Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’d challenge Peterson’s apologists to say they understood all of that word salad.

But sone parts were in plain English. Like how, as an old conservative, he thinks young people are doing it all wrong and young people were better back in the old days. If you’re old you can blame the left for creating today’s problems so no need to worry if you’re conservative, you’re definitely not at fault.

Identity politics is bad and it’s all the leftist’s fault. Identifying with your race or gender is bad. And identifying with religion is bad ( presumably he’s not talking about conservative evangelical Christian voters in the US) had doesn’t mention those people. Nor does he mention gun rights or abortion ‘single issue voters’.

That doesn’t seem to be worth a mention but LEFTIST identity politics is dreadful.

It could be summed us as ‘ Peterson says things conservatives would enjoy hearing. Including the classic tracks ‘it’s all the left’s fault’, and ‘young people nowadays do it wrong’’

I haven't listened to the specific interview, if someone cared to link it it'd be great. He can be a bit long winded in what he's saying sometimes, I'd agree. I don't think it's a deliberate masquerade of some sort, I think he's trying to be precise in his speech and avoid oversimplifying what he's trying to say.

While he might say a lot of things that conservatives like, I think it's a stretch to say that he says these things BECAUSE conservatives like them. Additionally I don't think what he says should be ignored or sneered at without any consideration, only because they are sentiments sometimes expressed by conservatives.

xckjoo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’d challenge Peterson’s apologists to say they understood all of that word salad.

But sone parts were in plain English. Like how, as an old conservative, he thinks young people are doing it all wrong and young people were better back in the old days. If you’re old you can blame the left for creating today’s problems so no need to worry if you’re conservative, you’re definitely not at fault.

Identity politics is bad and it’s all the leftist’s fault. Identifying with your race or gender is bad. And identifying with religion is bad ( presumably he’s not talking about conservative evangelical Christian voters in the US) had doesn’t mention those people. Nor does he mention gun rights or abortion ‘single issue voters’.

That doesn’t seem to be worth a mention but LEFTIST identity politics is dreadful.

It could be summed us as ‘ Peterson says things conservatives would enjoy hearing. Including the classic tracks ‘it’s all the left’s fault’, and ‘young people nowadays do it wrong’’

I find him more critical of the older generation than the younger. Anything I've heard him criticise about universities has been focused on administrative aspects and "how things have been let get this far" type scenarios. He's generally seems quite passive about younger people; seeing their issues as a failure of the older generation to pass on/prepare them.
He seems to be a one-man Rorschach Test.

El_Duderino 09

Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »

I haven't listened to the specific interview, if someone cared to link it it'd be great. He can be a bit long winded in what he's saying sometimes, I'd agree. I don't think it's a deliberate masquerade of some sort, I think he's trying to be precise in his speech and avoid oversimplifying what he's trying to say.

While he might say a lot of things that conservatives like, I think it's a stretch to say that he says these things BECAUSE conservatives like them. Additionally I don't think what he says should be ignored or sneered at without any consideration, only because they are sentiments sometimes expressed by conservatives.

He’s long winded, but he doesn’t try to be precise. He uses metaphor and redefined words so often that he build in loads of ambiguity and room for interpretation.

He shouldn’t he dismissed because its conservative. It’s like Fox News. It’s conservative content designed to sell to a conservative audience. I’m sure Fox News is correct on some issues, but I wouldn’t recommend using it as a reliable source of information.

xckjoo

Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »

I haven't listened to the specific interview, if someone cared to link it it'd be great. He can be a bit long winded in what he's saying sometimes, I'd agree. I don't think it's a deliberate masquerade of some sort, I think he's trying to be precise in his speech and avoid oversimplifying what he's trying to say.

While he might say a lot of things that conservatives like, I think it's a stretch to say that he says these things BECAUSE conservatives like them. Additionally I don't think what he says should be ignored or sneered at without any consideration, only because they are sentiments sometimes expressed by conservatives.

Nobody in this thread backs up their claims so don't hold your breath. It's all about the outrage

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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He’s long winded, but he doesn’t try to be precise. He uses metaphor and redefined words so often that he build in loads of ambiguity and room for interpretation.

He shouldn’t he dismissed because its conservative. It’s like Fox News. It’s conservative content designed to sell to a conservative audience. I’m sure Fox News is correct on some issues, but I wouldn’t recommend using it as a reliable source of information.

Do you really believe it's "designed to sell"? The man has been putting his thoughts and lectures on youtube for years because he believes them to be true, not to "sell" a product. He got thrown into fame after the backlash to his video objecting to C16. I don't see how you can make a case that he's a conservative mouthpiece trying to sell content to an audience.

