Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

VinLieger

liamo wrote: »

Some media commentators have been describing this as a "surprise" development. The only surprising thing about this is that anybody's surprised. It's not like they've got form or ... oh wait...!!

Its entirely Trump and his supporters fault for giving them the ammo to do this.

Trump has staked so much on this and how he;s responsible for it, then you have moronic GOP talking heads demanding a nobel peace prize etc before anything has even really happened beyond a few nice photos or any paper has been signed.

Now that he's made such a big deal about it if it fails he's gonna look a right twat, so he's gonna have to bend over backwards now to appease them to stop it falling apart and so again its all his fault as he gave NK the oppurtunity

Leroy42

Trump has actually played this pretty well. Whilst he has lauded the announcement of the talks (which are a positive development) he has also been careful to say that if nothing comes out of them then nothing changes.

I think what he has done is give the NK a huge PR boost and a place at the table with no preconditions, exactly what the US had been against for years.

Clinton, W Bush and Obama all had tacit agreements to move forward before the deals were stopped and it looks very much like this has the potential to go the same way. I would worry if Trump ego and desire to get a deal will override the sense of a making a deal. Anybody can make a deal, the hard part of making a deal that works. It would appear from press briefings that the US would be willing to spend massively into NK if they stop the nukes.

In that case NK would have got exactly what it set out to get. Invest in nukes to get massive subsidies from the US whilst those hateful evil people in charge get to remain in charge. Trump may be willing to go that route to simply get his prize and the adulation of the world.

jooksavage

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump has actually played this pretty well. Whilst he has lauded the announcement of the talks (which are a positive development) he has also been careful to say that if nothing comes out of them then nothing changes.

I think what he has done is give the NK a huge PR boost and a place at the table with no preconditions, exactly what the US had been against for years.

Clinton, W Bush and Obama all had tacit agreements to move forward before the deals were stopped and it looks very much like this has the potential to go the same way. I would worry if Trump ego and desire to get a deal will override the sense of a making a deal. Anybody can make a deal, the hard part of making a deal that works. It would appear from press briefings that the US would be willing to spend massively into NK if they stop the nukes.

In that case NK would have got exactly what it set out to get. Invest in nukes to get massive subsidies from the US whilst those hateful evil people in charge get to remain in charge. Trump may be willing to go that route to simply get his prize and the adulation of the world.

It's pretty sick though that the likes of Pompeo are touting this potential deal, and Republicans are demanding a Nobel prize for Trump when they've just further destabilized the Middle East by killing a similar deal with Iran. The main difference here is that NK already have nukes whereas Iran was coaxed into abandoning it's development program.

It remains to be seen what a "win" looks like: No nukes? Some nukes? Their nuclear program might have been temporarily halted by the collapse of their testing site but I'd be very surprised if NK give up their arsenal altogether. What does Trump do if NK fudge? My guess is whatever he can get out of NK, he'll try to sell as a huge victory. At the moment, in spite of the earlier encouraging display of rapprochement between North and South, there's little indication that NK are going to go much further than they have with previous administrations.

Leroy42

I think we can glean a lot from the Trump approach to the release of the 3 hostages. He was gushing with praise for Kim. This is an evil dictator who, along with his family, and denied human rights to millions.

But Trump doesn't care about any of that, he wants a win, a prize to hand on his wall. My bet, is that NK will agree (they already have in terms of the testing site) to dismantle their nuke capability but there will be very little in the way on inspections. They will undertake a few cursory reviews but nothing ongoing.

In return NK will get massive subsidies, lifting of sanctions (look at Trump recent Tweet about the Chinese phone company ZTE) which will buy them enough time and money to restart the program in the future (this is based on my assumption that with the collapse of the test site and NK have run out money). Kim gets to stay in place, NK gets left alone, Trump gets his accolades.

Quin_Dub

The Trump announcements around ZTE are under further scrutiny after it has emerged that 3 days before his tweets , the Chinese government gave $500M to a project in Indonesia that directly benefits the Trump organisation..

