Swedish Finance minister to asylum seekers: Don't come to Sweden

Mutant z

Sweden a perfectly grand country before they spoiled it all through mass immigration now they realise albiet too late the immense damage it has caused.

Fox_In_Socks

Chrongen wrote: »

I know 10 times more about the Balkan War than you do. How many books have you read about it? How many people from Yugoslavia do you know? Do you know anyone who was in the war like I do?.

The main reason for the war was for NATO to fragment the country and pull it out of Rissia's orbit, a country with whom it was a natural ally for decades.

I can pretty much tell that all you know about the war is a few propaganda pieces, a few names like Mladic and Milosevic and the odd massacre like Srebrenica. You know nothing about the country and how it all meshed together. You know nothing about the Ustashe, Chetniks, Tito, Draza Mihailovic or Ante Pavelic. So just go away.

Sweden isn’t in NATO. So what is the connection if what you say is true? Why should it reap the fallout of foreign wars?

Chrongen

b.connors wrote: »

Lefties like Chrongen are all in favour of letting a country ethnically cleanse and commit genocide to their hearts content, just look at all the death tolls under Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao et al.

You're right. I'm all for it. Just like the extermination of the Native American tribes and the ongoing attempted ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. These fcukers are just in the way.

jmayo

Chrongen wrote: »

Internet's been around since the 70's. It's been a tool in universities since the 80's and the web went live in 1994. Balkan war kicked off around 1995 iirc.

Ehh wrong wrong wrong.

Yugoslavia was exhibiting armed strive in late 1990 when Serbs in Croatian Krajina formed armed resistance against Croatian police.
Then it really kicked off in 1991 when Slovenia and more importantly Croatia broke away from Yugoslavia and declared independence.
Then the sh** really hit the fan in late 91 and early 92 with recognition of new republics and breakaway of Bosnia.
Serbs in Bosnia declared their own republic that would maintain links with Serbia itself and the Croats, Bosniacs and Serbs started carving up Bosnia.

And it was December 95 before Dayton was agreed.
And that other genocide, that we were told would never happen again, kicked off in Rwanda during the Yugoslav wars.

Chrongen wrote: »

And if it wasn't for the US/NATO instigated wars in the Balkans and MENA then a lot of these people would still be living in their own countries without seeing the need to flee foreign inspired havoc. Seems many Europeans want their dirty little wars but then blame the refugees for any consequences thereafter.

I will try and say this as nice as I can ...
You prove the theory that the more you let some people speak the more they illustrate their lack of knowledge and understanding.

Where the fook are you getting some of this shyte from ?
Do you have any concept of what Yugoslavia was like under Tito and how he kept a lid on historical animosities and hatred between the different ethnic and religious groups.
The US and NATO did not instigate Yugoslav wars although it took them long enough to do anything about it as they dithered.

For someone that trots out names like Ustashe, Chetniks, Tito, Draza Mihailovic or Ante Pavelic you made a major boo boo when you claimed the war started in 95.

Chrongen wrote: »

Fair enough. Internet was still well and truly established then albeit to tech nerds in the workplace.

IMHO you display how the internet is wasted on some.

Chrongen

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

Sweden isn’t in NATO. So what is the connection if what you say is true? Why should it reap the fallout of foreign wars?

I never said Sweden was in NATO. But the entire continent is reaping the fallout in the form of refugees and a mass humanitarian crisis from NATO's Balkan and Middle East Wars. A child could see that.
Macedonia isn't in NATO either yet hosts 2 Syrian refugee camps.

humberklog

Chrongen wrote: »

The main reason for the war was for NATO to fragment the country and pull it out of Rissia's orbit, a country with whom it was a natural ally for decades.

.

Whoooah there now. Yugoslavia was always an outlier of the USSR and Warsaw Pact countries.

Tito and Stalin were famously at loggerheads to the point the Yugoslavia was expelled from the International association of socialist states from '48 to '55(ish). During that time its neighbours (Hungary etc.) were encouraged by the USSR to arm themselves ready for war with Yugoslavia.
It was only after Stalin's death in '53 that an attempt at rebuilding diplomacy began in earnest but Yugoslavia never really lost its suspicion of Warsaw Pact coutries.
Yugoslavia held them with as much regard as it did NATO.

Chrongen

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh wrong wrong wrong.

