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M40 motorway redesignation and demand management system [works ongoing]

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Comments



  • marno21 wrote: »
    TII will push this through alright, they are fully entitled to. It's the objections that will delay it though.

    Any objections to this will show how baseless the objections actually are. This isn't going to affect anyone outside the N40 mainline in any way except for learner drivers, cyclists and pedestrians which really shouldn't be there in the first place.

    Having cyclists cycling across offramps and onramps on the 120km/h N22 Balincollig bypass is lunacy when there should be sufficient cycling facilities on the R608 through Ballincollig. There is no need whatsoever to be on the (hopefully soon to be M22) N22.

    There was a cyclist death on the Ballincollig bypass last year. The cyclist was crossing over an exit and was collided with by a jeep. These roads are too dangerous for cyclists.




  • marno21 wrote: »
    It should be in late 2018/early 2019. I'd imagine there will be a public consultation during which the anti-motorway fruitcake wagon will be out in their droves.
    I don't foresee the type of inflammatory organised resistance we're seeing to the M28. The N40 is long-built, known to be far over-capacity, and every commuter on the road would be delighted to see bicycles, tractors, and slow traffic banned. Moreover, although it would seem like a bad idea to put an additional Mahon exit somewhere in the kilometre between junction 10 and the tunnel, as I believe has been called for recently, motorway designation would not legally prohibit that. Common sense would, of course.

    You also mentioned above that the N22 may also be in line for motorway restrictions - is there anything specific to go on regarding this?




  • I fully understand the rationale for making the existing N40 Cork SRR a motorway but given the substandard junctions at Douglas, could a case not be made for the road to instead be designated an “expressway” with restrictions on certain road users (ie tractors, scooters, bicycles, pedestrians, animals etc)?

    It seems that we in Ireland are very very keen on making nearly every stretch of grade separated DC into a motorway - pretty much the opposite to the case with Britain.

    Thoughts?




  • JupiterKid wrote: »
    I fully understand the rationale for making the existing N40 Cork SRR a motorway but given the substandard junctions at Douglas, could a case not be made for the road to instead be designated an “expressway” with restrictions on certain road users (ie tractors, scooters, bicycles, pedestrians, animals etc)?

    It seems that we in Ireland are very very keen on making nearly every stretch of grade separated DC into a motorway - pretty much the opposite to the case with Britain.

    Thoughts?
    I'm not sure what the distinction between the expressway designation you describe and motorway designation. The N40 scrapes in at motorway standard, because there are divided lanes of traffic, no at-grade junctions, and at least two lanes in each direction. I agree that the low quality Douglas overpass isn't ideal but I don't see why it should prevent motorway restrictions being applied. Would your expressway designation prevent development directly onto the N40? That to me seems another good reason to go for motorway status.

    Plus, I like the blue signs.




  • JupiterKid wrote: »
    It seems that we in Ireland are very very keen on making nearly every stretch of grade separated DC into a motorway - pretty much the opposite to the case with Britain.

    Thoughts?

    We're doing it the right way :)


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  • I'm not sure what the distinction between the expressway designation you describe and motorway designation. The N40 scrapes in at motorway standard, because there are divided lanes of traffic, no at-grade junctions, and at least two lanes in each direction. I agree that the low quality Douglas overpass isn't ideal but I don't see why it should prevent motorway restrictions being applied. Would your expressway designation prevent development directly onto the N40? That to me seems another good reason to go for motorway status.

    Plus, I like the blue signs.
    The term Expressway has different meanings in different jurisdictions. For example if you're driving in the Northeastern United States, you might see the term Expressway used in contrast to Parkway. There, a "Parkway" was part of the car mania of the mid-20th century. Controlled access but of poor engineering spec, Parkways were (and still are) roads roughly equivalent to a bad quality dual carriageway but specifically excluding buses and trucks, which with low bridges etc they cannot handle. You can often see signs in and around New York City - "Trucks, use Expressways, not Parkways". As you can imagine, New York has plenty of both. The US Expressway is roughly equivalent to the Irish Motorway, maybe some like HQDCs.

    I suspect however that the poster is referring to the term as used in the United Kingdom. There, the term Expressway is used to describe a road that has many features of a Motorway, but usually has no hard shoulders. As such, an Expressway has green signs. You don't see development along UK Expressways, either because they are protected by law explicitly or because councils/developers/homebuilders are not idiotic enough to even try.

