Calf price chitchat

TooOldBoots

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Calf buying fee 8 euro
Transport 5 euro
Bag of Milk powder 40 euro
Straw 20 euro
Calf ration 100kgs 32 euro
Grass 40 euro
Ration for autumn 20 euro
Vet & mortality 25 euro
Over wintering 100 euro
Selling fee 10 euro
Transport 10 euro

Total cost 310+ price of calf
Because Friesians in general are early calves they can do really good weight gain and they have a better tahn average weight gain compared to some of the AA around. 390 would be a massive weight for a yearling friesian but 350 average is attainable. Weanlings are easy to overwinter and 1kg of ration and silage will leave you with a decent calf. As well weanling make great use of autumn grass witha kg of artion

I'd put that as a very conservative costing. No allowance for labour, fixed costs and expenses such as diesel, esb, slurry insurance etc

Plenty of the fresians wont hit 300kg at year old as they are too tall and narrow. Most of them sell for not more than 1-1.5 euro a kg. I.E 300-425euro.

Rearing calves is a loss making game. I'm always amazed at the amount of new suckers (pardon the pun ) buying them every year

JeffKenna

Having a few pints with a few buddy's in Cork City here. One lad is from Bandon and the first question I asked him was about the calf sales in the mart. Looked at me like I'd two heads.. Amazing how we can be caught up in our bubble.

Bass Reeves

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I'd put that as a very conservative costing. No allowance for labour, fixed costs and expenses such as diesel, esb, slurry insurance etc

Plenty of the fresians wont hit 300kg at year old as they are too tall and narrow. Most of them sell for not more than 1-1.5 euro a kg. I.E 300-425euro.

Rearing calves is a loss making game. I'm always amazed at the amount of new suckers (pardon the pun ) buying them every year

I do not think it is conservative at all. i am allowing 310 euro to bring a calf from 3-4 weeks to a yearling. To take a store fresian from 16/18 months to 28/30months it costs me about 350 euro. Now we can split hairs but what will extra ESB cost on the average drystock farm be. My farm is away from the house the bill is about 35/month or 6 euro/bullock. If the standing charge was already paid for by the house my ESB cost/head would be 1-2 euro/animal.

The reason most Friesian fail to hit the 300kg target is nothing to do with being too narrow or too tall. it down to poor management, calves not getting enough milk and ration for first 12 weeks, then put into a paddock at 8-10 weeks and left there for 2-3 months and maybe not dosed either.

I say my costs are bang on and you could shave 20-50 euro with a bit of efficiency. Slurry cost is included in bale silage cost. Its a fertlizer and goes into that cost just like grass takes fertlizer to grow as well. Problem with most lads is they have not got a clue as to there costs. They add poor preformance to that and then use expensive ration to make up the difference.

I can winter stores for 90c/day. I use no ration only silage made in Late May/Early June with a high DM usually 35% and above. Any expert will tell you what I am doing is wrong but it works.

How do you cost a shed. The accountants way is fixed depreciation over 8 years. In theory all may sheds are depreciated. However if you look at the average modern shed will last 40+ years. My shed cost 43K net after claiming back Vat and grant. it will house 100 cattle +/-10. There fore it costs 430 euro/year over a 40 year life span. For 100 cattle it will cost 4.3 euro/head /year. Labour is what you get paid for.

Most costs such as car, diesel etc in the beef game is more than compensated for by the depreciation on them. That is unless you are driving a diesel guzzling landcruiser.