Yugoslavia was exhibiting armed strive in late 1990 when Serbs in Croatian Krajina formed armed resistance against Croatian police.
Then it really kicked off in 1991 when Slovenia and more importantly Croatia broke away from Yugoslavia and declared independence.
Then the sh** really hit the fan in late 91 and early 92 with recognition of new republics and breakaway of Bosnia.
Serbs in Bosnia declared their own republic that would maintain links with Serbia itself and the Croats, Bosniacs and Serbs started carving up Bosnia.

And it was December 95 before Dayton was agreed.
And that other genocide, that we were told would never happen again, kicked off in Rwanda during the Yugoslav wars.



I will try and say this as nice as I can ...
You prove the theory that the more you let some people speak the more they illustrate their lack of knowledge and understanding.

Where the fook are you getting some of this shyte from ?
Do you have any concept of what Yugoslavia was like under Tito and how he kept a lid on historical animosities and hatred between the different ethnic and religious groups.
The US and NATO did not instigate Yugoslav wars although it took them long enough to do anything about it as they dithered.

For someone that trots out names like Ustashe, Chetniks, Tito, Draza Mihailovic or Ante Pavelic you made a major boo boo when you claimed the war started in 95.




IMHO you display how the internet is wasted on some.

Relax mayo, I got my 95 date wrong. My best friend was stationed in Bosnia in 1994. In 1995 I was reading Misha Glenny's book The Fall of Yugoslavia around about the time of the first NATO bombardment of Serbia. This was followed by another attack in 1999 so the war certainly didn't end in 95.

The roots of this conflict go a lot deeper and earlier than 1991 but that was a pivotal moment in the coming to fruition of external interference and the stoking of tensions. It was at the beginning of the Maastricht Summit in 1991 that Helmut Kohl expressed his desire to break up Yugoslavia into piece and recognise the independence of Croatia and Slovenia. As early as 1979 the BND had been sending agents to Yugoslavia to support Franjo Tudjman and stoke up ethnic hatreds.
Nearly every Serb family lost a member during the Nazi reign of terror in Yugoslavia in 1941 to 1945 so when Tudjman and Izetbegovic a Muslim Nazi collaborator were favoured it spread panic.
Germany had never acknowledged the existence of Yugoslavia and wanted to pull Croatia and Slovenia into its economic control. The IMF played their usual part in wrecking the Yugoslav economy by imposing draconian sanctions in 1989.

Do we see a familiar pattern here? Destabilisation, economic sanctions, stoking of ethnic tensions / divide and conquer, a pattern of incessant propaganda and ultimately war.

FTA69

I'm as left as they come but a huge factor in the start of the Yugoslav troubles was the Serbs doing the bollix after the fall of Communism. Also the Croats were as bad and some terrible stuff happened on all sides. It wasn't magicked up by NATO or whoever. There's a great documentary about it on Youtube called The Death of Yugoslavia.

Fascinating stuff.

markodaly

Chrongen wrote: »

I know 10 times more about the Balkan War than you do.

I very much doubt it with your ignorant comment above.

The main reason for the war was for NATO to fragment the country and pull it out of Rissia's orbit, a country with whom it was a natural ally for decades.

Eh no. The main reason for the war was a resurgence of Serb and Croat nationalism after the break up of the Soviet Union and the ethnic mix, especially in Bosnia which caused that war being the longest and bloodiest of the lot.

I can pretty much tell that all you know about the war is a few propaganda pieces, a few names like Mladic and Milosevic and the odd massacre like Srebrenica. You know nothing about the country and how it all meshed together. You know nothing about the Ustashe, Chetniks, Tito, Draza Mihailovic or Ante Pavelic. So just go away.

Oh, OK. Im reading propaganda, while your know 'The Truth'. I guess its easy to blame NATO or the Americans so instead of telling the truth closer to home. I see you probably have skin in the game. Should I be woke and watch RT? :pac:

Fox_In_Socks

Chrongen wrote: »

I never said Sweden was in NATO. But the entire continent is reaping the fallout in the form of refugees and a mass humanitarian crisis from NATO's Balkan and Middle East Wars. A child could see that.
Macedonia isn't in NATO either yet hosts 2 Syrian refugee camps.

That’s true and I see your point. What is to be done in your opinion? How should Swedish society organise itself now that it has a huge amount of immigrants? What about the naturally conservative swathe of people who like order and borders?

Fox_In_Socks

Chrongen wrote: »

Relax mayo, I got my 95 date wrong. My best friend was stationed in Bosnia in 1994. In 1995 I was reading Misha Glenny's book The Fall of Yugoslavia around about the time of the first NATO bombardment of Serbia. This was followed by another attack in 1999 so the war certainly didn't end in 95.

