Jordan Peterson interview on C4

Dyr

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No it isn't. But if you claim your miracle diet cures your mental illness, and you take medication instead of messing about when it comes to your own mental health, then you're being dishonest. That should be obvious.

The lengths his fans are going to to avoid acknowledging the diet is nonsense, is genuinely fascinating.

Lets just break it down here to avoid Cathy Newman like jumping from point to point:

Where is he selling this diet?

When and where did he claim that this diet cured his depression

Was he taking anti-depressents at that time?

Direct quotes now, if you dont mind.

super_furry

Honestly think it's between BTS and Jordan Peterson for the most rabid online fanbase that will swarm at any criticism of their objects of worship.

El_Duderino 09

Bambi wrote: »

Lets just break it down here to avoid Cathy Newman like jumping from point to point:

Where is he selling this diet?

When and where did he claim that this diet cured his depression

Was he taking anti-depressents at that time?

Direct quotes now, if you dont mind.

Where is he selling this diet? In interviews on the Internet.

When and where did he claim that this diet cured his depression. In interviews on the Internet.

Was he taking anti-depressents at that time? I've no idea. We know he was taking anti anxiety mess to the point of becoming addicted. I don't even believe he are an all beef diet. I just know he said he are an all beef diet.

Direct quotes now, if you don't mind. I'm not wasting time looking for quotes for you to dismiss.

super_furry

21 minutes for a response? Damn the Peterson Defence Force are slipping.

Step it up PDF, your glorious leader needs you.

silverharp

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Except if the spurious claims are made by the man himself. Then it's only the people who criticise the spurious claims that should be challenged. Right, Guava Juice?

What is the worst thing he is advising young men? I have a teenage son and on the face of it I’d prefer he was listening to Peterson than his critics. He isnt the be all and end all , but if something sticks then good , no?

This coming from the person who tried to sell dry January online too..the hypocrisy!!!..

El_Duderino 09

silverharp wrote: »

What is the worst thing he is advising young men? I have a teenage son and on the face of it I’d prefer he was listening to Peterson than his critics. He isnt the be all and end all , but if something sticks then good , no?

The all beef diet he promotes for his daughter. That's pretty cynical. I doubt you'd feed your son all beef - because it's nonsense that Peterson only promotes because his daughter sells it.

He might have some interesting things to say. But he also sells some real harmful nonsense - the miracle cure diet. Also, your son doesn't have to listen to either Peterson or his critics.

It depends on what "sticks". If your son experienced mental illness and refused treatment except an all beef diet, would you be happy about that?

super_furry

Everyone - Hey that looper banging on about eating nothing but steak forever is way out there.

PDF Cultists -

Guava Juice wrote: »

You despise Jordan Peterson because he makes you feel bad about yourself, you despised him before you ever heard of a beef diet. He invalidates your self image and he invalidates your world view which you identify with.

silverharp

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The all beef diet he promotes for his daughter. That's pretty cynical. I doubt you'd feed your son all beef - because it's nonsense that Peterson only promotes because his daughter sells it.

He might have some interesting things to say. But he also sells some real harmful nonsense - the miracle cure diet. Also, your son doesn't have to listen to either Peterson or his critics.

It depends on what "sticks". If your son experienced mental illness and refused treatment except an all beef diet, would you be happy about that?

OK , I can park the diet stuff in general, not really relevant to why he created such virulent heat, so you are saying he’s ok to listen to any nothing particularly toxic, ok grand.

My view of an all beef diet is that it is a reasonable elimination diet and it could clear up certain inflammation conditions so I would see no harm in trying it however for most people I wouldn’t see it as necessary but certainly better than a “pizza and pop tarts diet”. There are people following versions of a carnivore diet from just beef to “nose to tail” and then looser versions that range into low carb etc. whatever works for you and is sustainable. To flip it the other way around there are a lot of people out there with some forms of mental disorders or depression etc that have their conditions exacerbated because they are following high sugar and processed oils diets.

El_Duderino 09

silverharp wrote: »

OK , I can park the diet stuff in general, not really relevant to why he created such virulent heat, so you are saying he’s ok to listen to any nothing particularly toxic, ok grand.

My view of an all beef diet is that it is a reasonable elimination diet and it could clear up certain inflammation conditions so I would see no harm in trying it however for most people I wouldn’t see it as necessary but certainly better than a “pizza and pop tarts diet”. There are people following versions of a carnivore diet from just beef to “nose to tail” and then looser versions that range into low carb etc. whatever works for you and is sustainable. To flip it the other way around there are a lot of people out there with some forms of mental disorders or depression etc that have their conditions exacerbated because they are following high sugar and processed oils diets.

