Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

everlast75

Sonics2k wrote: »

Giuliani’s Law Firm Undercuts His Statements as They Part Ways

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-resigns-law-firm-greenberg-traurig.html

Guiliani looks to still be Trumps lawyer, for now.

It is a possibility that his partners calles him in to enquire what he knew and when, and that info made it impossible for him to stay.

It is also entirely possible that he is enjoying the spotlight much more than a notional boring silent partner type gig in his practice.

Either way, anyone that Trump affiliates himself with get get fired, resign (or get arrested).. so it won't end well for him

robinph

The tone of the quote from Gulianai just shows they are trying their best to make things into a fight.

“You’ve gotta realize the firm is 2,000 lawyers,” Mr. Giuliani said, “some of them big supporters of the president, some of them enemies of the president.”

You are either with him or against him in the Trump version of politics, where really it should be trying to get both sides to work together to find a solution that works for the most people. The opposite of a supporter isn't an enemy, they are just not a supporter. The presidents job is to work in the best interests of all, not make a fight out of it.

jooksavage

The more I read about Essential Consulting LLC, the worse it gets. There is nothing coming out to explain away or mitigate any of this. One thing struck me straight away - WHY THE HELL did Cohen accept all those payments via. the same LLC that he used for the hush-money payment to SD? If he hadn't been so lazy or stupid, Michael Avenatti wouldn't be talking about it all day on cable news. God alone knows what else he'll dig out when he starts the discovery process.

The AT&T and Novartis payments look like boring old, though still illegal, pay-to-play. The interesting one here is Columbus Nova. In spite of all their denials about Russian connections, specifically to sanctioned oligarch Viktor Vekselberg, his (coincidentally offline) Renova Group website lists them as a subsidiary less than 12 months ago: https://web.archive.org/web/20170623194844/http://www.renova.ru/en/structure/company/detail/130/. Vekselberg's cousin Andrew Intrater is CN's CEO and Andrew's brother Frederick registered 8 alt right-themed domain names in 2016 using the company email address... Wonder why Devin Nunes and the other clowns on the House Intelligence Committee missed all this when they dashed off their report.

Enthralling as all of this is, I'm a little concerned that when Mueller does wrap up his investigation, all of the long-exploded bombshells like this and the Trump Tower meeting will have lost the cumulative effect that they would have if conveyed together for the first time in an official report.

Captain Obvious

I have to say I'm amazed Trump and the GOP have any support from military personnel after some of their actions. The recent attacks on McCain are despicable.

wes

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I have to say I'm amazed Trump and the GOP have any support from military personnel after some of their actions. The recent attacks on McCain are despicable.

The Republicans love veterans, as long as they agree with them. The amount of hatred and vitriol they will aim at them the moment they disagree is a sight to behold. They use veterans as props and if they go off message they discard them.

everlast75

jooksavage wrote: »

Enthralling as all of this is, I'm a little concerned that when Mueller does wrap up his investigation, all of the long-exploded bombshells like this and the Trump Tower meeting will have lost the cumulative effect that they would have if conveyed together for the first time in an official report.

I take your point but I think it will essentially boil down to the following simple arithmetic.

If the Dems control both houses, DJT will be impeached.

If they don't, he won't.

Look at Nunes et al. It is clear, by their behaviour, that they are compromised - it's the only reasonable explanation. They will look the other way.

The American public voted him in (technically) - they should be the one to turf him out via the mid-terms.

The only other way, and it is less likely, that this plays out is that there is video or audio recordings of Trump admitting to a serious crime. The Reps fear him but at some point (which should have been way before now) he will become toxic and as a group, they will oust him.

markodaly

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

In practice it’s an imperial presidency that invades as it sees fit.

When was the last time this happened, that a POTUS invaded a country without the approval of Congress.

Answers on a postcard please.

jobbridge4life

markodaly wrote: »

When was the last time this happened, that a POTUS invaded a country without the approval of Congress.

Answers on a postcard please.

Not 100% it was the last time, but Grenada.

jobbridge4life

markodaly wrote: »

Like when he withdrew from TPP, TTIP, The Paris Accords? They are all along the same vien, an isolationist America First policy.

I note your failure to engage (again) with the question actually asked. Your reference to other agreements from which Trump has withdrawn, is ultimately immaterial to that question however since you have mentioned them I'd question how much these can be truly seen as moves towards real isolationism. Trump has suggested on several occassions negotiating better deals to replace all of the ones he has left. In some situations he favours moving away from multilateralism certaintly but has spoken favourably of bilaterial agreements, not exactly isolationism is it?

markodaly wrote: »

Those wishing for war will be left disappointed.

