Posts of Responsibilty

ccazza

The circular for Post Primary schools has finally been published. https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0003_2018.pdfNot much of an alleviation.

Icsics

ccazza wrote: »

The circular for Post Primary schools has finally been published. https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0003_2018.pdfNot much of an alleviation.

It's not so much the alleviation thats interesting but the content of this circular & what will be in these posts. It's as if the JMB wrote the circular....!

feedthegoat

An extra 1300 posts, will make a positive impact in many schools.

evolving_doors

Icsics wrote: »

It's not so much the alleviation thats interesting but the content of this circular & what will be in these posts. It's as if the JMB wrote the circular....!

How do you mean?

evolving_doors

I wonder would a school release a teacher to take the post if there's no-one to replace them?

MrJones1973

The vast majority of teachers can do the vast majority of Jobs. Lots of opportunity for brown nosing and divisiveness. Work you did in the past might be disregarded in the Present if you have not kept up with your arse licking!

r93kaey5p2izun

God I dread the cutthroat backstabbing crap we will have to endure over the coming weeks. There won't be enough posts to cover all the people doing year head, TY coordinator, SEN coordinator etc unpaid in my school. And all but a handful have a Masters in management and leadership. It's going to be toxic.

MrJones1973

The old system had one benefit-most teachers eventually got a post usually in their 40s which meant posts turned over within 20 years. This new system means a teacher can lock down a post in their 20s or 30s. This being the public sector you will be stuck with them .
We all know management qualifications are useless in practical terms

MrJones1973

Merrick Prickly User wrote: »

God I dread the cutthroat backstabbing crap we will have to endure over the coming weeks. There won't be enough posts to cover all the people doing year head, TY coordinator, SEN coordinator etc unpaid in my school. And all but a handful have a Masters in management and leadership. It's going to be toxic.

Then perhaps its best to sit back and assume you will get nothing. Make your money elsewhere. If you get it great but no point building a mental torture chamber for yourself.

r93kaey5p2izun

MrJones1973 wrote: »

Then perhaps its best to sit back and assume you will get nothing. Make your money elsewhere. If you get it great but no point building a mental torture chamber for yourself.

I will be resigning my position and leaving teaching at the end of this year. I'm not interested in posts. It won't stop the escalation in people walking all over each other to get ahead before I leave though. It's not only those involved in the competition who have to put up with the fallout!

thefasteriwalk

Merrick Prickly User wrote: »

I will be resigning my position and leaving teaching at the end of this year. I'm not interested in posts. It won't stop the escalation in people walking all over each other to get ahead before I leave though. It's not only those involved in the competition who have to put up with the fallout!

Can I ask why? Are you just fed up? Sadly, I see myself taking this decision in the next few years too.

Does anyone know are the allowances for these new posts the same as for old A and B posts? I'm really hoping it doesn't cause any friction in my place. There certainly aren't enough to go around.

r93kaey5p2izun

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Can I ask why? Are you just fed up? Sadly, I see myself taking this decision in the next few years too.

Mostly for financial reasons. But also because I feel trapped in a school where I don't see any prospects for myself. And if I have to take a risk on starting from scratch in order to move on, then I feel I might as well give something with better financial potential a shot. I suppose I can always do some subbing if I have to anyway. But I just don't think teaching offers a sufficient standard of living in the Dublin area unless you can rely on a partner or family.

dory

Could anyone hazard a guess what the WTE (Whole Time/Teacher (?) Equivalent) for a school with 800 students would be? Just wondering roughly how many AP posts we should have.

km79

What does holding a POR allowance “on a personal basis “ mean ?
it appears a good few times in the circular

2011abc

‘Whole time equivalents ‘ means the number of teachers that would be in school if there were no part timers /job sharers etc .Its also the pupil teacher ratio divided into number of students in school. ( Principal and some other staff ‘ex quota’)

In a school of around 800 there would be around 6 or 7 A posts /Assistant Principals /AP1s certainly no more than 8

‘On a personal basis ‘ means having a post which could include principalship but due to circumstances like an amalgamation it’s now gone (but they’re still getting paid for it )

And I haven’t even done any aul Management Masters etc !

spurious

1300 posts is roughly 2 per school.
I know in my old school it would barely refill a third of the posts lost through retirement etc..

The spin is strong on this one.

2011abc

Yeah it’s some reflection on his we’ve been duped that giving back something they robbed from us is seen as Manna from heaven .