TooOldBoots

Your figures are still too conservative. You will not buy 3-5 week old friesian calves in any mart in any numbers and if you find them they are costing 50-100 euro more. Instead what you get are 5 to 10 day old small narrow yolks.
A 10 day old calve has to be fed for a further 55 days on milk replacer. At 0.7kg per day * 55 days is 2 bags of replacer. And thats not over feeding them.
There might have been a twist to be made a few years ago but not at today's input costs. Everything has gone up in price while the price of beef has remained stagnant. This system of farming is too dependent on the cheque in the post. As even if your figures were correct you'd need to be rearing a couple of hundred of them to earn anything near the average industrial wage.
Its a mugs game, dairy boys are cashing in, Larry is bent over laughing at it

_Brian

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Your figures are still too conservative. You will not buy 3-5 week old friesian calves in any mart in any numbers and if you find them they are costing 50-100 euro more. Instead what you get are 5 to 10 day old small narrow yolks.
A 10 day old calve has to be fed for a further 55 days on milk replacer. At 0.7kg per day * 55 days is 2 bags of replacer. And thats not over feeding them.
There might have been a twist to be made a few years ago but not at today's input costs. Everything has gone up in price while the price of beef has remained stagnant. This system of farming is too dependent on the cheque in the post. As even if your figures were correct you'd need to be rearing a couple of hundred of them to earn anything near the average industrial wage.
Its a mugs game, dairy boys are cashing in, Larry is bent over laughing at it

I doubt Larry is laughing much more at dairy cross then he is at the majority of suckler stock that are sold at a loss.
Marts jammed with suckler weanlings every autumn selling at below cost of production.

mahoney_j

alps wrote: »

Huge and critical message here....you've experienced the "outside" world..

It would do anyone intent on staying home farming, the power of good, to spend 10 years away at other industries or enterprises...

It's not all a bed of roses in the other side..

Came out of school at 18 wanted to go farming ,dad not ready to hand reigns over went to gurteen got the green cert and gave 2 years working in arrabawn and 9 in proctor and gamble wasn’t happy when I couldn’t go farming but in reality it was best move I made ,dad gave me a say in how things were ran I farmed whenever I could which was most days earned some real money travelled places I’d never of went if I went farming at 18 gained valuable life experience and had a right time for myself I honestly think if I went farming at 18 I’d of resented the farm now I’m farming full time now and after seeing the other side I’m very happy (most of the time )

QA1

bass is on the ball
cost about €300 to get 3 week old to grass the following year and I using avg 1.6 bags of milk

Bass Reeves

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Your figures are still too conservative. You will not buy 3-5 week old friesian calves in any mart in any numbers and if you find them they are costing 50-100 euro more. Instead what you get are 5 to 10 day old small narrow yolks.
A 10 day old calve has to be fed for a further 55 days on milk replacer. At 0.7kg per day * 55 days is 2 bags of replacer. And thats not over feeding them.
There might have been a twist to be made a few years ago but not at today's input costs. Everything has gone up in price while the price of beef has remained stagnant. This system of farming is too dependent on the cheque in the post. As even if your figures were correct you'd need to be rearing a couple of hundred of them to earn anything near the average industrial wage.
Its a mugs game, dairy boys are cashing in, Larry is bent over laughing at it

Most beef farmers are part time now. First off I was off prices of calves and a store sold here. A 390kg Fr store @520 euro is rare as well. Last weeks 5day old calves were not attracting a bid. I somehow get the impression you never reared a buckfed calf and are typical of lads that have never considered the anything except sucklers.

When lads start BSing about labour costs and average industrial wages they usually have no clue of costs of any farming enterprise. There a lad on chit chat that is watching a sucker cows waiting for her to calf since 10pm last night. What is the labour costs for that. You would have 20 suck calves fed twice a day for 3-4 days in the same timeframe.

charolais0153

_Brian wrote: »

I doubt Larry is laughing much more at dairy cross then he is at the majority of suckler stock that are sold at a loss.
Marts jammed with suckler weanlings every autumn selling at below cost of production.

Have u every farmers profit monitor?

TooOldBoots

Can't see why you are getting ratty with me. i'm only saying your costings are too conservative.

