Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

mattser

AlAlkovitch4 wrote: »

Have to say I’m a fan, he is definitely an asshole but seems to be better for the ordinary man than most politicians

The exact sentiments of an ex colleague of mine who is now based in Texas. Reckons he's the best thing that has happened in that, and surrounding states. Like me, he can't believe the vitriol over here.

StringerBell

The mid terms will tell a lot in terms of the overall feeling of the US population. I think the sheer number of Republicans not even bothering to run again tells its own story in the report card they expect from their constituents.

Zubeneschamali

mattser wrote: »

Like me, he can't believe the vitriol over here.

"Over here"? You mean in Ireland?

This isn't vitriol, we mainly think Trump is comical.

You want vitriol, talk to a New Yorker.

jooksavage

mattser wrote: »

The exact sentiments of an ex colleague of mine who is now based in Texas. Reckons he's the best thing that has happened in that, and surrounding states. Like me, he can't believe the vitriol over here.

While I can understand some folks arguing that Trump should be given a chance and maybe some people less familiar with the norms and conventions of his office failing to appreciate the extent to which he's transgressing, I'm immediately suspicious of the sincerity of anyone who claims Trump is "the best" at anything.

MarinersBlues

NKante wrote: »

What damage? angered a few bureaucrats in the EU? 
Angered a totalitarian regime in Iran?

North Korea has been one of the most volatile situations this world has had since the Cuban missile crisis. Relations with the EU, Iran, Embassy move in Jerusalem pale in significance.
I hope he goes all out for Korean peace.

His row with Sadiq Khan.
His row with Teresa May when he waded in for the extreme right in Britain.
His slip of the tongue (leaking) of Isreali intelligence to Russian diplomats.
His trade war with China.
His expelling of more Russian diplomats than the entire of Europe :pac::pac:
His ridiculous carry on with Macron.
Potentially starting a full blown religious war in the Middle East.
A reprimand he earned form Macron, Merkel and May on the Iran deal.
Emboldening Israeli defence forces to kill nearly 60 civilians and fire at journalists/medics.


I may have missed a few.

edit: I did miss one
Calling African countries "shytholes"

edit: Another couple
The whole wall fiasco with Mexico and how they should pay for it.
Blaming nearly all of South America and Central America for the US's inability to control their own immigration and drug problems.

Mumha

mattser wrote: »

The exact sentiments of an ex colleague of mine who is now based in Texas. Reckons he's the best thing that has happened in that, and surrounding states. Like me, he can't believe the vitriol over here.

The bestest ! :rolleyes:

And he's also the bestest in paying off Playmates and Porn Stars with badly created NDAs !

And speaking of which

Summer Zervos's defamation lawsuit against Trump can proceed, court rules

A New York court has said that Summer Zervos, a former Apprentice contestant, can proceed with her defamation lawsuit against Donald Trump, at least for now.

The ruling by the supreme court’s appellate division means Zervos’s lawyers can press ahead with a demand for Trump campaign documents and other records while they await another appeals court decision that is likely months away.

Trump’s lawyers had asked to put the case on ice until appeals judges decide whether to dismiss it or postpone it past his presidency. That’s likely to take at least until autumn.

“We look forward to proving Ms Zervos’s claim that (the) defendant lied when he maliciously attacked her for reporting his sexually abusive behavior,” said her lawyer, Mariann Wang.

Zervos, a California restaurateur, appeared on Trump’s former show The Apprentice in 2006. She says he subjected her to unwanted groping and kisses when she sought career advice in 2007.

..... AND HERE'S THE BEST BIT

The attorneys have issued a subpoena for any unaired Apprentice footage that features Zervos or Trump talking about her or discussing other female contestants in a sexual or inappropriate way.

