Whole food plant based MD

jive

WannaGetFit wrote: »

Really? Look for a GP? Did u read my first post?
There are false reviews on everything these days. You have got to be kidding me thinking drugs companies wouldn’t be bothered.

Maybe you should google it then because plenty of doctors come up.

Yeh I’m sure drug companies like Pfizer are paying for bad reviews of forks over knives on obscure online sites. They’re probably desperate to stop everyone going plant based on the back of viewing that movie in case it puts a huge dent in their nearly 2 billion dollar sales of Lipitor, a drug which made nearly $150 billion while on patent. Seems likely.

WannaGetFit

jive wrote: »

WannaGetFit wrote: »

Really? Look for a GP? Did u read my first post?
There are false reviews on everything these days. You have got to be kidding me thinking drugs companies wouldn’t be bothered.

Maybe you should google it then because plenty of doctors come up.


Yeh I’m sure drug companies like Pfizer are paying for bad reviews of forks over knives on obscure online sites. They’re probably desperate to stop everyone going plant based on the back of viewing that movie in case it puts a huge dent in their nearly 2 billion dollar sales of Lipitor, a drug which made nearly $150 billion while on patent. Seems likely.

MDs? In Dublin? I see one. What did u search for?
Maybe you are right about the drugs companies. Doesn’t matter. Point is there are good and bad reviews for everything these days.

jh79

WannaGetFit wrote: »

MDs? In Dublin? I see one. What did u search for?
Maybe you are right about the drugs companies. Doesn’t matter. Point is there are good and bad reviews for everything these days.

It's not a movie review, it's a reveiw of the science and how it is misrepresented in the movie.

The claims made by Forks Over Knives and similar films like Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead are not true. These types of diets offer no benefits over a balanced diet and they won't cure you of anything.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

It's not a movie review, it's a reveiw of the science and how it is misrepresented in the movie.

The claims made by Forks Over Knives and similar films like Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead are not true. These types of diets offer no benefits over a balanced diet and they won't cure you of anything.

Forks over knives and fat, sick and nearly dead are not similar movies. Not even close.

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Forks over knives and fat, sick and nearly dead are not similar movies. Not even close.

Similar in the sense that the claims they make are not backed by science.

weisses

WannaGetFit wrote: »

I know they worked for me and still do. I never said they didn’t. I am just looking for an alternative.

Diabetes is tricky but personally I would not hesitate to get my cholesterol checked prior to going "Plant based" leave the pills for a while and get a blood test done again or ask your GP If he dismisses the idea that a proper diet can reduce your cholesterol I would start looking for another GP ( that is my personal opinion of course)

I am not saying you should do the above ... But i did something similar re cholesterol and I know people with diabetes who kept a close eye on their glucose levels with their home testers while being on a plant based diet

You can monitor yourself relatively easy

jh79

weisses wrote: »

Diabetes is tricky but personally I would not hesitate to get my cholesterol checked prior to going "Plant based" leave the pills for a while and get a blood test done again or ask your GP If he dismisses the idea that a proper diet can reduce your cholesterol I would start looking for another GP ( that is my personal opinion of course)

I am not saying you should do the above ... But i did something similar re cholesterol and I know people with diabetes who kept a close eye on their glucose levels with their home testers while being on a plant based diet

You can monitor yourself relatively easy

In general can't see any doctor having a problem with that except that they would say that reducing red meat intake would be sufficient and no extra advantage would be gained from a purely plant based diet.

The OP's situation is complicated by his family history. The risk to the OP is greater. Any responsible doctor will insist on doing what's proven to work.

My cholesterol is over 6, my doctor told me just to keep an eye on it. But my family doesn't have a history of heart disease.

Ignore films like Forks Over Knives they are mostly a load of BS.

weisses

jh79 wrote: »

In general can't see any doctor having a problem with that except that they would say that reducing red meatprotein intake would be sufficient and no extra advantage would be gained from a purely plant based diet.

Exchange red meat for protein .. Its not only red meat that is the issue

jh79 wrote: »

The OP's situation is complicated by his family history. The risk to the OP is greater. Any responsible doctor will insist on doing what's proven to work.

