2018-2027 National Development Plan

marno21 · 04-01-2019 1:07am

HabibiLibnen · 04-01-2019 3:38am

I think the major obstacle is Ross tbh. He's holding up the N4 in Sligo for no good reason. He's tight and when you're minister for transport, being tight means nothing happens.

I honestly cannot fathom how Varadkar, who himself showed a degree of pragmatism as Minister for Transport in bad times, has left this laissez faire libertarian in office for so long. I'm hoping he'll be shifted asap.

In terms of planning, we really are painfully slow at getting from design through to planning and tender stages in everything from building schools to metros. It's simply not good enough to claim this is the procedure and it takes time, consultations blah blah blah. Other countries are much quicker and that's simply the reality.

TII are under resourced as is ABP which now has to deal with every housing scheme of 100 units or more. I try to be balanced but I'm really becoming frustrated with Fine Gael's lack of foresight when they decide to cancel, suspend or hold up national infrastructure. Capital spending is an investment and not a mismanagement of resources.

We have an excellent case in seeking funding from the EU and EIB in order to equip ourselves for Brexit and yes, for rebuilding our economy and taking our medicine during the recession. It happens to be a time of historically low interest rates. Fine Gael hasn't the wherewithal to do this, instead wasting time on pointless referenda on blasphemy and now extending the vote to a pointless presidency.

We are facing a complete grind to a halt situation in Dublin, Cork and Galway within the next 3 years while the regions languish with 19th century road alignments. I do pity the likes of Noel Rock, Alan Farrell and Michael Ring who have a bit of gusto to get things done but will have to face their electorate yet again in less than a year and explain why x, y and z will definitely be dealt with in the coming 5 years.

Coming up to 100 years of independence, a bit of vision and ambition would be most welcome from government.

steeler j · 04-01-2019 1:53pm

a lot of schemes after 2022,can some of them be fast tracked as nothing much is happening between now and then .For the money it would have costed maybe some of the work should have been done already and have a few more ready to go in 2020

neiljung · 04-01-2019 4:43pm

What do the TII allocations cover? Do they include the contractor construction costs?

Taking Coollooney and Dunkettle the allocations look too small to cover construction but way too much to cover consultancy etc. given that planning and design are complete?

No mention of Enniscorthy or New Ross, or are they PPP and only paid for once complete?

HabibiLibnen · 04-01-2019 4:47pm

I believe that's the allocation for year 1 of the total length of the scheme. So they allocate a sum for each year of the duration of construction. For example, the 23 million for the N4 will cover construction costs for 2019.

RichardoKhan · 04-01-2019 7:00pm

Anyone know what the 400k towards the Clonee M3 - M50 will be? Guessing intial designs?

Chris_5339762 · 04-01-2019 7:02pm

M20/M40 Cork-Limerick 2,150,000

Question. Did you call it M20/M40, or did you copy/paste that from documentation? That little detail would be important as its either the M20 on its own, or the M20 with part of Corks North Ring included.

marno21 · 04-01-2019 7:07pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Question. Did you call it M20/M40, or did you copy/paste that from documentation? That little detail would be important as its either the M20 on its own, or the M20 with part of Corks North Ring included.

I called it that. There was no separate M40 North Ring allocation and the M20 project includes the North Ring between Killeens and Glanmire so it seems they will be done in tandem planning and funding wise

Rulmeq · 04-01-2019 7:44pm

Do you have any documentation on the M7 J28 upgrade?

marno21 · 04-01-2019 8:32pm

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

I think the major obstacle is Ross tbh. He's holding up the N4 in Sligo for no good reason. He's tight and when you're minister for transport, being tight means nothing happens.

Tight and seriously disinterested. Why push on a project in Sligo designed mainly about improving safety when you can go on a solo run about speeding.

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

I honestly cannot fathom how Varadkar, who himself showed a degree of pragmatism as Minister for Transport in bad times, has left this laissez faire libertarian in office for so long. I'm hoping he'll be shifted asap.