So your son, suffering with mental illness, refuses any evidence based treatment and only wants to eat beef because Peterson said its a cure-all, and you're fine with it because it might be better than the 'pizza and pop tart' diet.

Honestly, I'd really like to know what Peterson would need to say if do to test your loyalty.

Will I Am Not

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The all beef miracle cure diet (available from his daughter). But you knew that so what’s your point?

So this all beef diet... what’s the big secret that you have to pay his daughter to find out about? Do you sign up to a subscription where she emails you every day to tell you to eat some steak or mince?

silverharp

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So your son, suffering with mental illness, refuses any evidence based treatment and only wants to eat beef because Peterson said its a cure-all, and you're fine with it because it might be better than the 'pizza and pop tart' diet.

Honestly, I'd really like to know what Peterson would need to say if do to test your loyalty.

There are a lot of conditions to that one? Did Peterson actually say it’s a cure all and to refuse all other medical intervention? I’d like to see that link where he states that.

If I have to comment on what you imagine someone might do based on what you imagine you think Peterson has said, I think Ill pass

markodaly

As the original OP of this thread, it is delightful and delicious irony that we have people trying to detract from his point of view and the best they can come up with is his diet. LOLZ!


Try harder folks.

B0jangles

So he's basically like Gwyneth Paltrow/Goop? All lifestyle and 'wellness' guidance, plus some dubious health advice?

Junkyard Tom

Guava Juice wrote: »

What part of Jordan Peterson's philosophy or outlook gets under people's skin?

Peterson's self help stuff is what it is - if it helps people then that's okay. It's the political stuff Peterson bundles in with his self-help tips that we should all have a problem with. On the one hand Peterson is saying 'you need to take control of your life' and on the other he says 'don't challenge the system, you're not qualified to mess with the system'.

Ben Shapiro does the same thing. If you're working two jobs to keep your head above water 'that'd be a you problem'.

What really sucks about these two in particular is that they're already millionaires - of course they're not going to want 'dimwits' who are pissed-off with their ever-decreasing slice of the pie from beginning to think about changing the system - they've won.

Raconteuse

Thought too much beef was bad for the colon?

babybuilder

I agree with alot of what he says about the clinical psychology side of things but politically I don't share any common ground. Saw a video of Peterson when he was asked about the Palestinian question. For a self-professed avid reader on a wide range of topics he declared that he didn't know we enough to voice an opinion. He waffled on dodging the question no doubt afraid to offend some of his donors. Didn't stop him declaring an opinion on climate change based on the 120 or so books he read on the topic.

El_Duderino 09

Will I Am Not wrote: »

So this all beef diet... what’s the big secret that you have to pay his daughter to find out about? Do you sign up to a subscription where she emails you every day to tell you to eat some steak or mince?

No point asking me. I see it as a cynical con trick. You need to his daughter to find out.

El_Duderino 09

silverharp wrote: »

There are a lot of conditions to that one? Did Peterson actually say it’s a cure all and to refuse all other medical intervention? I’d like to see that link where he states that.

If I have to comment on what you imagine someone might do based on what you imagine you think Peterson has said, I think Ill pass

No need to guess at what you'd do. You'd skip past giving Peterson's miracle cure diet the benefit of the doubt and go straight to evidence based medicine. But for the sake of argument and with nothing at stake, you can continue to pretend the diet might actually be more than a conjob.

El_Duderino 09

Silentcorner wrote: »

The beef things seems to have a lot of knickers in a twist.

I'm no expert on JP, but I believe he preaches personal responsibility...

In this day and age, personal responsibility is like kryptonite to the outrage/feminist mob...they seem to be the one's with the biggest beef with JP!!

The beef thing is a fairly serious indicator of what he's about. He'll gladly sell a nonsense diet to enrich his family and cause serious harm to young men who need actual help. You're willing to "Park" the diet because if you focus on it, it's pretty cynical.

The personal responsibility stuff is grand. You might or might not have noticed that nobody has criticised his advice to take responsibility, or his advice to pet a cat, or stand up straight or tidy your room or smell the flowers or whatever other nuggets of home spun advice he has. Those bits sound grand, harmless.

But calling the nonsense, nonsense, seems to twist the knickers of his loyal fans. Some people can't even bare to admit the diet is just a con.

El_Duderino 09

markodaly wrote: »

As the original OP of this thread, it is delightful and delicious irony that we have people trying to detract from his point of view and the best they can come up with is his diet. LOLZ!


Try harder folks.

The diet is one of his "points of view". Why ought we not talk about it? Is it a bit uncomfortable for Peterson fans to see Peterson flog his daughter's business in such an obviously irresponsible way?

Raconteuse

I guess people are wondering... what's El Duderino's *beef* with JP.

