Property Market 2018

The_Conductor

Augeo wrote: »

He reckons that about folk in Ireland? Resident & working in Ireland?

All of your recent comments are incorrect so I wouldn't be getting too indignant if I were you to be honest.

You were bleating on about 12% corporation tax so please don't now claim your points weren't about Ireland.

Agree to disagree with one another- and move on.
Please stop derailing the thread- BOTH OF YOU.

M.Cribben

Interesting discussion on Claire Byrne tonight.
To summarize, rents are higher than Celtic tiger levels. Property prices are about 18 months off those levels.
The auctioneer from Galway made a point I never thought of, that investors are buying houses/apartments which have never been let before, so they are not subject to rent caps. And first time buyers are buying the ex-investment properties, because landlords won't buy them for above reason.

Topgear on Dave

The grinning estate agent with his opening line "The market is very vibrant".....

I nearly put the nearest chair through the television :mad:


Fair point made about the first time buyers buying the old rentals Id say, theres a few rentals in my estate here going to FTBs.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Henbabani

agree with you, my wife working in Accenture, mid income(30-35K) per year.
she told me that more and more people, especially those who came from Germany, Italy and Spain getting back home after few months.
We are part of Israeli group on Facebook and even there you can see that more and more people talking about come back to Israel, i personally know 2 families that the husband work for Google and Oracle that get back home.
i really feel that the prices are reaching some psychological limit that above it people start to go back home and leave Ireland with her problems.
Even me and my wife going to give a one year chance to live here, but as things looks like we probably move on March to London.
they pay the same salary, and it's a bit cheaper to live there, and there's so much to do in London.
Good luck to the Irish people with that crisis, it's really bad i have to say.

p.s - there's so many job offers on Linkedin for Danish speaker, french speakers and italian, i don't know why they think that people from Sweden, Italy or France come to Dublin working for 27-30K and pay 1300-1400E for 1BDR apartment.

Bob24

Housing cost and uncompetitive mortgage rates are a problem for sure, but as per the figures I posted a few pages ago taxation isn’t one (Ireland has low taxation compared to the rest of Europe both in terms of corporate tax and income tax / social security contributions).

LirW

Good luck to the Irish people with that crisis, it's really bad i have to say.

So now that you're here you finally believe it? :pac:
No honestly, I wish you good luck with all of it, it's tough as it is.

Henbabani

LirW wrote: »

So now that you're here you finally believe it? :pac:
No honestly, I wish you good luck with all of it, it's tough as it is.

yeah, actually we had quite lucky, we found a 2BDR apartment n Carrickmines manor for 1650, which isn't cheap at all but still it took us only 10 days to get it.
But now when i see the net come from my wife and i salary it's really difficult.
sorry to say that but we have lucky that we still don't have kids, otherwise we probably be in Israel again by now.

Bob24

Henbabani wrote: »

p.s - there's so many job offers on Linkedin for Danish speaker, french speakers and italian, i don't know why they think that people from Sweden, Italy or France come to Dublin working for 27-30K and pay 1300-1400E for 1BDR apartment.

That kind of salary doesn’t allow to plan for a long term family life in Dublin, but for a young person with limited qualifications and/or work experience who wants to spend some time abroad it’s fine. And also for the most part those would be customer service jobs which don’t require any qualification besides speaking a certain language and being polite and serious. Jobs for people with similar qualifications would be paid quite a bit less in some of those countries (a junior CSR in France won’t make more than 20k).

Not saying it’s great to be clear, but there are reasons for people to come.

Also for someone who is qualified and takes one of these as a starter job in Ireland, given how tense the job market is for some qualifications (IT, accounting, etc) they will be able to reach a salary of 50k+ fairly quickly (a few years).

LirW

Henbabani wrote: »

yeah, actually we had quite lucky, we found a 2BDR apartment n Carrickmines manor for 1650, which isn't cheap at all but still it took us only 10 days to get it.
But now when i see the net come from my wife and i salary it's really difficult.
sorry to say that but we have lucky that we still don't have kids, otherwise we probably be in Israel again by now.

On that kind of salary you can only really move outside and commute and commuting is a massive pain in the hole in Ireland because neither the Motorways nor the public transport can carry the capacity it should.

If you wanna stay in Ireland, maybe moving to another city and work there would make it easier.
If you move on to London at least the public transport is decent enough there (personally wouldn't fancy living in London).

I know loads of people considering Ireland because it looks nice on paper and loads of them go back within the first year. Good friend of mine did a term in Dublin and after being scammed for accommodation and living in some run down part of Coolock he fled Dublin at the first opportunity available.

