M40 motorway redesignation and demand management system [works ongoing]

EdgeCase

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Douglas flyover could be widened to 3 lanes with a bit of concrete. Will almost certainly be required.

It could be but, it would mean encroaching further into Douglas village. I could see that being resisted quite heavily, although there is very little on the outer edge of it other than a road into Douglas shopping centre and clear ground along Douglas court and the old Douglas mills.
There's no way you could widen it on the other side though, so I would assume you'd have to realign the lanes.

The 2-lane tunnel is also a significant bottleneck.

The volume of traffic on the N40 to me indicates a major lack of public transport.
The road needs to be enahanced a bit, but the key aim should be getting more traffic onto public transit from places like Ballincollig and Carrigaline.
Cork needs some tramlines put into service.

Chris_5339762

The Douglas flyover could be widened... notice that the buildings on the southern side have been built well back. Expensive though.

As for the tunnel, you could easily plop another tube or two down.... filter traffic off the upgraded Dunkettle appropriately and you're sorted.

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The Douglas flyover could be widened... notice that the buildings on the southern side have been built well back. Expensive though.

As for the tunnel, you could easily plop another tube or two down.... filter traffic off the upgraded Dunkettle appropriately and you're sorted.

Be that as it may, I think a Northern Ring (with possibly a Glanmire-Carrigtwohill leg), a M71-M28 outer link and more importantly improved public transport are better ideas than more tunnels for now

Of course with the port moved you could build a Jack Lynch Bridge.

marno21

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-toll-plan-for-Dunkettle-bypass-a572d241-0586-4c02-b93e-2274fece016f-ds

Some updates here on this project from the council.

Des O'Grady should keep his trap shut if he doesn't know what he's talking about. There are no plans to toll the M40, nor is a motorway reclassification a prerequisite to tolling. The N18, N25 and R131 are tolled, none of which are motorways.

marno21

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/free-app-to-alert-drivers-to-traffic-issues-at-corks-dunkettle-interchange-859171.html

TII to publish app to provide drivers with real time information on delays/diversions at the Dunkettle Interchange for the upgrade

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/No-toll-plan-for-Dunkettle-bypass-a572d241-0586-4c02-b93e-2274fece016f-ds

Some updates here on this project from the council.

Des O'Grady should keep his trap shut if he doesn't know what he's talking about. There are no plans to toll the M40, nor is a motorway reclassification a prerequisite to tolling. The N18, N25 and R131 are tolled, none of which are motorways.

All tolling the M40 will do is push traffic back in through the city which is bad enough at rush hour, not to mention with the reintroduction of the Pana car ban on top of it coming back in today.

BikeRacer

SeanW wrote: »

...blaming all motorists for an accident caused by a cyclist on what is effectively an Expressway.

Caused by a cyclist? Complete rubbish.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/driver-gets-suspended-sentence-for-killing-cyclist-in-cork-1.3472915

EdgeCase

Tolling isn't a viable option as there are no alternative routes. It would simply be a money making operation that would cause massive problems on urban streets, residential areas and other minor roads.

I don't think any state body has proposed ir. It's just a rumor that's been circulating and probably an urban myth, at least I hope so!

Updating the N40 to M40 makes a lot of sense as it has identical issues to the M50. It's a distributor motorway / urban ring.

MrDerp

I can see tolling in the long term, on the section of M40 between N22 and M20. This will be the most difficult and expensive piece of the remaining engineering, and would be a good value proposition for commuters and visitors to skip the tunnel and the Douglas flyover.

It would be a good value proposition for commuters in any of the following movements:
- Northside to Ballincollig/Ovens
- N22/Ballincollig to Hollyhill/Little Island/Carrigtohill
- N71 to Hollyhill
- N27/Togher to Hollyhill/Blarney
- Relief flow from entire northside to N27/Airport during a clock-wise crash between Dunkettle and Douglas.
As well as providing a faster full city bypass for N25 and M8 traffic to access the N22.

