How did PCP work out in the end?

followmeup

shanec1928 wrote: »

have the 1.5 mild hybrid dsg in the new leon estate. previously had a manual 1.5 in a hatch back leon. think its pretty economical. usually get in or around 6L / 100km according to the computer on a long run, I wouldnt be one to hang around. Im sure you could do better if you stuck it in eco and all that lark:pac:

How do you find the build quality in them? I really like the look of them, gonna go test drive one in the next few weeks! Was there much of a discount to be had on them?

CoBo55

shanec1928 wrote: »

have the 1.5 mild hybrid dsg in the new leon estate. previously had a manual 1.5 in a hatch back leon. think its pretty economical. usually get in or around 6L / 100km according to the computer on a long run, I wouldnt be one to hang around. Im sure you could do better if you stuck it in eco and all that lark:pac:

Is it nice around town? I had a DSG 1 litre Octavia and the stop start was very rough it had acc so if the car in front crept forward by even the tiniest few millimetres the engine would start, then stop, car in front would creep, start again, it drove me nuts.

CoBo55

followmeup wrote: »

How do you find the build quality in them? I really like the look of them, gonna go test drive one in the next few weeks! Was there much of a discount to be had on them?

I think they've really improved the build quality, depreciation would be the biggest worry for me especially when getting it on PCP. A family member has a 151 Fr diesel, they're quite small inside compared to an Octavia.

The new ones are longer than a Golf iirc, some reviewer mentioned the hatch had decent rear leg room due to that.

The new Leon is a nice car, range toppers are well up there with VW pricewise so depreciation might be a concern alright I suppose, they certainly aren't a cheap option new.

shanec1928

followmeup wrote: »

How do you find the build quality in them? I really like the look of them, gonna go test drive one in the next few weeks! Was there much of a discount to be had on them?

build quality is pretty good big improvement over the mk3 leon i got out off.

CoBo55 wrote: »

Is it nice around town? I had a DSG 1 litre Octavia and the stop start was very rough it had acc so if the car in front crept forward by even the tiniest few millimetres the engine would start, then stop, car in front would creep, start again, it drove me nuts.

ive found it grand around town. have never set acc to drive around town though.

CoBo55 wrote: »

A family member has a 151 Fr diesel, they're quite small inside compared to an Octavia.

the mk4 is built on the long wheel base MQB paltform the same as the octavia. defiantly a lot bigger in the back seats now. in the mk3 i couldn't sit behind the drives seat if it was set up for me to drive. i can in the mk4

CoBo55

shanec1928 wrote: »

build quality is pretty good big improvement over the mk3 leon i got out off.


ive found it grand around town. have never set acc to drive around town though.

the mk4 is built on the long wheel base MQB paltform the same as the octavia. defiantly a lot bigger in the back seats now. in the mk3 i couldn't sit behind the drives seat if it was set up for me to drive. i can in the mk4

Thanks for the info, I found the MK3 very uncomfortable. The strange thing with the Octavia was it happened even with the ACC turned off, maybe it was being caused by the proximity sensor but it was most bloody annoying.

Rusky rusky

shanec1928 wrote: »

ive found it grand around town. have never set acc to drive around town though.

My mk7.5 golf behaves the same way in the traffic without the acc engaged. Super annoying...

CoBo55

Rusky rusky wrote: »

My mk7.5 golf behaves the same way in the traffic without the acc engaged. Super annoying...

It certainly is, it's a pity you can't set a figure in the menu, while stationery only start engine if vehicle in front moves more than X distance etc. I was wondering do the mild hybrids suffer with the same problem or does the engine only cut in when your car starts moving.

L-M

Mild hybrid is a 48v battery under the seat. It’s a waste of space and does not improve fuel economy. Don’t be fooled by it.

The car can’t actually drive on it. All is does is the end might cut out when the car is coasting downhill.

CoBo55

L-M wrote: »

Mild hybrid is a 48v battery under the seat. It’s a waste of space and does not improve fuel economy. Don’t be fooled by it.

The car can’t actually drive on it. All is does is the end might cut out when the car is coasting downhill.

Yea, it looks like a con job. Think I'll stick with diesel for the next car and see what's around in 2-3 years time.

L-M

Oh no I’d still buy petrol.

