Aziz Ansari - sexual assault or unwarranted assault on reputation

givyjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you please stop using the word "obtrusive"?

But this guy is only 'new'.. give him a break :pac::p

Pac1Man

US news anchor defending Aziz. I think this is the viewpoint any rational person will take. You will always have your extremists blinded by their own crusade regardless of any evidence or context.


“You had a bad date. Your date got overly amorous,” Banfield argued. “After protesting his moves, you did not get up and leave. You continued to engage in the sexual encounter.”

“So what exactly is your beef?” the host asked. “That you had a bad date with Aziz Ansari? Is that what victimised you to the point of seeking a public conviction? And a career-ending sentence against him? Is that truly what you thought he deserved for your night out?”

“All the [#metoo] gains that have been achieved on your behalf and mine are now being compromised by allegations that are reckless and hollow,”

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/nme/news/tv/news-anchor-condemns-aziz-ansari-accuser-live-air-2220137%3fsource=dam#ampshare=http://www.nme.com/news/tv/news-anchor-condemns-aziz-ansari-accuser-live-air-2220137

bnt

Are we now living in a world in which everyone has to manage every human interaction perfectly, or else? The guy screwed up - but so did the girl. Her description of her own behaviour betrayed a chronic lack of the kind of sense a woman should have when meeting a strange new guy. There are lessons to be learned all around. I don't think I've personally gotten it that wrong before, but it's not beyond the realm of plausibility to think that I could on a bad day.

If we hear multiple reports of a pattern of behaviour from Ansari, then I'll be a bit more concerned, but for the moment, it's a non-story. This piece in The Atlantic does a good job of summarising the issues:

Was Grace frozen, terrified, stuck? No. She tells us that she wanted something from Ansari and that she was trying to figure out how to get it. She wanted affection, kindness, attention. Perhaps she hoped to maybe even become the famous man’s girlfriend. He wasn’t interested. What she felt afterward—rejected yet another time, by yet another man—was regret. And what she and the writer who told her story created was 3,000 words of revenge porn. The clinical detail in which the story is told is intended not to validate her account as much as it is to hurt and humiliate Ansari. Together, the two women may have destroyed Ansari’s career, which is now the punishment for every kind of male sexual misconduct, from the grotesque to the disappointing.

suicide_circus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4bAULTwAJU

RacoonQueen

Deleted User wrote: »

Could you expand on that? Irish men don't ask women out?

I returned to Ireland about 6 months ago. Most of my adult dating experience is of UK/Italy/Spain, Eastern Europe, and Asia.

In my experience, Irish men aren't very good at asking women out or expressing their interest in a non-alcohol centered environment.
In my experience, Irish men are not great at accepting advances / interest from women even when even the dog can tell he is interested in her
Irish people get embarrassed when someone pays them a compliment. We're an odd bunch.
Dating in Ireland is hard. Have dated English and Scandinavian men and they're a lot more straight forward from the off (declaring interest clearly)

Have no experience of internet / tinder etc where obviously people ask each other out / accept advances etc but I'm talking about real life, face to face stuff here.

RoboRat

Lets change the scenario and see how it sounds...

I went to a dress shop, I was interested in a dress but not sure whether I was going to buy it.

When I got there, they gave me a cappuccino, they didn't ask if I wanted a coffee or tea.

I tried on the dress, I wasn't happy with it. The sales person was pushy and kept doing the hard sell. I mumbled that I wasn't interested but every time I took it off, they brought me something different. I didn't leave the shop or tell them I wasn't interested.

I didn't like any of the dresses but I didn't leave the store. Instead I kept moving to other parts of the store and sending signals that I wasn't interested. They kept trying to sell me that dress even though I had non verbally signaled that I wasn't interested. When I moved to another part of the store, they would come over and try a different tact, I still didn't leave the store.

I finally decided that I would leave and they called me a taxi. I left the store feeling abused. On my way home, I told my friends and they all agreed that it was inappropriate and that I was retail violated.

I then set about to make sure that nobody would ever shop at the store again.

givyjoe

RoboRat wrote: »

Lets change the scenario and see how it sounds...

I went to a dress shop, I was interested in a dress but not sure whether I was going to buy it.

When I got there, they gave me a cappuccino, they didn't ask if I wanted a coffee or tea.

I tried on the dress, I wasn't happy with it. The sales person was pushy and kept doing the hard sell. I mumbled that I wasn't interested but every time I took it off, they brought me something different. I didn't leave the shop or tell them I wasn't interested.

