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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

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    #212
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    Anthracite wrote: »
    If you chose to answer a simple question, no assumptions would be needed.

    Look, you seem like a nice fella and I wish you well. I'm just falling back into old habits, having spent years on boards and elsewhere trying to warn people about the property bubble. I hate to see it happening again.

    I get what youre doing and I appreciate it. Don't take my comments to be angry. At the end of the day fools rush in and me and a lot of people here aren't fools


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    #213
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    lifeandtimes wrote: »
    I've seen your comments all over this forum johnny, you have some hatred for crypto. I'm sure a lot people felt the same when the stock market first took off.

    I wish everyone well in this market and always trust your gut, trade what you can afford to lose and get out when you can

    No hatred for crypto. Just spelling out that the inherent value of all these coins is 0. I wouldn’t like to see people lose money they cannot afford to buy an ‘asset’ that was created by some Chinese dude who downloaded the source code, entered a value for the number of coins he was going to create, then launched a site with lies about partnerships, a badly written white paper, and a roadmap that is all vagueries about future developments. It’s a classic pump and dump that’s going on. It’s not even a clever scam. Just don’t be the bag holder when this house of cards coming crashing down. And it will.


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    #214
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    The inherent value of a euro is 0, well you could count the 2% of gold held in relation to the euro but best or luck getting that out of Hans.

    If you are buying some crypto which isn't safe it's probably fair to say what ever chance you have buy the top 4

    Bitcoin
    Etherum
    Bitcoin Cash
    Litecoin


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    #215
    Dr Bolouswki
    Registered Users Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭Dr Bolouswki


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Just spelling out that the inherent value of all these coins is 0.

    The use of the word "all" here seems a bit hyperbolic. It depends how the generation, utility of and fundamental use of the coin is intended. None of the serious projects are intended to replace Fiat. Arguing that they will never replace Fiat completely misses the point of many of them and illustrates a limited understanding of what they do. I agree its been a bubble, I agree many of the coins are ill-conceived, some of them are scams etc. - you are right on all those counts. But don't undermine the good points you make by dismissing the entire notion as ill-conceived.


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    #216
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Dr Bolouswki wrote: »
    The use of the word "all" here seems a bit hyperbolic. It depends how the generation, utility of and fundamental use of the coin is intended. None of the serious projects are intended to replace Fiat. Arguing that they will never replace Fiat completely misses the point of many of them and illustrates a limited understanding of what they do. I agree its been a bubble, I agree many of the coins are ill-conceived, some of them are scams etc. - you are right on all those counts. But don't undermine the good points you make by dismissing the entire notion as ill-conceived.

    So say some group create a coin intended to be used for enabling smart contracts between landlords and tenants -cutting out the estate agent. Grand. Can’t see an immediate use for such tech, but the idea is sound. How does you holding a number of their coins allow you to contribute to the business model? Why are those coins worth what they are worth, and how will you derive a profit from them? These coins can be created by downloading code and setting a variable. They can create an infinite amount and variation of coins. There’s no inherent value in any of them. The only value at the moment is that you hope us=ome other bucko is prepared to pay more money for you for this coin that was created out of thin air. And no , that’s no way comparable to fiat currency.


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    #217
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    So say some group create a coin intended to be used for enabling smart contracts between landlords and tenants -cutting out the estate agent. Grand. Can’t see an immediate use for such tech, but the idea is sound. How does you holding a number of their coins allow you to contribute to the business model? Why are those coins worth what they are worth, and how will you derive a profit from them? These coins can be created by downloading code and setting a variable. They can create an infinite amount and variation of coins. There’s no inherent value in any of them. The only value at the moment is that you hope us=ome other bucko is prepared to pay more money for you for this coin that was created out of thin air. And no , that’s no way comparable to fiat currency.

    Flat currency is exactly the same. Its only value is that which other people believe it has.

    Plenty of flat currencies have collapsed even when backed by major powers at the time.


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    #218
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    https://twitter.com/iamjosephyoung/status/959895260410216448


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    #219
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    dubrov wrote: »
    Flat currency is exactly the same. Its only value is that which other people believe it has.

    Plenty of flat currencies have collapsed even when backed by major powers at the time.

    The Euro is backed by an economy, trade and elastic markets. A new coin is created by downloading some code, deciding how many you will create, getting someone to give you another coin that has a perceived higher value for a number of these coins, then cashing them out into real money asap.

    Ripple is valued at 36 billion dollars. No bank will ever use this coin. They might use ripples technology stack, but why would they ever use the coin? No one has ever answered how the banks would use this xrp, how the holders would benefit by having these xrp coins, and how these coins would construe some sort of ownership of the market that 3ould exist as a result. I can download the ripple code at the moment and create xrp2. And so can banks.

    0 value. Nada. Nothing. Zilch.


