Jordan Peterson interview on C4

Better Than Christ

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It just depends on how you see socialism.

If you think that acquiring as much personal wealth as possible, as quickly as possible, doesn't make you any less of a Socialist than anyone else, I would be inclined to suggest that you see socialism... uh, quite wrongly.

El_Duderino 09

MrKingsley wrote: »

He is a clinical psychologist who has suffered with depression for his entire adult life. I really do not think he would be “cashing in” on the back of the illness

I think that's exactly what's happening in front of your eyes. I think his daughter came up with a 'cure' and he's promoting it and pretending it works. As if an all beef diet could cure depression. Seriously like. If Dangerous Dave down the pub told you about his all beef diet ‘cure’, you’d probably dismiss it as nonsense - because it’s nonsense. He’s absolutely trading on his name to promote a miracle ‘cure’.

How do you explain what he’s doing right now?

MrKingsley

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think that's exactly what's happening in front of your eyes. I think his daughter came up with a 'cure' and he's promoting it and pretending it works. As if an all beef diet could cure depression. Seriously like. If Dangerous Dave down the pub told you about his all beef diet ‘cure’, you’d probably dismiss it as nonsense - because it’s nonsense. He’s absolutely trading on his name to promote a miracle ‘cure’.

How do you explain what he’s doing right now?

As a poster above said I think that he thought it was working for him

ILoveYourVibes

Better Than Christ wrote: »

If you think that acquiring as much personal wealth as possible, as quickly as possible, doesn't make you any less of a Socialist than anyone else, I would be inclined to suggest that you see socialism... uh, quite wrongly.

Do you now?

Have you studied many forms of socialism at all?

So tell me then ...should be be means testing the current govt subsidies for Irish college students?

Is free college for all socialist if it makes rich people richer? And that is what it does you know ...it makes rich people ..richer.

Should we make rich people PAY for healthcare in the uk? Because THAT makes rich people richer?

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/07/free-college-tuition-bernie-sanders-means-testing-universal-social-programs

Why We Need Free College for Everyone — Even Rich People

Tell me again how socialism isn't about making everyone richer? Is it about making everyone poorer?

Do you think socialism makes rich people poorer?

Because Germany has more millionaires than anywhere in the EU.

Also the richer i get the more you can tax me. I mean ....a country full of poor people with few companies ..not much tax there.

El_Duderino 09

MrKingsley wrote: »

As a poster above said I think that he thought it was working for him

So you believe he actually ate an all beef diet?

RWCNT

Bondyield wrote: »

It says a lot about a person's character when they take pleasure in seeing someone suffering. Especially someone who is a force for good, and helps and educates people.

Whether he's a force for good on balance or educates anyone is definitely a matter of opinion, although I'm sure he has helped some people. Still agree that it's abhorrent to take pleasure in someone's suffering though.

El_Duderino 09

Bondyield wrote: »

It says a lot about a person's character when they take pleasure in seeing someone suffering. Especially someone who is a force for good, and helps and educates people.

I dislike the nonsense he goes on with but don't take pleasure in his suffering. Has anyone indicated they enjoy his suffering?

He's also not just a force for good. His climate change denial is amoral at best and is probably immoral. His all beef diet is not a force for good. Both of those things are good for his brand because his conservative American market likes to hear those things, but they're not in step with reality.

Better Than Christ

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also the richer i get the more you can tax me. I mean ....a country full of poor people with few companies ..not much tax there.

Great, how much would be acceptable? I mean, if you were earning a million a year and a socialist government decided to tax 90% of that, you'd still be coming out with €100k, which is more than enough for anyone to live very comfortably on. Or would you prefer something a bit less socialist?

ILoveYourVibes

Bondyield wrote: »

It says a lot about a person's character when they take pleasure in seeing someone suffering. Especially someone who is a force for good, and helps and educates people.

No one is taking pleasure in his suffering.
I haven't seen a post yet do so.

Great, how much would be acceptable? I mean, if you were earning a million a year and a socialist government decided to tax 90% of that, you'd still be coming out with €100k, which is more than enough for anyone to live very comfortably on. Or would you prefer something a bit less socialist?