Show owner MGM has declined to comment on the subpoena, but previously said contracts bar it from releasing unaired material.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/17/trump-summer-zervos-defamation-lawsuit-court

amandstu

MarinersBlues wrote: »

His row with Sadiq Khan.
His row with Teresa May when he waded in for the extreme right in Britain.
His slip of the tongue (leaking) of Isreali intelligence to Russian diplomats.
His trade war with China.
His expelling of more Russian diplomats than the entire of Europe :pac::pac:
His ridiculous carry on with Macron.
Potentially starting a full blown religious war in the Middle East.
A reprimand he earned form Macron, Merkel and May on the Iran deal.
Emboldening Israeli defence forces to kill nearly 60 civilians and fire at journalists/medics.


I may have missed a few.

edit: I did miss one
Calling African countries "shytholes"

edit: Another couple
The whole wall fiasco with Mexico and how they should pay for it.
Blaming nearly all of South America and Central America for the US's inability to control their own immigration and drug problems.

Calling on the Russians to release H's emails (the spirit of democratic treachery in my book)

Withdrawing USA from the Climate Treaty (crime against the next generations)

Falsifying his medical report.

Blowfish

MarinersBlues wrote: »

I may have missed a few.

There are a few more alright:

• Weakened NATO by threatening to not follow through with its treaties.
• Pulled out of the Paris agreement.
• Appointed a national security advisor who within a month has managed to threaten sanctions on the EU and piss of NK.
• Appointed an ambassador to the NL who said Muslim burned politicians and created 'no go' areas, then blatantly lied by claiming he didn't say it.
• Appointed an ambassador to Germany who, the first day of his job, made demands that German companies shouldn't do business in Iran.
• His Muslim ban, which is not going to make him friends with about 1 billion or so people around the world.
• His rhetoric around Latin America, e.g. calling Mexican immigrants rapists, drug dealers and criminals.
• The transgender military ban.
• Bragging about sexual assault 'grab 'em by the pussy'.
• Saying that terrorists families should be killed - which is a war crime.
• Advocated for torture - which is another war crime.
• Threatened to launch Nukes against ISIS and NK.
• Attacked democracy by praising Xi Jinping for eliminating term limits and saying 'maybe we'll have to give that a shot someday'.

That's still only a tiny minority of it all, I reckon I've forgotten far more of it than I can remember.

[edit] All of that leads to results like this, where opinion of the US is clearly dropping: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/03/how-trump-has-weakened-the-worlds-view-of-the-us.html

Leroy42

It all depends on what criteria you are basing your judgement.

If, for example, you are a neo-nazi then Trump is clearly the best POTUS. If you are a climate change denier, then Trump is clearly the best. If you believe that the military is the solution to every problem or that the right to guns is more important that the lives of people then again Trump is brilliant.

mcmoustache

Leroy42 wrote: »

It all depends on what criteria you are basing your judgement.

If, for example, you are a neo-nazi then Trump is clearly the best POTUS. If you are a climate change denier, then Trump is clearly the best. If you believe that the military is the solution to every problem or that the right to guns is more important that the lives of people then again Trump is brilliant.

You forgot his big one - Trigring da libruls.

everlast75

The president and Nunes have called for the identification of the Agent planted in the Trump team.

This is despite them being advised that to disclose the identity of the person could place him in actual danger.

You have to wonder at this stage, what exactly does Trump and/or Russia have over Nunes (and, more than likely Ryan as he controls Nunes)?
Their actions make them look incredibly guilty to anyone who is not engaged in massive cognitive dissonance

VinLieger

NKante wrote: »

What damage? angered a few bureaucrats in the EU?
Angered a totalitarian regime in Iran?

North Korea has been one of the most volatile situations this world has had since the Cuban missile crisis. Relations with the EU, Iran, Embassy move in Jerusalem pale in significance.
I hope he goes all out for Korean peace.

He's destroyed the US's position as a global leader, hes decimated their base of soft power which is vital to interacting positively with other countries and displayed by pulling out of several international agreements that their word no longer can be believed or trusted. As many world leaders have already stated with Trump in charge the US can no longer be counted on for anything.

He's also about the blow the NK thing by bloviating too much prior to anything actually being achieved.

