Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Wanderer78

looks like ive triggered some in here, thats a good sign! thank god folks like yourselves arent within an arses roar of government, fighter jets are not peace keeping machines folks, theyre designed to maim and kill, period. lets grow up and try do as much as possible to prevent their use in the first place, by using this money to create critical societal needs, and let the war games just be for the real kids

feckwunker

Wanderer78 wrote: »

it actually doesnt really, because its not like a private sector business, having a functioning health care system is a critical economic and societal need, as not having one, causes major economic shocks such as lockdowns etc!

You're such an idiot it hurts my brain to comprehend that you exist.

Gary kk

Wanderer78 wrote: »

looks like ive triggered some in here, thats a good sign! thank god folks like yourselves arent within an arses roar of government, fighter jets are not peace keeping machines folks, theyre designed to maim and kill, period. lets grow up and try do as much as possible to prevent their use in the first place, by using this money to create critical societal needs, and let the war games just be for the real kids

I think you will find this thread is about policing Irish air space with interceptors not ground attack jets.

blindsider

Wanderer78 wrote: »

looks like ive triggered some in here, thats a good sign! thank god folks like yourselves arent within an arses roar of government, fighter jets are not peace keeping machines folks, theyre designed to maim and kill, period. lets grow up and try do as much as possible to prevent their use in the first place, by using this money to create critical societal needs, and let the war games just be for the real kids

Try telling that to the government who regularly fly strategic bombers around our coast - with the transponder switched off - to see what reaction they can get.

Australia had a cyber attack last week which took out TV.

Do you know how many underseas communications cables pass through our waters? If someone decied to test their resilience, we'd be in some pickle!

I'm not suggesting we spend billions on a war-mongering army, but at least let's have the basic capacity to defend ourselves. Austria, Sweden and Finland are neutral, non-aligned countries - we could learn something from them.

https://www.mobihealthnews.com/news/emea/helsinkis-brand-new-childrens-hospital-case-study-patient-centric-design

€170m for a world-class Children's Hospital - how much will ours cost? €2bn?
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0209/1196082-childrens-hospital-pac/

Let's re-think where the problems and inefficiencies are!

Notmything

Wanderer78 wrote: »

looks like ive triggered some in here, thats a good sign! thank god folks like yourselves arent within an arses roar of government, fighter jets are not peace keeping machines folks, theyre designed to maim and kill, period. lets grow up and try do as much as possible to prevent their use in the first place, by using this money to create critical societal needs, and let the war games just be for the real kids

You do realise that the rifles soldiers carry fire bullets not fluffy balls of cotton, That the apcs/ifv are also designed for one purpose and thats not to deliver flowesrs.

Grimscribe

Wanderer78 wrote: »

looks like ive triggered some in here, thats a good sign! thank god folks like yourselves arent within an arses roar of government, fighter jets are not peace keeping machines folks, theyre designed to maim and kill, period. lets grow up and try do as much as possible to prevent their use in the first place, by using this money to create critical societal needs, and let the war games just be for the real kids

So what do you say we do in the event some unfriendly lads with flying death machines (designed to maim and kill) start maiming and killing over here? Do we make them a pot of tea and tell them how much we're spending on healthcare to try make them jealous?
This might come as a shock but adequately defending a country from unfriendly lads may require maiming and killing, or so I've heard

ohnonotgmail

Grimscribe wrote: »

So what do you say we do in the event some unfriendly lads with flying death machines (designed to maim and kill) start maiming and killing over here? Do we make them a pot of tea and tell them how much we're spending on healthcare to try make them jealous?
This might come as a shock but adequately defending a country from unfriendly lads may require maiming and killing, or so I've heard

Nobody with the force projection capabilities to start "maiming and kill over here" would be the slightest bit worried by the number of fighters we could procure.

source

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nobody with the force projection capabilities to start "maiming and kill over here" would be the slightest bit worried by the number of fighters we could procure.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't provide our services with the correct tools to do their job.

Grimscribe

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nobody with the force projection capabilities to start "maiming and kill over here" would be the slightest bit worried by the number of fighters we could procure.