One million a year is not rich......honey if the govt wants to tax me 90% ...then i make it my business to earn 10 million a year ...come get me bitches!

I don't bitch and become greedy ...i mean i become greedy ...i just don't begrudge the needy ....i dream bigger! :mad:

A higher tax bracket should give you motivation to earn more!

Plus with all these FABULOUS socialist amenities i barely need to spend it ..and have more for designer bags!

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So you believe he actually ate an all beef diet?

We get it..you don't approve of his diet..

ILoveYourVibes

Bondyield wrote: »

He said the diet worked for him, and he gave an opinion on climate change which by the way there is no conclusive evidence either way.

If you want to make a statement you must provide conclusive evidence that there is no conclusive evidence.

I mean you have to prove that negative. I reckon that will be hard for you.


You might want to look at the logic of your statement.

Perhaps saying ' there is evidence to suggest multiple possible explanations for climate change of which human activity is one'.

Then you might list them in order of likelyhood according to statisticians.

MrKingsley

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So you believe he actually ate an all beef diet?

From the interviews I listened to yes I would believe him. I don't see why he would bother lying about that. He also was at pains to state that he WAS NOT RECOMMENDING everyone do it but just said that he felt fresher, healthier and more alert.

ILoveYourVibes

Bondyield wrote: »

There is no conclusive evidence one way or the other, feel free to prove me wrong if you want.

In other words you are taking nonsense and can't back up your claims. The onus is on you.

cryptocurrency

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I dislike the nonsense he goes on with but don't take pleasure in his suffering. Has anyone indicated they enjoy his suffering?

He's also not just a force for good. His climate change denial is amoral at best and is probably immoral. His all beef diet is not a force for good. Both of those things are good for his brand because his conservative American market likes to hear those things, but they're not in step with reality.

Need to read more of your posts. You sound woke as hell.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We get it..you don't approve of his diet..

I don't even believe its a diet. I don't believe he are only beef. Its just a 'cure' like looking through a hold ring was a 'cure' for eye problems or drinking from holy wells in would 'cure' what ails you.

It's common in the world of promoting diets and 'cures'. Celebs like Charlotte Crosby promote a pimple cream or diet or an exercise video and make all kinds of claims about the benefits. It doesn't mean they actually use the dream or stick to the diet. It's just selling a product. But some people can't believe the Great Jordan Peterson would do that.

Honest JP, couldn't tell a lie to sell his products. And he continues to sell his products, like this 'cure', based on nothing but his word.

Ah, holy wells work..

El_Duderino 09

MrKingsley wrote: »

From the interviews I listened to yes I would believe him. I don't see why he would bother lying about that. He also was at pains to state that he WAS NOT RECOMMENDING everyone do it but just said that he felt fresher, healthier and more alert.

Oh yes he's careful to use the wording his lawyer gives to make sure he's in the clear and definitely not recommending the products his daughter sells. He just talks about the amazing 'cures' he got from using the diet.

His daughter sells counselling sessions in the all beef diet and she is careful to use the correct legal formulation of words too. She sells sessions on the diet and it's benefits, but definitely isn't recommending it. Lol.

If you believe this stuff, you're in real danger if believing anything

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah, holy wells work..

Of course they do. As does the all beef miracle diet 'cure', right?

There's no accounting for what some people will believe. Salesmen like Peterson rely on that aspect of humanity. But if you believe the all beef diet, then I think you're in the high risk category.

Dude..get over it..

What do you think upsets you the most about him?..

Maybe you should knock the dry January on the head if you're getting this wound up about a two year old interview..

MrKingsley

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Oh yes he's careful to use the wording his lawyer gives to make sure he's in the clear and definitely not recommending the products his daughter sells. He just talks about the amazing 'cures' he got from using the diet.

His daughter sells counselling sessions in the all beef diet and she is careful to use the correct legal formulation of words too. She sells sessions on the diet and it's benefits, but definitely isn't recommending it. Lol.

