Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

durthacht

durthacht wrote: »

As context though, the petition asking the IRFU to conduct a review of Jackson & Olding has over 68,100 signatures.

So 6.5 times more people have expressed the view that they would not be welcome to represent Ireland, at least not yet.

Or to put it another way, almost 87% of people who voted in either poll are not supportive of Jackson and Olding being welcomed back at this stage.

It seems to me quite clear that public opinion is against Jackson and Olding.

87% of people who waste their time with online polls. Both are pointless and will have no impact on the IRFU's decision to retain or let go the players.

durthacht

Deleted User wrote: »

87% of people who waste their time with online polls. Both are pointless and will have no impact on the IRFU's decision to retain or let go the players.

Yeah you're right. Just trying to provide a counter-point that the numbers in the previously quoted poll in support of Jackson & Olding are really not that impressive at all.

But you're right that all are irrelevant.

Fann Linn

durthacht wrote: »

As context though, the petition asking the IRFU to conduct a review of Jackson & Olding has over 68,100 signatures.

So 6.5 times more people have expressed the view that they would not be welcome to represent Ireland, at least not yet.

Or to put it another way, almost 87% of people who voted in either poll are not supportive of Jackson and Olding being welcomed back at this stage.

It seems to me quite clear that public opinion is against Jackson and Olding.

The other has been up and running for a couple of weeks has it not?. Can never trust these online polls anyway, to open to interference and foul play, a bit like the #metoo brigade.
Anyone can sign up.

bilston

durthacht wrote: »

As context though, the petition asking the IRFU to conduct a review of Jackson & Olding has over 68,100 signatures.

So 6.5 times more people have expressed the view that they would not be welcome to represent Ireland, at least not yet.

Or to put it another way, almost 87% of people who voted in either poll are not supportive of Jackson and Olding being welcomed back at this stage.

It seems to me quite clear that public opinion is against Jackson and Olding.

In Ireland yes...not so in Ulster.

Also one petition has been running for one day, the other for almost two weeks. Not that I expect it to match the other petition. But I bet a hell of a lot more genuine Ulster fans have signed one petition and not the other.

Former Former

The first petition was a bit mad because IRFU had already said they would be conducting a review. So 68,000 people are just endorsing that course of action.

Question; if the two boys were allowed play for Ulster but were stood down from national duty for eg 12 months, what would people think?

Could be a compromise, a meaningful penance (especially for Jackson) but not shunning them completely.

durthacht

Former Former wrote: »

The first petition was a bit mad because IRFU had already said they would be conducting a review. So 68,000 people are just endorsing that course of action.

Question; if the two boys were allowed play for Ulster but were stood down from national duty for eg 12 months, what would people think?

Could be a compromise, a meaningful penance (especially for Jackson) but not shunning them completely.

Maybe I'm cynical but I suspect the only opinions which count are those of the sponsors: Vodafone, Kingspan, Canterbury, Aviva, Ulster Bank, Guinness, Aer Lingus. I suspect Jackson & Olding are now just too toxic for them to represent their brand to maintain a sponsorship with the IRFU.

If Jackson & Olding can't represent the IRFU then I don't see how they could represent an IRFU branch with many of the same sponsors.

Also if Jackson has no future in test rugby, then why stay in Ireland? He could earn much more than his Ulster salary in France or England.

RuMan

Fann Linn wrote: »

The other has been up and running for a couple of weeks has it not?. Can never trust these online polls anyway, to open to interference and foul play, a bit like the #metoo brigade.
Anyone can sign up.

Ronnie O'Brien Time Person of the Century

Synode

There's a piece about whether they should be allowed to play for Ire again about to start on Claire Byrne RTE1

Synode

Synode wrote: »

There's a piece about whether they should be allowed to play for Ire again about to start on Claire Byrne RTE1

They have Neil Francis on to start, not sure what this is going to achieve but at least he is being measured.

Anne O'Connell is on now, that's the author of the article I linked the other day.

So can we have a separate thread for this? I woke upto 6 yellow cards for discussing this yesterday and I've absolutely no idea what is and isn't fair game now to be honest. Can we have a thread with normal forum rules but obviously not gumming up this thread which seems to be what the problem was?

Paul Smeenus

Former Former wrote: »

The first petition was a bit mad because IRFU had already said they would be conducting a review. So 68,000 people are just endorsing that course of action.

Question; if the two boys were allowed play for Ulster but were stood down from national duty for eg 12 months, what would people think?

Could be a compromise, a meaningful penance (especially for Jackson) but not shunning them completely.