The roots of this conflict go a lot deeper and earlier than 1991 but that was a pivotal moment in the coming to fruition of external interference and the stoking of tensions. It was at the beginning of the Maastricht Summit in 1991 that Helmut Kohl expressed his desire to break up Yugoslavia into piece and recognise the independence of Croatia and Slovenia. As early as 1979 the BND had been sending agents to Yugoslavia to support Franjo Tudjman and stoke up ethnic hatreds.
Nearly every Serb family lost a member during the Nazi reign of terror in Yugoslavia in 1941 to 1945 so when Tudjman and Izetbegovic a Muslim Nazi collaborator were favoured it spread panic.
Germany had never acknowledged the existence of Yugoslavia and wanted to pull Croatia and Slovenia into its economic control. The IMF played their usual part in wrecking the Yugoslav economy by imposing draconian sanctions in 1989.

Do we see a familiar pattern here? Destabilisation, economic sanctions, stoking of ethnic tensions / divide and conquer, a pattern of incessant propaganda and ultimately war.

To be fair, the peoples in the Balkans have been warring with each other for a lot longer than the Nazi era. Pre Ottoman, the battles of Kosovo etc. It’s not entirely truthful of you to focus just on such recent events has politicalling has gone on for centuries. It’s not called The tinderbox of Europe for nothing.

Yugoslavia was always a stitched together mess of a place. Tito held it together through some pretty authoritating methods...
Not attacking you personally btw.

jmayo

Chrongen wrote: »

Relax mayo, I got my 95 date wrong. My best friend was stationed in Bosnia in 1994. In 1995 I was reading Misha Glenny's book The Fall of Yugoslavia around about the time of the first NATO bombardment of Serbia. This was followed by another attack in 1999 so the war certainly didn't end in 95.

Ehh that is affectionately known as the Kosovo war and Kosovo was not a Yugoslav republic unlike the entities like Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro.
It was an Autonomous Province within Serbia and it's big differentiation was the muslim Albanian population as opposed to the majority Serb population of Serbia.

Chrongen wrote: »

The roots of this conflict go a lot deeper and earlier than 1991 but that was a pivotal moment in the coming to fruition of external interference and the stoking of tensions. It was at the beginning of the Maastricht Summit in 1991 that Helmut Kohl expressed his desire to break up Yugoslavia into piece and recognise the independence of Croatia and Slovenia.

I do agree that Germany were very quick to recognise Croatia and I joked at the time their fondness for their old allies.

Chrongen wrote: »

As early as 1979 the BND had been sending agents to Yugoslavia to support Franjo Tudjman and stoke up ethnic hatreds.
Nearly every Serb family lost a member during the Nazi reign of terror in Yugoslavia in 1941 to 1945 so when Tudjman and Izetbegovic a Muslim Nazi collaborator were favoured it spread panic.

I do agree that Tudjman was not a very nice guy.
I am not quiet so sure about Izetbegovic as he mustn't have been that bad if the royalist Chetniks released him and Tito's partisan communists only gave him 3 years in jail at end of war.
He never joined the Waffen SS nor was treated like a lot of German collaborators who ended up just swinging from a tree if they were lucky.
The level of retributions carried out by the partisans was enormous.
If you know your stuff as you claim you will no doubt know what they managed to do in 40 odd days in Trieste.

Chrongen wrote: »

Germany had never acknowledged the existence of Yugoslavia and wanted to pull Croatia and Slovenia into its economic control. The IMF played their usual part in wrecking the Yugoslav economy by imposing draconian sanctions in 1989.

Do we see a familiar pattern here? Destabilisation, economic sanctions, stoking of ethnic tensions / divide and conquer, a pattern of incessant propaganda and ultimately war.

There is always hidden agendas, but always blaming the yanks or the Brits can get tiresome.

The simple fact is some groups do not like each other and there are a lot of members within the groups themselves who are just looking for an excuse.
Milosevic played on ethnic tensions to get what he wanted and stay in power.
So did Tudjman who had also swapped his communist credentials for nationalism.
Hell Izetbegovic was once claimed to have said choosing between going with one or other was like like having to choose between leukaemia and a brain tumour.

Ronaldinho

March 2016

Nodin wrote: »

You could swear Western Europe was some warzone reading this cack.

