Aziz Ansari - sexual assault or unwarranted assault on reputation

anewme

anewme wrote: »

You are getting mixed up. I’m referring to Poo Poo response to buttons couple of posts above who has a friend interacting with a pushy guy and he is saying the pushy guy is should be warned that the girl is a freak.

Ok. thanks.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

You have got to be ****ting me. You started your focus on the man from the beginning and we responded to your decision to focus entirely on him. You absolved the woman of all responsibility for the situation, going so far as to introduce rape, and then to move to sexual assault.

Well of course. Like I've long contended the modern "feminist" and now generally accepted narrative around the genders comes down to women are delicate creatures with no agency and always the victim and men are always to blame and always have agency and responsibility for themselves and women. Irony of ironies that this notion would find much favour with a chauvinist Victorian...

Internal feminism documentary uncovered.

Silentcorner wrote: »

She never had control....is the point, just like all the women who are raped by people they know....

She had control enough to go on the date, control to go back to his gaff after the apparent red flags on said date, control enough to genuflect to his genitals and have him do similar to her. Please pray tell, where did she lose control? Where was her duty and responsibility of care for herself? Unless you consider her to have the mind of child and therefore not responsible on the lines of undeveloped mental capacity? Sure sounds like that. And you'd not be alone and why this trend really pisses me off. I see women the same as men and hold both to the same responsibilities and agency. Apparently that's wrong these days.

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is not a social media post, it was published by a company, it has been published at this stage by a heap of other media companies, all of who can be sued, all of whom could have been subjected to injunctions...

Ansari, and his legal team, have chosen not to respond...

How can he respond? Even if it was a total fabrication any response in this current "gender war" bullsh1t would be seen as false.

In my opinion, based on that account, it was a prolonged sexual assault...one that would be very hard to prove in a court of law, but an assault nonetheless...

The underlined sums it up. It's conjecture, it's opinion, it'll run to feels soon enough, like the rest of the well meaning but becoming ever more hysterical nonsense around the metoo hashtag.

I am, I see in the minority...

I genuinely hope that you are TBH SC, because more and more on this subject I'm reminded of this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyFwTjfDU

Silentcorner wrote: »

I can see now why women are so slow to report, what they believe to be sexual assault or rape....very sad

Believe. Personal belief doesn't make it true. Only mob rule thinks like this. Never mind that this constant crying wolf will... well you know how that tale ends.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

What Bind? You don't actually put one in your response...



She had a bad experience prolonged by her inability to say no, or stop.



Because unfortunately, when people consider claims of assault or rape, they're a lot like you. They jump to conclusions regardless of what is actually reported. Her own article states how indecisive she was. The article states that he stopped when she told him to. But people like yourself, will cry RAPE! regardless of what he says on the matter.

You really think his career would survive the gossip magazines? A career that relies on his public image?



You have got to be ****ting me. You started your focus on the man from the beginning and we responded to your decision to focus entirely on him. You absolved the woman of all responsibility for the situation, going so far as to introduce rape, and then to move to sexual assault.

If/when I mentioned rape, I was wrong, there was no rape here.

There was a sexual assault ( Sexual assault is an act in which a person sexually touches another person without that person's consent, or coerces or physically forces a person to engage in a sexual act against their will)

Not saying no is not giving consent.
Going back to someone's house is not consent.

Should she have got up and left, of course.
Should she have taken control of the situation when it became uncomfortable for her, of course...

I am clearly not "looking for support"...I have recognised I am in the minority...I don't give a monkeys if everyone disagrees with me...

What was the clincher for me, in forming my opinion that a sexual assault took place, was when she refused to grab his c##k, after 5-7 attempts .... in the context of what went before and after it, in my opinion it was a prolonged attack...

It does not matter what else the circumstances in that situation, forcing a reluctant woman to grab your c##k is a sexual assault....it is a lot more serious than "acting like a dickhead"... if we can't agree that then i'm happy to be in the minority...

Barncom

Silentcorner wrote: »

If/when I mentioned rape, I was wrong, there was no rape here.

There was a sexual assault ( Sexual assault is an act in which a person sexually touches another person without that person's consent, or coerces or physically forces a person to engage in a sexual act against their will)

Not saying no is not giving consent.
Going back to someone's house is not consent.

Should she have got up and left, of course.
Should she have taken control of the situation when it became uncomfortable for her, of course...

