland people installing officially sanctioned, certified and legitimate car chargers are not what comes to mind-

rodge123

Interesting info in last few pages on having multiple property installs.

Hoping to have i4 40 in April and looking into home chargers. Was thinking of getting one for our house in Meath and another at the in-laws in limerick…we go down at least twice a month.

Any tips on what home charger to get? Don’t have a clue about brands, features, etccc.

Love my tech so ideally something that can be easily controlled via an app.

Not 100% whether I’ll be putting it on a house wall (nice stonework) or have to have some stand made up for it to go onto at edge of driveway. Or maybe some of them come as free standing chargers?

Manion

Well, to be clear, it needs to be a property the car is registered at to get the grant. So you would have to reregister the car at each of those properties. I'll not jump to any conclusion but remember the log book is used by revenue to manage motor tax payments to councils, so it's a very official document.

Anyway, the Zappi is recommended a lot interns of smart chargers. The hypervolt is probably the most nerdy as it has a raspberry pie inside so has potential to run a lot of apps including custom one. I've an Andersen SE again with an app and lots of features. For mounting on a pedestal you've lots of options as well.