I didn't like any of the dresses but I didn't leave the store. Instead I kept moving to other parts of the store and sending signals that I wasn't interested. They kept trying to sell me that dress even though I had non verbally signaled that I wasn't interested. When I moved to another part of the store, they would come over and try a different tact, I still didn't leave the store.

I finally decided that I would leave and they called me a taxi. I left the store feeling abused. On my way home, I told my friends and they all agreed that it was inappropriate and that I was retail violated.

I then set about to make sure that nobody would ever shop at the store again.

Sounds... ridiculous.

RacoonQueen

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Dating in Ireland is hard. Have dated English and Scandinavian men and they're a lot more straight forward from the off (declaring interest clearly)

I appreciate your views. I honestly don't know what dating is like in Ireland now. I've dated a few women since I returned but honestly, none of them were very interesting, and they seemed more inclined towards the casual than an actual relationship.

TBH I always consider dating in Ireland to be much harder than anywhere else I've been.

Have no experience of internet / tinder etc where obviously people ask each other out / accept advances etc but I'm talking about real life, face to face stuff here.

I get that. I've done the internet stuff a little but I didn't like it. Too much focus on ons and far too much fake information/photos.

I'm much more into meeting someone face to face, establishing interest, taking the dating relatively slowly, etc. Oh, I've done the casual dating and sex with strangers gig but I'm well over it now. Far too shallow and meaningless. Starting to feel my age.

weldoninhio

kylith wrote: »

You can perform oral sex on someone and decide you don't want to go any further. You can perform oral sex on someone and decide you don't want to do it again. You can be in the act of performing oral sex on someone and decide you want to stop now. Them same applies when they are performing oral sex on you; you do not have to let them continue, do it again, or take it further.

Isn't that exactly what happened?? When it went further she said No and he stopped.

Triceratops Ballet

kaymin wrote: »

It's hard to give an example other than pushing the boundaries beyond what the girl had indicated she is up for. Traditionally girls would not be forward about what they want, it doesn't mean they don't want it. So guys have to explore that a little. Half the fun is the chase. If everyone was to live by kylith rules then it just becomes sterile.

I disagree, you can still flirt and enjoy the chase while respecting someones boundaries, if I told a guy to stop or slow down, or even tried to push him off or away from me and he didn't stop, any chance he had of getting any further with me willingly participating would evaporate then and there. Like I know my own damn mind, I know what I want and what I don't want

Traditionally girls would not be forward about what they want, it doesn't mean they don't want it.

This sentence is bizarre, there's not being forward and then theres objecting, they're different things. It's not up to men to decide what boundaries get pushed. "oh she was pushing me away but I could tell she wanted it" WTF?

weldoninhio

kylith wrote: »

‘Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?’”.

What did she answer to that??

Will I Am Not

weldoninhio wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what happened?? When it went further she said No and he stopped.

Don’t mind the real story. The only story that matters is the one where the man looks like a rapey scumbag.

kaymin

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I disagree, you can still flirt and enjoy the chase while respecting someones boundaries, if I told a guy to stop or slow down, or even tried to push him off or away from me and he didn't stop, any chance he had of getting any further with me willingly participating would evaporate then and there. Like I know my own damn mind, I know what I want and what I don't want


This sentence is bizarre, there's not being forward and then theres objecting, they're different things. It's not up to men to decide what boundaries get pushed. "oh she was pushing me away but I could tell she wanted it" WTF?

I'm not saying you don't know what you want. I'm saying women can be coy about what they want which leaves men exploring what the boundaries are.

Anyway I'm out of this discussion.

Wibbs

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4bAULTwAJU

Fair bloody play to her! Right on the money.

kylith

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe this isn't an Irish thing, but I've known quite a few women who loved to play games with the heads with the guy(s) approaching them. Some were tests (to raise/lower their opinion), whilst others were just mean little gestures. There are also women who will 'encourage' the guy just enough to keep him interested, with him buying gifts or offering dates, but she doesn't commit to anything.

Ever think that not playing into those games would get those women to stop playing them?

kylith

kylith wrote: »

Ever think that not playing into those games would get those women to stop playing them?

I think you missed that I don't play those games. I experienced them in the past, and I have little patience for them now.

I suspect you think the whole world is like Ireland/UK. It's not. The manner in which people engage in dating, relationships, etc are often very different depending on the culture, and perhaps more importantly, whether you're in a major city or a small town. I've spent most of my last decade living in large cities, and you meet a much larger variety of personality "types".