If you believe this stuff, you're in real danger if believing anything

My lord. You clearly have an agenda seeing as you can’t even accept my opinion on whether I think he is being truthful or not.

You obviously know what is really going on and nothing will change your mind about that. Yet it is me who is “in danger of believing anything”. Have a think about that

Zubeneschamali

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe you should knock the dry January on the head if you're getting this wound up about a two year old interview..

Erm, he only checked into rehab to help with his definitely-not-beef benzo habit in September. He cancelled his November London show. We are not just talking about the 2 year old interview here.

El_Duderino 09

MrKingsley wrote: »

My lord. You clearly have an agenda seeing as you can’t even accept my opinion on whether I think he is being truthful or not.

You obviously know what is really going on and nothing will change your mind about that. Yet it is me who is “in danger of believing anything”. Have a think about that

You say nothing could change my mind but some evidence could change my mind. All we have is JP's word that he ate an all beef diet and I would need more evidence than that.

If you believe JP on that, I wonder how outrageous a claim he would have to make for you to not believe him.

For example I would like some expert evidence on what would happen if someone ate an all beef diet. So here's an actual medical doctor Jack Gilbert, the faculty director at the University of Chicago’s Microbiome Center and a professor of surgery taken from this article in the Atlantic
“Physiologically, it would just be an immensely bad idea. A terribly, terribly bad idea.”

Gilbert has done extensive research on how the trillions of microbes in our guts digest food, and the look on his face when I told him about the all-beef diet was unamused. He began rattling off the expected ramifications: “Your body would start to have severe dysregulation, within six months, of the majority of the processes that deal with metabolism; you would have no short-chain fatty acids in your cells; most of the by-products of gastrointestinal polysaccharide fermentation would shut down, so you wouldn’t be able to regulate your hormone levels; you’d enter into cardiac issues due to alterations in cell receptors; your microbiota would just be devastated.”

So he seems pretty sure it isn't a viable diet. But he's only a medical doctor, right?

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Erm, he only checked into rehab to help with his definitely-not-beef benzo habit in September. He cancelled his November London show. We are not just talking about the 2 year old interview here.

Well, this is a thread about a two year old interview.. yeah, he checked into rehab due to prescribed meds..benzo addiction is serious..is that something that should be used against him?

MrKingsley

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You say nothing could change my mind but some evidence could change my mind. All we have is JP's word that he ate an all beef diet and I would need more evidence than that.

If you believe JP on that, I wonder how outrageous a claim he would have to make for you to not believe him.

For example I would like some expert evidence on what would happen if someone ate an all beef diet. So here's an actual medical doctor Jack Gilbert, the faculty director at the University of Chicago’s Microbiome Center and a professor of surgery taken from this article in the Atlantic
“Physiologically, it would just be an immensely bad idea. A terribly, terribly bad idea.”

Gilbert has done extensive research on how the trillions of microbes in our guts digest food, and the look on his face when I told him about the all-beef diet was unamused. He began rattling off the expected ramifications: “Your body would start to have severe dysregulation, within six months, of the majority of the processes that deal with metabolism; you would have no short-chain fatty acids in your cells; most of the by-products of gastrointestinal polysaccharide fermentation would shut down, so you wouldn’t be able to regulate your hormone levels; you’d enter into cardiac issues due to alterations in cell receptors; your microbiota would just be devastated.”

So he seems pretty sure it isn't a viable diet. But he's only a medical doctor, right?

I’m not here to change your mind. You asked me whether I believed him. I said yes. I didn’t say I thought it was a good idea.

You claimed that he is/was just cashing in on this diet. I said that would be incredibly unprofessional of him and highly unlikely that was the case. Almost impossible actually seeing as he has devoted his entire professional life to helping individuals progress personally and professionally.

And just so we are clear I am not some worshipping fanboy of his. I think he makes some excellent, professional and researched points on mental health. I have found some of his lectures on society and it’s formation really interesting.

I wouldn’t be with him on climate change for example.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude..get over it..