According to multiple news outlets, the president’s total about-face on China came just 72 hours after the developer of a theme park outside Jakarta, known as MNC Lido City, with whom the Trump Organization has an agreement to license its name, signed a deal to receive $500 million in Chinese government loans, in addition to another $500 million from government banks. According to Agence France-Presse, the Trump Organization will rake in almost $3.7 million in licensing and consulting payments from Lido, along with another project in Bali. The company will also earn management fees, and be “eligible for additional unspecified incentives.” (Upon entering the White House, Trump turned over day-to-day management of the family business to his sons Donny Jr. and Eric, but chose not to divest himself financially from the company.)

From "Is China straight up bribing Donald Trump?"

check_six

$3.7M directly into his back pocket and he'll do anything you want?

You can now buy America for $3.7M? Seems kind of bargain basement to me. This fellow needs to broaden his horizons if he wants to really profit from this gig.

Also, how come there is always something blatantly transparent happening in the background of each of these volte face twitter announcements? Is there no way they would think to be even a little bit sneaky about it? Is it the total lack of political nous? Am I missing something here?

jooksavage

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The Trump announcements around ZTE are under further scrutiny after it has emerged that 3 days before his tweets , the Chinese government gave $500M to a project in Indonesia that directly benefits the Trump organisation..



From "Is China straight up bribing Donald Trump?"

This level of blatant, brazen corruption is breathtaking. And the fact that it's happening out in the open with no consequences for Trump (excepting futile grumbling from some Republican senators) just goes to show how far things have gone. When the Dep. WH press secretary was asked about this his reply was "You’re asking about a private organization’s dealings." Dear God.

Leroy42

check_six wrote: »

$3.7M directly into his back pocket and he'll do anything you want?

You can now buy America for $3.7M? Seems kind of bargain basement to me. This fellow needs to broaden his horizons if he wants to really profit from this gig.

Also, how come there is always something blatantly transparent happening in the background of each of these volte face twitter announcements? Is there no way they would think to be even a little bit sneaky about it? Is it the total lack of political nous? Am I missing something here?

Part of it os lack of political nous, part of it (the main part IMO) is that he has been getting away with it for years and never had to worry about it.

The presidency was never about helping the US, it was mainly about helping the brand. That he ended up as POTUS was a disappointment, but now that they expect him to work he is damn well going to make the most of it.

Finally, he knows there is simply no price to pay for it. The GOP has let he off with anything he has done up to this point, even the likes of Criz and Rubio who were directly effected by Trump has stayed loyal. That ZTE tweet should have caused uproar. Hardly a ripple. This should cause him to be impeached, or at the very least a new investigation opened, but nothing will happen.

Hell, Jared sister in law was caught red handed trying to sell apartments for visas on the back of Trump being POTUS and it hardly raised an eyebrow.

jooksavage

The contents of Trumps annaul financial disclosure forms, which should be available in a day or two, are being hotly anticipated in some quarters. I'm not sure why - if something as nakedly corrupt as at the ZTE deal has no consequnces, why get worked up about misuse of campaign funds or the paying of illicit hush money? The hypocrites who would have crucified Obama for 1% of what Trump is openly engaged in will continue to turn a blind eye, demand Nobel prizes and, when Mueller finally delivers his report, refuse to act on it and accuse the investigators of partisanship. This stinks.

Quin_Dub

check_six wrote: »

$3.7M directly into his back pocket and he'll do anything you want?

You can now buy America for $3.7M? Seems kind of bargain basement to me. This fellow needs to broaden his horizons if he wants to really profit from this gig.

Also, how come there is always something blatantly transparent happening in the background of each of these volte face twitter announcements? Is there no way they would think to be even a little bit sneaky about it? Is it the total lack of political nous? Am I missing something here?

I suspect that the "eligible for additional unspecified incentives" is the critical bit there..

Leroy42

The ZTE tweet should have caused serious rethinking from his base. The latest story should see them turn on him as it will clearly show that he is focused on him rather than them.