The TCO of a diesel doesn’t make sense.

Ie the extra cost of the diesel day one, say 2k. Assuming the resale would be the same as a petrol in three years (which is the case now, if even worse) that’s 55 euro a month you’d have to save on fuel, just to pay for the engine nevermind actually make a fuel saving.

Toyotafanboi

If you were doing a decent mileage though you'd surely save that back?

CoBo55

L-M wrote: »

Oh no I’d still buy petrol.

The TCO of a diesel doesn’t make sense.

Ie the extra cost of the diesel day one, say 2k. Assuming the resale would be the same as a petrol in three years (which is the case now, if even worse) that’s 55 euro a month you’d have to save on fuel, just to pay for the engine nevermind actually make a fuel saving.

I'll be back doing 20k plus a year when the covid stuff ends. I hardly seemed to use the car at all since last March yet there's almost 15k done on it.

L-M

Say a diesel will average 5.2 l per 100 and a petrol will average 6.2 l per 100.

Say 20000kms a year.

20000/100=200*5.2 = 1040 litres of fuel needed. Diesel at 136 per litre =. €1,414 cost of fuel.

20000/100=200*6.2 = 1240 litres of fuel needed. Petrol at 145 per litre = €1,798 cost of fuel.

Difference in fuel €384 per year.

*3 years = €1,152

A Skoda Octavia petrol ambition is 25,920 a diesel is 28775.

That’s 2855 extra for the diesel. So the diesel is still costing you 2855-1152 fuel saving net cost €1,700.

Unless you can claim back diesel as an expensive and VAT it’s hard to ever make up the difference

Toyotafanboi

I agree with your point but 20k kms p/a is a low mileage example to be comparing a petrol to a diesel and is petrol driving territory regardless, i think your example does go to prove though as your kms p/a get higher diesel still would work out cheaper but you'd need to be a high mileage user and even at that the payback is minimal. Inreresting.

Rrrrrr2

Looking at the new Octavia on Carzone they all appear to be the 1.0 l petrol

DaveyDave

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I agree with your point but 20k kms p/a is a low mileage example to be comparing a petrol to a diesel and is petrol driving territory regardless, i think your example does go to prove though as your kms p/a get higher diesel still would work out cheaper but you'd need to be a high mileage user and even at that the payback is minimal. Inreresting.

20,000km is above average so that's still a fair bit of driving. Big enough cost difference on the fuel in a year but it would take years to break even.

At 30,000km

30,000/100=300x5.2 = 1,560 x 1.36 = 2,121
30,000/100=300x6.2 = 1,860 X 1.45 = 2,697

576 X 3 = €1,728 on fuel.

That can't be right. Even at 30k it would take 5 years to break even with a diesel Octavia?

Wildly Boaring

Are diesels not holding value over petrols after 3 years?
They've hardly lost the whole difference.

Short term are petrols in more danger of loss due to EVs?

20k km seems low for diesel.
Always thought the tipping point was more like 20k miles so 30k km.

Wildly Boaring

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

....
20k km seems low for diesel.
Always thought the tipping point was more like 20k miles so 30k km.

Plenty folk with diesels do less than 20k kms.
Still see folk buying them even though with WFH they'll be doing way less. Many won't get to operating temp for months.

Toyotafanboi

20k kms per year is barely above average and in the scheme of anyone buying a diesel for commuting would be a fairly small mileage by comparison IMO.

I suppose what i'm trying to say is 20k kms a year is such an obvious, default mileage to buy a petrol at that it's a silly mileage example to use to show that a diesel doesn't make sense but i think that's the point of what L-M is saying.

Wildly Boaring

Think we're all saying the same thing so.
Buy a petrol for 20k KMS

(Personally I'd be having a very hard look at the smaller EVs for 20k km, lifestyle permitting)

L-M

Nissan and Hyundai are stopping diesel this year, Renault have already stopped.

I’m selling cars a long time and I’m a great advocate for diesel and the need for them, but if I was spending money now I would not buy a new diesel car for personal use.

Lantus

DaveyDave wrote: »

20,000km is above average so that's still a fair bit of driving. Big enough cost difference on the fuel in a year but it would take years to break even.