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    #220
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    The Euro is not backed by any of those things. It is backed by the people and if people stopped accepting it for exchange of goods/services, it would instantly worth zero whatever the central bank says.

    The central banks can create currency at the stroke of a key.
    The money in your bank account is no more real than a ripple code.


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    #221
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    dubrov wrote: »
    The Euro is not backed by any of those things. It is backed by the people and if people stopped accepting it for exchange of goods/services, it would instantly worth zero whatever the central bank says.

    The central banks can create currency at the stroke of a key.
    The money in your bank account is no more real than a ripple code.

    Got me 20 benson and 8 cans of Guinness in tesco 15 minutes ago. Get back to me when I can do that with a coin that any punter can magic of thin air. The only thing backing the value of coins at the moment is the assumption someone will pay more than you for it.


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    #222
    Autochange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭Autochange


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Got me 20 benson and 8 cans of Guinness in tesco 15 minutes ago. Get back to me when I can do that with a coin that any punter can magic of thin air. The only thing backing the value of coins at the moment is the assumption someone will pay more than you for it.

    https://www.cryptodechange.com/product/tesco/

    Whats the tax rate on your fags and booze?


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    #223
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    You could make the same argument about USD in Ireland.
    The shop won't accept it. Plenty of other places will though.

    Do you think that has zero value too?


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    #224
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Got me 20 benson and 8 cans of Guinness in tesco 15 minutes ago. Get back to me when I can do that with a coin that any punter can magic of thin air. The only thing backing the value of coins at the moment is the assumption someone will pay more than you for it.

    If all your going to do is post complete negative stuff about crypto what are you doing here? Youre not doing a public service.

    Also yes anyone can make a coin, no one will just buy any coin, too many available coins of a specific coin will devalue the coin itself this making is pointless to make an unlimited number, however people pay fiat in exchange for coins, plenty of places are accepting these coins for goods and services, thus giving them real world value so you argument is null.

    The second people accept this coins for good and services is the second they become of value without the need of a middle man and that was satoshis dream come true


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    #225
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    lifeandtimes wrote: »
    If all your going to do is post complete negative stuff about crypto what are you doing here? Youre not doing a public service.

    Also yes anyone can make a coin, no one will just buy any coin, too many available coins of a specific coin will devalue the coin itself this making is pointless to make an unlimited number, however people pay fiat in exchange for coins, plenty of places are accepting these coins for goods and services, thus giving them real world value so you argument is null.

    The second people accept this coins for good and services is the second they become of value without the need of a middle man and that was satoshis dream come true

    I’m fascinated with the whole thing to be honest. Even the language used is interesting, hodl, lambo, moon. Anything that isn’t going on about how wonderful this all is is dismissed as negativity. If I had any knowledge of computers and programming then i’d be creating a coin - maybe for payments between consumers and farmers without the supermarket. Copy an auld whitepaper, stick up a few photos of the ‘team’, pretend I’m partnering with farmers unions and supermarket chains, create an ico, generate a bit of hype on Twitter, pretend to have a summit, issue a vague roadmap, get punters to give me ether for the coins I magiced out of my hole, then convert that to euros fairly rapid.
    I’ve dealt with the Chinese before. Cute fùckers. They must be kicking themselves at how easy all this is. Magic beans into money in a few steps.


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    #226
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    I’m fascinated with the whole thing to be honest. Even the language used is interesting, hodl, lambo, moon

    Bar hodl(which is done as a joke due a to misspelling from aomeone years ago) the rest are used by immature and newbies who have no idea what they're doing. Seasoned investors cringe seeing those types of comments
    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    maybe for payments between consumers and farmers without the supermarket. Copy an auld whitepaper, stick up a few photos of the ‘team’, pretend I’m partnering with farmers unions and supermarket chains, create an ico, generate a bit of hype on Twitter, pretend to have a summit, issue a vague roadmap, get punters to give me ether for the coins I magiced out of my hole, then convert that to euros fairly rapid.

    You've been beaten to it, it's called pineapple coin


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    #227
    Shauny2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Shauny2010


    To quote Jack Ma ( Yes he's Chinese and one of the smartest people on the planet, started Alibaba, Aliexpress, Alipay etc)

    If you don't know or understand something is not shameful
    but where you don't know and yet pretend to know is very shameful
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsQSWqCbqhY


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    #228
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Shauny2010 wrote: »
    To quote Jack Ma ( Yes he's Chinese and one of the smartest people on the planet, started Alibaba, Aliexpress, Alipay etc)

    If you don't know or understand something is not shameful
    but where you don't know and yet pretend to know is very shameful
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsQSWqCbqhY

    Watched that, and he spoke for about a minute on the topic. And he expressed an interest in the tech behind bitcoin - blockchain. Agreed on that. Decentralized systems like that are radical. Don’t see how some chancer creating an ICO and hyping a coin before dumping it all for cash tied in with his vision though.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-02/roubini-says-bitcoin-is-the-biggest-bubble-in-human-history


    Another video there to chew over horse...