This is a statement you have made repeatedly, and been repeatedly challenged to point out those 'wishing for war'. A rather hysterical statement for someone referring to others as Helen Lovejoys.

markodaly wrote: »

I never mentioned anything about income as the term working class is never related to Income, it is related to the type of work people do.



That type of work is one where you need not to have a college degree. Trades people are regarded as working class, but they can earn a great wage, would be one example.

The mere fact that he won the old rust belt, is a clear indication on where the swing was. Ironically, these are states that Sanders did very well in as well during the Democratic primary. These are people who wanted something different, not more of the same in Bush or Clinton.

There was no major swing of those with income towards Trump, as numbers look similar to those that voted for Romney and McCain as simply they are not enough of these people to push him over the line. So you have to look at those that changed their vote and they were the working class people of the rust belt states.




Again, look at the swing and the level of education of the voters behind the swing. If you want to move goal posts, fine by me but I wont be playing the whack a mole with you.

My point, clearly expressed, was that Trump won the better off vote, Hilary won the lower income segements. I have not made another claim so there is no goal post shifting, at least not from me. All the evidence you have provided confirms this, so again thanks for that.

markodaly wrote: »

Nate Silver would know a thing or two about elections but I am sure you know better. Did you do a jobbridge as a pollster?




Its is OK, to admit you are wrong.

You mean like Nate Silver himself did in relation to Trump?;)

Savant or not I should doubt even Silver would attempt to claim that his analysis was infallible or the last word on Trump's election.

markodaly wrote: »

When did this president and other presidents explicitly commit to war by bypassing congress? Links please!!

It is a point on the division of powers in the US government that is lost on many people. Trump is not Putin or Xi Jinping. He is not a dictator.

As I am 100% correct, a president cannot by himself declare war(or authorised extended military engagements as they are technically known as now). This is just a fact. You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

If Trumps true aim was to launch an Iraq style invasion of Iran, he will HAVE to go through Congress. This is just again a fact.

By your own admission the United States has not declared war since WWII, and yet we all know of the incredible number of wars the USA has participated in since then. You seem at once to want to be technical when it suits and blithe about the facts when it doesn't.

American involvement in Korea was without congressional approval, as was its involvement in Yugoslavia, as was the Bay of Pigs Invasion, as was the invasion of Grenada... and more.

You are now trying to reframe your position and limit it to an 'Iraq style invasion of Iran'. I believe most people's concern is about the potential of unilaterial strikes (something John Bolton, Trump's National Security Advisor has advocated repeatedly) and the consequences and likely esculation resulting. Not even Trump himself would claim to need congressional approval for such action.

jooksavage

NPR reporting that as early as 2014, the FBI had publicly flagged concerns about Viktor Vekselberg (whose subsidiary Columbus Nova paid Michael Cohen 500K). Back then they wrote that his foundation "may be a means for the Russian government to access our nation's sensitive or classified research". Fast forward 4 years and his money has made its way into the pocket of Trump's personal lawyer.

The Republicans who stand by and let this happen are worse than Trump himself. George Will wrote a piece about Mike Pence yesterday: "Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic. Pence is what he has chosen to be, which is horrifying." You could extend that description for the majority of sitting Republicans today.

everlast75

So, An attorney requests a protective order over any files seized from Michael Cohen about his discussions with Cohen “concerning two women that were sexually victimized by Mr. Schneiderman.”

Link to letter here:

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/994956154991206401

Someone else can try help me understand here, but as I read it, he wants all docs regarding his "clients" to be preserved.
He claims that two women came to him separately and he advised them "NOT" to do anything about it, because of the AG and the political forces that would come out against them.
He then says that when the 2nd woman comes to him, he thinks that Donald F***ing Trump(?) should be the guy that should be told, and therefore contacts Cohen? That smells to me.
Next thing you know, the story breaks about the (Dem) AG and he is outted?

jooksavage

everlast75 wrote: »

So, An attorney requests a protective order over any files seized from Michael Cohen about his discussions with Cohen “concerning two women that were sexually victimized by Mr. Schneiderman.”

Link to letter here:

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/994956154991206401

Someone else can try help me understand here, but as I read it, he wants all docs regarding his "clients" to be preserved.
He claims that two women came to him separately and he advised them "NOT" to do anything about it, because of the AG and the political forces that would come out against them.
He then says that when the 2nd woman comes to him, he thinks that Donald F***ing Trump(?) should be the guy that should be told, and therefore contacts Cohen? That smells to me.
Next thing you know, the story breaks about the (Dem) AG and he is outted?