Jan 2018

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden will do whatever it takes, including sending in the army...... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-violence/swedish-pm-does-not-rule-out-use-of-army-to-end-gang-violence-idUSKBN1F629L

markodaly

Ronaldinho wrote: »

March 2016


Jan 2018

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden will do whatever it takes, including sending in the army...... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-violence/swedish-pm-does-not-rule-out-use-of-army-to-end-gang-violence-idUSKBN1F629L

LOL, no wonder he changed his username.

rizzles

guys please don't worry about sweden
we have the biggest social welfare budget in the world
and literally tens of thousands of empty apartments for war refugees
open your heart and your borders good people of europe
refugees welcome in malmo/stockholm/uppsala

JenovaProject

markodaly wrote: »

LOL, no wonder he changed his username.

I never saw someone backpeddle as fast as I saw earlier.
Goalposts were moved so much he can't find them anymore.

Jurgen Klopp

markodaly wrote: »

LOL, no wonder he changed his username.

He didn't.

In fairness to the After Hours mods they started demanding that the usual suspects post proper proof to back up when they called other posters racists and if not they started carding and banning. There was a time certain posters used constantly just try to shut down posters using that tactic

Himself got a temp ban and threw the toys out of the pram about no longer staying on a site that allowed such racism and such and closed the account in a hissy fit

To be fair when I noticed the after Hours mods went from being accused of being left wing biased to also being accused of making boards stormfront lite I knew they'd started to hit the modding sweet spot

Jurgen Klopp

On Sweden tho. Even if the natives become a minority as mentioned, or close to it, it won't last long, it will end up with the nation dividing up into smaller states along ethnic/and or religious lines. Whether it will be through the vote or the rifle is another thing.

One only has to look to Yugoslavia and the Balkans to see the results of trying to contain large groups off conflicting beliefs and cultural attitudes, not only that but we still see even the current nations wishing to divide down further even today.

Sudan a recent example on its spilt due to Islamic v non Islamic conflict

I'm amazed that the Lebanon has bothered remaining together tbh.

I would wager the same will eventually happen in France, Belgium and the Netherlands too

1874

What ever was the motivation of inviting large numbers of people from completely different cultures into Sweden? I say large numbers, not the people themselves, because it seems like there was no real plan as to what place in Swedish society these invited people will fill.
Ive no doubt it was sold by politicians along the lines of how things are sold here, ie we all voted for it, was there ever a mandate to do what they did? or was it a decision made after a particular party was elected, and how did it all go down then in Sweden, did it just over time fester unseen into what it is now?
If you invite hundreds of thousands of people in, all that does is still leave millions behind in the same place and circumstances? so how does that improve things? It would be better to promote change peacefully around the world (idealistic and unrealistic I know), but what benefit has this served Sweden and native Swedes?
It just doesnt seem very well thought out.

Pepefrogok

1874 wrote: »

What ever was the motivation of inviting large numbers of people from completely different cultures into Sweden? I say large numbers, not the people themselves, because it seems like there was no real plan as to what place in Swedish society these invited people will fill.
Ive no doubt it was sold by politicians along the lines of how things are sold here, ie we all voted for it, was there ever a mandate to do what they did? or was it a decision made after a particular party was elected, and how did it all go down then in Sweden, did it just over time fester unseen into what it is now?
If you invite hundreds of thousands of people in, all that does is still leave millions behind in the same place and circumstances? so how does that improve things? It would be better to promote change peacefully around the world (idealistic and unrealistic I know), but what benefit has this served Sweden and native Swedes?
It just doesnt seem very well thought out.

To be fair the upper class liberals who have private health and send their kids to private school and live far away from the affected areas got to feel pretty good about the diversity.

Odhinn

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

On Sweden tho. Even if the natives become a minority as mentioned, or close to it, it won't last long, it will end up with the nation dividing up into smaller states along ethnic/and or religious lines. Whether it will be through the vote or the rifle is another thing.

One only has to look to Yugoslavia and the Balkans to see the results of trying to contain large groups off conflicting beliefs and cultural attitudes, not only that but we still see even the current nations wishing to divide down further even today.

Sudan a recent example on its spilt due to Islamic v non Islamic conflict

I'm amazed that the Lebanon has bothered remaining together tbh.

I would wager the same will eventually happen in France, Belgium and the Netherlands too

The only risk belgium has of splitting is into French and dutch speaking areas.

Boom_Bap

Can yiz leave out the discussion of user history, name changes and all that. It's not for discussion on any thread in After Hours.