NKante

MarinersBlues wrote: »

His row with Sadiq Khan.
His row with Teresa May when he waded in for the extreme right in Britain.
His slip of the tongue (leaking) of Isreali intelligence to Russian diplomats.
His trade war with China.
His expelling of more Russian diplomats than the entire of Europe :pac::pac:
His ridiculous carry on with Macron.
Potentially starting a full blown religious war in the Middle East.
A reprimand he earned form Macron, Merkel and May on the Iran deal.
Emboldening Israeli defence forces to kill nearly 60 civilians and fire at journalists/medics.


I may have missed a few.

edit: I did miss one
Calling African countries "shytholes"

edit: Another couple
The whole wall fiasco with Mexico and how they should pay for it.
Blaming nearly all of South America and Central America for the US's inability to control their own immigration and drug problems.

Oh no, a row with a useless Mayor - WWIII!!
Oh no, a row with T-May, how devastating for the world
Obama actually went out of his way to help Israel's enemies
Him expelling Russian diplomats was to support the UK, how does that factor in with rowing with T-May?
He's right on the Iran deal. Corrupt EU just want Iran deals, he's wanting a Nuke-free Iran.

Israeli forces killed mostly Hamas/Islamic Jihad men, by palestinians' own admission.

Sorry pal. Obama's terrible policies with N.Korea, Syria and Iran were catastrophic. Everyone bar Iran hated Obama in the Middle East.

Leroy42

NKante wrote: »

Sorry pal. Obama's terrible policies with N.Korea, Syria and Iran were catastrophic. Everyone bar Iran hated Obama in the Middle East.

But Trump hasn't achieved anything yet. Nothing has changed in NK, except that he has escalated the issue and now given himself little room to move.

Iran, by the judgment of seemingly everyone else in the world, was a great achievement. Obama finally got Bin Laden.

There seems to be a rush to land Trump with as many plaudits as possible, but as we have seen with NK, these things are complicated and made up of many moving parts, neither of which are big parts of Trumps abilities.

In terms of who hated Obama, there is no doubt that he made many mistakes, but he certainly brought the US back in terms of its international standing. Trump has so far managed to annoy Nato, Europe, Mexico, Canada, Australia, Africa and the whole of the ME baring Israel, which he had to give in to their demands to get them on his side by giving them the embassy move. What was the benefit to the US for that, what did Trump achieve for the US from that deal?

Leroy42

Giuliani has stated on CNN this morning that they don't actually know if there was an FBI informant placed within the Trump campaign. This despite the POTUS officially announcing it yesterday on Twitter.

Turns out it was nothing more than a rumour from an unidentified source (unidentified to us). This is the very type of fake news that Trump and the WH rails against and yet here they are spreading rumours and gossip as fact. And not simply discussing it between themselves, but using an official communication from POTUS to spread it out.

wes

NKante wrote: »

Oh no, a row with a useless Mayor - WWIII!!

A completely needless row with the mayor of an ally. That is at best incompetence on Trumps part, but it was likely motivated by his racism.

NKante wrote: »

Oh no, a row with T-May, how devastating for the world

If the UK wasn't already the US's poodle and in a bad way due to Brexit, it would have been a bigger issue. Still needlessly antagonizing an ally is utters stupidity and more evidence of incompetence.

NKante wrote: »

Obama actually went out of his way to help Israel's enemies

He increased military aid to them all the time, and occasionally criticized them very softly. its amazing how extremist pro-Israel types try to make it out that he was helping there enemies, because of very, very mild criticism, but here is the thing, what relevance does Obama have to do with Trump exactly? The post your replied to didn't mention him at all. Do you share the same racist hatred of Obama that Trump does? I can see no other reason for bringing him up.

NKante wrote: »

Him expelling Russian diplomats was to support the UK, how does that factor in with rowing with T-May?

He asked Russia for help against Hiliary and is basically in there pocket. His expulsions were meaningless.