Average industrial wage is 35k thats not bs look it up. The reality is lads are earning more now too. Minimum on the building is 160 per day (40k per year)

You stated 1 bag of replacer per calf, no electric costs and no labour value. Now thats what I call BS. But I'm sure your going to tell me how you can feed a little amount of cold milk replacer to a week old calf and it will thrive.
Lets leave it at that, you obviously wearing rose tinted glasses Larry and the farmers journal are handing out

_Brian

charolais0153 wrote: »

Have u every farmers profit monitor?

No but latest reports I saw published showed only 1/3 of suckler farms in profit.

And I see animals being sold at a loss every autumn. Talking to suckler farmers they are all saying the same thing, they are loosing money on every animal out the gate.

Posters criticising rearing calves because in bad years it’s supported by direct payments yet that’s the exact way that suckler farms are surviving. It’s just small minded thinking.

MIKEKC

wrangler wrote: »

First twenty years were very tough, up to 20% interest on loans and the cost of a nursing home for five years, ****ed it up a bit, doing grand now alright.
Ray Mc sharrys subsidies in the nineties turned it around here

Yes the Minister .The suckler premium the best thing ever. He even gave people time to build up numbers'

Bass Reeves

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Can't see why you are getting ratty with me. i'm only saying your costings are too conservative.

Average industrial wage is 35k thats not bs look it up. The reality is lads are earning more now too. Minimum on the building is 160 per day (40k per year)

You stated 1 bag of replacer per calf, no electric costs and no labour value. Now thats what I call BS. But I'm sure your going to tell me how you can feed a little amount of cold milk replacer to a week old calf and it will thrive.
Lets leave it at that, you obviously wearing rose tinted glasses Larry and the farmers journal are handing out

TBH I should not have got ratty with you. However ask any dairy farmer here what it costs to rear a calf and they will have similar figure's to me. Most are rearing heifers with an aim to have them at 360kgs+ by the 1st of April to have them ready for bulling. They have to and do hit that target. A bull would and should have higher weight gain. These are the same calves that lads buy at 3-4 weeks of age and fail to hit 300kgs at this stage of year. The Fr calf is not the problem it is often the way he is treated.

Castlekeeper

Well the good news for the seller is that calf prices are back to last year's levels, (for us, today anyway!) From a bottom of 130 for a Fr M to a top of 345 for a He F, and a range relative inbetween in Kilmallock this morning. (All under 3 weeks of age on ad lib milk).

alps

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Well the good news for the seller is that calf prices are back to last year's levels, (for us, today anyway!) From a bottom of 130 for a Fr M to a top of 345 for a He F, and a range relative inbetween in Kilmallock this morning. (All under 3 weeks of age on ad lib milk).

Great news....good solid mart too

Bass Reeves

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Well the good news for the seller is that calf prices are back to last year's levels, (for us, today anyway!) From a bottom of 130 for a Fr M to a top of 345 for a He F, and a range relative inbetween in Kilmallock this morning. (All under 3 weeks of age on ad lib milk).

It Kilmallock and its a bank holiday Monday the idiots have been left out again I suspect. The lads around the ring all the time are having some craic

Reggie.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It Kilmallock and its a bank holiday Monday the idiots have been left out again I suspect. The lads around the ring all the time are having some craic

Business as usual next week I bet

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

Business as usual next week I bet

Ya think?

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

Ya think?

Better be

Castlekeeper

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It Kilmallock and its a bank holiday Monday the idiots have been left out again I suspect. The lads around the ring all the time are having some craic

Those prices are definitely €30 up on last week. I've a few more for next week so I'll let ye know.

4ever

First time poster. Watch this thread with interest. Was in killmallock today. Was well surprised at some of the prices. Everything not Friesan up €50 I reckon. Can’t understand what these people are thinking.
My question is though is, how do the dealers make money on these sorts. 90% or more of calves seemed to be bought by dealers. Tall narrow angus heifers between 180 and 220. Add thirty more for bulls. They were nice calves but everyone knew they were never going to fill out to much. Do these go to contract rearers for Larry or do lads call to their yards and give another 30 for them again. Madness
These calves were making close to 150 last week Personally don’t see the lift in the trade lasting. Everyone knows that these calves will be available as runners in June for the same money

patsy_mccabe

Probably the bank holiday effect.