Lastly... In my experience, women behave the way they wish to behave regardless of the men they encounter. Some women are not good people. It happens. There are some who will lie, date multiple guys at the same time, cheat on you, etc. Just like there are some men that behave the same. [equality, yay!] Additionally, there are many women who will seek to manipulate by crying, creating problems, playing the victim, etc. to get what they want (whatever that happens to be).

Do a search on google about the mind games that women play while dating, or in relationships. You'll find it's fairly common. (Men do them too, btw).

RoboRat

kylith wrote: »

Ever think that not playing into those games would get those women to stop playing them?

I had an ex, loved to play games. Would go off the deep end about the smallest things, flirt with other guys, be constantly requiring my attention and looking for validation of my love through gifts, dinners etc.

I dumped her and swore I would never go near a woman like her. I am with my wife 14 years now, happily married with 2 beautiful kids. my ex is divorced and single.

If a woman or man wants to play games, steer well clear as they have their own personal issues.

The Legend Of Kira

One feminist magazine has written an opinion column that what Azir is reported to have done on the date is " sexual assault " & " rape " his name is being further dragged through the mud over an anonymous woman some people are believing her every word.

https://wearyourvoicemag.com/rape-culture/aziz-ansari-coercion-is-not-consent

lawred2

RoboRat wrote: »

Lets change the scenario and see how it sounds...

I went to a dress shop, I was interested in a dress but not sure whether I was going to buy it.

When I got there, they gave me a cappuccino, they didn't ask if I wanted a coffee or tea.

I tried on the dress, I wasn't happy with it. The sales person was pushy and kept doing the hard sell. I mumbled that I wasn't interested but every time I took it off, they brought me something different. I didn't leave the shop or tell them I wasn't interested.

I didn't like any of the dresses but I didn't leave the store. Instead I kept moving to other parts of the store and sending signals that I wasn't interested. They kept trying to sell me that dress even though I had non verbally signaled that I wasn't interested. When I moved to another part of the store, they would come over and try a different tact, I still didn't leave the store.

I finally decided that I would leave and they called me a taxi. I left the store feeling abused. On my way home, I told my friends and they all agreed that it was inappropriate and that I was retail violated.

I then set about to make sure that nobody would ever shop at the store again.

Retail violated lol

weldoninhio

Us men should be ashamed of ourselves :rolleyes: :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

RacoonQueen

weldoninhio wrote: »

Us men should be ashamed of ourselves :rolleyes: :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Jesus that's why I'm always tired so. Damn my hotness.

Fann Linn

weldoninhio wrote: »

Us men should be ashamed of ourselves :rolleyes: :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Is this for real?
If so, I must admit it, I too am a rapist.

Triceratops Ballet

Fann Linn wrote: »

Is this for real?
If so, I must admit it, I too am a rapist.

assuming it works both ways we all are!

LuckyLloyd

I'm pleased to see mainstream media opinion pieces on the likes of CNN and the NYT call this out for what it is: nonsense. Feels like a movement that has taken a step too far and overreached.

Of course, it doesn't invalidate *everything* that has been discussed in recent times and far from it. But I'm hoping this serves as a good reference point for the maintenance of female agency and responsibility within the wider context of calling people (mostly men) to account for their unacceptable behaviour.

everlast75

Fann Linn wrote: »

Is this for real?
If so, I must admit it, I too am a rapist.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Of course, it doesn't invalidate *everything* that has been discussed in recent times and far from it. But I'm hoping this serves as a good reference point for the maintenance of female agency and responsibility within the wider context of calling people (mostly men) to account for their unacceptable behaviour.

It might make sense to get women to come together, and decide what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior... since there is such a huge variance in opinion and also seems to change every week. Now, there's the very obvious violent or aggressive behavior, but I've seen remarks ranging from complimenting a woman being harassment to looking in her general direction (in her opinion it being sexually related) being assault.

Apparently, men are supposed to just know what is unacceptable behavior to every woman (Telepathically knowing of her personal opinion of what is unacceptable). It was so much simpler when courtesy/manners and common sense taught us what was unacceptable. But now, it seems like pretty much everything a man might do in the presence of a female can be considered some form of harassment, assault or abuse.

And TBH I don't expect too many people taking any lessons from this except that men are creepy. The wider message that it was an unproven accusation will be pushed into the background.