NKante wrote: »

He's right on the Iran deal. Corrupt EU just want Iran deals, he's wanting a Nuke-free Iran.

On what basis is the EU corrupt? Trump is against the Iran deal, due to his insane racist hatred of Obama. Hence, him trying to dismantle everything Obama did.

NKante wrote: »

Israeli forces killed mostly Hamas/Islamic Jihad men, by palestinians' own admission.

They mostly murdered unarmed protesters, including children, doctors, amputees. Basically anyone who is a Palestinian. BTW, Hamas will always claim people as martyrs, that is what they do to bolster them. Israel puts there own numbers as being much lower. Basically you can't really trust either side on that.

Still the fact remains that they were unarmed, and even if they were member of Hamas, its still cold blooded murder, in much the same way as it would be if it was the other way round, as Hamas and there ilk could offer a similar justification as you are doing, in that all Israelis are required to do military service. In both case it would be wrong.

I have to note how disgusting it is for someone to make excuses for IDF war crimes. It is imo a example of the sheer level of hateful racism we see from supporters of Israel, who not only refuse to condemn atrocities carried out by Israel, but actively support them. That level of extremism is truly awful.

NKante wrote: »

Sorry pal. Obama's terrible policies with N.Korea, Syria and Iran were catastrophic. Everyone bar Iran hated Obama in the Middle East.

What does Obama have to do with anything, other than Trump and his supporters (most of them in anyways at this point) hate him as he is African American? Its very odd to keep bringing him up, and I can only come to one conclusion really.

pixelburp

NKante wrote: »

What damage? angered a few bureaucrats in the EU? 
Angered a totalitarian regime in Iran?

North Korea has been one of the most volatile situations this world has had since the Cuban missile crisis. Relations with the EU, Iran, Embassy move in Jerusalem pale in significance.
I hope he goes all out for Korean peace.

Trump, through the erstwhile Rex Tillerson, has gutted the State Department in Washington, with many, many positions in key departments remaining unfilled & empty. Amid all the other tattle and issues with appointments, this has gone generally underreported, though will likely have huge ramifications in future.

Before you scream 'So what?', if you're genuinely asking what damage Trump has done, then this is where the reality kicks in, beyond public spats. If you're serious about US politics, and see his personality as irrelevant to discussion, then here's where his policies are demonstrably hurting - and will hurt - the US.

Without a strong State Department, US political influence aboard has been severely reduced - the famous 'Soft Power' as coined during Theodore Roosevelt's term. Speak softly, and carry a big stick as they say. The USA no longer has the same capacity or expertise to wield influence in key flash-points, beyond public Tweets from the President that have frequently contradicted the few representatives operating in diplomatic channels.

Stop and think of all the back channel operations the US has conducted - for good, or bad - down the years, and chances are it began, or propagated via the State Department. It's arguably the biggest weapon the US has outside of ... well, you know, it's actual weapons.

So yes, Trump has done huge damage to international relations. Mostly its own.

NKante

wes wrote: »

A completely needless row with the mayor of an ally. That is at best incompetence on Trumps part, but it was likely motivated by his racism.



If the UK wasn't already the US's poodle and in a bad way due to Brexit, it would have been a bigger issue. Still needlessly antagonizing an ally is utters stupidity and more evidence of incompetence.



He increased military aid to them all the time, and occasionally criticized them very softly. its amazing how extremist pro-Israel types try to make it out that he was helping there enemies, because of very, very mild criticism, but here is the thing, what relevance does Obama have to do with Trump exactly? The post your replied to didn't mention him at all. Do you share the same racist hatred of Obama that Trump does? I can see no other reason for bringing him up.



He asked Russia for help against Hiliary and is basically in there pocket. His expulsions were meaningless.



On what basis is the EU corrupt? Trump is against the Iran deal, due to his insane racist hatred of Obama. Hence, him trying to dismantle everything Obama did.