Which in many cases is a pharmaceutical "solution"

Let food be thy medicine and let medicine be thy food ... said by a wise man

jh79 wrote: »

Ignore films like Forks Over Knives they are mostly a load of BS.

Garth Davis is a good source imo

jh79

weisses wrote: »

Exchange red meat for protein .. Its not only red meat that is the issue



Which in many cases is a pharmaceutical "solution"

Let food be thy medicine and let medicine be thy food ... said by a wise man



Garth Davis is a good source imo

That was said by a wise man in 370 BC. Clinical trials and population based studies tell us he wasn't that wise after all.

Garth Davis contributed to "What the Health", another movie that cherry picks and mis represents scientific studies.

jigglypuffstuff

WannaGetFit wrote: »

Ok, let me be more specific.
I am looking for a Dr who believes in coming off blood pressure and cholesterol tablets in favour of a whole food plant based plan and will support it. One that I can meet, talk to and discuss my specific health with

From reading this...it appears to be the following

You are not looking for a doctor to tell you the Truth from their many years of education.

You are looking for a doctor to give you permission to do something you've already decided you want to do .

Inevitably if anything goes wrong the blame will fall on their shoulders, not yours

With the greatest respect, can you see the issue with that??

weisses

jh79 wrote: »

That was said by a wise man in 370 BC. Clinical trials and population based studies tell us he wasn't that wise after all.

Garth Davis contributed to "What the Health", another movie that cherry picks and mis represents scientific studies.

What is it that Dr Davis says that makes no sense ? Im all ears ... no general swiping statements please

weisses

pone2012 wrote: »

From reading this...it appears to be the following

You are not looking for a doctor to tell you the Truth from their many years of education.

Truth is that when it comes to food, medical training is inadequate .... to say the least ... So they cannot give proper advise .... they are trained to prescribe medicine

The amount of nutrition education in medical schools remains inadequate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/

jigglypuffstuff

weisses wrote: »

Truth is that when it comes to food, medical training is inadequate .... to say the least ... So they cannot give proper advise .... they are trained to prescribe medicine



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/

I'm well aware of the pitfalls of nutritional understanding in medical schools

But read OPs post..we are talking about medicine...and abstaining from in favour of a diet that lacks nutritionally... which as pointed out is not a good idea

Doctor's are more than qualified to advise in that case..we are talking about actual medicine here Incase you missed that?

weisses

pone2012 wrote: »

I'm well aware of the pitfalls of nutritional understanding in medical schools

But read OPs post..we are talking about medicine...and abstaining from in favour of a diet that lacks nutritionally... which as pointed out is not a good idea

Doctor's are more than qualified to advise in that case..we are talking about actual medicine here Incase you missed that?

Since you are aware you must also be aware the part in bold is nonsensical right ?


Yes I already said doctors are trained to prescribe medicine ... big pharma makes sure they do

jigglypuffstuff

weisses wrote: »

Since you are aware you must also be aware the part in bold is nonsensical right ?


Yes I already said doctors are trained to prescribe medicine ... big pharma makes sure they do

Please spare me the big pharma nonsense
There are people with congenital predisposition to such issues....they need medication..plant based or not ...

I'm not into discussion of busines so try another person to pursue that narrative with... and I'm more than aware if the pitfalls of the biomedical reactive model of healthcare... again I'll tell you pursue that narrative with another person

Any nutritionist would be of the same opinion...and certainly in no way tell somebody to cease medication in favour of food.. unless of course they like potentially threatening their life and facing possible lawsuits.. doctor or nutritionist..the results will be the same

Read again the OP...the poster wants a "yes " person to agree with them and their perception of what is right..not an objective medical professionals opinion...

jh79

weisses wrote: »

What is it that Dr Davis says that makes no sense ? Im all ears ... no general swiping statements please

Never said he makes no sense.

Never heard of the guy. But What the Health, which he contributed to according to google, cherry picks and misrepresents scientific studies. That rings alarm bells for me.

Tar.Aldarion

Just eat the healthy diet while on the drugs, if your numbers are good you can then talk toa doctor about reducing your medication if they see fit. Don't do a steve jobs to yourself.

weisses

pone2012 wrote: »

Please spare me the big pharma nonsense
There are people with congenital predisposition to such issues....they need medication..plant based or not ...