I am clearly not "looking for support"...I have recognised I am in the minority...I don't give a monkeys if everyone disagrees with me...

What was the clincher for me, in forming my opinion that a sexual assault took place, was when she refused to grab his c##k, after 5-7 attempts .... in the context of what went before and after it, in my opinion it was a prolonged attack...

It does not matter what else the circumstances in that situation, forcing a reluctant woman to grab your c##k is a sexual assault....it is a lot more serious than "acting like a dickhead"... if we can't agree that then i'm happy to be in the minority...

Forcing someone to grab your cock is sexual assault, asking repeatedly until getting a yes Is different, definitely a dickhead move, but not sure I'd put that in the category if sexual assault if she said yes.

anewme

Barncom wrote: »

The respect I give a particular individual is not based on their gender.

Ultimately though if a woman wants to have sex with me, she needs to demonstrate to me that their is something special about her that makes her worthy of my cock This simple belief makes me irresistable to many women, .

Maybe start by respecting yourself and notcoming across like a badly translated 1970,s dubbed porno script.


Anyone who says people need to be worth of their cock are the types who get up early at weekends and post about chore sex.

Maybe a lie in and a fry might bring you back to the real world.

Sardonicat

Barncom wrote: »

Ultimately though if a woman wants to have sex with me, she needs to demonstrate to me that their is something special about her that makes her worthy of my cock

I just threw up a bit into my mouth.

anewme

I can imagine that said by a German porno actor in broken English with knee socks and a 1970’s Peter Shilton perm.

Silentcorner

Barncom wrote: »

Forcing someone to grab your cock is sexual assault, asking repeatedly until getting a yes Is different, definitely a dickhead move, but not sure I'd put that in the category if sexual assault if she said yes.

According to her account, she didn't say yes, nor did she grab his c##k...despite 5 to 7 attempts....I really don't know what to say....

Silentcorner

Wibbs wrote: »

Well of course. Like I've long contended the modern "feminist" and now generally accepted narrative around the genders comes down to women are delicate creatures with no agency and always the victim and men are always to blame and always have agency and responsibility for themselves and women. Irony of ironies that this notion would find much favour with a chauvinist Victorian...

Internal feminism documentary uncovered.


She had control enough to go on the date, control to go back to his gaff after the apparent red flags on said date, control enough to genuflect to his genitals and have him do similar to her. Please pray tell, where did she lose control? Where was her duty and responsibility of care for herself? Unless you consider her to have the mind of child and therefore not responsible on the lines of undeveloped mental capacity? Sure sounds like that. And you'd not be alone and why this trend really pisses me off. I see women the same as men and hold both to the same responsibilities and agency. Apparently that's wrong these days.

How can he respond? Even if it was a total fabrication any response in this current "gender war" bullsh1t would be seen as false.

The underlined sums it up. It's conjecture, it's opinion, it'll run to feels soon enough, like the rest of the well meaning but becoming ever more hysterical nonsense around the metoo hashtag.

I genuinely hope that you are TBH SC, because more and more on this subject I'm reminded of this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyFwTjfDU

Believe. Personal belief doesn't make it true. Only mob rule thinks like this. Never mind that this constant crying wolf will... well you know how that tale ends.

No personal belief does not make it true...but it is the starting point to a police report or making contact with a Rape Crisis centre or making a public statement about the incident (as in this case)....if you don't believe you have been assaulted then there is no issue....

I am not going to retort to any of those videos...I am fighting a losing battle on here, the mob has spoken it seems!!!

anewme

Silentcorner wrote: »

According to her account, she didn't say yes, nor did she grab his c##k...despite 5 to 7 attempts....I really don't know what to say....

Anyone who thinks that women need to demonstrate that they are worthy Of his cock can’t actually be real and don’t waste your time debating with.

poo poo

Careful Now,

Down with that sort of thing!

Mokuba

It's like women don't want to feel left out at this point so they warp the most trivial situations and present them as sexual assault.

Like that James Franco one where his girlfriend gave him a blowjob in a car but felt a power imbalance or similar tripe. #MeToo #IWantToBeIncluded

Regret is not rape.

Women say they want equality? Well they have gone so far ahead that it would take men decades to catch up. Automatic belief upon making life ruining accusation without proof or due process for the accused? It's a tremendously worrying amount of power for an entire sex to have.

Oh you don't believe women? Misogynist! Women Hater! Victim Blame! Slut Shame!