El_Duderino 09

xckjoo wrote: »

I find him more critical of the older generation than the younger. Anything I've heard him criticise about universities has been focused on administrative aspects and "how things have been let get this far" type scenarios. He's generally seems quite passive about younger people; seeing their issues as a failure of the older generation to pass on/prepare them.
He seems to be a one-man Rorschach Test.

I’m not aware
If him blaming older people. It would be the implication but I’m not aware of him ever making that point. He blames Marxism and the left, but that’s as far as the blame goes.

I’d safely say he’s not making the point that older conservative people have any blame- unlike those leftists.

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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’m not aware
If him blaming older people. It would be the implication but I’m not aware of him ever making that point. He blames Marxism and the left, but that’s as far as the blame goes.

I’d safely say he’s not making the point that older conservative people have any blame- unlike those leftists.

Can you quote something specifically regarding the leftists, where you think the blame should also be attributed to conservatives?

If he regards Marxism and the left as the greatest threat to society at the moment, why should be also attack older conservatives ?

xckjoo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’m not aware
If him blaming older people. It would be the implication but I’m not aware of him ever making that point. He blames Marxism and the left, but that’s as far as the blame goes.

I’d safely say he’s not making the point that older conservative people have any blame- unlike those leftists.

Ya but you're more than a little biased in your opinions on the guy and his intentions :pac:

El_Duderino 09

xckjoo wrote: »

Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »

I haven't listened to the specific interview, if someone cared to link it it'd be great. He can be a bit long winded in what he's saying sometimes, I'd agree. I don't think it's a deliberate masquerade of some sort, I think he's trying to be precise in his speech and avoid oversimplifying what he's trying to say.

Nobody in this thread backs up their claims so don't hold your breath. It's all about the outrage

Here. A quick google and violà

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bgpswg#play

CruelCoin

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He shouldn’t he dismissed because its conservative. It’s like Fox News. It’s conservative content designed to sell to a conservative audience. I’m sure Fox News is correct on some issues, but I wouldn’t recommend using it as a reliable source of information.

I'm not sure it's conservative at all.

He's often painted as being some sort of gender hating scumbag, but what he's actually campaigning on is his being forced to use certain words.

If anything that's a liberal idea, fighting for freedom of expression.

Idiots and idealogues interpret that wrongly as his being against the lgbtq+(etc).

xckjoo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Here. A quick google and violà

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bgpswg#play

Have you listened to this or just copied the first link you found?

El_Duderino 09

Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »

Do you really believe it's "designed to sell"? The man has been putting his thoughts and lectures on youtube for years because he believes them to be true, not to "sell" a product. He got thrown into fame after the backlash to his video objecting to C16. I don't see how you can make a case that he's a conservative mouthpiece trying to sell content to an audience.

Yes of course it’s designed to sell to a conservative audience.

He makes points which could equally be applied to the right and left, but only articulates the point against the left.

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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes of course it’s designed to sell to a conservative audience.

He makes points which could equally be applied to the right and left, but only articulates the point against the left.

For example?

El_Duderino 09

xckjoo wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Here. A quick google and violà

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bgpswg#play

Have you listened to this or just copied the first link you found?

I listened to it. And apart from the poster who raised the issue a few posts back, I think I’m the only one here who listened to it.

El_Duderino 09

Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes of course it’s designed to sell to a conservative audience.

He makes points which could equally be applied to the right and left, but only articulates the point against the left.

For example?

For example the interview were discussing. He talks about how bad identity politics is. Identifying with a group based on gender or sexual orientation and it’s the left’s fault The same point could equally be made of conservative groups like evangelical Christians, or single issue politics like abortion or gun rights.

But he would never voluntarily make that point about conservatives. He only makes the point about how the left does these things.

His audience doesn’t want to hear about how they’re wrong. They only want to hear about how the left are wrong.

Outlaw Pete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

For example the interview were discussing. He talks about how bad identity politics is. Identifying with a group based on gender or sexual orientation and it’s the left’s fault The same point could equally be made of conservative groups like evangelical Christians, or single issue politics like abortion or gun rights.

But he would never voluntarily make that point about conservatives. He only makes the point about how the left does these things.

His audience doesn’t want to hear about how they’re wrong. They only want to hear about how the left are wrong.

Utter nonsense, he has criticized identity politics on both sides many times.

Here's an example of him doing just that when he furthers a point Ben Shapiro is making in this regard:

El_Duderino 09

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Utter nonsense, he has criticized identity politics on both sides many times.