The first petition also was quite clear that the IRFU should also investigate McIlroy and Harrison's behaviour, before it was changed. They didn't know the IRFU was already investigating, they didn't know who actually played for Ulster. It was not a petition put together by anyone who knew the first thing about Ulster Rugby.

jacothelad

durthacht wrote: »

Yeah you're right. Just trying to provide a counter-point that the numbers in the previously quoted poll in support of Jackson & Olding are really not that impressive at all.

But you're right that all are irrelevant.

Well the support petition has been going for just over a day. Now over 12,000. It is a local response to the ad placed by 141 people.

errlloyd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They have Neil Francis on to start, not sure what this is going to achieve but at least he is being measured.

Anne O'Connell is on now, that's the author of the article I linked the other day.

So can we have a separate thread for this? I woke upto 6 yellow cards for discussing this yesterday and I've absolutely no idea what is and isn't fair game now to be honest. Can we have a thread with normal forum rules but obviously not gumming up this thread which seems to be what the problem was?

Don't worry bru, I got 5 for replying to you. So it was indiscriminate.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Don't worry bru, I got 5 for replying to you. So it was indiscriminate.

No for sure, it was nothing like that. Just I don't want to annoy people in the Ulster thread, there is still aspects of this debate that are ongoing, it probably makes sense to have it's own thread.

I hope if anyone saw Claire Byrne they now have a better idea what I was talking about in relation to where the incident occurred and how the messages were communicated in terms of what the IRFU can actually do by way of disciplinary action.

Fann Linn

RuMan wrote: »

Ronnie O'Brien Time Person of the Century

I haven't a clue what you're on about.
Sorry.

stephen_n

Online petitions will have zero effect on the sponsors, they will carry out their own opinion polls. That will question the effect on their brand of the lads playing again. We will never see the results of those polls.

Buer

Petition seems to have been taken down, curiously.

FrancieBrady

Buer wrote: »

Petition seems to have been taken down, curiously.

It was being spammed apparently.

jr86

durthacht wrote: »

Just trying to provide a counter-point that the numbers in the previously quoted poll in support of Jackson & Olding are really not that impressive at all.

In fairness it's not bad at all for only being active a day.

Remember you'll have far more "bandwagoners" jumping in and signing the other one. My Facebook feed was full of ill-informed opinions last week by people who wouldn't have the first notion about Rugby but felt compelled to comment as it was such an emotive case. Very few who have no interest in Rugby are going to care enough to sign this petition even if they privately feel the lads should be more than allowed get on with their lives and careers. Also you'll have all sorts of nationalities signing the other one - this is big news and there was even marches in feckin New York last week

There is no comparison between the 2 and both are completely pointless anyway.

durthacht wrote: »

Also if Jackson has no future in test rugby, then why stay in Ireland? He could earn much more than his Ulster salary in France or England.

Jackson grew up in Belfast, went to school there, has family there, and friends there. Like anyone in any circle of life, it's not all that easy a move to just up and leave to head to a different country where you know very few, where you don't have an existing support network (in Jackson's circumstances) and all the challenges with setting up a new home, becoming a resident in a new country etc.

It may be a case he feels only for this happened he may be challenging for the Ulster captaincy now, may be one of the best 10s in the world and so on - and that he's entitled to pick up from where he left off. It may also be an act of defiance against all the ill-informed keyboard warriors. But I wouldn't see it as unusual at all

Now maybe he's just acting defiant in the hope a French team will come in with a massive offer he can't refuse as a result, or maybe he's even privately signed a new deal with someone and for PR purposes the announcement will be delayed

mfceiling

Twitter machine linking Jim Mallinder with the head coach job.

launish116

mfceiling wrote: »

Twitter machine linking Jim Mallinder with the head coach job.

Argh I hope not

Buer

Mallinder did a fantastic job with Northampton but his time just ran its course and they struggled in the past couple of seasons. But if you look at his first 6 years there, he brought them back up, made them a strong European side, won the Challenge Cup twice, reached the HEC final and won the Premiership.

His reputation has been badly tarnished by the last couple of years but his time at Northampton is similar to the performance of Cockerill at Leicester who fell apart under him in his last season too.

launish116

Buer wrote: »

Mallinder did a fantastic job with Northampton but his time just ran its course and they struggled in the past couple of seasons. But if you look at his first 6 years there, he brought them back up, made them a strong European side, won the Challenge Cup twice, reached the HEC final and won the Premiership.

His reputation has been badly tarnished by the last couple of years but his time at Northampton is similar to the performance of Cockerill at Leicester who fell apart under him in his last season too.