Chances of any of that happening? Zero. They are watching as the POTUS is corrupting their country, and not only watching but happily cheering and whooping him on.

The lack of any outcry that he continues to refuse to release his taxes. The lack of outcry that Jared continues to lie on official forms. The lack of outcry about the likes of Pruitt, DeVos and Carson. The lack of outcry that he refused to divest his business interests. The lack of outcry that he continues to use his own properties as holiday resorts that the public have to pay for. The lack of outcry that he spends such a large amount of him time playing golf.

VinLieger

Leroy42 wrote: »

The lack of outcry that he spends such a large amount of him time playing golf.

If he continues playing as much as he has by the end of the first term he will have spent easily over 365 days playing golf

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

The ZTE tweet should have caused serious rethinking from his base. The latest story should see them turn on him as it will clearly show that he is focused on him rather than them.

Chances of any of that happening? Zero. They are watching as the POTUS is corrupting their country, and not only watching but happily cheering and whooping him on.

The lack of any outcry that he continues to refuse to release his taxes. The lack of outcry that Jared continues to lie on official forms. The lack of outcry about the likes of Pruitt, DeVos and Carson. The lack of outcry that he refused to divest his business interests. The lack of outcry that he continues to use his own properties as holiday resorts that the public have to pay for. The lack of outcry that he spends such a large amount of him time playing golf.

This is the hypocrisy.. how is this different from the "Hillary/Uranium" story that they all rant about on the surface?

We have a company/organisation connected to DJT getting a financial benefit from a 3rd party around the same time as said 3rd Party organisation receives a significant benefit somewhere else.

Now , it could all be completely above board with no true breach of rules, but it LOOKS Terrible - How do they not get that?

Zubeneschamali

check_six wrote: »

Am I missing something here?

Back when Bush was invading Iraq and people were yelling and screaming that it was idiotic and would end in disaster, there was lots of commentary to the effect that you don't get to be a successful guy and then President if you are an idiot, so Bush must know what he's doing.

All of that commentary was wrong.

Now we hear that Trump can't be an narcissist with attention deficit disorder and what looks like either early stage dementia or late stage syphilis because you can't be a serial bankrupt, a reality TV star and then President if you are not all there.

jooksavage

Quin_Dub wrote: »

This is the hypocrisy.. how is this different from the "Hillary/Uranium" story that they all rant about on the surface?

We have a company/organisation connected to DJT getting a financial benefit from a 3rd party around the same time as said 3rd Party organisation receives a significant benefit somewhere else.

Now , it could all be completely above board with no true breach of rules, but it LOOKS Terrible - How do they not get that?

It's more likely he doesn't care how it looks. Virginia Heffernan from Slate interviewed someone last week and they drew another parallel between Trump and Putin - the more the corruption and the lies that Trump gets away with it, the more invulnerable he appears. Escalating scandals like the ones Trump has weathered would have destroyed 999 out of 1000 political careers but the longer Trump carries on without fear of consequences, the more brazen and open the corruption. God alone knows where this will all end if the Dems fail to take at least one of the houses in November.

PropJoe10

jooksavage wrote: »

It's more likely he doesn't care how it looks. Virginia Heffernan from Slate interviewed someone last week and they drew another parallel between Trump and Putin - the more the corruption and the lies that Trump gets away with it, the more invulnerable he appears. Escalating scandals like the ones Trump has weathered would have destroyed 999 out of 1000 political careers but the longer Trump carries on without fear of consequences, the more brazen and open the corruption. God alone knows where this will all end if the Dems fail to take at least one of the houses in November.