Here's an example of him doing just that when he furthers a point Ben Shapiro is making in this regard:

That link isn’t working for me.

Listen to the interview above. He repeatedly blames the left and identity politics. He mentions the right to say they go to far when they promote white supremacy.

Apart from that the entire interview is saying why young people and the left are wrong.

Outlaw Pete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That link isn’t working for me.

It's a YouTube video. Try another browser if it's not working.

Here's a few lines from it:

Peterson: "[Identity politics] opens the door to the radical right wingers..."
Shapiro: "Yes and that's the danger of the actual alt-right as the alt-right is a reactionary identity politics movement and the left doesn't want acknowledge its own role in helping to drive the emergence of a reactionary identity politics movement, which by the way, I find despicable as I think all identity politics movements are despicable"
Peterson: "That's exactly what i think too. I don't care if they're on the right or the left."

El_Duderino 09

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That link isn’t working for me.

It's a YouTube video. Try another browser if it's not working.

Here's a few lines from it:

Peterson: "[Identity politics] opens the door to the radical right wingers..."
Shapiro: "Yes and that's the danger of the actual alt-right as the alt-right is a reactionary identity politics movement and the left doesn't want acknowledge its own role in helping to drive the emergence of a reactionary identity politics movement, which by the way, I find despicable as I think all identity politics movements are despicable"
Peterson: "That's exactly what i think too. I don't care if they're on the right or the left."

I’m using the boards app. It just says invalid video. I think I find the interview but it’s an hour and a half long. What part of the video is relevant?

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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’m using the boards app. It just says invalid video. I think I find the interview but it’s an hour and a half long. What part of the video is relevant?

From 8:37

CruelCoin

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

Just listened to this OP for the first time today. Really enjoyed it! Damn that woman wrecked my head throughout.

So what you're saying is

El_Duderino 09

Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’m using the boards app. It just says invalid video. I think I find the interview but it’s an hour and a half long. What part of the video is relevant?

From 8:37

I have the wrong video. He’s just banging on about religion.

On any case, Peterson says soooooo much that it’s probably easy to cherry pick him saying anything. When I’ve heard him discussing the problems it’s all in the context of the left. He throws in a mandatory disclaimer that the right could also do it, but then gets back to demonstrating how the young and the left are the problem.

He does it expertly in the bbc 4 interview. He hoes on and on about the young and the left and Marxists. Then he says the right goes too far when it advocates for radial supremacy. It’s almost a complete non sequitur. Then back to talking about how the left and the young and the Marxists are the problem.

He gets to dedicate the entire interview to rubbishing the young and left and Marxists, but his flock can quote the one unrelated sentence where he also voiced opposition to the racial supremacists.

Classic stuff.

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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I have the wrong video. He’s just banging on about religion.

On any case, Peterson says soooooo much that it’s probably easy to cherry pick him saying anything. When I’ve heard him discussing the problems it’s all in the context of the left. He throws in a mandatory disclaimer that the right could also do it, but then gets back to demonstrating how the young and the left are the problem.

He does it expertly in the bbc 4 interview. He hoes on and on about the young and the left and Marxists. Then he says the right goes too far when it advocates for radial supremacy. It’s almost a complete non sequitur. Then back to talking about how the left and the young and the Marxists are the problem.

He gets to dedicate the entire interview to rubbishing the young and left and Marxists, but his flock can quote the one unrelated sentence where he also voiced opposition to the racial supremacists.

Classic stuff.

Do you think the majority of young people are left leaning or right leaning in today's world?

El_Duderino 09

Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »

Do you think the majority of young people are left leaning or right leaning in today's world?

I don’t know what that has to do with the post you quoted but I’ll answer anyway.

I would have presumed the majority are left leaning. That’s almost a given that compared to the old people, young people are to the left of old people.

But I actually heard that polling in the US has shown millennial men are majority trump supporters. So I don’t know for sure.

Assume they’re majority left and make your point

Zubeneschamali

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But I actually heard that polling in the US has shown millennial men are majority trump supporters.

That's the racism and misogyny vote.

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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don’t know what that has to do with the post you quoted but I’ll answer anyway.

I would have presumed the majority are left leaning. That’s almost a given that compared to the old people, young people are to the left of old people.

But I actually heard that polling in the US has shown millennial men are majority trump supporters. So I don’t know for sure.

Assume they’re majority left and make your point

I thought the point is pretty obvious. If the huge threat (from Mr.Peterson's perspective) is the left and marxism in general, and indeed the majority of young people today are left leaning, as are the university institutions, it would stand to reason that he would focus his criticisms on them.

