Posts of Responsibilty

ccazza · 25-02-2018 10:08am

liverpool lad wrote: »

Hi. Regarding the new post structure - how are the interviews being conducted in different schools? We have been told that the advertisement will merely say "AP1" or "AP11" but the post you would be going for would not be noted on the job advertisement. The successful candidates at either A1 ir A2 level will then be discussed by management and the roles, based on the needs of the school, assigned on that basis?

It seems a bit bizarre that you'd apply for a post, not knowing what exact post you were going for and end up with the possibility of securing a post you had no interest or experience in due to a lack of people going / showing leadership or interest in that role itself? It seems like a way to deter people applying and getting "yes" people who will do anything into the posts and chop and change them year after year.

Does anyone have any information on this? I've read the circular and it doesn't say that it has to be or doesn't have to be done in this way, but just intrigued as to what other school principals are doing.

Looking forward to hearing all,

Thanks

Apparently that’s the way all posts should have been advertised previous to this too. I was at an information for school stewards day run by the union a few years ago. They said at that meeting that a review of posts needs to be held; a Schedule drawn up and then basically the duties of the post would be drawn up from whatever was on the Schedule that was not already being done already by post holders. In our school we always had the description of the post up with the level of the post but she said this was wrong! The thinking behind it is that anyone should be able to apply for a post as having a very specific job description narrows down the number of people being able to apply for the post. Mind you I thought this was crazy as 20% of the marks on the previous marking scheme was for your ability to do the job! That is now gone though on the new marking criteria.

evolving_doors · 25-02-2018 10:15am

If a job description is too detailed then perhaps many potential applicants might think it's written with someone in mind.

km79 · 25-02-2018 10:38am

evolving_doors wrote: »

If a job description is too detailed then perhaps many potential applicants might think it's written with someone in mind.

Correct
People also moaned about this
Moan about everything
Have a chance to put themselves forward to be on committee to have an input into posts and they can't be bothered
Then moan about the people who do and the resultant post structure
Rant over

2011abc · 25-02-2018 11:19am

Kwitcher’ moanin’ !

liverpool lad · 25-02-2018 3:06pm

I still think the post in itself should be advertised - as simple as "ICT coordinator" - AP11 and then leave it at that. But not go into too much detail! I fear a lot of staff in our school won't go for any post

Mardy Bum · 25-02-2018 4:24pm

liverpool lad wrote: »

I still think the post in itself should be advertised - as simple as "ICT coordinator" - AP11 and then leave it at that. But not go into too much detail! I fear a lot of staff in our school won't go for any post

Of course they will. Don't let their talk put you off.

doc_17 · 27-02-2018 12:46pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

I think your lament rings true for most professions but in teaching career progression has been spat on -again and again. Look a B post gives you 2k a year after tax. Most teachers can earn that easily outside. Ie supervision,exam correction

Once you are over 5 years in a teaching job its hard to work 48 weeks of the year
Grass can be greener but if you are LPT it can be greener!

Exactly and maybe for a lot less hassle as well! €3500 is the gross for an AP 2 job. You'd get to keep 35-40% of it. So max €1500 per year or €30 per week.

doc_17 · 27-02-2018 12:48pm

liverpool lad wrote: »

I still think the post in itself should be advertised - as simple as "ICT coordinator" - AP11 and then leave it at that. But not go into too much detail! I fear a lot of staff in our school won't go for any post

Stay away from ICT Coordinator role!!!!

ASISEEIT · 27-02-2018 1:03pm

By September next year most posts should be filled-is that right? Does that mean for most failed candidates that their promotion prospects are effectively over? Bar the odd retirement?

ASISEEIT · 27-02-2018 1:06pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Exactly and maybe for a lot less hassle as well! €3500 is the gross for an AP 2 job. You'd get to keep 35-40% of it. So max €1500 per year or €30 per week.

To be fair I think an A post (AP 1) is probably worth your while. But I think a lot of teachers are looking beyond posts in their Schools. This post Tiger generation want Mgt jobs badly.

doc_17 · 27-02-2018 1:11pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

To be fair I think an A post (AP 1) is probably worth your while. But I think a lot of teachers are looking beyond posts in their Schools. This post Tiger generation want Mgt jobs badly.

Absolutely it would be worthwhile. Hard to get though.

Mardy Bum · 27-02-2018 9:24pm

ASISEEIT wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Exactly and maybe for a lot less hassle as well! €3500 is the gross for an AP 2 job. You'd get to keep 35-40% of it. So max €1500 per year or €30 per week.

To be fair I think an A post (AP 1) is probably worth your while. But I think a lot of teachers are looking beyond posts in their Schools. This post Tiger generation want Mgt jobs badly.

Depends on the school. Some schools because of legacy issues have A posts that are laughable. Others have a list of duties plus extra supervision.

feardeas · 27-02-2018 10:51pm

Mardy Bum wrote:

Depends on the school. Some schools because of legacy issues have A posts that are laughable. Others have a list of duties plus extra supervision.

If it is legacy the review should be able to deal with it surely.

Mardy Bum · 27-02-2018 11:31pm

feardeas wrote: »

Mardy Bum wrote:

Depends on the school. Some schools because of legacy issues have A posts that are laughable. Others have a list of duties plus extra supervision.

If it is legacy the review should be able to deal with it surely.

Try giving a group of people additional roles after a number of years and wait for their response. And they would be right to object.

judeboy101 · 27-02-2018 11:40pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

feardeas wrote: »

Mardy Bum wrote:

Depends on the school. Some schools because of legacy issues have A posts that are laughable. Others have a list of duties plus extra supervision.