10000maniacs

rizzles wrote: »

guys please don't worry about sweden
we have the biggest social welfare budget in the world
and literally tens of thousands of empty apartments for war refugees
open your heart and your borders good people of europe
refugees welcome in malmo/stockholm/uppsala

LOL some Swedes still have the warm fluffies even now.
I am not so much worried about Sweden rizzles.
But I hope the powers that be here in Ireland will look at the mistakes Sweden/France/Belgium have made and refrain from making the same mistakes here too. Extreme socialism/liberalism is a huge danger to Europe.

Mutant z

What the hell have the Swedes done to their own country at all what sort of feminist open border loons do they have over there at all its bad enough here but Sweden seem to have taken it to another level its absolutely crazy.

tretorn

The Germans are very upset about what has happened in their country, they really want a conversation about the amount of refugees Angela Merkel let in but they are afraid to talk about this because they are called racists by the left wing brigade. A friend is just back from Cologne and she felt very safe on the main thoroughfares but once you went off these she felt very uncomfortable. Many young German women have bought guns and are taking classes so they will know how to use them.

The Germans are very annoyed with the Governments of Poland and Hungary, they feel they have taken more than their fair of refugees and Poland and Hungary should take some too. They cant express these thoughts publicly either.

DEFTLEFTHAND

tretorn wrote: »

The Germans are very upset about what has happened in their country, they really want a conversation about the amount of refugees Angela Merkel let in but they are afraid to talk about this because they are called racists by the left wing brigade. A friend is just back from Cologne and she felt very safe on the main thoroughfares but once you went off these she felt very uncomfortable. Many young German women have bought guns and are taking classes so they will know how to use them.

The Germans are very annoyed with the Governments of Poland and Hungary, they feel they have taken more than their fair of refugees and Poland and Hungary should take some too. They cant express these thoughts publicly either.

The Poles and Hungarians were vilified at the time for their stance on this issue. The audacity of those Germans to be pissed off with them now, they can go to hell.

Ulysses Gaze

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Hungarians have a bloody history against the Ottomans so their dislike of Islam is rooted in historical ghosts from the past.

tretorn

Angela Merkel acted off her own bat though, the majority of the German people particularly the women would have looked at those hordes and hordes of young men and shivered. It is too late now for the Germans but at the same time what could Angela Merkel do. Germany also has a population in decline so Merkel probably thought she could take the best of the refugees and use them to fill labour shortages.

Its always the women who are worse affected when islam takes hold in a country. Look at whats happened to Turkey, its being dragged backwards, academics, Civil Servants and Journalists have been thrown in prison. Womens rights are being curtailed, its been suggested recently and women only public transport should be introduced and segregation of schools will be next on the agenda.The next thing will be women having to completely cover up in public, to think that up to very recently it looked like the EU would accept Turkey as a member. its frightening how fast things changed, I wouldnt go to Turkey on holiday if you paid me.

The Muslims almost succeeded in taking over Vienna so the Austrians loathe them too.The Austrians loathe the Turks and resent their presence in Austria, they particularly dislike the harrassment of Austrian women by Turkish men.

The_Kew_Tour

on Irish examiner site I saw a big scuffle on German Airport for a protest amount these new arrivals. Way Europe is going and it's coming here

1874

tretorn wrote: »

The Germans are very upset about what has happened in their country, they really want a conversation about the amount of refugees Angela Merkel let in but they are afraid to talk about this because they are called racists by the left wing brigade. A friend is just back from Cologne and she felt very safe on the main thoroughfares but once you went off these she felt very uncomfortable. Many young German women have bought guns and are taking classes so they will know how to use them.

The Germans are very annoyed with the Governments of Poland and Hungary, they feel they have taken more than their fair of refugees and Poland and Hungary should take some too. They cant express these thoughts publicly either.

Why should the Germans be annoyed at the govts of Polan and Hungary? do you mean the German Govt is annoyed at the Govts of Poland and Hungary? even then, why?

The Germans, explicitly Angela Merkel invited them in, why would that have anything to do with either of those two other countries who didnt seem to want people entering en masse and which was not wanted by their own citizens, so the German Govt is annoyed that Poland and Hungary didn't kow tow to their wishes and instead listened to their own opinion and that of their citizens, I think it was obvious to the people of those countries, likely the majority of which are not as well off as Germany, what the outcome of all this would be, they seem to have done the reasonable and sensible things, which was to curtail waves of people unchecked across their borders.