A PPP would be a good solution to complete the M40 quicker, possibly covering the expense of a tunnel and grade separations from Poulavone through to existing N40, and taking over maintenance of entire N40 a la M50 concession if possible.

alaimacerc

BikeRacer wrote: »

Caused by a cyclist? Complete rubbish.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/driver-gets-suspended-sentence-for-killing-cyclist-in-cork-1.3472915

In the minds of many, cyclists seem to "cause" accidents merely by existing.

I'm also curious as to what's "effectively an expressway". Is this related to something being "practically" a motorway, etc? As in, "fully legal for cyclists to use, but don't like that, so I'll try to imply it's not".

EnzoScifo

alaimacerc wrote: »

In the minds of many, cyclists seem to "cause" accidents merely by existing.

I'm also curious as to what's "effectively an expressway". Is this related to something being "practically" a motorway, etc? As in, "fully legal for cyclists to use, but don't like that, so I'll try to imply it's not".

The speed limit at that point is 120km/h which I would consider extremely dangerous for cyclists.

Geogregor

I'm far from blaming cyclists for accidents but allowing cycling along HQDC is just ludicrous. It is basically asking for troubles. Bicycles should be banned from roads like that, for their own safety. Full stop.

AugustusMinimus

Why is it deemed unsafe for cyclist to cycle in the breakdown lane of a rural motorway while it is deemed safe for them to cycle on the 3 lane section of the N40 without any hard shoulder and some of the heaviest traffic in the state.

It makes literally no sense.

Cork Trucker

I assume as with all motorways,once this is re-designated the M40 then cyclists can no longer travel on it?

marno21

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I assume as with all motorways,once this is re-designated the M40 then cyclists can no longer travel on it?

Indeed. One of the benefits of this exercise, no pedestrians/cyclists on a road not designed or safe for them.

BikeRacer

I'd focus my concerns more on tractors/diggers/teleporters than this anti cycling whataboutery nonsense tbh. Just passed a tractor-trailer in the driving lane on the Ballincollig bypass doing no more than 40kph, far more dangerous than a cyclist in the hard shoulder ever would be.

marno21

BikeRacer wrote: »

I'd focus my concerns more on tractors/diggers/teleporters than this anti cycling whataboutery nonsense tbh. Just passed a tractor-trailer in the driving lane on the Ballincollig bypass doing no more than 40kph, far more dangerous than a cyclist in the hard shoulder ever would be.

Cyclists are already not permitted in the JLT while tractors are. Slow vehicles are also not permitted on motorways but any tractor that can go above 50km/h can. Cyclists on the Ballincollig bypass have to cross on ramps where traffic is entering the dual carraigeway at 120km/h. That is not safe.

Cyclists have no place on dual carriageways, especially 100km/h ones with frequent off ramps and on ramps, and carrying upto 100k vehicles per day, with long stretches of hard shoulder. This isn't "anti cycling whatabotery nonsense".

AugustusMinimus

BikeRacer wrote: »

I'd focus my concerns more on tractors/diggers/teleporters than this anti cycling whataboutery nonsense tbh. Just passed a tractor-trailer in the driving lane on the Ballincollig bypass doing no more than 40kph, far more dangerous than a cyclist in the hard shoulder ever would be.

Having a cyclist on the areas of the SRR without any hard shoulder is lethal.

BikeRacer

marno21 wrote: »

Cyclists are already not permitted in the JLT while tractors are. Slow vehicles are also not permitted on motorways but any tractor that can go above 50km/h can. Cyclists on the Ballincollig bypass have to cross on ramps where traffic is entering the dual carraigeway at 120km/h. That is not safe.

Cyclists have no place on dual carriageways, especially 100km/h ones with frequent off ramps and on ramps, and carrying upto 100k vehicles per day, with long stretches of hard shoulder. This isn't "anti cycling whatabotery nonsense".

The first part of your post you mention the legalities of tractors being allowed to be there, while you go on to to give an opinion why cyclists shouldn't be on N roads, even though legally they are.
Do you not see the contradiction you've made?

Also, they don't "have to cross on ramps where traffic is entering the dual carraigeway at 120km/h.", they can go up the hard shoulder to the roundabout and down the opposite hard shoulder.

marno21

BikeRacer wrote: »

The first part of your post you mention the legalities of tractors being allowed to be there, while you go on to to give an opinion why cyclists shouldn't be on N roads, even though legally they are.
Do you not see the contradiction you've made?