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    #229
    Anthracite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Anthracite


    Shauny2010 wrote: »
    To quote Jack Ma ( Yes he's Chinese and one of the smartest people on the planet, started Alibaba, Aliexpress, Alipay etc)

    If you don't know or understand something is not shameful
    but where you don't know and yet pretend to know is very shameful
    Was he talking about cryptocurrency or asset bubbles?


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    #230
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    JohnnyFlash wrote:
    If I had any knowledge of computers and programming then i’d be creating a coin - maybe for payments between consumers and farmers without the supermarket. Copy an auld whitepaper, stick up a few photos of the ‘team’, pretend I’m partnering with farmers unions and supermarket chains, create an ico, generate a bit of hype on Twitter ...

    How is cutting out supermarkets in any way relevant? We are talking currencies here, not new business models.

    There is nothing stopping you creating a new currency. Good luck with getting anyone to believe it has ant value though.


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    #231
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Don’t see how some chancer creating an ICO and hyping a coin before dumping it all for cash tied in with his vision though.
    Yes, anyone can create a virtual currency now. Get used to it. You seem obsessed with this fact. So what? Some coins will have intrinsic value and characteristics which mean that people believe in them. Others will have nothing....like the one you're going on about. Are many of the crypto's created a waste of space? - sure. Again, so what. Do you want to castigate those who have bought them? Again, no problem - I do to....but you are including the good with the bad in that.
    There are serious projects with very talented people behind them in some cases. They all have to be evaluated. You dismiss them all without any consideration - that's not intelligent.

    You were told - how many times now? - ANY currency is only of value if the public sentiment and belief is there behind it. You countered with 'what currency can buy this?' which body stepped the point. A USD or a Euro can only buy something because people believe that this piece of paper has some value. Other than that, it's just a piece of paper.

    You said that the euro was backed by this and that. That's the whole point here. Look up the meaning of FIAT - how FIAT currency came to be known as FIAT currency. Here's a hint - it's since the gold standard was dropped. When the gold standard existed, a currency may have been backed by something. Right now, FIAT is not.
    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Another video there to chew over horse...
    I don't have to eat horse...at least not since I cashed out my cryptocurrency with a 4000% gain....ribeye steak for me every night but thanks anyways...:D


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    #232
    Shauny2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Shauny2010


    dubrov wrote: »
    How is cutting out supermarkets in any way relevant? We are talking currencies here, not new business models.

    There is nothing stopping you creating a new currency. Good luck with getting anyone to believe it has ant value though.

    No we are talking about the understanding of crypto currencies. Most people here can spot the difference between a ponzi shill coin and something with real value and effort.
    I say most people because their is always a few who get carried by hype, shilling, BS etc and fail to do the least amount of research on what they are getting.
    This is not a new phenomena, look back in history you will see scams, from the TV game shows of the 1950s that were rigged and the contestants were given the answers. Hence the Wallstreet term "Gaming the Market"
    The Newspapers if the late 1920s and 30s printing fake Business reports etc
    Your argument is an old one I'm afraid


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    #233
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    makeorbrake wrote: »
    Yes, anyone can create a virtual currency now. Get used to it. You seem obsessed with this fact. So what? Some coins will have intrinsic value and characteristics which mean that people believe in them. Others will have nothing....like the one you're going on about. Are many of the crypto's created a waste of space? - sure. Again, so what. Do you want to castigate those who have bought them? Again, no problem - I do to....but you are including the good with the bad in that.
    There are serious projects with very talented people behind them in some cases. They all have to be evaluated. You dismiss them all without any consideration - that's not intelligent.

    You were told - how many times now? - ANY currency is only of value if the public sentiment and belief is there behind it. You countered with 'what currency can buy this?' which body stepped the point. A USD or a Euro can only buy something because people believe that this piece of paper has some value. Other than that, it's just a piece of paper.

    You said that the euro was backed by this and that. That's the whole point here. Look up the meaning of FIAT - how FIAT currency came to be known as FIAT currency. Here's a hint - it's since the gold standard was dropped. When the gold standard existed, a currency may have been backed by something. Right now, FIAT is not.

    I don't have to eat horse...at least not since I cashed out my cryptocurrency with a 4000% gain....ribeye steak for me every night but thanks anyways...:D

    hope you put a fair amount in to maximise that 40 times return ;)


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    #234
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    ZeroThreat wrote: »
    hope you put a fair amount in to maximise that 40 times return ;)
    I'm not complaining. I write this from the tropics, can hear the waves of the Ocean crash against the shore - it's financing a year away from the day job. Had I been in a position to cash out a few weeks earlier, we would have been talking about an 80 fold gain ...in which case I didn't plan on going back to the day job.