Loads of little buzz words that women can use to completely derail a rational discussion or argument on the topic whenever they want.

Just have to steer well clear of anyone who buys into this ridiculous witch hunt that is going on. Because at this rate if you had sex with a woman 5 years ago, and you put on a bit of weight since or something - she might look at pictures of you now and decide she wished she hadn't done that. And you know where that is leading in the current climate.

professore

Barncom wrote: »

professore wrote: »

He was horrible to her from the get go. Yet she still went with him back to his apartment and blew him. If he had have been polite and a gentleman with her he would have got nowhere. That's what confuses the hell out of a lot of normal decent men, and makes them question why they should respect women when that often leads to them seeing you as a "nice guy"

The focus is not on him because men know guys like this that they dislike, or they are one themselves.

And let's be honest, he was famous and she was a nobody, and he sent her sexual texts all week. What did she expect? She didn't "know" him, she was one of a thousand interchangeable groupies to him.

It depends what you mean by "respecting women". To some mean that means putting their needs before their own, in my view that is pathetic.

The respect I give a particular individual is not based on their gender. I the level of respect I have for each individual differs on a case by case basis and is subject to change as more information comes to light.

Ultimately though if a woman wants to have sex with me, she needs to demonstrate to me that their is something special about her that makes her worthy of my cock This simple belief makes me irresistable to many women, because they have to impress me in contrast to the legions of men trying to impress her at the expense of their authenticity and integrity. They lose respect for such men.

"respecting women" means not trying to ride them as quickly as possible and move on to the next one whether they want to or not.

professore

Deleted User wrote: »

Barncom wrote: »

Ultimately though if a woman wants to have sex with me, she needs to demonstrate to me that their is something special about her that makes her worthy of my cock

Oh Lord. Genuinely feel the urge to upchuck. :rolleyes:

I can only hope he is speaking metaphorically.

professore

professore wrote: »

"respecting women" means not trying to ride them as quickly as possible and move on to the next one whether they want to or not.

What if it's they who want you to move on to the next one asap?

professore

Silentcorner wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What Bind? You don't actually put one in your response...



She had a bad experience prolonged by her inability to say no, or stop.



Because unfortunately, when people consider claims of assault or rape, they're a lot like you. They jump to conclusions regardless of what is actually reported. Her own article states how indecisive she was. The article states that he stopped when she told him to. But people like yourself, will cry RAPE! regardless of what he says on the matter.

You really think his career would survive the gossip magazines? A career that relies on his public image?



You have got to be ****ting me. You started your focus on the man from the beginning and we responded to your decision to focus entirely on him. You absolved the woman of all responsibility for the situation, going so far as to introduce rape, and then to move to sexual assault.

If/when I mentioned rape, I was wrong, there was no rape here.

There was a sexual assault ( Sexual assault is an act in which a person sexually touches another person without that person's consent, or coerces or physically forces a person to engage in a sexual act against their will)

Not saying no is not giving consent.
Going back to someone's house is not consent.

Should she have got up and left, of course.
Should she have taken control of the situation when it became uncomfortable for her, of course...

I am clearly not "looking for support"...I have recognised I am in the minority...I don't give a monkeys if everyone disagrees with me...

What was the clincher for me, in forming my opinion that a sexual assault took place, was when she refused to grab his c##k, after 5-7 attempts .... in the context of what went before and after it, in my opinion it was a prolonged attack...

It does not matter what else the circumstances in that situation, forcing a reluctant woman to grab your c##k is a sexual assault....it is a lot more serious than "acting like a dickhead"... if we can't agree that then i'm happy to be in the minority...

I agree with you.

professore

Deleted User wrote: »

professore wrote: »

"respecting women" means not trying to ride them as quickly as possible and move on to the next one whether they want to or not.

What if it's they who want you to move on to the next one asap?

Well then I'd have no issue with that. Just as I'd have no issue moving on to the next one if that's what she wanted too. She would need to show some enthusiasm though.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

If/when I mentioned rape, I was wrong, there was no rape here.

Woot! Progress. Now to squash this crazy idea of assault.

There was a sexual assault ( Sexual assault is an act in which a person sexually touches another person without that person's consent, or coerces or physically forces a person to engage in a sexual act against their will)

Going back to his home after a date during which flirting occurs, combined with kissing, touching, and oral sex, is a pretty strong indication of consent.