If it is legacy the review should be able to deal with it surely.

Try giving a group of people additional roles after a number of years and wait for their response. And they would be right to object.

I thought that ultimately if a post holder refused to do their job it would be a disciplinary thing. Now my reading was that any change to your post was by review and "agreement" but that at the end of the day, if you dug in firm youd lose.

evolving_doors · 28-02-2018 8:47am

judeboy101 wrote: »

I thought that ultimately if a post holder refused to do their job it would be a disciplinary thing. Now my reading was that any change to your post was by review and "agreement" but that at the end of the day, if you dug in firm youd lose.

By 'agreement'.... hmm.

I remember the allocation of some croke park hours was also by 'agreement' with the staff. That worked out nice and consistent didn't it :pac:

ASISEEIT · 28-02-2018 1:33pm

A lot of people have been quite political the last few years. Done their courses. Done what the principal wanted. Lapped up latest propaganda from the department . To be fair to them thats the way in office/staff room politics. Its what have you done for me lately. Im doubtful without proper paid subject heads that any of these jobs will make any real difference to students or teachers in their classrooms.

ASISEEIT · 02-03-2018 6:29pm

For those of you in Community schools what has the experience been of posts by merit?

feardeas · 02-03-2018 8:54pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Try giving a group of people additional roles after a number of years and wait for their response. And they would be right to object.

I'd settle for them to actually do what they have been paid for a decade to do. Deeply frustrating looking at that nonsense for a decade let me tell you and I'm waiting to have the head bitten off me here by the usual

deiseindublin · 02-03-2018 9:05pm

Why post the usual inflammatory stuff so?

km79 · 02-03-2018 9:37pm

feardeas wrote: »

I'd settle for them to actually do what they have been paid for a decade to do. Deeply frustrating looking at that nonsense for a decade let me tell you and I'm waiting to have the head bitten off me here by the usual

I agree with your sentiments in principle ......

feardeas · 02-03-2018 10:21pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

Why post the usual inflammatory stuff so?

I hope you are not suggesting that I am usually inflammatory, I have not read any forum on this in ages and frankly I am a reasonable person and not willing to listen to that. AS for the comment I am merely stating what has been fact in my school for the last decade or so. That is inflammatory rather than stating it.

Apologies if I am being terse I think it is a mixture of cabin fever and annoyance at what I see locally which may not be an indication of the national picture at all.

ASISEEIT · 02-03-2018 10:22pm

feardeas wrote: »

I'd settle for them to actually do what they have been paid for a decade to do. Deeply frustrating looking at that nonsense for a decade let me tell you and I'm waiting to have the head bitten off me here by the usual

Can you clarify what you are going on about? Please

amacca · 03-03-2018 9:12am

feardeas wrote: »

Apologies if I am being terse I think it is a mixture of cabin fever and annoyance at what I see locally which may not be an indication of the national picture at all.

Its not an indication of the national picture at all imo ...going by the three schools I was involved with it in the past and I felt they were a fairly representative sample.

ASISEEIT · 03-03-2018 2:30pm

Sure there were post holders in the past and present who did SFA but their numbers must have diminished last 8 years. In my school most do a good bit of work but our numbers have been decimated (Post wise)

The new system still has the flaws of the older system in that once you get the post you can sit back and do SFA.
Merit me arse

How have people found this merit system in community schools??

dory · 07-03-2018 12:00am

judeboy101 wrote: »

I thought that ultimately if a post holder refused to do their job it would be a disciplinary thing. Now my reading was that any change to your post was by review and "agreement" but that at the end of the day, if you dug in firm youd lose.

Yes it has to be by agreement. They were asked in my school to take on additional duties but they did not agree. So now we have a situation where AP2's work their butts off and AP1s lounge around.

judeboy101 · 07-03-2018 7:40am

dory wrote: »

judeboy101 wrote: »

I thought that ultimately if a post holder refused to do their job it would be a disciplinary thing. Now my reading was that any change to your post was by review and "agreement" but that at the end of the day, if you dug in firm youd lose.

Yes it has to be by agreement. They were asked in my school to take on additional duties but they did not agree. So now we have a situation where AP2's work their butts off and AP1s lounge around.

Are u sure? Does the new circular not supercede previous circulars?

dory · 08-03-2018 5:22pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Are u sure? Does the new circular not supercede previous circulars?

Have you a link to that? People keep talking to me about 'the new circular' and I can't find it. It's probably on the main page of the Dep's website now...

The short answer is I'm not sure sure but I sort of sure.

Does anyone here have a sample of an application form for these new AP1/AP2 posts? I'd love to see what's involved out of interest.

ASISEEIT · 08-03-2018 6:31pm

dory wrote: »

Have you a link to that? People keep talking to me about 'the new circular' and I can't find it. It's probably on the main page of the Dep's website now...

The short answer is I'm not sure sure but I sort of sure.

Does anyone here have a sample of an application form for these new AP1/AP2 posts? I'd love to see what's involved out of interest.

Im 99% it says this circular supersedes all previous

ccazza · 08-03-2018 6:41pm

dory wrote: »

Have you a link to that? People keep talking to me about 'the new circular' and I can't find it. It's probably on the main page of the Dep's website now...

The short answer is I'm not sure sure but I sort of sure.

Does anyone here have a sample of an application form for these new AP1/AP2 posts? I'd love to see what's involved out of interest.

The link to the circular is in Post 1 of this thread.

Posts of Responsibilty

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