Sheep breeder

4ever wrote: »

First time poster. Watch this thread with interest. Was in killmallock today. Was well surprised at some of the prices. Everything not Friesan up €50 I reckon. Can’t understand what these people are thinking.
My question is though is, how do the dealers make money on these sorts. 90% or more of calves seemed to be bought by dealers. Tall narrow angus heifers between 180 and 220. Add thirty more for bulls. They were nice calves but everyone knew they were never going to fill out to much. Do these go to contract rearers for Larry or do lads call to their yards and give another 30 for them again. Madness
These calves were making close to 150 last week Personally don’t see the lift in the trade lasting. Everyone knows that these calves will be available as runners in June for the same money

What was continental heifers making today,

Bullocks

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Probably the bank holiday effect.

I think I talked a few into buying at unbelievable low prices last week

4ever

Sheep breeder wrote: »

What was continental heifers making today,

Very few there. 3 lovely Charlie’s went too late for me to watch them. They were lot 1659 I think. Other than that saw two nice sim’s make around 280
Would be interested to know what the three Charlie’s made

Albert Johnson

I was in Killmallock today for the first time ever, we happened to be coming back from a weekend away so myself and the better half stopped for a look. I can't pass by a mart without curiosity setting in and luckily she's very understanding. It's some setup to be fair and there seemed to be no shortage of stock on offer.

I spent over an hour watching the calf trade and it was definitely better than I had expected going by recent reports. It seemed to be almost all AA, HE and FR calves on offer and they were met with good demand for any reasonable qualify. The poorest of AA and HE heifers cleared over €60 a piece and similar bulls were at least a score dearer. Again FR bulls were at €50+ unless total screws. Having said that there were nearly no Xbreds present apart from one Norwegian Red that made €2 although he was as pointy as any Norwegian peninsula.

Most of the FR on offer were average type calves to be fair with the majority of the poorest calves being AA. I felt that better quality calves especially HE received little of a premium over the average, for example an imo cracking HE month old bull made €195 while directly after a fortnight old very average HE made €180. I seen this trend repeated throughout my time there, the bank holiday probably had an effect as the lunatics took over the asylum to a degree but I still expected to see a much weaker trade for all classes of stock.

Grueller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Most beef farmers are part time now. First off I was off prices of calves and a store sold here. A 390kg Fr store @520 euro is rare as well. Last weeks 5day old calves were not attracting a bid. I somehow get the impression you never reared a buckfed calf and are typical of lads that have never considered the anything except sucklers.

When lads start BSing about labour costs and average industrial wages they usually have no clue of costs of any farming enterprise. There a lad on chit chat that is watching a sucker cows waiting for her to calf since 10pm last night. What is the labour costs for that. You would have 20 suck calves fed twice a day for 3-4 days in the same timeframe.

You're not wrong Bass. She calved after though.

Bass Reeves

Grueller wrote: »

You're not wrong Bass. She calved after though.

Was it a bull or heifer and did it cover the labour cost

Grueller

charolais0153 wrote: »

Have u every farmers profit monitor?

No but Teagasc have the majority and publish the results of all of that data collated into a nice easy to read report with graphs to illustrate to me how thick I am to still be in the game.

Grueller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was it a bull or heifer and did it cover the labour cost

Limousin heifer. Lovely calf to be fair. Good pull though as the mother had took as lame as a duck on the slats and I had left her out to a paddock for her last 3 weeks just not thinking. Calf was way too well fleshed as a result which is not usually the case after my limo bull. A cheap lesson when all ended well.
It will probably never cover the labour costs at anything near minimum wage but calves of the quality of this one always leave a twist here.