Jordan Peterson interview on C4

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh it really looks like the diet is the one thing you have with which to attack him, and you're doing so with gusto..

It's one thing that is complete nonsense. If anyone believes that, they'd probably believe anything he says.

A few posters have said they don't agree with him on the diet, but would not actually criticise him or even question the truth of his claim.

Just out of interest, where do you stand on this diet 'cure' for depression?

Zubeneschamali

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's desperately cynical for a bloke who actually suffers with depression to peddle a nonsense 'cure' to other sufferers for his (and his daughter's) gain.

Especially while taking benzos himself for anxiety, enough to get dependent on them.

How come beef and standing up straight didn't work?

silverharp

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's one thing that is complete nonsense. If anyone believes that, they'd probably believe anything he says.

A few posters have said they don't agree with him on the diet, but would not actually criticise him or even question the truth of his claim.

Just out of interest, where do you stand on this diet 'cure' for depression?

define cure for depression? , I would guess nobody is implying that its a cure for all depression everywhere. Its certainly possible that a change in diet from a highly processed diet to a less processed diet would alleviate some symptoms in some people.

El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It should be used against his claim that the all-beef diet was dealing with his long term depression, yes. It's hard to get a benzo addiction when eating nothing but beef and salt.

The fact that needed benzos for anxiety and he tried to quit the benzos using will power alone and failed should be used against his simple-minded 12 Rules stuff about how to deal with difficult stuff in life by being responsible and self-reliant and petting cats.

Well, he was using drugs to treat his mental health after claiming the all beef diet could cure it. Bu the can't simply admit the cure was nonsense because his daughter sells the cure. That suggests he's willing to say things that really aren't true. It's a small step up from those televangelists selling holy water for $20 a bottle.

I hope he get better and I also hope he takes back the stuff he said on the beef diet when he's back to himself. Mental health is important and selling nonsense cures is pretty low.

El_Duderino 09

silverharp wrote: »

define cure for depression? , I would guess nobody is implying that its a cure for all depression everywhere. Its certainly possible that a change in diet from a highly processed diet to a less processed diet would alleviate some symptoms in some people.

Peterson and his daughter say it's a 'cure'. I don't say its a cure. I say its total guff.

Where do you stand on it?

Professor Genius

silverharp wrote: »

family photo, I think I know who wears the pants in that family, the comment about women wanting men they can dominate takes on a new meaning now :pac:

Oh dear ! Beta makes produce girls apparently ?

silverharp

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Peterson and his daughter say it's a 'cure'. I don't say its a cure. I say its total guff.

Where do you stand on it?

I'd say you are probably misquoting him or removing context and im sure he would have pointed out caveats that your brain wanted to not process to make his position seem more extreme.

Where do I stand? I think an elimination diet, which this is might help some people with some inflammatory complaints , mood, or other chronic issues but its not necessary for most people, simply going on a don’t eat cr@p diet would help in as much diet can be a factor. The opposite is certainly true as in people who have poor diets invite a lot of medical issues on themselves.

do you think diet plays no factor in depression?


https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318428.php

One factor that may contribute to depression is a person's dietary habits, which will determine the nutrients that they consume.
A 2017 study found that the symptoms of people with moderate-to-severe depression improved when they received nutritional counseling sessions and ate a more healthful diet for 12 weeks.
The improved diet focused on fresh and whole foods that are high in nutrients. It also limited processed refined foods, sweets, and fried food, including junk food.
Depressive symptoms, including mood and anxiety, improved enough to achieve remission criteria in more than 32% of the participants.
The researchers concluded that people could help manage or improve their symptoms of depression by addressing their diet.

Where do I stand on his meat diet?..I don't have a position on what some lad in Canada eats tbh..

The human biome is a complicated thing.. restricting what goes into it probably brings short term benefits but probably brings difficulty in the longer term..

It's kind of like a more extreme keto like, is it not?

But yeah, I think your dry January is obviously having adverse effects on your state of mind if you're that concerned about what the good doctor eats.. should you be encouraging it online?

kowloon

bnt wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by that. He's never been an advocate of "tough it out" or "go it alone" for genuine mental health issues, and has stated that he has prescribed SSRIs etc. when he thought it was the best course for the patient.

I didn't realise he could do that, I thought he was a psychology academic.

Either way, saw that this comes after his wife got a cancer diagnosis, so it's not like he hasn't had anything to push him off the edge. It'd be pretty poor form to sit back and judge, despite what you make of his political views.

1800_Ladladlad

People like this are alarming

https://twitter.com/RubinReport/status/1214947909713555456

Zubeneschamali

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

People like this are alarming

https://twitter.com/RubinReport/status/1214947909713555456

Funny guy!

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where do I stand on his meat diet?..I don't have a position on what some lad in Canada eats tbh..