It would be wonderful if Ross was moved to another department in the summer where there will be less consequences from his total incompetence but then he'd miss out on the Rugby World Cup junket so I suppose that rules that out.

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

In terms of planning, we really are painfully slow at getting from design through to planning and tender stages in everything from building schools to metros. It's simply not good enough to claim this is the procedure and it takes time, consultations blah blah blah. Other countries are much quicker and that's simply the reality.

Totally at the foot of under-resourcing and under-funding of TII and the regional RDOs. In 2015 there was circa 15 projects in planning. Now there is 45 or so, along with a large tranche of minor schemes. These need resources to be handled which are not there.

Look at the funding for most of the schemes above and see for comparison. There is 100k allocated to a 1.1km realignment in Kerry (N72 Stagmount) and 200k allocated to a 55km dual carriageway project in Mayo/Sligo (N17). What is 200k in a year going to do for that project? It should be at least 10 times that.

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

TII are under resourced as is ABP which now has to deal with every housing scheme of 100 units or more. I try to be balanced but I'm really becoming frustrated with Fine Gael's lack of foresight when they decide to cancel, suspend or hold up national infrastructure. Capital spending is an investment and not a mismanagement of resources.

Agreed. ABP are under serious pressure also now with these housing developments and also the volume of appeals they are getting as before. Planning reform would really help here but who has the appetite for that.

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

We are facing a complete grind to a halt situation in Dublin, Cork and Galway within the next 3 years while the regions languish with 19th century road alignments. I do pity the likes of Noel Rock, Alan Farrell and Michael Ring who have a bit of gusto to get things done but will have to face their electorate yet again in less than a year and explain why x, y and z will definitely be dealt with in the coming 5 years.

Coming up to 100 years of independence, a bit of vision and ambition would be most welcome from government.

Cork Transport Strategy out in the next few weeks. Lets see if it's matched with investment. Having a competent body (the NTA) in charge of transport planning is a relatively new phenomenon in Ireland. However, ideas need to be matched with funding.

steeler j wrote: »

a lot of schemes after 2022,can some of them be fast tracked as nothing much is happening between now and then .For the money it would have costed maybe some of the work should have been done already and have a few more ready to go in 2020

The easiest solution here would have been to start planning for these in 2015/16 when TII were shouting from the rooftops that there is a shortage of national road schemes in planning and that there would be a time around 2022 when no amount of money would be useful because the projects are stuck in various stages of planning. Now look at the chickens coming home to roost. The 20 or so pipeline schemes have ~€10m allocated to them in 2019 for design & planning. I will happily argue with anyone who will tell me that that was not affordable in 2015.

neiljung wrote: »

What do the TII allocations cover? Do they include the contractor construction costs?

Taking Coollooney and Dunkettle the allocations look too small to cover construction but way too much to cover consultancy etc. given that planning and design are complete?

No mention of Enniscorthy or New Ross, or are they PPP and only paid for once complete?

The allocations cover the required (or don't cover in most cases) elements for the project for that year. For the M20 for example it's for Phases 1/2 (feasibility/scope/options selection). For the N4/Dunkettle it's construction.

PPPs are dealt with separately.

RichardoKhan wrote: »

Anyone know what the 400k towards the Clonee M3 - M50 will be? Guessing intial designs?

Initial planning & options selection. I would imagine 400k won't do too much though.

Rulmeq wrote: »

Do you have any documentation on the M7 J28 upgrade?

Unfortunately not, but with 25k allocated there won't be much done this year.

Roadrunner99 · 04-01-2019 8:43pm

15 millon allocated to the ballyvourney/macroom bypass is that for advance works or for the construction of this road in the 2nd half of this year?

marno21 · 04-01-2019 8:56pm

Roadrunner99 wrote: »

15 millon allocated to the ballyvourney/macroom bypass is that for advance works or for the construction of this road in the 2nd half of this year?