    I'm actually not a huge fan of UK Expressways because they have no hard shoulder and - so far as my knowledge extends - no restrictions on tractors, cyclists etc but are nevertheless intended for full speed driving. However, I can see the value of creating an Expressway designation in Ireland. If the idea of making a road an Irish Expressway is to make it legally off-limits to development access, then it would be a good way to protect existing dual carriageways that are not (yet) fit to be declared motorways but should be protected from inappropriate development. So the dual carriageway from J13-J17 on the N4 becomes the "North West Expressway", the N1 between Dundalk and the Border becomes the Northern Expressway, and so on for all the dual carriageways.




  • in France the "Voies Express" have a limit of 110km/h and are generally narrower than Autoroutes with more compact junctions, but are still restricted to motorised traffic. They're usually designated with this sign (which is also used on restricted single-carriage roads):

    France_road_sign_C107.svg




  • There was a cyclist death on the Ballincollig bypass last year. The cyclist was crossing over an exit and was collided with by a jeep. These roads are too dangerous for cyclists.

    People driving vehicles are too dangerous for cyclists.




  • People driving vehicles are too dangerous for cyclists.
    Ok, so let us all get on our bikes and ban all cars - I'm sure the Irish economy will do great with all the tiny and fragmented demographic catchment areas - great for business and great if you or your loved one is sick or has a severe disability!!!

    Get Real!




  • Middle Man wrote: »
    Ok, so let us all get on our bikes and ban all cars!
    That seems an odd conclusion to draw from a simple statement that the roads are a dangerous place for cyclists.


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  • Middle Man wrote: »
    Ok, so let us all get on our bikes and ban all cars - I'm sure the Irish economy will do great with all the tiny and fragmented demographic catchment areas - great for business and great if you or your loved one is sick or has a severe disability!!!

    Get Real!

    That was a ridiculous comment.




  • loyatemu wrote: »
    in France the "Voies Express" have a limit of 110km/h and are generally narrower than Autoroutes with more compact junctions, but are still restricted to motorised traffic. They're usually designated with this sign (which is also used on restricted single-carriage roads):

    France_road_sign_C107.svg

    In Poland we have expressways as well with same sign

    DSC_0751m.jpg


    Anyway, I'm wonder if there is any plans to put a toll on SRR? With motorway it might be much easier now :)




  • spacetweek wrote: »
    That was a ridiculous comment.
    It was an intentionally ridiculous reply to an idiotic statement, blaming all motorists for an accident caused by a cyclist on what is effectively an Expressway.




  • SeanW wrote: »
    It was an intentionally ridiculous reply to an idiotic statement, blaming all motorists for an accident caused by a cyclist on what is effectively an Expressway.

    No it wasn't, he was serious.




  • I noticed on the N40 now just east of the Kinsale Road Roundabout there is a portable VMS sign displaying "Little Island Jct 7 mins". Looks like TII are trialling this in advance of erecting permanent VMS signs on the route. These will be incredibly handy for crashes and tunnel closures.




  • I saw one of them at Little Island too the other day. Its just a VMS, nothing on the scale of the M50 ones, but I guess it'll do the job.




  • I saw one of them at Little Island too the other day. Its just a VMS, nothing on the scale of the M50 ones, but I guess it'll do the job.

    Something on that scale is on the way over the next few years.. TII are taking the M40 very seriously




  • N40/Dunkettle ITS Study, N40 Motorway Reclassification, TEN-T Route Study:
    An allocation of €400,000 is available in 2018 between these three projects. WS Atkins has
    been appointed to investigate and report on the N40/Dunkettle ITS Study and the N40
    Motorway Reclassification. Procurement of a Consultant for the TEN-T Route Study is
    underway. Intelligent Transport System (ITS) Ducting is being installed on all approaches to
    Dunkettle Interchange

    From the council.




  • What exactly is the point of putting anything near the Dunkettle Interchange when all of that is about to be ripped up to build grade separation?