Cyrus

Henbabani wrote: »

agree with you, my wife working in Accenture, mid income(30-35K) per year.
she told me that more and more people, especially those who came from Germany, Italy and Spain getting back home after few months.
We are part of Israeli group on Facebook and even there you can see that more and more people talking about come back to Israel, i personally know 2 families that the husband work for Google and Oracle that get back home.
i really feel that the prices are reaching some psychological limit that above it people start to go back home and leave Ireland with her problems.
Even me and my wife going to give a one year chance to live here, but as things looks like we probably move on March to London.
they pay the same salary, and it's a bit cheaper to live there, and there's so much to do in London.
Good luck to the Irish people with that crisis, it's really bad i have to say.

p.s - there's so many job offers on Linkedin for Danish speaker, french speakers and italian, i don't know why they think that people from Sweden, Italy or France come to Dublin working for 27-30K and pay 1300-1400E for 1BDR apartment.

30-35k in dublin isnt mid income though

Henbabani

Henbabani wrote: »

...............

p.s - there's so many job offers on Linkedin for Danish speaker, french speakers and italian, i don't know why they think that people from Sweden, Italy or France come to Dublin working for 27-30K and pay 1300-1400E for 1BDR apartment.

If that was a representative salary of most skilled / educated workers in Dublin than we wouldn't have high rents.

Samuel T. Cogley

Generally that bracket rent a room.

LirW

Bob24 wrote: »

That kind of salary doesn’t allow to plan for a long term family life in Dublin, but for a young person with limited qualifications and/or work experience who wants to spend some time abroad it’s fine. And also for the most part those would be customer service jobs which don’t require any qualification besides speaking a certain language and being polite and serious. Jobs for people with similar qualifications would be paid quite a bit less in some of those countries (a junior CSR in France won’t make more than 20k).

I've been going for jobs like that and the exploitation of highly qualified foreign people is absolutely unreal. The company mentioned above pulled the worst stunt I've ever seen by offering me the job and sending me the contract where I found out that I'd be employed with a recruitment company and no right on anything paid plus the pay would have worked out lower than they offered it in the first place. It was never mentioned before in the whole recruitment process. Now I was in the position to keep looking but many come here and don't have a choice to take on these jobs and a lot of them are let go after 11 months before contract renewal is due. I'm not making this up, I was horrified about this practice.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Shedite27

Henbabani wrote: »

there's so many job offers on Linkedin for Danish speaker, french speakers and italian, i don't know why they think that people from Sweden, Italy or France come to Dublin working for 27-30K and pay 1300-1400E for 1BDR apartment.

I was on €26k when I moved to Dublin in 2006, rented a room in a house with other people. Plenty of people do it. It's not unreasonable that people at entry level salaries can't afford the most desirable apartments

Shedite27

Henbabani wrote: »

Even me and my wife going to give a one year chance to live here, but as things looks like we probably move on March to London.
they pay the same salary, and it's a bit cheaper to live there, and there's so much to do in London.

Also, if you were surprised with the cost of living in Dublin, I'd recommend you do some research on the cost of living in London before you move there!

gmisk

Shedite27 wrote: »

I was on €26k when I moved to Dublin in 2006, rented a room in a house with other people. Plenty of people do it. It's not unreasonable that people at entry level salaries can't afford the most desirable apartments

That was a long time ago.....the price of a room in a house would be a LOT more now I would think, with the wages not really going up hugely.
(BTW i lived in shared house til i was 33 - god I hated it lol)

gmisk

Shedite27 wrote: »

Also, if you were surprised with the cost of living in Dublin, I'd recommend you do some research on the cost of living in London before you move there!

Agree with this rent is astronomical in London you would need to be on a lot more money than in Dublin....

Shedite27

gmisk wrote: »

That was a long time ago.....the price of a room in a house would be a LOT more now I would think, with the wages not really going up hugely.
(BTW i lived in shared house til i was 33 - god I hated it lol)

Well just for reference I paid €600/month for a room in a 4 bed house in Churchtown from 2006 - 2009

gmisk

Shedite27 wrote: »

Well just for reference I paid €600/month for a room in a 4 bed house in Churchtown from 2006 - 2009

yikes that was a fair wack!
I paid 500 euro around about that time in Kilmainham.....for comparable room.....looking on Daft you are talking 800 euro!

Cyrus

Shedite27 wrote: »

Also, if you were surprised with the cost of living in Dublin, I'd recommend you do some research on the cost of living in London before you move there!

indeed, London is much more expensive than dublin.

Bob24

draiochtanois wrote: »

A marginal rate of 52% is excessive taxation and it is a problem.

A top rate of USC of 11% is excessive taxation and it is a problem.