Take note of the teams Northampton & Leicester had during these periods, both had one key element and the one Ulster severly lacks. They both had big, hard hitting packs and without them they struggled. Albeit  Cockerill is doing well in Edinburgh.

irishfan9

launish116 wrote: »

Take note of the teams Northampton & Leicester had during these periods, both had one key element and the one Ulster severly lacks. They both had big, hard hitting packs and without them they struggled. Albeit  Cockerill is doing well in Edinburgh.

Edinburgh has imported a lot of beef.

Buer

launish116 wrote: »

Take note of the teams Northampton & Leicester had during these periods, both had one key element and the one Ulster severly lacks. They both had big, hard hitting packs and without them they struggled. Albeit  Cockerill is doing well in Edinburgh.

Mallinder was a huge factor in developing that team though and identifying guys who he could bring in to do that job. He brought through guys like Lawes and Hartley from their early years but his signings were even more impressive and none were big names at the time with the possible exception of Mujati who was a capped international (but not a highly rated one).

His ability to attract and develop guys like Foden, Ashton, Tonga'uiha (taken from lower divisions), Tom Wood etc. was the real success story of his time there. He really got the best out of average guys like Downey, Wilson and Dowson too.

He's a tough nut who brought discipline to his squad and took them out of the absolute doldrums of relegation to being in a HEC final 4 years later. If he still has that ambition and focus, I'd be more than willing to give him a shot.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

His ability to attract and develop guys like Foden, Ashton, Tonga'uiha (taken from lower divisions), Tom Wood etc. was the real success story of his time there. He really got the best out of average guys like Downey, Wilson and Dowson too.

It was his inability to ever attract a truly good outhalf that arguably got him in the end. Smyler was a decent moneyball purchase. It was a good shout getting him from Rugby League, but he wasn't as good as his peers.

thomond2006

Would it be shocking if Stephen Myler followed Mallinder to Ulster? He would be a steady backup to McPhillips who will hopefully develop into a starter.

Open to correction but Coetzee and Deysel are the only NIEs under contract next season. Ludik and Herbst are IE at this stage.

Buer

errlloyd wrote: »

It was his inability to ever attract a truly good outhalf that arguably got him in the end. Smyler was a decent moneyball purchase. It was a good shout getting him from Rugby League, but he wasn't as good as his peers.

Indeed but Northampton didn't really have the money to compete with other clubs when it came to attracting a top outhalf. There are only a few available in the AP and they weren't going to be going to Northampton. Myler is a fairly standard AP level outhalf when you consider guys like Simmonds, Burns, Priestland, McGinty etc. are starting at other clubs. Myler was also massive for them the season they won the league so was probably a fairly trusted player for Mallinder.

They tried with the young, highly rated guys like Lamb and Geraghty but they just never had the clout to bring in someone like Farrell or Ford and they probably didn't think spending more on a Cipriani type name was worth the cash.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

Indeed but Northampton didn't really have the money to compete with other clubs when it came to attracting a top outhalf. There are only a few available in the AP and they weren't going to be going to Northampton. Myler is a fairly standard AP level outhalf when you consider guys like Simmonds, Burns, Priestland, McGinty etc. are starting at other clubs. Myler was also massive for them the season they won the league so was probably a fairly trusted player for Mallinder.

They tried with the young, highly rated guys like Lamb and Geraghty but they just never had the clout to bring in someone like Farrell or Ford and they probably didn't think spending more on a Cipriani type name was worth the cash.

Yeah, top out halves are a rare enough breed that they demand the big bucks. And if you're paying that money, you need to be sure you're getting the return from it. A Cipriani type is not the answer, but the Fords and the Farrells would be too expensive for Northampton. It makes what Baxter and Exeter have achieved all the more impressive. I can't imagine that Steenson is on big money.

errlloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, top out halves are a rare enough breed that they demand the big bucks. And if you're paying that money, you need to be sure you're getting the return from it. A Cipriani type is not the answer, but the Fords and the Farrells would be too expensive for Northampton. It makes what Baxter and Exeter have achieved all the more impressive. I can't imagine that Steenson is on big money.

I agree, but at the same time they did splash out some big money on North.

When Northampton were competing for top honours they had decent revenue, great fans and Heineken Cup Rugby. They really should have been able to attract someone decent. Same thing I've always said about Toulon to be fair.

Scythica

So the rumour mill continues.
Interviews today.
Mallinder
Glenn Moore
Shaun Edwards
Andy Robinson.

Dare I say it... but I'd probably take the man with no HC experience in Edwards, followed by Mallinder.
I don't know enough about Moore to comment, did he have a successful reign in Super rugby? The woman's kiwi team won the world cup right enough, but on the verge of saying the wrong thing... I don't know quite how to quantify that against the men's game.