What? You expect him to formally ask for consent? Which would, of course, be going against the experience of most people who end up in the persons home after the first date. Have you ever had an ONS? Did you arrange formal consent of sex first, or did it just kinda happen because you both wanted it to happen?

Consent was implied. Until she withdrew that consent. And when she withdrew the consent, he stopped.

I am clearly not "looking for support"...I have recognised I am in the minority...I don't give a monkeys if everyone disagrees with me...

And yet you're campaigning all the same... by introducing first rape and then sexual assault into the situation.

What was the clincher for me, in forming my opinion that a sexual assault took place, was when she refused to grab his c##k, after 5-7 attempts .... in the context of what went before and after it, in my opinion it was a prolonged attack...

She didn't refuse to touch his cock. She moved her hand away each time (and no idea of how long she touched it before moving away). There is no mention of her telling him that she didn't want to touch it. According to the article.

I do wonder though the extent of the foreplay that occurred. She mentions oral sex for both him and her, both rather short in duration. What doesn't she mention?

It does not matter what else the circumstances in that situation, forcing a reluctant woman to grab your c##k is a sexual assault....it is a lot more serious than "acting like a dickhead"... if we can't agree that then i'm happy to be in the minority...

Forcing? he put her hand on his cock a number of times. Did he grab her hand and hold it there? No mention of that.

Fact is... In spite of her protests about what he apparently encouraged her to do to him, at no stage is there any reference to him assaulting her in any way. No sign of him verbally or physically abusing her to get her to do anything. In fact, the moment she said no to something, he stopped and suggested that they talk about it.

The issue I have here is that she didn't feel the need to refuse to have foreplay with him. She didn't stop him from undressing both of them. They weren't drunk or on drugs. There wasn't any coercion or threat of violence involved. And yet, you believe that he is guilty of sexual assault, and she is innocent.

To be perfectly honest, considering the way she set him up, someone could easily argue entrapment here.

anewme

professore wrote: »

I agree with you.

But did he force her to grab his cock?

I can’t see where he did.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

I am fighting a losing battle on here, the mob has spoken it seems!!!

Ahh.. So, if people don't agree with you, then they must be a group of the lower classes of a community? :rolleyes:

This really does explain a lot about your mindset.

Wibbs

Silentcorner wrote: »

No personal belief does not make it true...but it is the starting point to a police report or making contact with a Rape Crisis centre or making a public statement about the incident (as in this case)

Me? I tend to view this kinda case as highly dubious. If someone goes to the media, social or traditional, rather than the authorities, my goto thought is "BS.

....if you don't believe you have been assaulted then there is no issue....

One might think that and one would be pretty sure of that. However that "1 in 4" stat we hear so much of? That first came to light in the 80's Koss study into sexual relations in US universities. And the researcher(and I use the term with some doubt) came to that since repeated figure even though over half of women polled didn't believe they were assaulted and the majority were still with their "rapists".

I am not going to retort to any of those videos...I am fighting a losing battle on here, the mob has spoken it seems!!!

Eh... Irony?

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh.. So, if people don't agree with you, then they must be a group of the lower classes of a community? :rolleyes:

This really does explain a lot about your mindset.

Eh...I was previously accused of mob rule...you are getting a little personal at this stage....

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

She had control enough to go on the date, control to go back to his gaff after the apparent red flags on said date, control enough to genuflect to his genitals and have him do similar to her. Please pray tell, where did she lose control? Where was her duty and responsibility of care for herself? Unless you consider her to have the mind of child and therefore not responsible on the lines of undeveloped mental capacity? Sure sounds like that. And you'd not be alone and why this trend really pisses me off. I see women the same as men and hold both to the same responsibilities and agency. Apparently that's wrong these days.

And she told all that. To her credit she's provided a lot of detail, including a lot that exposes her to criticism. It's not some simplistic "he sexually assaulted me", it's a "here's what happened, I think he sexually assaulted me". I'm not sure she's right at all, but if what she says is accurate, he's at least a little creepy.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

Woot! Progress. Now to squash this crazy idea of assault.



Going back to his home after a date during which flirting occurs, combined with kissing, touching, and oral sex, is a pretty strong indication of consent.

What? You expect him to formally ask for consent? Which would, of course, be going against the experience of most people who end up in the persons home after the first date. Have you ever had an ONS? Did you arrange formal consent of sex first, or did it just kinda happen because you both wanted it to happen?

Consent was implied. Until she withdrew that consent. And when she withdrew the consent, he stopped.