Both im assuming but construction will be the bulk of it

Can't wait for it to start

steeler j · 05-01-2019 11:21pm

how far can u go with 500,000 on these projects

marno21 · 06-01-2019 12:30am

steeler j wrote: »

how far can u go with 500,000 on these projects

Any scheme in particular?

steeler j · 06-01-2019 3:55pm

the 2 n24 and the n22

JupiterKid · 06-01-2019 6:59pm

I posted up a thread up on this appalling lack of any real movement at all on the the road schemes in planning on this forum a few months back.

The backlog at this stage is a complete scandal and is beyond a joke. Ross is completely unfit for purpose as Transport minister.

Coupled with a serious housing crisis where hard working well earning families can’t have a hope of affording a house and will struggle to rent, with Eoghan Murphy, another minister completely unfit for purpose, it is clear that we have a so-called government with no vision and no long-term strategic thinking. All the more alarming with Brexit almost here.

We need a change of government and we we need it ASAP.

marno21 · 06-01-2019 7:03pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

I posted up a thread up on this appalling lack of any real movement at all on the the road schemes in planning on this forum a few months back.

The backlog at this stage is a complete scandal and is beyond a joke. Ross is completely unfit for purpose as Transport minister.

Coupled with a serious housing crisis where hard working well earning families can’t have a hope of affording a house and will struggle to rent, with Eoghan Murphy, another minister completely unfit for purpose, it is clear that we have a so-called government with no vision and no long-term strategic thinking. All the more alarming with Brexit almost here.

We need a change of government and we we need it ASAP.

The funding allocations above for most schemes don't fill me with much confidence for 2019 either. It's been made clear here that Ross's lack of interest is holding up the N4 dualling in Sligo and has likely delayed it by 2+ months, as if it wasn't delayed enough already.

The allocations for many of the above schemes could be doubled for 2019 and it still wouldn't be enough.

Then again, there have been enough warnings about this:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/monday-interview-we-are-underinvesting-in-our-roads-by-120m-a-year-tii-chief-35193659.html

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/roads-going-nowhere-stark-warning-over-progress-on-transport-36630662.html

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/large-parts-of-road-network-will-be-20pc-above-capacity-by-2030-35237743.html

prunudo · 06-01-2019 7:11pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

I posted up a thread up on this appalling lack of any real movement at all on the the road schemes in planning on this forum a few months back.

The backlog at this stage is a complete scandal and is beyond a joke. Ross is completely unfit for purpose as Transport minister.

Coupled with a serious housing crisis where hard working well earning families can’t have a hope of affording a house and will struggle to rent, with Eoghan Murphy, another minister completely unfit for purpose, it is clear that we have a so-called government with no vision and no long-term strategic thinking. All the more alarming with Brexit almost here.

We need a change of government and we we need it ASAP.

100% agree, I really believe they are sleepwalking into a huge infrastructure deficit. Not just roads but everything. Rail, public transport, water, sewerage, housing all needs huge investment. And they don't seem to see it at all.

Ps. Id also add schools and leisure facilities to the above paragraph too.

Bards · 06-01-2019 8:55pm

They don't care as long as they get re-elected at the end of the current electoral cycle...

HabibiLibnen · 06-01-2019 11:32pm

We get what we vote for in Ireland, it's that simple. Fine Gael are great at fiscal discipline but useless at investment. Fianna Fáil have great ideas in terms of infrastructure (socially, their ideas are 1950s) but useless at fiscal discipline. People keep saying they've the same ideology, but the difference is actually quite distinct.

I don't know who I could vote for in the next election tbh. I'm away abroad soon for 2 years like all my friends because 20 somethings eventually tire of the chaos and cost of living in Dublin, with feck all opportunities elsewhere in Ireland. Plus, we don't have the vote abroad, unlike most European countries, which conveniently keeps the angry/disillusioned emigrant youth vote at bay.