What do you think upsets you the most about him?..

Maybe you should knock the dry January on the head if you're getting this wound up about a two year old interview..

In this instance it's peddling a complete nonsense miracle 'cure'. That's pretty out of order if you ask me. Mental health is important. It's desperately cynical for a bloke who actually suffers with depression to peddle a nonsense 'cure' to other sufferers for his (and his daughter's) gain.

Don't you agree?

silverharp

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You say nothing could change my mind but some evidence could change my mind. All we have is JP's word that he ate an all beef diet and I would need more evidence than that.

If you believe JP on that, I wonder how outrageous a claim he would have to make for you to not believe him.

For example I would like some expert evidence on what would happen if someone ate an all beef diet. So here's an actual medical doctor Jack Gilbert, the faculty director at the University of Chicago’s Microbiome Center and a professor of surgery taken from this article in the Atlantic
“Physiologically, it would just be an immensely bad idea. A terribly, terribly bad idea.”

Gilbert has done extensive research on how the trillions of microbes in our guts digest food, and the look on his face when I told him about the all-beef diet was unamused. He began rattling off the expected ramifications: “Your body would start to have severe dysregulation, within six months, of the majority of the processes that deal with metabolism; you would have no short-chain fatty acids in your cells; most of the by-products of gastrointestinal polysaccharide fermentation would shut down, so you wouldn’t be able to regulate your hormone levels; you’d enter into cardiac issues due to alterations in cell receptors; your microbiota would just be devastated.”

So he seems pretty sure it isn't a viable diet. But he's only a medical doctor, right?

still sounds like he is guessing. There are enough people out there doing it, has he actually tested these people?

El_Duderino 09

MrKingsley wrote: »

I’m not here to change your mind. You asked me whether I believed him. I said yes. I didn’t say I thought it was a good idea.

You claimed that he is/was just cashing in on this diet. I said that would be incredibly unprofessional of him and highly unlikely that was the case. Almost impossible actually seeing as he has devoted his entire professional life to helping individuals progress personally and professionally.

And just so we are clear I am not some worshipping fanboy of his. I think he makes some excellent, professional and researched points on mental health. I have found some of his lectures on society and it’s formation really interesting.

I wouldn’t be with him on climate change for example.

I accept that you believe him. I just cant get over the lack of scepticism and the credulity simply because Peterson said it.

It is incredibly unprofessional of him to promote a miracle diet 'cure'. It's not a real thing. It's far more likely that he's cashing in on the fad diet than he followed the all beef diet and it cured his depression.

You say he "makes some excellent, professional and researched points on mental health" but he also makes some completely unprofessional claims about the all beef 'cure' for mental illness - which you can purchase from his daughter.

Honestly, that's really out of order.

Tbh it really looks like the diet is the one thing you have with which to attack him, and you're doing so with gusto..

MrKingsley

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I accept that you believe him. I just cant get over the lack of scepticism and the credulity simply because Peterson said it.

It is incredibly unprofessional of him to promote a miracle diet 'cure'. It's not a real thing. It's far more likely that he's cashing in on the fad diet than he followed the all beef diet and it cured his depression.

You say he "makes some excellent, professional and researched points on mental health" but he also makes some completely unprofessional claims about the all beef 'cure' for mental illness - which you can purchase from his daughter.

Honestly, that's really out of order.

He said it works for him and his daughter. Now if you want to believe that he is not recommending other people do it because it is what his lawyers say then so be it.

We may as well just leave it anyway cos we’ll just continue going round in circles otherwise

Zubeneschamali

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, this is a thread about a two year old interview.. yeah, he checked into rehab due to prescribed meds..benzo addiction is serious..is that something that should be used against him?

It should be used against his claim that the all-beef diet was dealing with his long term depression, yes. It's hard to get a benzo addiction when eating nothing but beef and salt.

The fact that needed benzos for anxiety and he tried to quit the benzos using will power alone and failed should be used against his simple-minded 12 Rules stuff about how to deal with difficult stuff in life by being responsible and self-reliant and petting cats.