Holy crap, this Peter Gleason guy sounds like one sketchy lawyer. Don't report this, bring it straight to the muck-racker in chief. Trump must be gutted that he didn't get a chance to use this before Schneiderman got the boot.

MadYaker

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think the danger is that The Donald isn't the zenith, that he is only the start of a greater polarisation.

This what I have been thinking too. Does the US seem more or less polarazied now than when he took office? I think I know the answer. The only hope is for the dems to regain control over the house and senate this year and then for a dem to be elected to the WH in 2020. But not some out and out lefty like sanders as that would just alienate the conservatives even more. The far right seems to have total control of the GOP these days so the only hope is for the dems to nominate someone who can appeal to moderate conservative voters who are wavering in their support of trump or who don't support Trump and obviously also appeal to normal democrats. That might see some sanity restored to American politics. But who that might be I have no idea. And in the meantime Trump has done a lot of damage and will likely do more.

Itssoeasy

MadYaker wrote: »

This what I have been thinking too. Does the US seem more or less polarazied now than when he took office? I think I know the answer. The only hope is for the dems to regain control over the house and senate this year and then for a dem to be elected to the WH in 2020. But not some out and out lefty like sanders as that would just alienate the conservatives even more. The far right seems to have total control of the GOP these days so the only hope is for the dems to nominate someone who can appeal to moderate conservative voters who are wavering in their support of trump or who don't support Trump and obviously also appeal to normal democrats. That might see some sanity restored to American politics. But who that might be I have no idea. And in the meantime Trump has done a lot of damage and will likely do more.

Conor lamb in Pennsylvania showed the democrats the game plan on how to win in a general election. Instead of the dems candidates trying to fit one perceived opinion of the Democratic Party and it's to play the ball as it lies so to speak. Conor lamb campaigned like a moderate republican in democratic clothing.

MadYaker

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Conor lamb in Pennsylvania showed the democrats the game plan on how to win in a general election. Instead of the dems candidates trying to fit one perceived opinion of the Democratic Party and it's to play the ball as it lies so to speak. Conor lamb campaigned like a moderate republican in democratic clothing.

I was going to use him as an example but id forgotten his name and wasn't arsed googling. That's the course of action they need to pursue in order to shrink the chasm between the 2 sides. I think they'd be better off doing away with the 2 party system altogether but thats for a different thread. I don't see any likely candidates among the dems yet though.

Water John

Kate Boldaun CNN, is one pissed off woman tonight. The denigration of unskilled immigrants and the attack, sick joke about John McCain, have her spitting fire.

Mumha

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I have to say I'm amazed Trump and the GOP have any support from military personnel after some of their actions. The recent attacks on McCain are despicable.

Despicable definitely, but this is where the Republican Party is, and has been descending to, and Sadler is STILL employed at the WH.

I came across a great tweet earlier, which gives it back to Trump for what he said about McCain.

Mumha

The Republicans/Faux News have finally started to target Avenatti, attacking where he is getting the money to represent Daniels. However, it appears they are too late, it's believed that Avenatti is picking up lots of whistleblowers, tips etc from anti trumpers who now view him as the alternate Mueller.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Kate Boldaun CNN, is one pissed off woman tonight. The denigration of unskilled immigrants and the attack, sick joke about John McCain, have her spitting fire.

Isn't she still on maternity leave ? Ah feck it I didn't know she was back, I was a listener to her state of america podcast. The John McCain stuff is ****ing vile. I mean you can disagree with the guy on policy but the guy has sacrificed more than most for the USA, and especially some of the spineless GOP or Fox news contributors who slate the guy for giving up intelligence(He actually gave the north vietnamese the offensive live of the packers)

Water John

She's back, possibly, twice a week. Never seen her so animated as to how low standards may go (McCain).
Might just be unhappy too with Trump in the her hometown, in Indiana.
I think she's on podcast too.
As one contributor said, McCain has tough skin but what about, his mother, 105 years, his 7 children and grandchildren. Absolutely no class.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

She's back, possibly, twice a week. Never seen her so animated as to how low standards may go (McCain).
Might just be unhappy too with Trump in the her hometown, in Indiana.
I think she's on podcast too.
As one contributor said, McCain has tough skin but what about, his mother, 105 years, his 7 children and grandchildren. Absolutely no class.