The one hope I have is that we've woken up immensely in the past decade. We all know another recession is due in maybe 4 - 6 years time. Fine Gael can no longer blame Fianna Fáil for a lack of investment after 8 years in power. They've also run out of social issues to deal with that make them look liberal.

FF won't get away with the try-and-please-everyone attitude again and socially, they can't and won't be allowed to hide from awkward issues, which in fairness FG faced up to.

I'm on a tangent, but I do think long term we need a smaller parliament and that means increasing the population to TD ratio so that we have more accountability from fewer TDs towards a more demanding constituency. We have a ridiculous number of TDs proportionate to our population and it's one of many reasons why our political life is so reactionary in dealing with issues, in comparison to the European model where problems are preempted and planned for.

Finally, we need a change of attitude amongst all parties, and indeed the Civil Service, towards investment in infrastructure. Current expenditure should be fiscally disciplined insofar as is possible, but capital expenditure is entirely different. Investing in infrastructure actually makes the country wealthier, healthier, happier, more efficient and generally a nicer place to live and work in. Sadly, I don't see this mindset in most Irish parties.

marno21 · 14-01-2019 2:34am

The schemes in the NDP have been broken up into two distinct categories. The first is the schemes which have been active for many years and are at various stages in the implementation process. All of these schemes are expected to be delivered by 2022/2023 with some exceptions (N6, M20, M21, M28). Some are already under construction and some are only at the route selection stage. These schemes are fully funded. The other set of schemes are so called "pipeline" schemes, all of which were suspended during the recession and are only being reactivated now. I will post on these in due course:

NDP active schemes:

1. N2 Slane bypass
Originally proposed in 1985, the 3rd incarnation of this scheme was refused planning by An Bord Pleanala in 2012. As a result, a new scheme was started from scratch in early 2017, with feasibility study passed in 2017. Route options were published in December 2017, with preferred route selection now overdue. The scheme will require a considerably detailed EIS and will likely have a lengthy process to get planning approval

2. N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin
This scheme, containing 13.7km of Type 2 DC and 1km of Type 1 SC was approved by An Bord Pleanala in 2014. The scheme includes a grade separated junction at Drumfin and a roundabout at Castlebaldwin. The project went to tender in November 2017, tenders were received in Q4 2018 and the project will begin in Q1 2019 pending Cabinet approval.

3. N5 Westport to Turlough
Planning permission for this scheme was granted in 2014, omitting a planned section of 2+2 retrofit east of Castlebar. The scheme will include 24km of Type 2 DC, 2km of Type 1 SC and includes a northern relief road for Westport. The scheme includes 3 grade separated junctions, with the existing N5 east of Castlebar and at the crossings of the N60 and N84 roads. Consulting engineer tender was issued in late 2016, with award to AECOM/ROD. The scheme was put to tender in May 2018 with the project now envisaged to start in September 2019, accelerated from 2021.

4. N5 Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge
This scheme is currently with An Bord Pleanala with a decision due on 09 July 2018. The scheme includes 34km of single carriageway between the eastern terminus of the Ballaghaderreen bypass and the 2005 N5 upgrade east of Strokestown. The scheme includes 3 roundabout junctions at Frenchpark (R361), at its intersection with the N61 near Elphin and at Strokestown (L1405). Scheme was submitted for planning in December 2017, with planning decision due in early 2019.

5. N6 Galway City Ring Road
This scheme is currently awaiting imminent submission to An Bord Pleanala, following Government approval of the scheme business case. The scheme is one of the 2 figurehead schemes in the NDP, with a cost of between 550 and 600 million. The scheme will be shovel ready in 2021 with implementation due by 2025. The scheme includes 11km of dual carriageway (Type 1) and 5.5km of Type 1 single carriageway. The scheme includes 2 tunnels, 1 viaduct at Menlo and 1 bridge over the River Corrib. The scheme includes junctions at the N6 near Doughiska, 2 separate junctions at Parkmore (1 with the N83 (west access only) and 1 at Parkmore Link Road (east access only), N84 Headford Road, N59 Link Road, Barnagh-Moycullen road and a roundabout west of Barna (R336). The scheme was finally submitted to An Bord Pleanala in October 2018 with planning decision due by mid 2019.