They mostly murdered unarmed protesters, including children, doctors, amputees. Basically anyone who is a Palestinian. BTW, Hamas will always claim people as martyrs, that is what they do to bolster them. Israel puts there own numbers as being much lower. Basically you can't really trust either side on that.

Still the fact remains that they were unarmed, and even if they were member of Hamas, its still cold blooded murder, in much the same way as it would be if it was the other way round, as Hamas and there ilk could offer a similar justification as you are doing, in that all Israelis are required to do military service. In both case it would be wrong.

I have to note how disgusting it is for someone to make excuses for IDF war crimes. It is imo a example of the sheer level of hateful racism we see from supporters of Israel, who not only refuse to condemn atrocities carried out by Israel, but actively support them. That level of extremism is truly awful.



What does Obama have to do with anything, other than Trump and his supporters (most of them in anyways at this point) hate him as he is African American? Its very odd to keep bringing him up, and I can only come to one conclusion really.

You can't seem to make up your mind. Trump expelled too many Russians, now you're saying it was meaningless. You're all over the shop here mate.

Let me help you out here.

Members of ISIS are ISIS
Members of Al Qaeda are Al Qaeda
Members of Hamas are Hamas.

I know some on here seem to have a penchant for terrorist groups, specifically ones that target Israel. I mean if ISIS were rushing Israel's border you'd be here doing their bidding..."well, they were unarmed ISIS...I mean, some had knives and molotovs for resistance...but basically they were civilians"

Give over pal. If a hostile entity is rushing a border in a war zone, they get taken down. Not asked for ID like they're trying to enter a nightclub.

State of you.

26000 Elephants

Giuliani:: "Yey! Mueller says he cant indict prez Trunp!"

Everyone: "Mueller concludes he needs to indict the President of the United States"

Is this good for Trump?

Quin_Dub

Up the standard of posting - Now.

Thank you.

NKante

26000 Elephants wrote: »

People in the ME hate *America* - they really dont care who is in charge this week.

It's more nuanced than that. Obama was utterly detested in Egypt for helping to usher in the Muslim Brotherhood.

Detested in all the Gulf states including Saudi.

Even middle of the road Jordan couldn't wait for Obama to leave.

Most Israelis & Arabs didn't appreciate Obama handing Iran regional hegemony.

The M.E had a party when he left.

Trump is quite popular with M.E governments except Iran.

Zubeneschamali

NKante wrote: »

Trump is quite popular with M.E governments except Iran.

Certainly popular with the Qataris, they liked him so much they bought him.

Captain Obvious

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Certainly popular with the Qataris, they liked him so much they bought him.

And the Saudis, the people responsible for the most deadly terrorist attack on the US. Trump is desperate to get a weapons deal with them. Likely he hopes they will do some of the dirty work in Iran.

NKante

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Certainly popular with the Qataris, they liked him so much they bought him.

I think that's Clinton you're on about. She was Qatar's pet. They donated to her 'foundation' quite regularly I believe.

Hurrache

NKante wrote: »

I think that's Clinton you're on about. She was Qatar's pet. They donated to her 'foundation' quite regularly I believe.

You may have missed an important revelation this week.

Leroy42

NKante wrote: »

It's more nuanced than that. Obama was utterly detested in Egypt for helping to usher in the Muslim Brotherhood.

Detested in all the Gulf states including Saudi.

Even middle of the road Jordan couldn't wait for Obama to leave.

Most Israelis & Arabs didn't appreciate Obama handing Iran regional hegemony.

The M.E had a party when he left.

Trump is quite popular with M.E governments except Iran.

And why do you think that was? (if we take as true, which I'm not sure that we can).

Can you point to any difference in policy that Trump has initiated that has lead to this great reversal of feeling towards the US?

Also, do you think that these 'wins' in the ME have been worth the fights that he has had with NATO, Merkel, the UK, Europe, Mexico?

VinLieger

NKante wrote: »

I think that's Clinton you're on about. She was Qatar's pet. They donated to her 'foundation' quite regularly I believe.