Oh she's from Indiana ? Ah well then okay that might explain that problem then. The attacks on John McCain has been classless as you say. I actually watched his concession speech from 2008 back tonight, and for someone who lost he won by giving an extremely gracious speech.

I know the prognosis wasn't good for Senator McCain but it seems like it's a case of when not if now which is very sad. I've had grandparents die suddenly and not so suddenly, and the ones who were sick for a few day before dying didn't make it any easier.

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Oh she's from Indiana ? Ah well then okay that might explain that problem then. The attacks on John McCain has been classless as you say. I actually watched his concession speech from 2008 back tonight, and for someone who lost he won by giving an extremely gracious speech.

I know the prognosis wasn't good for Senator McCain but it seems like it's a case of when not if now which is very sad. I've had grandparents die suddenly and not so suddenly, and the ones who were sick for a few day before dying didn't make it any easier.

It depressed me how much McCain went full GOP during that campaign but there can be little doubt that he's a principled and decent man and he showed that in his concession speech. The stuff said about him lately is absolutely disgusting.

markodaly

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Your reference to other agreements from which Trump has withdrawn, is ultimately immaterial to that question

Sure, just ignore all context and the bigger picture as if trying to win some political point.

I have not made another claim so there is no goal post shifting, at least not from me.

You said that he didn't win the working class when by definition, he did. Again, look at the swing and the states he won. Do you think the richer guys in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania is what won it for him at the end? Where did the swing come from?

Or are you going to respond with another reductio ad absurdum comment.



You mean like Nate Silver himself did in relation to Trump?;)

Savant or not I should doubt even Silver would attempt to claim that his analysis was infallible or the last word on Trump's election.

By your own admission the United States has not declared war since WWII, and yet we all know of the incredible number of wars the USA has participated in since then.

All approved by Congress

American involvement in Korea was without congressional approval,

Part of a UN security resolution actually, which is much harder to get than Congressional Approval. Never going to happen for an invasion of Iran.

as was its involvement in Yugoslavia,

That was a NATO, not America.

as was the Bay of Pigs Invasion,

That was a CIA led operation involving Cuban exiles. No American ground forces were used.

as was the invasion of Grenada...

Ah, yes. Mighty Grenada. The one no one remembers as its so small and insignificant.

and more.

they were??

You are now trying to reframe your position and limit it to an 'Iraq style invasion of Iran'.

Not at all, I do not think there will be any invasion or war with Iran. You are others think there will be. It is up to you to lay out your predictions. You think this will mean a war with Iran, do you not? If not, what is your point exactly?

everlast75

By way of update, the designate to evaluate what is privileged or not is flying along in the SDNY case involving Cohen.
The matter is back in before the court on the 24th may and the first tranche of docs has been clarified.
Cohen just filled a motion trying to stop Avenatti appearing.
Avenetti has until the 17th of may to file papers to establish a right to be heard.
Must be some reason why Cohen doesn't want him there, therefore i hope Avenatti succeeds with his attempt

So let me get this straight.. An aide said McCain doesn't matter because he'll die, and the left explodes? The same left that was terrified of Trump during the election because of the supreme court judges who were going to die?

Hypocrites to the last.

B0jangles

edit: n/m not worth it

B0jangles

B0jangles wrote: »

I do not think you have succeed in 'getting this straight' but if you keep trying you might get there one day.

Absolutely amazing.

I'm glad you're so diligent in training for 2020. It will definitely win people to your cause.

blackwave

everlast75 wrote: »

By way of update, the designate to evaluate what is privileged or not is flying along in the SDNY case involving Cohen.
The matter is back in before the court on the 24th may and the first tranche of docs has been clarified.
Cohen just filled a motion trying to stop Avenatti appearing.
Avenetti has until the 17th of may to file papers to establish a right to be heard.
Must be some reason why Cohen doesn't want him there, therefore i hope Avenatti succeeds with his attempt

Probably because he knows Avenetti is too slick for him and that Avenetti seems to know far more than he has released this far about Cohen.

Christy42

Deleted User wrote: »

So let me get this straight.. An aide said McCain doesn't matter because he'll die, and the left explodes? The same left that was terrified of Trump during the election because of the supreme court judges who were going to die?

Hypocrites to the last.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

The issue is not saying McCain will die soon. This unfortunate fact has been mentioned here several times already. The issue would be saying that someone is pointless because they are sick which is a horrible way to dismiss someone's opinion.

Fair enough.