6. M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass upgrade scheme
Work began on this scheme in late 2017 with widening of the mainline starting in January 2018. M7 widening is expected to be complete in April 2019 with the remaining works to be complete in early 2020.

7. N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange upgrade scheme
Scheme was approved by An Bord Pleanala in 2013. A tender was issued in May 2017 with nine expressions of interest received, with five of these invited to submit to tender. Full work to begin in Q1 2019, with preliminary work underway. Scheme will take 3-4 years to complete in full due to the traffic management required on site.

8. N11 Kilmacanogue improvements
This scheme consists of Phase 1 of the programme of works devised as part of the M11/N11 Corridor Needs Study in 2017, and will consist of introducing one way parallel service roads at Kilmacanogue on the southbound carriageway. This work is to begin in 2019.

9. M11/N30/N80 Gorey-Enniscorthy
Work began in early 2016 as a PPP and is expected to open in 2019

10. M20 Cork-Limerick
This scheme was originally sent to An Bord Pleanala in 2011 and was approved after the inclusion of a junction for Buttevant. The scheme was then shelved due to the inability of Government to afford the CPO for the scheme, and the scheme was restarted from scratch in late 2016. The scheme will proceed to route selection and design in early 2019, with the scheme expected to be delivered as part of the National Development Plan by 2027, at a cost of €850-900m. Consultants are to be appointed in Q1 2019 to progress the scheme through route selection, design and statutory process/EIS. The scheme will also include the north-eastern quadrant of the M40 Cork North Ring Road, which is to be routed between the M20 at Killeens and the M8 at Killydonoghue near Glanmire.

11. M21 Patrickswell-Rathkeale-Foynes
Work began in 2013 on a "Foynes-Limerick Road Improvement Scheme" as part of the requirement to connect the Port of Shannon Foynes to the TEN-T Core Network by 2030. A route incorporating a bypass of Adare and Croagh was decided upon in 2015. The scheme includes 17km of motorway and 16km of protected single carriageway road with junctions at Adare, Croagh, Rathkeale, Askeaton and Foynes Port. A submission to An Bord Pleanala is due imminently.

12. N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom
Originally part of a 46km Ballyvourney-Ovens scheme, the Ovens-Macroom DC was dropped in 2011 with only the western section to proceed. The Macroom-Ballyvourney section was given approval by An Bord Pleanala in 2011. The scheme provides for 22km of dual carriageway with 3 grade separated junctions at the western tie in, Ballyvourney and Macroom (R582). The scheme is currently at the advance works stage with a PIN for tender released in late 2017. The scheme was tendered in April 2018 with a mid 2019 start expected, and a three year construction timeframe.

13. N25/N30 New Ross bypass
Work began in 2016 on this scheme as a PPP and it is expected to open in full in Q3 2019. The scheme comprises of 14km of dual carriageway (4km of T1 and 10km of T2), a grade separated junction south of New Ross with the R733 road, and three roundabouts at the western & eastern N25 tie ins and the N30 tie in. The scheme involves a major bridge over the River Barrow.

14. M28 Cork to Ringaskiddy
This scheme has been in the pipeline for decades and has been prioritised due to the Port of Cork at Ringaskiddy achieving TEN-T Core status and the relocation of the main Cork Port activities from Tivoli to Ringaskiddy. The initial route selection work for this scheme took place in 2004 however it made little progress until 2014 when the TEN-T directive was published. The scheme was originally planned as Type 1 DC with 100km/h design speed however this will also now include motorway restrictions. The scheme includes several junctions, starting with a freeflow with the M40 at Bloomfield, a city facing junction at the R610, a full interchange at Carrs Hill with the old N28/R609, a city facing junction at Shannonpark (R611), a city facing junction at Shanbally, and roundabouts at Barnhely, Loughbeg and the Port at Ringaskiddy. The scheme includes 11km of motorway and 2km of protected single carriageway. The scheme was sent to An Bord Pleanala in May 2017 and the project was approved in July 2018. The project is now held due to an appeal for judicial review by a local NIMBY troupe.