MrJones1973

spurious wrote: »

1300 posts is roughly 2 per school.
I know in my old school it would barely refill a third of the posts lost through retirement etc..

The spin is strong on this one.

Depending on age demographics it can be more than that. Our school had a lot of retirements last ten years. A lot of B post holders promoted and their posts disappeared. We are down to about 7 posts in total.Thus we are due for our size 700 -about 8 new posts.Other schools not hit so badly. The Ratio of posts to Teachers is proably lower than the boom overall under new criteria.

MrJones1973

Merrick Prickly User wrote: »

Mostly for financial reasons. But also because I feel trapped in a school where I don't see any prospects for myself. And if I have to take a risk on starting from scratch in order to move on, then I feel I might as well give something with better financial potential a shot. I suppose I can always do some subbing if I have to anyway. But I just don't think teaching offers a sufficient standard of living in the Dublin area unless you can rely on a partner or family.

I think this is sad that you have to leave but you are probably right. But its a problem that goes beyond teaching to most sectors. The bloody Government needs to build more houses by whatever means necessary. Vacant site levy doesnt come in until 2019?!

liverpool lad

How are schools dividing out the new POR's in your school? Are you having meetings or are there SIP posts being created?

Icsics

liverpool lad wrote: »

How are schools dividing out the new POR's in your school? Are you having meetings or are there SIP posts being created?

Has to be a review of all posts....interesting times ahead!

ASISEEIT

Schools have become all about PR and therapy. Its all about obesity week or literacy week Its all about dealing with the latest buzz whether its transgender or about helping kids do what they have done for a millennium ie begin first year. Its all PR

In the end has all this PR guff actually improved results? We all know ho chi quinn had his literacy bull-and lo and behold results improved before it had got off the ground (FACT)
Why because kids doing the exam after Quinn took power were told to take the exam seriously this time.

So scramble my darlings for these stipends. There is easier money elsewhere than selling your souls for the latest piece of PR
Bottom line is the teacher who works outside the classroom ,as opposed to inside the classroom will triumph

TheDriver

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Schools have become all about PR and therapy. Its all about obesity week or literacy week Its all about dealing with the latest buzz whether its transgender or about helping kids do what they have done for a millennium ie begin first year. Its all PR

In the end has all this PR guff actually improved results? We all know ho chi quinn had his literacy bull-and lo and behold results improved before it had got off the ground (FACT)
Why because kids doing the exam after Quinn took power were told to take the exam seriously this time.

So scramble my darlings for these stipends. There is easier money elsewhere than selling your souls for the latest piece of PR
Bottom line is the teacher who works outside the classroom ,as opposed to inside the classroom will triumph

Significant parts of issues that some of our students have to deal with are hardly buzz for PR. Education isn't just about results and we ignore all other parts of a child's education at our peril

ASISEEIT

We need year heads to deal with the significant issues. We also need guidance counsellors.
Most teachers are pretty descent to lending a sympathetic ear but we are not doctors or counsellors . A healthy eating week wont change anything. Its all feature article guff.
However there is an unrealistic streak of social engineering going on in dept of education. At present we have to teach kids how to eat ,avoid drugs and have safe sex. Im sure others could add ti the list. All of this assumes you as a teacher have it all together.
I.e you are a paragon of virtue
All of this assumes kids will listen and ignore the messages they get outside of school. One wonders what the hell their parents teach them. What society teaches them.
A lot of the plans drawn up in schools are booker prize entries and not worth the ink they are printed on. So we will no doubt employ a fiction author in a b post for planning
It would be better if posts were designed to support academic achievement rather than more dubious social engineering or PR weeks. Has there ever been any evaluation of these weeks ? Nada
Even when the department fixes on something tangible like literacy it gives no money for books?! George Orwell could not make this up. Kids need to read more pure and simple. Half the new JC curriculum English could be dumped, if they simply gave money for library books and insisted kids read them but hey thats common sense.