We can only pray that they have a strategy to fight back because the Repugnants will never do anything to undermine Trump, no matter how corrupt he is. Trump is quite a remarkable phenomenon. No matter how much dirt comes out on him, he just keeps on truckin'.

everlast75

jooksavage wrote: »

The contents of Trumps annaul financial disclosure forms, which should be available in a day or two, are being hotly anticipated in some quarters. I'm not sure why - if something as nakedly corrupt as at the ZTE deal has no consequnces, why get worked up about misuse of campaign funds or the paying of illicit hush money? The hypocrites who would have crucified Obama for 1% of what Trump is openly engaged in will continue to turn a blind eye, demand Nobel prizes and, when Mueller finally delivers his report, refuse to act on it and accuse the investigators of partisanship. This stinks.

the forms have been made public already. I tried to go through them but they are substantial (see below)

https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Foge.box.com%2Fs%2Fkz4qvbdsbcfrzq16msuo4zmth6rerh1c

I don't think that the reports will have wide ranging implications. However, they should (once and for all) clarify if Trump paid Cohen back for the Stormy Daniels matter. And whilst that is a relatively small matter (and seems like years ago) there may be issues regarding campaign finance violations.

We just need for something to stick prosecution-wise, even for moral reasons for those opposed to this clown.

There are 3 possible reasons for the chinese deal (with a company which was the subject of a bi-partisian report that said they were a security issue to the US and said company also violating trade sanctions with Iran)

1) Quid pro quo for his properties in Indonesia
2) He is losing badly to NK in PR terms and is looking for assistance from China to put manners on KJU
3) He is losing the "trade war" and is seeking to curry favour with the chinese (no pun intended) to end it or at least de-escalate it

jooksavage

Senate Judiciary Committee just dropped 2,500 pages of transcripts related to the committe's inquiry. The Atlantic's Natasha Bertrand tweeted the following - some notes Paul Manafort took on his phone during the June '16 Trump Tower meeting

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/996738778512416768

Bill Browder is mentioned twice here along with 2 references to Cyprus. This proves beyond doubt (as if there were anyway) that the meeting was primarily about Russian sanctions that came via the Magnitsky Act.

Igotadose

McConnell's brother-in-law (married to the Labor Secretary's sister), now going to run the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp, which is in a world of hurt. His qualifications? Well.... he's married to McConnell's wife's sister. Isn't that good enough for a job in the Trump Admin?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/15/trump-nominates-mitch-mcconnell-in-law-gordon-hartogensis-for-job.html

He apparently started a CRM company 7 years ago, that does under $3 million per year in business. Not exactly Siebel/Salesforce/... The guy's massively unqualified imnsho.

Leroy42

jooksavage wrote: »

Senate Judiciary Committee just dropped 2,500 pages of transcripts related to the committe's inquiry. The Atlantic's Natasha Bertrand tweeted the following - some notes Paul Manafort took on his phone during the June '16 Trump Tower meeting

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/996738778512416768

Bill Browder is mentioned twice here along with 2 references to Cyprus. This proves beyond doubt (as if there were anyway) that the meeting was primarily about Russian sanctions that came via the Magnitsky Act.

Doesn't it also not give any credence to the idea that the meeting was to do with obtaining illegally acquired intel on HC?

amandstu

Leroy42 wrote: »

Doesn't it also not give any credence to the idea that the meeting was to do with obtaining illegally acquired intel on HC?

Miss Ian Drury. He might have had a good take on this farce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiulgP9kR7c



"nor neither haven't not...."

Mumha

jooksavage wrote: »

Senate Judiciary Committee just dropped 2,500 pages of transcripts related to the committe's inquiry. The Atlantic's Natasha Bertrand tweeted the following - some notes Paul Manafort took on his phone during the June '16 Trump Tower meeting

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/996738778512416768

Bill Browder is mentioned twice here along with 2 references to Cyprus. This proves beyond doubt (as if there were anyway) that the meeting was primarily about Russian sanctions that came via the Magnitsky Act.

Of course it was. What's stunning is the sheer treasonous behaviour, "What's in it for us ?", and then acting the gom later. This a prime example from Donnie jr from the transcripts

everlast75

Mumha wrote: »

Of course it was. What's stunning is the sheer treasonous behaviour, "What's in it for us ?", and then acting the gom later. This a prime example from Donnie jr from the transcripts

He had a phone call for a number of minutes to a blocked number after the meeting and says he can't remember who it was to.

He also said he doesn't recall if he spoke to his dad about the russians (!)