The human biome is a complicated thing.. restricting what goes into it probably brings short term benefits but probably brings difficulty in the longer term..

It's kind of like a more extreme keto like, is it not?

But yeah, I think your dry January is obviously having adverse effects on your state of mind if you're that concerned about what the good doctor eats.. should you be encouraging it online?

And you have no problems at all with a guy who peddles this guff as if it were a real cure for something as serious as depression?

He even pretends to care about men's mental health and famously cried talking about young men during by suicide. Then he promotes his daughters miracle cure for depression.

Its proper conman level stuff. I really do wonder what he would have to say to cause you to even doubt him. The devotion some people exhibit to Peterson is interesting.

El_Duderino 09

HarryLane wrote: »

It's truly bizarre that some people could be so fixated on one person saying they tried a diet and it worked for them.

I think I know why that is though. For some people, their priority is not truth, reason and logic. It's feeling morally superior and not feeling morally on the bad side. This is how they see the world.

They build a worldview in their mind about who the good people are and who the bad people are. They want to be one of the good people. So it infuriates and threatens them when one of the "bad people" makes valid points and contradicts their own world view in a reasoned manner. They begin to feel like one of the "bad people".

So in response they desperately search for something to criticise them(Jordan Peterson) about and frame them (Jordan Peterson) as a "bad person". Notice how they day things like, "isn't that low", they desperately want such people to be viewed as bad people so they can feel like a good person. Their whole identity feels threatened by people like Jorday Peterson, it threatens their simplistic and tribalisitic worldview.

Ah yeah and that's all very neat and tidy if it were the case. But the diet is genuinely a clear example of someone selling a made up cure for wherever sold you. The daughter actually described it as a cure for a list of things so broad it could mean anything and then said or if you think you could feel better. So everyone would benefit from the diet she sells (but is careful not to recommend for legal reasons).

Ive no problems at all with what some guy in Canada eats. I saw an article on the internet about a lass in the UK who eats a pack of talcum powder every day. I don't care about her doing that. But if she was promoting it as a miracle cure for everything and anything and was promoting her daughter's business selling counselling in the benefis of eating talcum powder, then I would also be opposed to that kind of conjob. But I wouldn't see posters lining up to say they believe her and defend that woman as they're line up to defend Peterson and pretend his all beef diet might actually be a miracle cure for him and his daughter (but not for anyone else).

Its all a bit of a stretch.

El_Duderino 09

HarryLane wrote: »

I don't believe anyone on this thread claimed that this beef diet is some sort of miracle cure, you are the one making claims without evidence. You are making claims about Jordan Peterson's motivations when nobody knows.

As far as I'm aware he said the beef diet helped him, that's it. You are the one making all the assumptions. I don't actually care one way or the other what his motivations are.

Ah no. He said its a miracle cure of sorts and his daughter goes further to say its a cure for pretty much everything.

I think the motivation is important but the effect is also important. The effect of selling a nonsense miracle cure for his daughter's profit, is bad behaviour. Considering mental health is a pretty important issue for lots of people it makes it pretty bad behaviour.

He's trading on his reputation which is so strong that lots of posters cant even bring themselves to question what he's saying and instead just assume whatever he says, no matter how far fetched, he says in earnest.

flexcon

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah no. He said its a miracle cure of sorts and his daughter goes further to say its a cure for pretty much everything.

I think the motivation is important but the effect is also important. The effect of selling a nonsense miracle cure for his daughter's profit, is bad behaviour. Considering mental health is a pretty important issue for lots of people it makes it pretty bad behaviour.

He's trading on his reputation which is so strong that lots of posters cant even bring themselves to question what he's saying and instead just assume whatever he says, no matter how far fetched, he says in earnest.

it's complicated to some degree.

Personally, the Keto diet changed my health hands down. My own doctor cannot explain how my health has improved so fast although unofficially sees the benefits . Blood pressure, resting heart rate, etc all down. Lost 15KG in 3 months. My energy levels are great, black under eyes have gone etc etc.

So I am def a promoter of it, however, I accept there is a difference between a joe soap like myself and that of a public character JP.

The other angle is, Keto-type diets aren't on the same level of anti-vax say. There is a great book out there by David Perlmutter. He is a neurologist and having followed his advice, again - Mental health improved further.

All of this is antidotal I get it, but my gut (excuse the pun) tells me this legit.

Zubeneschamali

flexcon wrote: »

Personally, the Keto diet changed my health hands down.

The Petersons were not on a regular Keto diet though, they were on a diet of no food at all other than beef and salt (and apparently handfuls of benzos).

This diet is even more restrictive than the already mad Carnivore diet, which at least allows the dieter to eat different animals and fish.

Brian?

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

People like this are alarming

https://twitter.com/RubinReport/status/1214947909713555456

Seriously, do you spend all day reading tweets from alt right grifters?