    As it stands, looks like I'm going back...but I'm not exactly feeling sorry for myself :-)


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    #235
    Autochange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭Autochange


    makeorbrake wrote: »
    I'm not complaining. I write this from the tropics, can hear the waves of the Ocean crash against the shore - it's financing a year away from the day job. Had I been in a position to cash out a few weeks earlier, we would have been talking about an 80 fold gain ...in which case I didn't plan on going back to the day job.

    As it stands, looks like I'm going back...but I'm not exactly feeling sorry for myself :-)

    Your Ip address puts you in a caravan outside Gort


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    #236
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Shauny2010 wrote:
    No we are talking about the understanding of crypto currencies. Most people here can spot the difference between a ponzi shill coin and something with real value and effort. I say most people because their is always a few who get carried by hype, shilling, BS etc and fail to do the least amount of research on what they are getting. This is not a new phenomena, look back in history you will see scams, from the TV game shows of the 1950s that were rigged and the contestants were given the answers. Hence the Wallstreet term "Gaming the Market" The Newspapers if the late 1920s and 30s printing fake Business reports etc Your argument is an old one I'm afraid

    Shauny2010 wrote:
    No we are talking about the understanding of crypto currencies. Most people here can spot the difference between a ponzi shill coin and something with real value and effort. I say most people because their is always a few who get carried by hype, shilling, BS etc and fail to do the least amount of research on what they are getting. This is not a new phenomena, look back in history you will see scams, from the TV game shows of the 1950s that were rigged and the contestants were given the answers. Hence the Wallstreet term "Gaming the Market" The Newspapers if the late 1920s and 30s printing fake Business reports etc Your argument is an old one I'm afraid

    Shauny2010 wrote:
    No we are talking about the understanding of crypto currencies. Most people here can spot the difference between a ponzi shill coin and something with real value and effort. I say most people because their is always a few who get carried by hype, shilling, BS etc and fail to do the least amount of research on what they are getting. This is not a new phenomena, look back in history you will see scams, from the TV game shows of the 1950s that were rigged and the contestants were given the answers. Hence the Wallstreet term "Gaming the Market" The Newspapers if the late 1920s and 30s printing fake Business reports etc Your argument is an old one I'm afraid

    I'm guessing you thought my argument was that all cryptos are worthless because anyone can make one up. It wasn't.


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    #237
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Autochange wrote: »
    Your Ip address puts you in a caravan outside Gort
    Really? I didn't know my VPN service had a hub in a caravan outside of Gort? :D

    If I am, it's a big caravan and the weather in Gort has turned quite tropical. Meh - that would be the Brazilian influence down there...


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    #238
    Dr Bolouswki
    Registered Users Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭Dr Bolouswki


    Ethereum is a platform. A platform that applications work on. Distributed applications. In order to ensure that the platform remains functional, it requires resources to contribute to that functionality. Those resources are a combination of non-users and users. In order to reward these parties for contributing their resources, they receive block rewards. Those block rewards are called Ethereum. That is the "currency" of their reward. Non-users who get this reward are called "miners". Users who use the Ethereum network use up a resource called "gas" which is a by-product of Ethereum. By this method, the "currency" required to power the network has an inherent value to the very applications that require the network to function.

    It is not created out of thin air, it is not worth zero, nada, zilch. It is a measurement of value of a service being provided. Perhaps lend a thought to intelligence being the currency of discourse, and recognise that it's possible to be broke without even knowing it.


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    #239
    The One Doctor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    I moved all my Bitcoin into alts over the last few weeks. Turned off all my alerts and just get a single email with my Bitcoin balance every day.

    Obsessing never helps.


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    #240
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    The One Doctor wrote: »
    just get a single email with my Bitcoin balance every day.

    How did you set that up?

    Edit: nevermind I figured it out


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    #241
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    Dr Bolouswki wrote: »
    Ethereum is a platform....recognise that it's possible to be broke without even knowing it.

    He won't understand a word of what you're saying.

    To the plebs who decide these are worthless without a second of research you can just fork any coin at any time and own a platform with equal value - they don't see the value in having the devs ETH has on board, the eco-system that ETH is surrounded by, the Fortune 500 companies who're already spending real cash on either using or investigating uses for the platform.

    It's the epitomy of ignorance but I can understand why they don't see it happening in front of their eyes. In a perfect world they wouldn't even notice the changeover, but here they are watching it slowly unfold and they think it's the end of times.

    Any financial middlemen and any services built on trust of a solitary third party are well and truly fúcked and people like JohnnyFlash don't understand why. It understandable because they refuse to research it.

    Is crypto filled with bubbles?
    Yep.
    Has it reached it's final form?
    Very very very far away from that happening. We're trillions of dollars away from the peak.


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