15. N52 Ardee bypass
This comparatively small scheme will begin in 2019 having been shovel ready for some time. The scheme includes 4.5km of Type 2 single carriageway beginning at the Louth/Meath border and ending on the N2 approx. 500m from the N33 roundabout. A tender is expected shortly for the €15m project.

16. N56 Mountcharles to Inver
The comparatively small N56 scheme was included in the 2016-2022 Capital Plan having been in planning for over 10 years. The scheme has been split into two chunks, the 2.9km Mountcharles-Drumbeigh section which started in April 2018 and the 2.5km Drumbeigh-Inver section which will start in 2019 (currently at tender). The project comprises 5km of Type 1 single carriageway

17. N56 Dungloe to Glenties
This scheme encompasses an upgrade of some of the poorest alignment of national road countrywide. The scheme is fully funded under the 2016-2022 plan and subsequent National Development Plan. The scheme is phased as follows:
1. Cloghbolie to Boyoughter (3.3km): opened 2012
2. Boyoughter to Kilkenny (4.95km): opened January 2017
3. Kilkenny to Letterilly (3.6km): at construction, started Q1 2018; 2019 completion
4. Letterilly to Kilraine (R262) - does not bypass Glenties: to start 2019
5. Dungloe to Cloghbolie: to start 2019
Advance works are ongoing for phases 4/5 at present.

18. N59 Westport to Mulranny
This scheme is another upgrade of low volume national secondary road, which comprises the upgrade of 21km of N59, 1.6km of which is offline. The scheme is being advanced in phases, with Knockbreaga (1.6km), Derrada (2013 opening) and Rossow Bends (2016 opening), complete. The Kilmeena section went to construction in 2018 and the 4.7km Newport to Derrada section will be completed next.

19. N59 Oughterard to Clifden
This scheme is another LVNS scheme, comprising 46km of deficient national secondary road. The scheme was submitted for planning in two separate sections, 29km from Maam Cross to Clifden which was refused by An Bord Pleanala in 2016, and 17km from Maam Cross to Oughterard which was approved in 2013 conditional to agreement with the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS). Work will begin on a 6km section between Maam Cross and Bunnakill in 2019. A short 3.8km section east of Clifden at Derrylea was completed as a pilot scheme in 2010.

20. N59 Moycullen bypass
This scheme which originally started planning in the 1970s remains awaiting funding. It received An Bord Pleanala approval in 2012, with a minor element of the scheme comprising of the realignment of approx. 1km of the existing N59 east of Moycullen being completed in 2017. The 4.3km Type 1 single carriageway scheme remains will be put to tender in Q3 2019 with a start in 2020. The scheme will have a short construction period.

21. N69 Listowel bypass
This scheme comprises 7km of single carriageway, 3.8km of which is greenfield route. The scheme was approved by An Bord Pleanala in November 2017 after route selection being completed in 2011. The scheme includes 3 roundabouts and a new crossing of the River Feale. The scheme will go to CPO and advance works in 2019 pending a construction start in March 2020.

22. N72 Mallow Relief Road
This scheme was originally abandoned in the mid-2000s due to the cost of land along the route but was reactivated as part of the 2016-2022 Capital Plan. The scheme passed 2 feasibility studies in 2016 and 2017 and is now at the route selection stage with route options published in late 2017. The scheme will enter design and planning in 2019 pending the selection of a route and funding allocation.