  • SeanW wrote: »
    What exactly is the point of putting anything near the Dunkettle Interchange when all of that is about to be ripped up to build grade separation?
    It's actually part of the Dunkettle Interchange upgrade. VMS signage will be erected on approaches to the Interchange to notify drivers of any relevant information in relation to the upgrade (lane closures/reduced speed limits/chicanes/new road layouts etc)

    The VMS will remain in place after the upgrade as part of the M40 ITS system.


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  • 300 million journeys on the N40 last year. For a city the size of Cork that is astounding

    http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/300-million-cars-on-South-Ring-Road-in-one-year-300a5809-4f7a-49c5-b063-60adca8f5c6c-ds




  • marno21 wrote: »
    300 million journeys on the N40 last year. For a city the size of Cork that is astounding

    http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/300-million-cars-on-South-Ring-Road-in-one-year-300a5809-4f7a-49c5-b063-60adca8f5c6c-ds

    That's a typo. The report from TTI says 0.3 billion km travelled on the road in 2017 and whoever wrote the article misconstrued this. The report indicates that between 80 to 85 thousand are typically using the road daily which would give an annual figure of around 30 million cars. The highest daily count was 21st of December when 103,578 was recorded between Kinsale road and Douglas. Still very impressive numbers.

    http://www.tii.ie/tii-library/strategic-planning/nra-road-network-indicators/TII-National-Roads-Network-Indicators-2017.pdf

    Edit: Echo have corrected the error




  • zetalambda wrote: »
    That's a typo. The report from TTI says 0.3 billion km travelled on the road in 2017 and whoever wrote the article misconstrued this. The report indicates that between 80 to 85 thousand are typically using the road daily which would give an annual figure of around 30 million cars. The highest daily count was 21st of December when 103,578 was recorded between Kinsale road and Douglas.

    http://www.tii.ie/tii-library/strategic-planning/nra-road-network-indicators/TII-National-Roads-Network-Indicators-2017.pdf

    Edit: Echo have corrected the error

    I did think it was a bit high but with the amount of junction hopping journeys especially around Douglas. 30 million is still high in fairness.

    I hadn't realised the TII network indicators were published either. I'll start a thread on that when I've it read.




  • Very high for a city the size of Cork. The M6 motorway in the UK which you'd use if driving from Liverpool, Manchester or Birmingham towards London carries 40 million a year, only 10 million more than the SRR.




  • Need to add an additional lane and upgrade junctions?




  • Need to add an additional lane and upgrade junctions?
    Not much point to be honest. Three sections of the N40 (J2-J3, J8-J9 & J10-J11) are limited to 2 lanes due to narrow cross section, elevated Douglas flyover & Jack Lynch tunnel respectively. Widening the sections in between wouldn't be of much use as these sections are limited to 2 lanes in either direction.

    Long term solution is the North Ring Road and perhaps an outer link between future M71, existing N71, N27 and M28.




  • marno21 wrote: »

    Long term solution is the North Ring Road and perhaps an outer link between future M71, existing N71, N27 and M28.

    Only true long term solution is to hammer down single occupancy. More lanes/faster moving lanes just induce more motorists and you're back where you were within 3-5yrs.




  • marno21 wrote: »
    Long term solution is the North Ring Road and perhaps an outer link between future M71, existing N71, N27 and M28.
    More like the only solution. If there is no alternative to the tunnel besides going through the city centre, the N/M40 will seize up within a few years.




  • The Douglas flyover could be widened to 3 lanes with a bit of concrete. Will almost certainly be required.


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  • ED E wrote: »
    Only true long term solution is to hammer down single occupancy. More lanes/faster moving lanes just induce more motorists and you're back where you were within 3-5yrs.

    100%, but I was just addressing the comment in relation to the N40 and widening the road. There needs to be a push on rapid transit and bus corridor improvements within Cork.
    More like the only solution. If there is no alternative to the tunnel besides going through the city centre, the N/M40 will seize up within a few years.

    Current policy seems to favour building the M40 NRR from Blarney to Glanmire as part of the M20, e.g. putting more traffic into the tunnel. Tunnel will not be TEN-T compliant post M28 so western arc will likely be progressed then
    The Douglas flyover could be widened to 3 lanes with a bit of concrete. Will almost certainly be required.

    Would be interesting to see the reaction locally given the reaction in Rochestown to widening the Sli Carrigdhoun for the N28.


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