The Senate, upon consideration of the 2500 report have come around to the fact that the russians did meddle in the election.

Sets the stage nicely for an impeachment hearing!

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

the forms have been made public already. I tried to go through them but they are substantial (see below)

https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Foge.box.com%2Fs%2Fkz4qvbdsbcfrzq16msuo4zmth6rerh1c

I don't think that the reports will have wide ranging implications. However, they should (once and for all) clarify if Trump paid Cohen back for the Stormy Daniels matter. And whilst that is a relatively small matter (and seems like years ago) there may be issues regarding campaign finance violations.

We just need for something to stick prosecution-wise, even for moral reasons for those opposed to this clown.

Wish granted!! Super news

https://twitter.com/EricColumbus/status/996807242941911040?s=19

Can't help but think Rod won't relish the chance to stick it to Don after all the trash talking...

Captain Obvious

So Trump campaign was simultaneously dealing with Russia to have information released on Hillary and breaching campaign finance rules to have information on Trump covered up.

Cheerful Spring

mcmoustache wrote: »

The world knows how to play Trump. He's simple, corrupt and everyone knows it.

If you read the NK statement both sides don't agree on what should happen.

NK foreign minister statement.
White House national security adviser, are letting loose the assertions of so-called Libya mode of nuclear abandonment, ‘complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization,’ ‘total decommissioning of nuclear weapons, missiles, biochemical weapons.’ etc., while talking about formula of ‘abandoning nuclear weapons first, compensating afterwards.'”

“I cannot suppress indignation at such moves of the U.S., and harbor doubt that the U.S. sincerity for improved DPRK-U.S. relations through sound dialogue and negotiations,” he added.

World knows too well that our country is neither Libya nor Iraq which have met miserable fate,” the statement said.

“We shed light on the quality of Bolton already in the past and we do not hide our feeling of repugnance towards him,” he explained.

Trump will expect full denuclearization if they meet!

Cheerful Spring

circadian wrote: »

If Trump's administration had any kind of diplomacy nous they'd probably have put things like military exercises on hold until talks were had.

It's not like North Korea hasn't reacted to these exercises before.

True what the point of them if they are talking?

Captain Obvious

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

If you read the NK statement both sides don't agree on what should happen.

NK foreign minister statement.
White House national security adviser, are letting loose the assertions of so-called Libya mode of nuclear abandonment, ‘complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization,’ ‘total decommissioning of nuclear weapons, missiles, biochemical weapons.’ etc., while talking about formula of ‘abandoning nuclear weapons first, compensating afterwards.'”

“I cannot suppress indignation at such moves of the U.S., and harbor doubt that the U.S. sincerity for improved DPRK-U.S. relations through sound dialogue and negotiations,” he added.

World knows too well that our country is neither Libya nor Iraq which have met miserable fate,” the statement said.

“We shed light on the quality of Bolton already in the past and we do not hide our feeling of repugnance towards him,” he explained.

Trump will expect full denuclearization if they meet!

Can you imagine if Trump manages to make NK the good guy in these negotiations? What an accomplishment that would be. Terrible for the world but amazing none the less.

Cheerful Spring

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Can you imagine if Trump manages to make NK the good guy in these negotiations? What an accomplishment that would be. Terrible for the world but amazing none the less.

I don't know the US media will never trust Kim and North Korea. US media is demanding verifiable denuclearisation as well. North Korea never had a willingness to give up its nuclear weapons for nothing. This could be the end because both sides are looking for different things in the negotiation. If Trump willing to ease sanctions and stop military exercises and provide aid before denuclearization maybe they can work out a deal?

Itssoeasy

Donald Trump's financial disclosure forms which have been released list a payment to Michael Cohen stating that he paid Mr Cohen back in 2017 in the range of $100,001 to $250,000. I mean it's hardly a surprise that Trump can't even get his story straight on this, but the fact we have video evidence of him on Air Force one saying he knew nothing about the payment. And we have an official government form where he lists a payment he claims he knew nothing about.