23. N86 Tralee to Dingle
This scheme, which is finally now underway, after a series of objections by An Taisce, is being delivered in phases.
1. Phase 1: Annascaul to Gortbreagoge (4.2km) - opened 2012
2. Phase 2: Camp to Ballygarret (1.3km) & Ballynasare to Lispole (2.7km) - opened August 2018
3. Phase 3: Ballynasare to Annascaul (4.7km) & Ballygarret to Doonore South (3.3km) - advance works ongoing
4. Remainder: Dingle to Lispole (10.7km), Gortbreagoge to Doonore South (6.3km) & Camp-R560 (1.3km) - land acquistion stage and advance works

--

It was disappointing how little change I had to make to the original post which I made last March. Several of the projects on the list have not changed since. "A submission to An Bord Pleanala is due imminently." is unchanged on the M21 section, 10 months later.

HabibiLibnen · 14-01-2019 2:59am

NDP active schemes:

1. N2 Slane bypass
Originally proposed in 1985, the 3rd incarnation of this scheme was refused planning by An Bord Pleanala in 2012. As a result, a new scheme was started from scratch in early 2017, with feasibility study passed in 2017. Route options were published in December 2017, with preferred route selection now overdue. The scheme will require a considerably detailed EIS and will likely have a lengthy process to get planning approval

Why has this been refused three times? You also mentioned that planning permission was granted for the M20 back in 2011? I did not know this. Why are they starting again from scratch? Also, what does LVNS stand for?

marno21 · 14-01-2019 3:17am

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

NDP active schemes:

1. N2 Slane bypass
Originally proposed in 1985, the 3rd incarnation of this scheme was refused planning by An Bord Pleanala in 2012. As a result, a new scheme was started from scratch in early 2017, with feasibility study passed in 2017. Route options were published in December 2017, with preferred route selection now overdue. The scheme will require a considerably detailed EIS and will likely have a lengthy process to get planning approval

Why has this been refused three times? You also mentioned that planning permission was granted for the M20 back in 2011? I did not know this. Why are they starting again from scratch? Also, what does LVNS stand for?

1. Slane bypass:

It was it's first refusal. The second 2 attempts didn't get that far: http://www.n2slanebypass.ie/ (History tab at the top)

Read all about it here: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/HA0026.htm
and newspaper: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/planning-refused-for-slane-bypass-1.702605

2. M20: I must edit that. M20 went to ABP in 2010 and it was sent back to the NRA to provide a junction for Buttevant. Whilst this was ongoing the Blueshirts got in and pulled the plug. Now given that the plans back then are outdated it has to start from scratch.

3. LVNS = low volume national secondary. Several sections of lightly used national secondary in the west of Ireland are being realigned to Type 3 single carriageway standard (2x 3m lanes + 0.5m hard strips + cycle lanes in most cases). These are the N56 Dungloe-Glenties, N59 Oughterard-Clifden, N59 Westport-Mulranny & N86 Tralee-Dingle

HabibiLibnen · 14-01-2019 11:18am

It's shocking to think Metro North and the M20 were approved for planning only to be cancelled. Such a waste of money and long term it will actually be more expensive.

I remember trying to explain that there would be 0 savings by scrapping and redesigning, if anything a higher cost due to loss of investment, lost productivity etc to a Fine Gael parliamentary assistant. Complete brick wall, 'no we know better' mentality with them.

marno21 · 14-01-2019 1:50pm

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

It's shocking to think Metro North and the M20 were approved for planning only to be cancelled. Such a waste of money and long term it will actually be more expensive.

I remember trying to explain that there would be 0 savings by scrapping and redesigning, if anything a higher cost due to loss of investment, lost productivity etc to a Fine Gael parliamentary assistant. Complete brick wall, 'no we know better' mentality with them.

DART Underground also. We've lost about 15 years on Metro & the M20 and 25 years on DART Underground. Any economic analysis would show that the 25 years without them significantly outweighs the capital costs, or enabling works/CPO costs that were actually mandated.