You can use this same logic to argue against even having a military. Why bother even putting up a fight if someone bigger will be able beat you anyways? Obviously it doesn't carry much weight since just about every country has a military and most of those are capable of defending their airspace

1o059k7ewrqj3n

The Typhoons would be excellent but I’d be pessimistic about it ever happening. Sometimes I think the reason **** all gets spent on defence in Ireland is because it can’t get funnelled to someone’s mate, family or business connection to make an exorbitant profit off - most of the equipment/procurement needs to come from outside of Ireland.

ohnonotgmail

Grimscribe wrote: »

You can use this same logic to argue against even having a military. Why bother even putting up a fight if someone bigger will be able beat you anyways? Obviously it doesn't carry much weight since just about every country has a military and most of those are capable of defending their airspace

you're right, you can.

Dohvolle

Steyr 556 wrote: »

The Typhoons would be excellent but I’d be pessimistic about it ever happening. Sometimes I think the reason **** all gets spent on defence in Ireland is because it can’t get funnelled to someone’s mate, family or business connection to make an exorbitant profit off - most of the equipment/procurement needs to come from outside of Ireland.

The IDA for years have had a policy of not supporting military industry. As a result some fantastic Irish businesses who manufacture for the military have had to go elsewhere to expand. Kentree built the original EOD Robot. They sold up to a Multinational, Patents and all.
Timoney built 12 armoured vehicles for the Irish Army but had to go overseas to build the majority of their Vehicles. The Australian Army Bushmaster APC is a Timoney Design.
If the IDA changed their policy tomorrow they would discover a wealth of cottage industry keen to get a foothold in the Military Industrial complex. (you would be surprised how much Irish based Industry has military end-users.)

Manic Moran

feckwunker wrote: »

You're such an idiot it hurts my brain to comprehend that you exist.

[Mod]I'm sure you can find a more... diplomatic... way of expressing your feelings without crossing over to the wrong side of the forum rules.

Attack the posts or the ideas, not the poster.
[/Mod]

sparky42

The Typhoon T1's would be a brutal money pit to be fair, Austria is selling off theirs and starting a replacement program due to operating costs and sustaining them, and for a neutral nation they still spend more than us. So even if they were giving the T1s away I'd avoid them, particularly as we have no idea of their material state. It's the same for the RAF tossing the C130's, from other websites, a core reason is they need their Wing boxes replaced within the next 10 years.

As to the argument about how everything else needs money first, it's an utterly false argument, the HSE for example could have the entire national budget thrown at it and they would be back before the end of the year asking for more. Same for housing, the issues there just won't be fixed by throwing money at it, there's systemic issues there.

Again, 25 years ago we spent over 1% on GDP when we as a nation were utterly poor compared to what we are now, its not impossible or unsustainable.

Steyr 556

Steyr 556 wrote: »

The Typhoons would be excellent but I’d be pessimistic about it ever happening. Sometimes I think the reason **** all gets spent on defence in Ireland is because it can’t get funnelled to someone’s mate, family or business connection to make an exorbitant profit off - most of the equipment/procurement needs to come from outside of Ireland.

Thats a very cynical attitude. It's also right on the button.

Dohvolle

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats a very cynical attitude. It's also right on the button.

Typhoon started out as ECF, then ACA, then EFA, until the UK and germany decided it didn't need to be carrier capable. The French walked away and developed Rafale, a far superior (and prettier) design, leaving the remaining EFA partners stuck with the EAP. By then Germany, Italy and Spain were in up to their armpits and got stuck with it.
Austria have cut their losses, preferring to get rid of the aircraft completely before seeking a replacement.
Exports to the Arab states have been shrouded in suggestions of all sort of bribery. The Saudis actually threatened to buy Rafale if the UK continued to investigate the level of bribery involved. The sooner we divest ourselves of oil and our reliance on those corrupt dust farmers the better.
Belgium, Denmark, Singapore and South Korea all evaluated the type but did not select it, either going with F35 or Rafale instead.

jonnybigwallet

That is that then. May as well bin that idea altogether! Back to the shopping list to find a cheaper alternative...

Dohvolle

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

That is that then. May as well bin that idea altogether! Back to the shopping list to find a cheaper alternative...

If only there was some type of aircraft able to do the Air Policing role in a way that would please everyone.