/lowers sunglasses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

LaFuton

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The diet is one of his "points of view". Why ought we not talk about it? Is it a bit uncomfortable for Peterson fans to see Peterson flog his daughter's business in such an obviously irresponsible way?

i saw a couple of his lectures where he mentioned his daughters condition, and he did so with empathy and respect and love and all that normal shtuff, it was in relation to a point on general fatigue and unwellness being related to diet among other things.
he spoke how she suffered terribly and what she did to overcome it.
he was moved and proud, why wouldn't he mention it if it had bearing on what he was talking about.
ive never known him to be "irresponsible" about anything he discusses, he treats all avenues with intelligent respect.
now ive only seen about 20 hours of his lectures and a couple of 3 hour discussions oh and he wss very good on joe rogan

Raconteuse

Raconteuse wrote: »

I guess people are wondering... what's El Duderino's *beef* with JP.

/lowers sunglasses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

//Thread

SeanW

I've watched a fair few Jordan Peterson videos and I've never seen one where he said "you should pay my daughter a whole load of money for her to sell you an all-meat diet that's going cure everything from depression to cancer for literally anyone."

Maybe I just missed that one?

El_Duderino 09

SeanW wrote: »

I've watched a fair few Jordan Peterson videos and I've never seen one where he said "you should pay my daughter a whole load of money for her to sell you an all-meat diet that's going cure everything from depression to cancer for literally anyone."

Maybe I just missed that one?

Yeah you missed it alright. It might have been slightly more subtle than you were looking for though.

The daughter says it cures just about anything up to and including if you generally think you could feel better. Pretty cynical stuff but you can see from the reactions on this thread that his followers won’t just not question whatever he says, they’ll have a go any anyone who does question it. He’s an influential guy.

Jimmy Bottlehead

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

And is this how you see Peterson as he sells the beef diet? “ the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly”

It’s a lovely, fawning tribute to Peterson. But how can you look at a man selling a product that even he doesn’t use, and pay him this tribute?

It's not a fawning tribute, it's a fitting poem espousing that there are those who do, and there are those who complain.

From my recollection of his interview on the Joe Rogan Experience #1208 (I believe it was that one), Peterson has never ever advocated that others follow the diet, as he has no dietary qualifications. What he did was speak anecdotally of his and his daughters experience of the diet, both of whom found it beneficial. He was at pains to press that it was not empirically supported, but merely his experience and by extension, hers too.

The question that "well, that he 'solved' his mental health issues, why did he develop a benzo addiction?" is as follows, as I understand: he found his diet did help with his long term depressive symptoms. However, his lifestyle change since 2016 (when he came to public prominence, constant debates, his person and career constantly under threat and up for dissection in the public arena) coupled with his wife being diagnosed with and battling a very grim cancer diagnosis led him to go to his doctor, where he was prescribed anti-anxiety medication. His particular benzo is highly addictive and so Jordan tried unsuccessfully to detox from it before entering a detox facility.

I think it's particularly sad that 2-3 posters on here are fixated by his diet and use it as a platform to trash everything he does. I don't agree with everything JP does, says or believes but I am a strong enough individual to be able to separate the chaff from the wheat and see the value that he currently provides as a public figure. His overall message of taking personal responsibility is one that many could learn and benefit from in 2020, but the way he packages it is a bitter pill to swallow. And for some, including those aforementioned on this thread, it is easier on their ego to trash the great work of a risk taker and scream from the sidelines, rather than take the cold, harsh look at oneself and realise that the gap between the current self and the potential self is horrifyingly wide and set out to rectify that.

Fistycuffs

I think a brush with serious illness in your family that you can't adequately treat or understand is one of the biggest things that happen to you. It's a defining moment in your understanding of life and your place in it, it's a mirror held up to your utter powerlessness . At best its humbling,at worst it's crushing.It's impossible to view life in the same way after.

Why shouldn't his life experience inform his outlook? Why shouldn't he share that? That's being authentic.
It's going to resonate with people who are experiencing the same and for others it's going to be something they'll think back on when it happens to them, and it very likely will eventually.

He's never told everyone to give you any food group. He's just discussed his experience. Personally I think any perspective born of lived experience is richer, I appreciated him sharing it.

Zubeneschamali

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

His overall message of taking personal responsibility is one that many could learn and benefit from in 2020

This is typical of a lot of Peterson's fans - they think his message is an excellent tonic for other people.

You know, those people.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This is typical of a lot of Peterson's fans - they think his message is an excellent tonic for other people.

You know, those people.

No, pal. I mean me. And I mean you. And everybody else.

We ALL need to look in the mirror and ask, is this good enough?

But hey, don't let such a thing as a well reasoned argument or a healthy approach to ego derail you and your issue with a beef diet. Good man.