14-01-2019 10:27pm

While I'm no fan of FG, I find it strange that they get so much of the blame for the halt in infrastructure development circa 2010.

Surely everyone hasn't forgotten the fubar situation the country was in at the time. We were struggling to find funds keep the lights on nevermind build huge projects.

Also, don't forget, these were planned to be funded by the endless stamp duty cash that proved not so endless.

Regardless of who held the mantle back then, the majority of the projects were going to be for the chop

RedDevil55 · 14-01-2019 10:40pm

marno21 wrote: »

4. N5 Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge
This scheme is currently with An Bord Pleanala with a decision due on 09 July 2018. The scheme includes 34km of single carriageway between the eastern terminus of the Ballaghaderreen bypass and the 2005 N5 upgrade east of Strokestown. The scheme includes 3 roundabout junctions at Frenchpark (R361), at its intersection with the N61 near Elphin and at Strokestown (L1405). Scheme was submitted for planning in December 2017, with planning decision due in early 2019.

Is it set in stone that there will be 3 roundabouts? I would have thought they'd keep it a similar spec to the Charlestown and Ballaghaderreen bypasses which are completely free flow. A bit disappointing if that's the case.

Is it not possible to put in grade separated junctions due to the delicate archaeological environment?

Shedite27 · 14-01-2019 10:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

While I'm no fan of FG, I find it strange that they get so much of the blame for the halt in infrastructure development circa 2010.

Surely everyone hasn't forgotten the fubar situation the country was in at the time. We were struggling to find funds keep the lights on nevermind build huge projects.

Also, don't forget, these were planned to be funded by the endless stamp duty cash that proved not so endless.

Regardless of who held the mantle back then, the majority of the projects were going to be for the chop

Yeah I agree with that.

It's horrible to think how much money we spent with nothing tangible in return. Imagine if it had hit 4/5 years earlier, how many big road projects were completed around 06/07, Dublin-Cork, Limerick and Galway all finished around then.

HabibiLibnen · 15-01-2019 12:24am

It's not that they didn't go ahead with major infrastructure projects like the Metro during the recession that annoys people, it's the fact they scrapped them completely.

They could have put Metro North or the M20 on hold, kept them ticking over with minimal advance works or simply suspend them until we had the finances to reactivate. They chose to waste years of planning, consultancy, efficiency and time by scrapping them entirely.

What frustrates me even more is the endless spin and PR they engage in. Press conferences, press releases, policy launches, glossy brochures and branding, lots of talk about how much Leo loves trams, motorways for the West and north west, the need for sustainable urban planning, DART expansion, talking about BRT since 2013 and now it's BusConnects, Metro North to New Metro North to Metro Link.

Just stop the foothering and bladdering and get on with these projects.

marno21 · 15-01-2019 12:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

While I'm no fan of FG, I find it strange that they get so much of the blame for the halt in infrastructure development circa 2010.

Surely everyone hasn't forgotten the fubar situation the country was in at the time. We were struggling to find funds keep the lights on nevermind build huge projects.

Also, don't forget, these were planned to be funded by the endless stamp duty cash that proved not so endless.

Regardless of who held the mantle back then, the majority of the projects were going to be for the chop

I don't really blame them for the 2010/11 stuff. I just pointed out it's a pity it happened - the options were limited at the time.

But it's 2019 now, and the mickeying around with these projects can no longer be blamed on 2010. The M20 could be close to construction now if planning & design had started in late 2014/early 2015. But no, it's starting planning & design now which is a saving of approximately €20m over 4 years but it means we'll have 4 years of no M20 for no good reason with all the issues that brings.

Even these days though the finances of the country have their issues. A small surplus in 2018 caused by an unexpected corporation tax windfall. Continued waste in current spending with all the ongoing departmental issues that are no closer to being solved than they were 10 years ago.

2018-2027 National Development Plan

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