Wanderer78

ASISEEIT wrote:

We need year heads to deal with the significant issues. We also need guidance counsellors. However there is an unrealistic streak of social engineering going on in dept of education. At present we have to teach kids how to eat ,avoid drugs and have safe sex. Im sure others could add ti the list. All of this assumes you as a teacher have it all together. I.e you are a paragon of virtue All of this assumes kids will listen and ignore the messages they get outside of school. One wonders what the hell their parents teach them. What society teaches them. A lot of the plans drawn up in schools are booker prize entries and not worth the ink they are printed on. It would be better if posts were designed to support academic achievement rather than more dubious social engineering or PR weeks. Has there ever been any evaluation of these weeks ? Nada

There's a lot more to life than 'academic achievements', kids require support and guidance in life, amongst other things, including academic guidance, but not exclusively. There's too much academia in the world of academia, it's also important to note, some kids are simply not designed for it, and that's ok to, society still requires them, but an educational system that's heavily weighted towards the world of academia, can and does pose a problem for these individuals. We should be creating a system that includes rather than excludes, society requires all to function better, excluding creates dysfunction in society, inclusion reduces dysfunction.

Many parents are in fact highly stressed due to the failures of modern society, including the need for both to work full time etc, our educational system addresses these issues badly, and in some cases not at all, and we wonder why complex social issues occur, and indeed why complex problems such as mental health issues are increasing!

judeboy101

What's the union stance on existing posts being converted to these new ones. My reading of it is that if you have been hired as a year head, then under the new circular your post can be taken from you and you could end up for example as IT, haven't never turned on a computer in your life. I know that in extremis but nothing in circular says that it can't happen as all posts are now competency based not skill based.

ASISEEIT

Wanderer78 wrote: »

There's a lot more to life than 'academic achievements', kids require support and guidance in life, amongst other things, including academic guidance, but not exclusively. There's too much academia in the world of academia, it's also important to note, some kids are simply not designed for it, and that's ok to, society still requires them, but an educational system that's heavily weighted towards the world of academia, can and does pose a problem for these individuals. We should be creating a system that includes rather than excludes, society requires all to function better, excluding creates dysfunction in society, inclusion reduces dysfunction.

Many parents are in fact highly stressed due to the failures of modern society, including the need for both to work full time etc, our educational system addresses these issues badly, and in some cases not at all, and we wonder why complex social issues occur, and indeed why complex problems such as mental health issues are increasing!

I agree academic achievement is not everything in life. A huge amount has been pumped into resource and SNAs. There is a problem with kids who are destined for trades or other careers being forced to sit a leaving cert that really doesnt suit them. We send more kids to college than Germany and many drop out. I never said non academic kids should be ignored but there is a huge middle ground not achieving their potential for various reasons
Their standards are falling and how do we respond -lowering the bar.
There is no evidence that all this social engineering actually works? Can you point to one-just one study that shows this in Ireland? A lot of the material we are forced to pedal is easily accessed by parents online.
The education system is not responsible for the social ills of society. The binge drinking, eating disorders and other mental health issues. Lets not pretend we are che Guevara. We aint social workers or counselors
Kids reaching their full academic potential(even if thats a D) is important for their mental and social health. We need properly funded mental health services for kids not a chapter or two in the SPHE book. We need proper truancy laws and personnel.
We should be evaluating these school social programmes rather than wheeling out yet another tick the box subject. Society needs to get its arse out of box sets,pubs and facebook and faceup to its responsibilities rather than continually passing the buck

TheDriver

judeboy101 wrote: »

What's the union stance on existing posts being converted to these new ones. My reading of it is that if you have been hired as a year head, then under the new circular your post can be taken from you and you could end up for example as IT, haven't never turned on a computer in your life. I know that in extremis but nothing in circular says that it can't happen as all posts are now competency based not skill based.

A school review of posts has always been an option and goes on in most schools.

doc_17

Best practice apparently means that your post wouldn’t be the same for 20/30 years. Otherwise capacity is lost when that person retires.

judeboy101

TheDriver wrote: »

judeboy101 wrote: »

What's the union stance on existing posts being converted to these new ones. My reading of it is that if you have been hired as a year head, then under the new circular your post can be taken from you and you could end up for example as IT, haven't never turned on a computer in your life. I know that in extremis but nothing in circular says that it can't happen as all posts are now competency based not skill based.

A school review of posts has always been an option and goes on in most schools.

But the circular states all posts are competency based, so what's stopping a person who interviewed for a year heads post been told they will now be spending their summer cutting the school pitch?

ethical

Dress it up whatever way you like,it will be still as fcukin corrupt as it has always been.Jobs for the boy,but less work being done,newer,less stable job teachers worked to the bone with feck all follow up support doing more work as well as teaching their classes!