Also, they don't "have to cross on ramps where traffic is entering the dual carraigeway at 120km/h.", they can go up the hard shoulder to the roundabout and down the opposite hard shoulder.

This is my last post on this issue.

Cyclists and tractors are both legally allowed on N roads. This is not a normal N road, it's the busiest N road outside the Greater Dublin Area. The dangers of a tractor being hit vs a bicycle being hit by a car at speed on a busy road, for the occupant, are quite different and this should already be clear to you. In my first post, I was explaining that both bicycles and tractors are allowed legally on the road, but that doesn't mean that they should be there from a safety point of view.

They can go up the off ramp and down the other side but that doesn't mean that they do.

DerMutt

The latest email update on the N40 ITS:

• An Intelligent Transport System is proposed for the N40 Cork South Ring Road area. The system will include closed circuit TV coverage of the road network, permanent electronic Variable Message Signs, provision of real time Journey Time Information etc.
• On completion, the system will allow remote monitoring of the entire network, greatly improve incident response times and the availability of real time Journey Time Information will allow motorists to plan their journeys in advance. More detailed information on this system will be circulated in future updates.
• The area covered will include the N40 itself, approaches to the N40 including N28 Cork/Ringaskiddy road, N27 Cork City to airport road and N71 Cork/Bandon road. The N8, M8 and N25 approaches to the Dunkettle Interchange will also be covered.
• Works to install the necessary communication ducting are already underway. Works to identify ground conditions at the various ITS installation points will be getting underway in the coming days.
• In order to minimise disruption to traffic, virtually all works during this Phase will be carried out under night-time working. We expect these Phase 1 Works to be completed early in December 2018

MrDerp

Good stuff, the VMS will be very helpful in balancing the traffic load. My commute home involves N71-N40-N27 (Link) and it will be a big help to know in advance of issues on the N27, or even on the N40 itself.

They say phase I ready for December, I presume that's just ducting and ground works. No signs ready for Christmas?

EdgeCase

They should go up fairly quickly. The only big civil work is ducting.

marno21

VMS erected just before J10 Mahon on the N40 Westbound last night with "N40 ITS .. EXPECT DELAYS" on it.

Enabling work for the VMS gantries must be imminent.

Kermit.de.frog

No word on actual changing to an M road then?

I take it that is off the table so.

marno21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No word on actual changing to an M road then?

I take it that is off the table so.

Cork County Council and Atkins currently working on the motorway reclassification project. Hopefully will be underway in 2019

kub

marno21 wrote:

Cork County Council and Atkins currently working on the motorway reclassification project. Hopefully will be underway in 2019

I can not understand why it takes so long to replace some road signs from a green background to blue and replace the N on the tarmac with an M.

Or am I missing something?

AugustusMinimus

kub wrote: »

I can not understand why it takes so long to replace some road signs from a green background to blue and replace the N on the tarmac with an M.

Or am I missing something?

A lot of consiltatation required given how many users will resultsntly be banned.

Kermit.de.frog

I don't think the road is up to standard anyway which is why I think it won't happen (or only a small section can be from the tunnel).

This is the problem when planning is short sighted as it routinely is in Ireland.

marno21

kub wrote: »

I can not understand why it takes so long to replace some road signs from a green background to blue and replace the N on the tarmac with an M.

Or am I missing something?

The road needs to be assessed to ensure it meets the criteria for motorway redesignation, and all the paperwork for the redesignation needs to be done. There are some issues that need to be ironed out e.g. Vernon Mount at exit 6.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't think the road is up to standard anyway which is why I think it won't happen (or only a small section can be from the tunnel).

This is the problem when planning is short sighted as it routinely is in Ireland.

There is no "standard" really for motorway. There is a stretch of single carriageway motorway in Limerick. There is a motorway planned in Cork with an exit into a housing estate.

To be fair, when the South Ring originally opened in Cork, there was never anyone who thought it would be carrying in excess of 100k vehicles per day. It was also built by the council who didn't have money to burn.