Yup nothing to see here move along, lock her up, her emails etc etc

Ohh wait

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trumps-personal-attorney-solicited-1-million-from-government-of-qatar/2018/05/16/e787e716-592c-11e8-858f-12becb4d6067_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.723d0c840e64

Leroy42

A good summation of the changing narrative on Russian collusion (taken from @Aaronbake tweet which I can't link)

1. No communication with Russia
2 No Communication we are aware of
3. No planned communication
4. Planned meetings but not regarding intel or campaign
5. It was regarding the campaign and HC but the information wasn't much
6. Collusion isn't a crime, which we didn't do, but if we did it doesn't matter
7. The intel we got wasn't used anyway

MarinersBlues

NKante wrote: »

Oh no, a row with a useless Mayor - WWIII!!

An unnecessary public row with a very respected leader of a close ally. Which is relevant when discussing foreign policy.

NKante wrote: »

Oh no, a row with T-May, how devastating for the world

An unnecessary public row with a very respected leader of a close ally. Which is relevant when discussing foreign policy.

NKante wrote: »

Obama actually went out of his way to help Israel's enemies

I fail to see the relevance to my post about Trump's foreign policy.

NKante wrote: »

Him expelling Russian diplomats was to support the UK, how does that factor in with rowing with T-May?

It shows that he can't grasp what is going on in the world around him and that he is capable of completely overshooting his intended targets.

NKante wrote: »

He's right on the Iran deal. Corrupt EU just want Iran deals, he's wanting a Nuke-free Iran.

Nonsense. Engaging with other countries on a number of different fronts, economically, socially, and culturally is the most effective way to build mutual understanding and in the long run reduce the threat they pose.

NKante wrote: »

Israeli forces killed mostly Hamas/Islamic Jihad men, by palestinians' own admission.

I cannot view the video. Every other country in the world has reacted with disgust to the conduct of the IDF. If you cannot see the problem with shooting live ammo into crowds of men, women and children then we will have to park this part of the conversation.
Apart from the morals, from a purely military strategy point of view read up on Bloody Sunday and how that escalated the Troubles in NI.

NKante wrote: »

Sorry pal. Obama's terrible policies with N.Korea, Syria and Iran were catastrophic. Everyone bar Iran hated Obama in the Middle East.

I fail to see the relevance to my post about Trump's foreign policy.

I do, however, see the irony of holding up a proposed deal with NK that has not been even close to agreed on (they haven't even agreed to talk about it) or implemented as an achievement, while in the same post celebrating the reneging on an identical deal with Iran.

NKante

Leroy42 wrote: »

And why do you think that was? (if we take as true, which I'm not sure that we can).

Can you point to any difference in policy that Trump has initiated that has lead to this great reversal of feeling towards the US?

Also, do you think that these 'wins' in the ME have been worth the fights that he has had with NATO, Merkel, the UK, Europe, Mexico?

Obama was terribly naive about foreign policy in general. Remember he fell out with a few allies too. The UK (Churchill bust, "back of the queue" threat) had a run in with India over him snubbing them in favour of Pakistan.

But he just didn't understand the region and the Iranians easily fooled him into seeing them as the solution to the M.E instead of being one of the main problems.

I mean you'd have to be really stupid to believe the Muslim Brotherhood were good news for Egypt. Yet in he went full steam ahead to help usher them in. Thank goodness the Egyptian people took it upon themselves to undo that damage and get rid of Obama's MB mates.

He portrayed weakness which the Arabs generally hate.

Trump comes in. Totally unpredictable which makes him seemingly dangerous. Immediately that puts everyone on notice. He actually gave a great speech in Saudi after he became president. It was straight from the hip but actually had substance, not that empty grovelling tripe Obama came out with in his Cairo speech.

Trump is a loose cannon. He could still kill us all, or he could end up stumbling his way into negotiating a Korean peace and other possible achievements. I think the latter will happen and maybe in the ME too. He's working on some Israel/Pal peace which apparently is different to other proposals.