Then in return please spare me the utter nonsense that a proper plant based diet lacks nutrition ....

weisses

jh79 wrote: »

Never said he makes no sense.

Never heard of the guy. But What the Health, which he contributed to according to google, cherry picks and misrepresents scientific studies. That rings alarm bells for me.

Then maybe you need to actually spend some time researching what he says instead of forming an opinion on a quick google search .. Did you check his contribution on the What the health movie ?

weisses

pone2012 wrote: »

Read again the OP...the poster wants a "yes " person to agree with them and their perception of what is right..not an objective medical professionals opinion...

Maybe read the op again ... And leave your bias out of it

You can give an objective medical opinion as a proffesional

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466941/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-right-plant-based-diet-for-you

http://nutritionstudies.org/top-10-plant-based-research-and-news-stories-2016/

The Undecided One

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Just eat the healthy diet while on the drugs, if your numbers are good you can then talk toa doctor about reducing your medication if they see fit. Don't do a steve jobs to yourself.

Exactly, stay on the middle of the road, take your medicine and continue your diet.

When your levels are in the 'normal' range discuss with your GP coming off the drugs, even for a few weeks/months and continue monitoring your cholesterol levels.

This should satisfy both you and your doctor, you get to go off the meds, he gets to monitor you and if needed put you back on the meds.

jh79

weisses wrote: »

Then maybe you need to actually spend some time researching what he says instead of forming an opinion on a quick google search .. Did you check his contribution on the What the health movie ?

I haven't formed an opinion on him yet. I just said his involvement in that film raises alarm bells for me, that is all.

jigglypuffstuff

weisses wrote: »

Then in return please spare me the utter nonsense that a proper plant based diet lacks nutrition ....

Yes sorry I forgot all about the b12 injections and manufactured omega 3 supplements... and the fact that humans are by nature omnivore.. nonsense no...fact yes

But feel free to ignore biology in favour of your personal subjective biases.... while you're at it cherry pick all the documentaries and misrepresent the body of knowledge collected to date.. sway your argument to one side rather then undertake a critical analysis because it clashes with your opinion of right and wrong...go right ahead

Fwiw this is all coming from a person who eats substantially more plants than meat/fish daily..and some days abstain completely...but the facts are the facts, and unlike you I won't pretend the are something they're not

Day Lewin

O.P. --
-- Why is it so important to get a doctor's "Green light" on stopping the medications?
Nobody is actually FORCING you to take them: you could just stop. You could choose to just stay with the healthy diet you propose and avoid medicines for the time being.
Of course, if you then have cardiac problems, - or if you feel fine for six months or a year - you could then go back to a doctor, cardiologist, or dietician and get their opinion, post-experiment.
On the other hand, if you get a heart attack and drop dead, who will you complain to then?
Not being flippant: just asking for a pragmatic assessment.

jigglypuffstuff

weisses wrote: »

Maybe read the op again ... And leave your bias out of it

You can give an objective medical opinion as a proffesional

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466941/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-right-plant-based-diet-for-you

http://nutritionstudies.org/top-10-plant-based-research-and-news-stories-2016/

Good confirmation bias...good boy... now go find just as much cherry picked information on the benefits of animal proteins...then after a critical analysis come to the conclusion that an omnivorous diet primarily of plants featuring some selective animal sources is the most beneficial one.... after that you can spin your little moral spider web but it doesn't change s thing regards the former

Of course there's always supplements.. but then again....big pharma are pure evil aren't they???

weisses

pone2012 wrote: »

Yes sorry I forgot all about the b12 injections and manufactured omega 3 supplements... and the fact that humans are by nature omnivore.. nonsense no...fact yes

I am not disputing people can eat meat

I am disputing the nonsensical claim that a proper plant based diet lack nutrition ... .I even put in a few links to make it easier for you to understand

pone2012 wrote: »

But feel free to ignore biology in favour of your personal subjective biases.... while you're at it cherry pick all the documentaries and misrepresent the body of knowledge collected to date.. sway your argument to one side rather then undertake a critical analysis because it clashes with your opinion of right and wrong...go right ahead