It seems strange to me that you choose to focus on the idea that he criticises the right a lot less, and that this is due to him wanting to "sell" conservative ideas. It appears to me that he sees way more of a threat from the left and that's what he chooses to address.

El_Duderino 09

Parker Fat Ladyfinger wrote: »

I thought the point is pretty obvious. If the huge threat (from Mr.Peterson's perspective) is the left and marxism in general, and indeed the majority of young people today are left leaning, as are the university institutions, it would stand to reason that he would focus his criticisms on them.

It seems strange to me that you choose to focus on the idea that he criticises the right a lot less, and that this is due to him wanting to "sell" conservative ideas. It appears to me that he sees way more of a threat from the left and that's what he chooses to address.

Yeah and the same could be said of Fox News. Fox sees the left as the problem and the right as the solution and it’s output reflects those assumptions. It makes fox news and Peterson very appealing to the right and not a reliable source of information.

The arguments might be well reasoned but the conclusions will always be the same - the left is the problem. And when the. Premises are the same as the conclusion, you’ve got a circular argument.

So he spends an entire interview blaming things on the he left, he young and the Marxists, plus one line distancing himself from racial supremacy, and voila. Another classic interview by Peterson.

I don’t know if anyone has bothered listening to the interview but it’s pretty simple. Young people do it wrong, the left are the problem. If you’re old and conservative you’ve no fault as long as you’re not a racial supremacist because then you might get as bad as the left.

If that’s not content created for conservative and right wing consumption, then I can’t imagine what would be.

El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But I actually heard that polling in the US has shown millennial men are majority trump supporters.

That's the racism and misogyny vote.

It might be. But if it’s a majority of millennial men then it’s also perfectly normal. I don't know how robust the research was though.

xckjoo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I have the wrong video. He’s just banging on about religion.

On any case, Peterson says soooooo much that it’s probably easy to cherry pick him saying anything. When I’ve heard him discussing the problems it’s all in the context of the left. He throws in a mandatory disclaimer that the right could also do it, but then gets back to demonstrating how the young and the left are the problem.

He does it expertly in the bbc 4 interview. He hoes on and on about the young and the left and Marxists. Then he says the right goes too far when it advocates for radial supremacy. It’s almost a complete non sequitur. Then back to talking about how the left and the young and the Marxists are the problem.

He gets to dedicate the entire interview to rubbishing the young and left and Marxists, but his flock can quote the one unrelated sentence where he also voiced opposition to the racial supremacists.

Classic stuff.

At some point I heard him talking about how we've already seen the extremes of the right and have some ideas of what that entails and the damage it can cause, but we haven't yet seen what damage can occur when the extreme left are given unfettered reins. He seems to have spent a long time studying right-wing extremism in his younger days and seems to be spending more time looking at left-wing extremism now. He might not say "I'm against right wing extremism" in every interview, but that doesn't mean he isn't. He does seem to be conservative in his outlook, but that's not the same as being right-wing. We all tend to drift in that direction as we age anyway.

I think your dislike for the guy has a habit of tainting your opinion on everything he says.

Giraffe Box

xckjoo wrote: »

At some point I heard him talking about how we've already seen the extremes of the right and have some ideas of what that entails and the damage it can cause, but we haven't yet seen what damage can occur when the extreme left are given unfettered reins. He seems to have spent a long time studying right-wing extremism in his younger days and seems to be spending more time looking at left-wing extremism now. He might not say "I'm against right wing extremism" in every interview, but that doesn't mean he isn't. He does seem to be conservative in his outlook, but that's not the same as being right-wing. We all tend to drift in that direction as we age anyway.

I think your dislike for the guy has a habit of tainting your opinion on everything he says.

If he's an admirer of Solzhenitsyn, and named one of his children after Gorbachev - as stated in the piece below this post - then he has obviously been 'studying' left-wing extremism for some time.

Also, if 'we all tend to drift in that direction as we age' then perhaps JP needn't worry too much about young folk and their attraction to the dreaded 'collectivism'. They'll grow out of it, no need to fret.

I'll take a wild guess and say that the reason the poster 'dislikes' Petersen is because he disagrees with most of his utterances....unless of course he knows him personally....come in El Dude!

What would you say about people who gave Petersen a standing ovation before he even opened his mouth (as happened at the 3Arena recently)......minds already made up do you think?....or perhaps they just like him!

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/how-dangerous-is-jordan-b-peterson-the-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest