Calf price chitchat

Bass Reeves

when you keep cists down by uding grass and silage a friesian will leave as much as anything else. IMO they out preform AA's and with HE breeding heading down tbe easy calving route and calves over priced as well friesian are a better bet if carrying to finish. There main advantage is that they have a good weight gain/ day especially on grass. Disadvantage is if poorly done they are hard to finish. If I was getting 5-6 week old calves for a bit with a hundred euro I take them ahead of 3 week d 300 euro calves

orm0nd

A lot of fr bull calves dumped at sh1t money mid to late march , A couple weeks milk would have paid far better than giving to co op .

Anto_Meath

Bought 5 FR bull calves the other evening off a lad over the road, €80 each (1 of them is only 3 weeks the others are 5 weeks) he wanted them gone and didn't want the hassle of bringing them to the mart encase he missed 1 and afraid of what he would bring home with him. I think they are far better value than HEx, i have bought at €250 (3 for 1) and when killing them in 2 years time the HEx will probably grade an O+ FRs probably O=. So based on current base price Hex killing 370 kgs would come into €1,406 (inc Bonus) and the FR killing 340 kgs would come into €1,272 difference €134 difference at purchases €170. But what I can see from the factory kill sheets lately the O grade covers a multitude.

mahoney_j

orm0nd wrote: »

A lot of fr bull calves dumped at sh1t money mid to late march , A couple weeks milk would have paid far better than giving to co op .

Sold a mix of angus and Hereford calves in nenagh on Tuesday ranging from a set of light twins 12 days old to 23 days old average price 141 euro.twins made 60 euro and fine Hereford bull made 245 euro .was well chuffed

visatorro

orm0nd wrote: »

A lot of fr bull calves dumped at sh1t money mid to late march , A couple weeks milk would have paid far better than giving to co op .

I more or less gave away calves here in March. No regrets either. Closer to a half man show here this spring than one man! Sold to a repeat customer. Got good money for calves in previous years. Sometimes you have to just play the ball that's in front of you! Good money for calves now. I wouldn't begrudge lads that could hold onto calves for better money, I couldn't.

stretch film

visatorro wrote: »

I more or less gave away calves here in March. No regrets either. Closer to a half man show here this spring than one man! Sold to a repeat customer. Got good money for calves in previous years. Sometimes you have to just play the ball that's in front of you! Good money for calves now. I wouldn't begrudge lads that could hold onto calves for better money, I couldn't.

well put, no increase in calf value will pay for the extra accomodation, feed ,bedding labour and risk involved imo

kevthegaff

Sold a bunch of aa mainly heifers for 50 euros the other day week to 10 days lof

Bass Reeves

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Bought 5 FR bull calves the other evening off a lad over the road, €80 each (1 of them is only 3 weeks the others are 5 weeks) he wanted them gone and didn't want the hassle of bringing them to the mart encase he missed 1 and afraid of what he would bring home with him. I think they are far better value than HEx, i have bought at €250 (3 for 1) and when killing them in 2 years time the HEx will probably grade an O+ FRs probably O=. So based on current base price Hex killing 370 kgs would come into €1,406 (inc Bonus) and the FR killing 340 kgs would come into €1,272 difference €134 difference at purchases €170. But what I can see from the factory kill sheets lately the O grade covers a multitude.

I would expect that friesian's will match hereford's kg for kg in weight gain if done the same. Later friesian's tend to be of slightly poorer quality rather than early season ones. However if you are buying 3-6 weeks old friesian's compared to 3 week old hereford's the friesian's will be 10-15 kgs ahead as well as o!der. If both continue with the same weight gain at slaughter I expect the gap to be closer than that. I would expect the friesian's to kill at 355 kgs. However the temptation is to feed the hereford's a bit the second winter and ignore the extra cost. With the hereford's killing 370 kgs@ O+/= not all will make the HE bonus using a 3.9 base they should averages they should gross 1470 euro. The friesian's killing 355 kgs (2/3'O= and 1/3 O-) would!d hit about 1340 euro. A 130 euro difference.
The variable's would be maybe a few friesian's falling into P's and a few HE falling into O-. The big thing is as Fr quality IMO is increasing He and especially AA quality is disimproving. Very few calf to beef men are doing friesian's as bullock's most kill as sub 24 month bulls. As well most calf to beef men kill sub 24 months to increase output. At present the game is loaded against 26-30 month finish but it is where lads are going. The last thing is most friesian's would tend to get a harder doing that hereford's as they're considered to be of less value

GrasstoMilk

Say my name wrote: »

Ah they wouldn't be getting meal.

And sure labour and bedding costs nothing.

It's only those big time dairy farmers come out with howlers about costs about rearing bull calves.
Slippery slope after that.

You tell the tax man that your milk cheque is all profit so
I'm.sure Bertie didn't give ye the straw for nothing and someone has to spend the time feeding them too.

Not running your prices down or anything I'd be happy to get them too.
I do all the milking and calf rearing here in my own, I wouldn't have the time to keep bulls past 3 weeks never mind 5.
I'd say we only averaged 30-40 € for calves this year

Anto_Meath

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I would expect that friesian's will match hereford's kg for kg in weight gain if done the same. Later friesian's tend to be of slightly poorer quality rather than early season ones. However if you are buying 3-6 weeks old friesian's compared to 3 week old hereford's the friesian's will be 10-15 kgs ahead as well as o!der. If both continue with the same weight gain at slaughter I expect the gap to be closer than that. I would expect the friesian's to kill at 355 kgs. However the temptation is to feed the hereford's a bit the second winter and ignore the extra cost. With the hereford's killing 370 kgs@ O+/= not all will make the HE bonus using a 3.9 base they should averages they should gross 1470 euro. The friesian's killing 355 kgs (2/3'O= and 1/3 O-) would!d hit about 1340 euro. A 130 euro difference.
The variable's would be maybe a few friesian's falling into P's and a few HE falling into O-. The big thing is as Fr quality IMO is increasing He and especially AA quality is disimproving. Very few calf to beef men are doing friesian's as bullock's most kill as sub 24 month bulls. As well most calf to beef men kill sub 24 months to increase output. At present the game is loaded against 26-30 month finish but it is where lads are going. The last thing is most friesian's would tend to get a harder doing that hereford's as they're considered to be of less value

I tend to kill any of the calves bought as bullocks at the end of June beginning of July at 27 - 28 months, its when the price is best, they go to grass in March and get meal for about 6 weeks before they are killed. So far as a system its working for me. (Other cattle that are bought are sold at different times)But you are right the general Friesian bullock are holding their own, they will carry weight and in general most of what I buy will grade O =/- (get the odd +) any P's are generally the dodge that came in on a group but you know that the day you are buying. Yes the AA & HE quality has gone to the dogs in the last few years. Was very disappointed with how some have preformed in the last two to three years, no size, weight or shape. The look good an fluffy when they are full of cows milk as calves but go hard and narrow once the milk stops.

blue5000

visatorro wrote: »

Boom is back

Has the factory price gone up 5c/kg?

Say my name

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You tell the tax man that your milk cheque is all profit so
I'm.sure Bertie didn't give ye the straw for nothing and someone has to spend the time feeding them too.

Not running your prices down or anything I'd be happy to get them too.
I do all the milking and calf rearing here in my own, I wouldn't have the time to keep bulls past 3 weeks never mind 5.
I'd say we only averaged 30-40 € for calves this year

Ah you know I was only codding.

Trouble is though when these questions start being asked about bull calves. Is that where does it end?

Not a fortune teller but I tell ya where it'll end.

It'll end up in lads seeing calves only a nuisance in a place. And cutting corners and trying to save as much as they can on them.
Lads won't bother feeding them biestings, will under feed them, won't bother with bedding, out the door as quick as they can into the Mart with poor done calves that nobody wants and then forced to bring them home again and introduce disease pressure to their precious heifer calves. .or worse they somehow all mysteriously all die the same day from pneumonia (as far as the dept is concerned).
All for the sake of spending a few pittance on the few bull calves you'd have.

Life's not all about money. I get a great sense of achievement when I have my bull calves well done and know they won't just drop off dead from malnourishment or from being too young on some lorry or trailer or wherever they may go.
Maybe in this cold world now sentiment has no value. But it still does with me.

Sacrolyte

Fr bull calves will be scarce next year. You heard it here first.

jaymla627

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Fr bull calves will be scarce next year. You heard it here first.

They’ll be scare alright, lads will have the knacker on speed-dial instead of hoping they’ll get them away at the whim of the shippers for 30-40 euro at 3 weeks plus of age

Mooooo

I know of no one who treats the bulls any different from heifers in the first weeks. Not feeding biestings or bedding etc will have problems b4 they leave at all which is more work. Most of us may have regular buyers and they won't be regular if they had issues with calves. I received the same cheque value this year for 7 calves as I did for one last year. It is just the way the market was/ is. Got 120 2 weeks ago then for fr bulls due to an extra buyer. Will find out later what today's batch made

Say my name

Mooooo wrote: »

I know of no one who treats the bulls any different from heifers in the first weeks. Not feeding biestings or bedding etc will have problems b4 they leave at all which is more work. Most of us may have regular buyers and they won't be regular if they had issues with calves. I received the same cheque value this year for 7 calves as I did for one last year. It is just the way the market was/ is. Got 120 2 weeks ago then for fr bulls due to an extra buyer. Will find out later what today's batch made

Go the Mart though and there's some desperate bred and fed calves brought out.

Waste product to some farmers. The Mart is seen as a garbage disposal system.

whelan2

Say my name wrote: »

Go the Mart though and there's some desperate bred and fed calves brought out.

Waste product to some farmers. The Mart is seen as a garbage disposal system.

No that was sorted out this spring with no bids. Tbh some of the calves I saw I'd be embarrassed to show them at a mart

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

They’ll be scare alright, lads will have the knacker on speed-dial instead of hoping they’ll get them away at the whim of the shippers for 30-40 euro at 3 weeks plus of age

What will be the implications for disposing of them to the knacker, will there be farm inspections due to higher deaths?

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

What will be the implications for disposing of them to the knacker, will there be farm inspections due to higher deaths?

Have no clue, the Holstein calf been bred here would mean if the shipping market was lost, calves would have to be disposed of as their simply not viable beef animals, and wouldn’t try and pass them off to some poor lad beef framing

Buford T. Justice XIX

Say my name wrote: »

Life's not all about money. I get a great sense of achievement when I have my bull calves well done and know they won't just drop off dead from malnourishment or from being too young on some lorry or trailer or wherever they may go.
Maybe in this cold world now sentiment has no value. But it still does with me.

It's great when people have a bit of pride in the work they do:)

Mooooo wrote: »

I know of no one who treats the bulls any different from heifers in the first weeks. Not feeding biestings or bedding etc will have problems b4 they leave at all which is more work. Most of us may have regular buyers and they won't be regular if they had issues with calves. I received the same cheque value this year for 7 calves as I did for one last year. It is just the way the market was/ is. Got 120 2 weeks ago then for fr bulls due to an extra buyer. Will find out later what today's batch made

We've had lots of claims about bulls being treated different to heifers and I've not seen any of it on farms I've had the privilege of being on these last few years. Any farmer that doesn't look after his bulls the same as his heifers is just going to end up with poorer and fewer heifers and a cost to him far above what not looking after his bulls would have saved him. Very short sighted and one they won't chance again.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Have no clue, the Holstein calf been bred here would mean if the shipping market was lost, calves would have to be disposed of as their simply not viable beef animals, and wouldn’t try and pass them off to some poor lad beef framing

I struggle to understand this. How are they not viable?

jaymla627

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's great when people have a bit of pride in the work they do:)

We've had lots of claims about bulls being treated different to heifers and I've not seen any of it on farms I've had the privilege of being on these last few years. Any farmer that doesn't look after his bulls the same as his heifers is just going to end up with poorer and fewer heifers and a cost to him far above what not looking after his bulls would have saved him. Very short sighted and one they won't chance again.


I struggle to understand this. How are they not viable?

Would be using extreme Holstein here with maintance figures in the minus 20-30 range, you’d want to be foolhardy to try and fatten the resultant bull calves , literally eat you out of house and home before you’d get them near a factory

Mooooo

jaymla627 wrote: »

Would be using extreme Holstein here with maintance figures in the minus 20-30 range, you’d want to be foolhardy to try and fatten the resultant bull calves , literally eat you out of house and home before you’d get them near a factory

Maintenance figure is associated with liveweight? Negative being bigger. I think freedom mentioned before having good success finishing similar stock?

Brown Podzol

Mooooo wrote: »

Maintenance figure is associated with liveweight? Negative being bigger. I think freedom mentioned before having good success finishing similar stock?

Each increment,plus or minus,is equal to 4kg above or below 625kg, the live weight of the base cow. So a minus 30 bull will transmit half 120 kg to the calf. Assuming a 625kg base cow with maintenance figure of 0 mated with a minus 30 bull will result in a mature cow weighing 680kg.

Bass Reeves

whelan2 wrote: »

jaymla627 wrote: »

They’ll be scare alright, lads will have the knacker on speed-dial instead of hoping they’ll get them away at the whim of the shippers for 30-40 euro at 3 weeks plus of age

What will be the implications for disposing of them to the knacker, will there be farm inspections due to higher deaths?

Dairy farmers will have to decide invidually if they want to protect there industry. It not for the beef industry to be seen as a dumping ground. Last year about 10k calves were slaughtered. Most were slaughtered at 2-3 weeks with little or no money going to the farmer to cover costs. These were mostly Jex calves. The market was able to handle them. What if the number jumps to 50-60 k next year will the market be able to handle that. Will processors charge a surcharge of 20-30 euro for every calf processed. Will milk processors be happy with that. How long before a larger farm gets caught on camera mistreating claves being loaded onto a bobby calf wagon or a processor get caught mishandling under nourished calves.

The dairy industry need to decide what it's priority's​ are and believe it or not that is in the hands of individual farmers hands. We are only a year or two away from AA calves following Friesian. I bought a bunch of AA store bulls 340kgs last autumn. To say I am disappointed in there progress is an understatement. They are suckler bred. I paid 470 for them I bought some Friesian 390 kgs over six weeks later. They are flying ahead of the AA who I made bullock's of. They were both about the same price landed in the yard. There was 8 of them two are very light but the whole lot will struggle to hit much with 280DW before 30 months IMO.

I will not be bidding on AA's from now on as they are too hard to judge

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Dairy farmers will have to decide invidually if they want to protect there industry. It not for the beef industry to be seen as a dumping ground. Last year about 10k calves were slaughtered. Most were slaughtered at 2-3 weeks with little or no money going to the farmer to cover costs. These were mostly Jex calves. The market was able to handle them. What if the number jumps to 50-60 k next year will the market be able to handle that. Will processors charge a surcharge of 20-30 euro for every calf processed. Will milk processors be happy with that. How long before a larger farm gets caught on camera mistreating claves being loaded onto a bobby calf wagon or a processor get caught mishandling under nourished calves.

The dairy industry need to decide what it's priority's​ are and believe it or not that is in the hands of individual farmers hands. We are only a year or two away from AA calves following Friesian. I bought a bunch of AA store bulls 340kgs last autumn. To say I am disappointed in there progress is an understatement. They are suckler bred. I paid 470 for them I bought some Friesian 390 kgs over six weeks later. They are flying ahead of the AA who I made bullock's of. They were both about the same price landed in the yard. There was 8 of them two are very light but the whole lot will struggle to hit much with 280DW before 30 months IMO.

I will not be bidding on AA's from now on as they are too hard to judge

If their isn’t a viable beef industry and prices remain where they’re at presently no dairy calf no matter how suitable for beef production will be viable, Ireland was unique in so far that a market has always existed for calves from the dairy herd but this won’t always be the case, processors can’t really read the riot act either given their piss-poor preformamce on milk pricing means the fat simply isn’t in the system to conform to some idealogical idea about not slaughtering booby calves...
Lots of countries worldwide operate the Bobby calf system and are receiving higher milk prices then we are at the moment it’s not the red line issue we are been told it is

Hard Knocks

jaymla627 wrote: »

we are at the moment it’s not the red line issue we are been told it is

Farming in Ireland is at a crossroad
There’s lots who want to see it fall, vegans & even some of the public

Whether you believe it or not Our image is not great to allot outside of the farming community
They’ve the view we’re always whinging about having no money but drive around in big shiny new jeeps and tractors

Lots have quoted they can’t wait for cheap Brazilian beef to come in as the farmers are getting too much grants

Don’t get them started on our pollution of water, carbon in the air & stink from slurry

Bobby calf would be the final nail

Bass Reeves

More and more PLC's are very aware of there image. It takes very little for a PLC to decide it's image is more important than the supplies. However some of the issues are in the hand of farmers. There was a perception by some dairy farmers that they can breed any sort of calf and get paid for them. If milk production become's the only criteria in production then calf prices will continue to drop. AA calves/stores are becoming unwanted just like JEX's. It one thing considering JEX's and extreme Ho's as not viable however if middle of the road FR and AA's follow them then you are taking of hundreds of thousands of calves not being viable
or dairy farmers being unwilling to rear them. Even NZ now is getting worried by the booby calf issue. We are not NZ we sell into some of the most consumer aware markets in the world. Like I posted calves even those for processing can have a negatively value. There is no reason that PLC's may pay different prices for milk or refuse to collect milk from some farmers. It could become a Board Bia criteria for milk QA even just like the carbon agenda is creeping in.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Farming in Ireland is at a crossroad
There’s lots who want to see it fall, vegans & even some of the public

Whether you believe it or not Our image is not great to allot outside of the farming community
They’ve the view we’re always whinging about having no money but drive around in big shiny new jeeps and tractors

Lots have quoted they can’t wait for cheap Brazilian beef to come in as the farmers are getting too much grants

Don’t get them started on our pollution of water, carbon in the air & stink from slurry

Bobby calf would be the final nail

I notice they never want their subsidies cut or abolished, just ones they can't access.

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

More and more PLC's are very aware of there image. It takes very little for a PLC to decide it's image is more important than the supplies. However some of the issues are in the hand of farmers. There was a perception by some dairy farmers that they can breed any sort of calf and get paid for them. If milk production become's the only criteria in production then calf prices will continue to drop. AA calves/stores are becoming unwanted just like JEX's. It one thing considering JEX's and extreme Ho's as not viable however if middle of the road FR and AA's follow them then you are taking of hundreds of thousands of calves not being viable
or dairy farmers being unwilling to rear them. Even NZ now is getting worried by the booby calf issue. We are not NZ we sell into some of the most consumer aware markets in the world. Like I posted calves even those for processing can have a negatively value. There is no reason that PLC's may pay different prices for milk or refuse to collect milk from some farmers. It could become a Board Bia criteria for milk QA even just like the carbon agenda is creeping in.

In your above scenario, given tightening nitrate allowances and carbon taxes down the line, lads would simply have to cut herd sizes in half and dramatically cut output to cater for rearing their bull calves our pay beef farmers to contract rear them, all of which will add 4 cent plus onto what it will cost to produce a litre of milk, zero issue if co-ops will compensate dairy farmers but if they still expect milk at 30 odd cent a litre, and lots of it, there would be civil war in co-ops

Bass Reeves

jaymla627 wrote: »

In your above scenario, given tightening nitrate allowances and carbon taxes down the line, lads would simply have to cut herd sizes in half and dramatically cut output to cater for rearing their bull calves our pay beef farmers to contract rear them, all of which will add 4 cent plus onto what it will cost to produce a litre of milk, zero issue if co-ops will compensate dairy farmers but if they still expect milk at 30 odd cent a litre, and lots of it, there would be civil war in co-ops

Or else breed calves that have an economic beef value. Nobody expects 100% of calves to have an economic value however if the bobby calf number hit much above 1-2%% ( that is about 30k+ calves) I can see it staring to be an issue. If the numbers start to hit 10-15% in the region of 150-200k calves there will be huge issues for the dairy industry IMO. It would be very easy to hit that number by the dairy industry getting careless and a poor beef price as at present. If your prediction is right next year such calf numbers could hit 50k+. When you start to talk about numbers like that it gets hairy.

This is mainly a dairy industry issue not a beef industry issue. As well it may only be the farmers producing these calves that get hit. The government could put a levy on slaughtered calves to prevent it or even the EU or some processors could stop collecting milk from producers who slaughter a large percentage of calves. Such producer's would then have to find another milk processors and I am sure there would be some processors willing to process it but the milk price could be 3-10c/L below the industry norm. The government,the PLC's and the Co-op's will do what ever it takes to keep the show on the road.