Brian?

flexcon wrote: »

it's complicated to some degree.

Personally, the Keto diet changed my health hands down. My own doctor cannot explain how my health has improved so fast although unofficially sees the benefits . Blood pressure, resting heart rate, etc all down. Lost 15KG in 3 months. My energy levels are great, black under eyes have gone etc etc.

So I am def a promoter of it, however, I accept there is a difference between a joe soap like myself and that of a public character JP.

The other angle is, Keto-type diets aren't on the same level of anti-vax say. There is a great book out there by David Perlmutter. He is a neurologist and having followed his advice, again - Mental health improved further.

All of this is antidotal I get it, but my gut (excuse the pun) tells me this legit.

There’s also a world of difference between the Keto diet and a beef only diet.

Brian?

flexcon wrote: »

i
All of this is antidotal I get it.

What have you got against Dots?

El_Duderino 09

Brian? wrote: »

What have you got against Dots?

The plural of antidotes, IS evidence when it comes to this topic.

wildlifeboy

" Obviously he's not going to mess with his own health by only eating beef, " lol thats exactly what hes been doing for years. look it up

El_Duderino 09

wildlifeboy wrote: »

" Obviously he's not going to mess with his own health by only eating beef, " lol thats exactly what hes been doing for years. look it up

Not so. He would claim the all beef miracle cure treated his mental illnesses and his daughter goes further and says it basically cures everything and anything. But when he actually experienced a mental health problem, he took the evidence based medicine. He actually got addicted to the anti anxiety meds and has recently been in rehab to overcome the addiction - presumably getting evidence based treatment.

So no, he hasn't been using the beef only diet to treat his own mental ill health. He just advocates that for his followers, he takes medication instead of messing about when it comes to his own health.

It's exactly what it looks like.

Zubeneschamali

wildlifeboy wrote: »

" Obviously he's not going to mess with his own health by only eating beef, " lol thats exactly what hes been doing for years. look it up

That's exactly what he has been claiming, but we know it isn't true.

You can't get addicted to benzos while on a no-benzo diet.

sbsquarepants

silverharp wrote: »

do you think diet plays no factor in depression?


https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318428.php

One factor that may contribute to depression is a person's dietary habits, which will determine the nutrients that they consume.
A 2017 study found that the symptoms of people with moderate-to-severe depression improved when they received nutritional counseling sessions and ate a more healthful diet for 12 weeks.
The improved diet focused on fresh and whole foods that are high in nutrients. It also limited processed refined foods, sweets, and fried food, including junk food.
Depressive symptoms, including mood and anxiety, improved enough to achieve remission criteria in more than 32% of the participants.
The researchers concluded that people could help manage or improve their symptoms of depression by addressing their diet.

There used to be a show (on channel 4 i think) called the food hospital. It's a clinic in the UK where they treat everything and anything with diet, including mood disorders. These weren't quacks they were proper doctors, dieticians etc. Some of the turnarounds in people were nothing short of miraculous.

You are what you eat after all!

Dyr

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That's exactly what he has been claiming, but we know it isn't true.

You can't get addicted to benzos while on a no-benzo diet.

Medication is nutrition now?

I think we're seeing the development of Peterson derangement syndrome

Jimmy Bottlehead

Guava Juice wrote: »

I think the reason you are so preoccupied with Jordan Peterson is because he makes you feel like a failure, so you want to hear other people say he is a bad person to make you feel better about yourself.

Most people don't give a **** whether a stranger wants to promote a crap diet or not. You care so much because he makes you feel inadequate, so you desperately need something to criticise him about.

^^ This.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

El_Duderino 09

Bambi wrote: »

Medication is nutrition now?

I think we're seeing the development of Peterson derangement syndrome

No it isn't. But if you claim your miracle diet cures your mental illness, and you take medication instead of messing about when it comes to your own mental health, then you're being dishonest. That should be obvious.

The lengths his fans are going to to avoid acknowledging the diet is nonsense, is genuinely fascinating.

Will I Am Not

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

And is that why you feel like a psychoanalyst? Lol

His lectures are a separate thing from his media personality. The media personality will say anything to sell stuff. He's not to be trusted, that much is for certain. He trades on the academic reputation to get his followers to not even question the products he sells. Pure example of appeal to authority fallacy.

His lectures might be interesting and insightful

What products is he selling that should be questioned?

El_Duderino 09

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

^^ This.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

And is this how you see Peterson as he sells the beef diet? “ the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly”

It’s a lovely, fawning tribute to Peterson. But how can you look at a man selling a product that even he doesn’t use, and pay him this tribute?

El_Duderino 09

Will I Am Not wrote: »

What products is he selling that should be questioned?

The all beef miracle cure diet (available from his daughter). But you knew that so what’s your point?