Can you point me to where I did all these things you claim above ?

pone2012 wrote: »

Fwiw this is all coming from a person who eats substantially more plants than meat/fish daily..and some days abstain completely...but the facts are the facts, and unlike you I won't pretend the are something they're not

What are the facts ? ...Maybe back up your position with proper evidence that a proper plant based diet lacks nutrition ..... Otherwise its just another opinion

weisses

pone2012 wrote: »

Good confirmation bias...good boy... now go find just as much cherry picked information on the benefits of animal proteins...then after a critical analysis come to the conclusion that an omnivorous diet primarily of plants featuring some selective animal sources is the most beneficial one.... after that you can spin your little moral spider web but it doesn't change s thing regards the former

Of course there's always supplements.. but then again....big pharma are pure evil aren't they???

Yeah ...those links I posted are biased ....:rolleyes:

I dont need to find research regarding omnivores ... I just pointed out that your claim in regards to plant based diets is nonsensical

Now can you point me in the direction of research that states a proper plant based diet lacks nutrition .... Thanks

jigglypuffstuff

weisses wrote: »

Yeah ...those links I posted are biased ....:rolleyes:

I dont need to find research regarding omnivores ... I just pointed out that your claim in regards to plant based diets is nonsensical

Now can you point me in the direction of research that states a proper plant based diet lacks nutrition .... Thanks

Actually it isn't....the very fact vegans have to be monitored by for nutrients to make sure they are not lacking is indicative of that

Furthermore you've get to provide me a non fortified non medically administered form of b12 that can keep one from falling into deficiency..or vitamin D for that matter

Also while we're at it ...I'd also like to see how aware you are of the codependency of nutrients and the relationship between high fibre diets and nutrient absorption... you'll need to factor that into account too given a lot of vegan diets are far too high in fibre

Sounds like you need to take an awful lot of care to ensure survival... and that is with supplements and fortified foods

Now if you want to support your argument I'll give you the way...go find me a vegan diet that is 100% free of supplements and fortified foods.. and manages to satisfy all nutritional needs

There's a Cron o meter online to do your calculations..I'll be waiting to concede when you manage to do it ( and pigs begin to fly)

Tar.Aldarion

pone2012 wrote: »

Actually it isn't....the very fact vegans have to be monitored by for nutrients to make sure they are not lacking is indicative of that

Furthermore you've get to provide me a non fortified non medically administered form of b12 that can keep one from falling into deficiency..or vitamin D for that matter

Also while we're at it ...I'd also like to see how aware you are of the codependency of nutrients and the relationship between high fibre diets and nutrient absorption... you'll need to factor that into account too given a lot of vegan diets are far too high in fibre

Sounds like you need to take an awful lot of care to ensure survival... and that is with supplements and fortified foods

Now if you want to support your argument I'll give you the way...go find me a vegan diet that is 100% free of supplements and fortified foods.. and manages to satisfy all nutritional needs

There's a Cron o meter online to do your calculations..I'll be waiting to concede when you manage to do it ( and pigs begin to fly)

Not sure of what your appeal to nature is? That supplements are evil? Meat is supplemented with B12 on a wide scale. Most people are vitamin D deficient (70% of the EU and need supplements). People over 50 are recommended to supplement B12 as a lot of them can no longer absorb enough b12 no matter what they eat.

Since every single health organisation says vegan diets are healthy I think that says enough.

jigglypuffstuff

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Not sure of what your appeal to nature is? That supplements are evil? Meat is supplemented with B12 on a wide scale. Most people are vitamin D deficient (70% of the EU and need supplements). People over 50 are recommended to supplement B12 as a lot of them can no longer absorb enough b12 no matter what they eat.

Since every single health organisation says vegan diets are healthy I think that says enough.

It's actually contextually bound to this thread..I usually eat 2 vegan meals out of 3 per day ... and no dairy so I drink almond milk too.. no problem here

Person in question was arguing big pharma nonsense... clearly in the position that "nature" would sort it out ( the OP posited a plant based diet..and said individual implied he agreed medicine was a bad idea)

I have pointed out that nature alone cannot even sort out a simple vegan diet.. let alone what could be a congenitally predisposed issue

A fair conclusion I would argue.