Psychlops

sparky42 wrote: »

Austria is selling off theirs

Also because of Politics/Bribery, not enough pilots, they fly like once a week. They only have 15 of them.


https://medium.com/war-is-boring/austria-has-no-business-flying-these-high-performance-fighters-e24649385bf3


"The 15 Typhoons rarely fly. And when they do, they carry only a tiny fraction of the weaponry that other Typhoon operators—the U.K., Germany, Spain, Italy and Saudi Arabia—routinely hang on the high-tech fighters.And in stark contrast to other countries—which usually employ twice as many pilots as they have fighters, thus ensuring there’s always someone available to fly a particular plane into battle—the Austrian air force’s payroll is sufficient for just 11 front-line Typhoon pilots and one trainee"

MAULBROOK

Dohvolle wrote: »

If only there was some type of aircraft able to do the Air Policing role in a way that would please everyone.

Sierra Alpha Alpha Bravo

Markcheese

Does anyone know roughly what proportion of pilots would make it through a fast jet course ?
As in how aprox many pilots would an air force have to put through basic pilot training -to get 1 who would be able to qualify on fast jets ...

And do airforces release trained pilots quickly , if they subsequently don't have a role for them -

ohnonotgmail

Markcheese wrote: »

Does anyone know roughly what proportion of pilots would make it through a fast jet course ?
As in how aprox many pilots would an air force have to put through basic pilot training -to get 1 who would be able to qualify on fast jets ...

And do airforces release trained pilots quickly , if they subsequently don't have a role for them -

you can see the pass rates for the RAF here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/451944/20150720-FOI_05642_Aircrew_Stats.pdf

Surprisingly high.

Dohvolle

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you can see the pass rates for the RAF here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/451944/20150720-FOI_05642_Aircrew_Stats.pdf

Surprisingly high.

Based on back in the Meccano days, they were able to screen pilots early on for fast jet-multi engine or rotary wing. Those who didn't make the grade were given non flying roles long before they start costing HM Govt too much. That's what the RAF Regt is for...

MAULBROOK

Get the order in for the PC21's and set them up for SAAB Gripen training, that would be a start.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newssaab-pilatus-join-forces-to-offer-pc-21-aircarft-to-swedish-air-force-4206660/

Sgt. Bilko 09

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Get the order in for the PC21's and set them up for SAAB Gripen training, that would be a start.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newssaab-pilatus-join-forces-to-offer-pc-21-aircarft-to-swedish-air-force-4206660/

If they install a propeller at the front of the gripen then the aer corp may consider it. I can’t see them ever buying a jet of any sort unless its plush for a minister. I thought at the start of last year when our coast was a catwalk for the Russians that maybe they would consider it but looking at there attitude towards the general service and the navy it’s a pipe dream.

ohnonotgmail

Dohvolle wrote: »

Based on back in the Meccano days, they were able to screen pilots early on for fast jet-multi engine or rotary wing. Those who didn't make the grade were given non flying roles long before they start costing HM Govt too much. That's what the RAF Regt is for...

Gate goes up. Gate goes down.

roadmaster

Oh to have the OPW in charge of Defence

Dohvolle

roadmaster wrote: »

Oh to have the OPW in charge of Defence

€60m Each you say? How about we rent them from you instead for 10 years, at €8m per year, and after that we sell them at auction?

roadmaster

Dohvolle wrote: »

€60m Each you say? How about we rent them from you instead for 10 years, at €8m per year, and after that we sell them at auction?

Larry's man was trying not to laugh

newcavanman

Yawlboy wrote: »

But getting back to my original point, the Typhoon would be an excellent choice for air defence fighter. Reckon the UK would let them go very cheaply to us.

A good friend of min is ex RAF and now works for Bae. Hei is closely involved With Typhoon support for the RAF. He says the Tranche Ones are impossible to support and the RAF line crews will be celebrating their retirement. They are almost entirely incompatible with the rest of the fleet.
Frankly i dont ever see an Irish government having the balls or vision to buy fast jets. The only realistic possibility is that we end up with something akin to the Baltic Air Policing mission.. Of course as we won't join NATO, the only possible outcome is an EU mission
That at least might provide a bit of variety, if it was everto happen