And yet you're campaigning all the same... by introducing first rape and then sexual assault into the situation.



She didn't refuse to touch his cock. She moved her hand away each time (and no idea of how long she touched it before moving away). There is no mention of her telling him that she didn't want to touch it. According to the article.

I do wonder though the extent of the foreplay that occurred. She mentions oral sex for both him and her, both rather short in duration. What doesn't she mention?



Forcing? he put her hand on his cock a number of times. Did he grab her hand and hold it there? No mention of that.

Fact is... In spite of her protests about what he apparently encouraged her to do to him, at no stage is there any reference to him assaulting her in any way. No sign of him verbally or physically abusing her to get her to do anything. In fact, the moment she said no to something, he stopped and suggested that they talk about it.

The issue I have here is that she didn't feel the need to refuse to have foreplay with him. She didn't stop him from undressing both of them. They weren't drunk or on drugs. There wasn't any coercion or threat of violence involved. And yet, you believe that he is guilty of sexual assault, and she is innocent.

To be perfectly honest, considering the way she set him up, someone could easily argue entrapment here.

In fact, I have looked back at all my posts in this thread, I have not mentioned Rape in this case in any way shape or form (I did refer to rape in a different context completely)....I have persistently called it a prolonged sexual assault....



He forced her hand onto his c##k on between 5-7 occasions....that is sexual assault...

I don't know what to say...feel free to doubt the accuracy of what she outlined, feel free to sling insults at me....but if you do not thing that forcing a woman's hand on your cock is not an assault then we will just be going around in circles....

the_pen_turner

Silentcorner wrote: »

In fact, I have looked back at all my posts in this thread, I have not mentioned Rape in this case in any way shape or form (I did refer to rape in a different context completely)....I have persistently called it a prolonged sexual assault....



He forced her hand onto his c##k on between 5-7 occasions....that is sexual assault...

I don't know what to say...feel free to doubt the accuracy of what she outlined, feel free to sling insults at me....but if you do not thing that forcing a woman's hand on your cock is not an assault then we will just be going around in circles....

if that was a singular event then I would agree with you but this happened while she was kissing him. its more of a grey area in that case

professore

Let's just say it's not credible that she put her hand willingly on his cock 5-7 times and then was horrified to find it there.

Will I Am Not

Barncom wrote: »

Ultimately though if a woman wants to have sex with me, she needs to demonstrate to me that their is something special about her that makes her worthy of my cock This simple belief makes me irresistable to many women, because they have to impress me in contrast to the legions of men trying to impress her at the expense of their authenticity and integrity. They lose respect for such men.

Spoken like a true virgin.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

And she told all that. To her credit she's provided a lot of detail, including a lot that exposes her to criticism. It's not some simplistic "he sexually assaulted me", it's a "here's what happened, I think he sexually assaulted me". I'm not sure she's right at all, but if what she says is accurate, he's at least a little creepy.

Consider the way she describes his behavior when they got into his apartment. He sounds like a virgin or someone with extremely little experience of sex or women. Bad foreplay, constantly asking what position she would like to start sex in?

However, we're talking about a fairly established young comedian. He's not ugly, fat, or old. He's had previous relationships. Do you really think this guy would really be the bumbling idiot creep she describes?

It's just so... odd.

Snake Plisken

Oh dear! Aziz, another self proclaimed Male feminist turns out to be a bit of a sexual predator, if the story is true!

Silentcorner

Wibbs wrote: »

Me? I tend to view this kinda case as highly dubious. If someone goes to the media, social or traditional, rather than the authorities, my goto thought is "BS.

One might think that and one would be pretty sure of that. However that "1 in 4" stat we hear so much of? That first came to light in the 80's Koss study into sexual relations in US universities. And the researcher(and I use the term with some doubt) came to that since repeated figure even though over half of women polled didn't believe they were assaulted and the majority were still with their "rapists".

Eh... Irony?

I can actually understand why a woman in this position wouldn't go to the police...for a start it is a humiliating process for the victim, she is on trial as much as he is...he is a very wealthy man no doubt has a legal team that reflects that wealth....there is no physical evidence it is one persons word over someone more powerful, wealthy...

I don't know how that study relates to what we are discussing here...for now in this case, we have only one side, Ansari has refused to comment or explain the incident...

I must be a mob of one, one this thread anyway...I have been accused of mob rule on three occasions...irony indeed!