The top rate kicking in at €34,550 is excessive taxation and it is a problem.

You really should review taxation levels on labour in other European countries.

Can you show solid figures confirming overall taxation level on labour is high in Ireland compared to the rest of Europe?

Here are again the figures I am looking at which show we have the third lowest taxation level in Europe not far behind Cyprus and Malta (and way lower that other countries which have been quoted her as destinations for people escaping Irish taxation on their labour): http://www.institutmolinari.org/IMG/pdf/tax-burden-eu-2017.pdf

Bob24

bil_clay wrote: »

the average is distorted due to those on low ( ish ) incomes paying near nothing in tax , a person on 22 k per year in the uk would pay far more income tax than in ireland , never mind germany or denmark , someone in sweeden earning below 25 k would pay about eight times as much tax as in ireland yet someone earning 60 k per year in sweden would not pay that much more tax than in ireland

its those in the middle who get creamed here , the very wealthy will always have ways of minimising tax and politicians they can influence but those at the bottom are very well represented here too despite what the left wing media would have us believe

See my previous post with a link to actual figures a worker who is in the middle. We are definitely amongst the lowest.

People always think taxation is too high in any country because no one likes tax, but no one on this thread has posted actual numbers. It is just an (incorrect) assumption people have.

Also, it is important to remember that given our very low level of corporate tax, even if labour taxation was high (which it isn’t) companies operating her would have more cash available for gross salaries than in most other European countries.

And many people here don’t realise that while income tax is not very low, both employee and employer social security contributions are indeed *very* low in Ireland compared to the rest of Europe (again I refer to the PDF I posted and my experience working elsewhere).

I would agree we could use more tax brackets though, but for a large majority of workers this doesn’t make our labour taxation burden expensive to European standards.

keane2097

Do the other countries have actual public services?

Cyrus

Bob24 wrote: »

See my previous post with a link to actual figures. We are definitely amongst the lowest.

People always think taxation is too high in any country because no one likes tax, but no one on this thread has posted actual numbers. It is just an (incorrect) assumption people have.

Also, it is important to remember that given our very low level of corporate tax, even if labour taxation was high (which it isn’t) companies operating her would have more cash available for gross salaries than in most other European countries.

I would agree we could use more tax brackets though, but for a large majority of workers this doesn’t make our labour taxation burden expensive to European standards.

Simple comparison to our nearest neigbour shows Irish personal income & social security rates to be higher and considerably so between 50 and 100k

£50k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 26%
€50k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 29%


£100k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 34%
€100k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 39%

£150k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 40%
€150k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 43%

aloooof

Cyrus wrote: »

Simple comparison to our nearest neigbour shows Irish personal income & social security rates to be higher and considerably so between 50 and 100k

£50k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 26%
€50k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 29%


£100k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 34%
€100k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 39%

£150k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 40%
€150k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 43%

Wouldn't the numbers be more informative if you included a currency conversion also?

Bob24

Cyrus wrote: »

Simple comparison to our nearest neigbour shows Irish personal income & social security rates to be higher and considerably so between 50 and 100k

£50k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 26%
€50k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 29%


£100k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 34%
€100k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 39%

£150k a year in the uk, effective tax rate 40%
€150k a year in ireland, effective tax rate 43%

You don’t give the details of your calculations so difficult to know if they represent anything close to the truth, but from what I can see you are overlooking employer (and maybe employee?) social security contributions which would make the UK more expensive than Ireland.

As per the detailed calculations provided by E&Y and a Brussels think tank in my earlier post the UK is not too high and just a bit more expensive than Ireland though (it is the only major European country to come close to our taxation level). All other destinations mentioned in this thread (France, Netherlands, Germany) are significantly higher in terms of labour tax burden compared to Ireland.

Cyrus

aloooof wrote: »

Wouldn't the numbers be more informative if you included a currency conversion also?

i dont believe so

Cyrus

Bob24 wrote: »

You don’t give the details of your calculations so difficult to know if they represent anything close to the truth, but from what I can see you are overlooking employer social security contributions which would make the UK more expensive that Ireland.

As per the detailed calculations provided by E&Y and a Brussels think tank in my earlier post the UK is not too high and just a bit more expensive than Ireland though (it is the only major European country to come close to our taxation level). All other destinations mentioned in this thread (France, Netherlands, Germany) are significantly higher in terms of labour tax burden compared to Ireland.

https://www.uktaxcalculators.co.uk/
http://services.deloitte.ie/tc/Default.aspx

comparing a single person with no pension contribution, nothing fancy, you can double check them if you doubt them.

as to er social contributions you will note that i compared personal income tax and social contributions