At 30,000km

30,000/100=300x5.2 = 1,560 x 1.36 = 2,121
30,000/100=300x6.2 = 1,860 X 1.45 = 2,697

576 X 3 = €1,728 on fuel.

That can't be right. Even at 30k it would take 5 years to break even with a diesel Octavia?

Fuel usage will depend on engine and driving style and the journey. I'd say it's not too far off. Diesel has closed the gap on petrol recently in price. If you can sit at 110 ish on the motorway you can get good efficiency.

In 3 or so years petrol will likely be much easier to sell and have better residuals as diesel gets a slow squeeze death.

JoeA3

We replaced a diesel A4 recently with a 1.5 TSI petrol T-Roc. The new car is easily doing 42-43mpg with mostly very short journeys. Its as fuel efficient as the car it replaced along with just being nicer and on another planet in terms of refinement obviously. Longer trips, remains to be seen, but herself is delighted and there’ll never be another diesel in the household.

CoBo55

Lantus wrote: »

Fuel usage will depend on engine and driving style and the journey. I'd say it's not too far off. Diesel has closed the gap on petrol recently in price. If you can sit at 110 ish on the motorway you can get good efficiency.

In 3 or so years petrol will likely be much easier to sell and have better residuals as diesel gets a slow squeeze death.

If anything the gap is getting wider between diesel and petrol, here in Wexford anyway.

CoBo55

JoeA3 wrote: »

We replaced a diesel A4 recently with a 1.5 TSI petrol T-Roc. The new car is easily doing 42-43mpg with mostly very short journeys. Its as fuel efficient as the car it replaced along with just being nicer and on another planet in terms of refinement obviously. Longer trips, remains to be seen, but herself is delighted and there’ll never be another diesel in the household.

I was getting that mpg from the 1.4 TSI DSG and was very happy with it. The 1 litre that replaced it was a dog, it was down in the low thirties mostly. I was forever putting petrol in it even the missus who doesn't drive noticed I was always filling it. The fecker had me broke. If I knew I was going to get your figures I'd go for the 1.5.

CoBo55

Lantus wrote: »

Fuel usage will depend on engine and driving style and the journey. I'd say it's not too far off. Diesel has closed the gap on petrol recently in price. If you can sit at 110 ish on the motorway you can get good efficiency.

In 3 or so years petrol will likely be much easier to sell and have better residuals as diesel gets a slow squeeze death.

That's what I was told when I bought the 172 petrol... It hasn't happened yet people are still buying diesels and they aren't worthless. With the paltry offer that the dealer made on mine when I bought the Superb I didn't benefit from the so called fantastic residuals on a petrol car.

Wildly Boaring

CoBo55 wrote: »

That's what I was told when I bought the 172 petrol... It hasn't happened yet people are still buying diesels and they aren't worthless. With the paltry offer that the dealer made on mine when I bought the Superb I didn't benefit from the so called fantastic residuals on a petrol car.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

There's a big market for low mileage 3 or 4 year old diesels. But would a dealer acknowledge that when you trade in??

EV is the disruptive force.
What's an iD3 going to trade in at in 2024?
Will the diesel folks be flat out buying them instead?
Will small EVs hold good value on trade in?
I think they will once the batteries keep range

photosmart

EV residuals are going to be a function of the battery and remaining life.
It remains to be seen but I would think that the forecast lifespans are overly optimistic.


Essentially the EV car batteries are made up of packs of 18650's. The same batteries that are in high end torches and in lithium power tools. Going on my experience these have a lifespan of 4 - 5 years before significant degradation.



Hence I would say that EV's that are 5 years old are going to be worth very little as they will need a new "pack".


Don't expect to hear this from the industry - most will find it out the hard way.

Casati

photosmart wrote: »

EV residuals are going to be a function of the battery and remaining life.
It remains to be seen but I would think that the forecast lifespans are overly optimistic.


Essentially the EV car batteries are made up of packs of 18650's. The same batteries that are in high end torches and in lithium power tools. Going on my experience these have a lifespan of 4 - 5 years before significant degradation.



Hence I would say that EV's that are 5 years old are going to be worth very little as they will need a new "pack".


Don't expect to hear this from the industry - most will find it out the hard way.

Don’t visit the EV forum anytime soon with that banter!