Burglary after Burglary-Modern Ireland

Yeah there really should be a Garda per shift per person in the country.

Nah. It's the revolving door of the punishment system. Get caught, get arrested, sentenced and out again within a few months.

Having more Gardai isn't going to change much. Their hands are pretty much tied. I must admit I miss the days when the Gardai would take idiots behind the station and beat the crap out of them. There was a lot less crime going on in my area then. Alas, now there isn't really any fear from criminals in performing crime. A slap on the wrist and back to business.

While I'm not suggesting going back to the part of beating up criminals by the cops, I would suggest that nothing is going to improve without batter/harsher sentencing of criminals. Make getting caught for crime something to be genuinely feared.

There's a young lady here in the village with 2 young children at home, her partner at work sometimes until quite late. My neighbor is a good friend of her.
A few months ago, there was someone sneaking around in her garden when it got dark. She was scared and rang the guards that are located in the next village. All they told her was "Well, if you're so scared then get yourself an house alarm". My neighbor went over and saw that the guy sneaking was hiding in a bush, they wouldn't go near it, because, well you never know if that person is armed. Rang the guards again to get told "ah the patrol car isn't available right now". They found out the day later from another friend that is was doing a checkpoint in a small village down the road at the same time.

We also had people with a dodgy van calling around trying to sell crap and two days later I got a text from the neighbor saying that they were snooping around in my front garden and looked into the windows. Nice when you have to be prepared that someone might want to break into your place at night.

Badly Drunk Boy

Deleted User wrote: »

While I'm not suggesting going back to the part of beating up criminals by the cops, I would suggest that nothing is going to improve without batter/harsher sentencing of criminals. Make getting caught for crime something to be genuinely feared.

Was that a Freudian slip?

testaccount123

Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Was that a Freudian slip?

Lol. Spell check I assume. Wasn't intentional.

Still...

Deleted User wrote:

While I'm not suggesting going back to the part of beating up criminals by the cops, I would suggest that nothing is going to improve without batter/harsher sentencing of criminals. Make getting caught for crime something to be genuinely feared.

Can't see that doing much to reducing crime figures, criminals have particularly complex problems that are difficult to address. It's always interesting to talk to people that have served time and those that have worked closely with them.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Can't see that doing much to reducing crime figures, criminals have particularly complex problems that are difficult to address. It's always interesting to talk to people that have served time and those that have worked closely with them.

As much as I understand that, that doesn't help the elderly people that are beaten up or stabbed in their own homes.

mikemac2

How is a garda from across the county going to know your farmyard down in the townland at the far side of the parish

Your local garda used to live in the area and might even have a house that came with their posting to their area. They knew all the local information they needed

Nothing to do with any recession, the cutbacks and closures were going on a long time before that

LirW wrote:

As much as I understand that, that doesn't help the elderly people that are beaten up or stabbed in their own homes.

I will say, that if I knew an elderly person that was in that position, my opinion would probably change, I fear for my elderly neighbours while they live alone and walk our neighbourhood, but trying to understand why these things occur, means we might prevent them from happening in the future, but remembering, crime will always exist

marno21

testaccount123 wrote: »

Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

The lack of people reporting burglaries because they know that reporting it is a waste of time likely has something to do with this statistic

But how will you prevent crime when there is no real punishment for it?
The sentences for burglary/assault are laughably small. If you'd be held hostage in your own home and would find out that the person who did this to you got a few months and was walking free after that, that would be a slap in the face.

I appreciate that there can be a lot of work done to prevent robberies. But that is currently imminent when the pre-christmas break-in olympic are ongoing and especially elderly people are targeted and assaulted in their own homes.

LirW wrote:

But how will you prevent crime when there is no real punishment for it? The sentences for burglary/assault are laughably small. If you'd be held hostage in your own home and would find out that the person who did this to you got a few months and was walking free after that, that would be a slap in the face.

Have our 'punishment' methods been working to date? Sentences can most certainly be 'laughable', but does this approach actually work, does it actually address the underlying issues?

Tabnabs

One of the three basic functions of government is the administration of justice. When the state cannot provide this most basic of service to the people, it's time to either change the government, or let the citizens defend their rights by whatever means necessary.

Macy0161

marno21 wrote: »

The lack of people reporting burglaries because they know that reporting it is a waste of time likely has something to do with this statistic

Anyone with insurance would have to report though, wouldn't they?

Tabnabs wrote:

One of the three basic functions of government is the administration of justice. When the state cannot provide this most basic of service to the people, it's time to either change the government, or let the citizens defend their rights by whatever means necessary.

Shur why not, works well in America!

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Have our 'punishment' methods been working to date? Sentences can most certainly be 'laughable', but does this approach actually work, does it actually address the underlying issues?

The underlying issue is something that can't be tackled overnight, this is a long-term process.
A long-term process isn't doing anything for a very seasonal problem that occurs. That are, at the moment, two very different things.

The current problem is that people are being attacked in their own homes, very strategical and focused attacks that pick on easy prey.
While therapy will tackle underlying issues, it takes time. There is this big, current problem, that needs to be solved asap.

BillyBobBS

This is FG's Ireland. The spin machine is in full flow and those of low intelligence fall for it. Crime, homelessness, rents, housing prices all out of control and that's before the absolute disaster that is the health service is mentioned.

LirW wrote:

The current problem is that people are being attacked in their own homes, very strategical and focused attacks that pick on easy prey. While therapy will tackle underlying issues, it takes time. There is this big, current problem, that needs to be solved asap.

This goes much much deeper than just therapy, this is a highly complex problem that involves most, if not all our social institutions and systems, it requires incredible amounts of investment, but sadly, currently that will not happen, even watching our dramatic failure of dealing with our homeless situation reveals this.

BillyBobBS wrote:

This is FG's Ireland. The spin machine is in full flow and those of low intelligence fall for it. Crime, homelessness, rents, housing prices all out of control and that's before the absolute disaster that is the health service is mentioned.

To be fair, it's not entirely, but partly, due to many factors, both internally and externally, and from many previous governmental policy failures.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This goes much much deeper than just therapy, this is a highly complex problem that involves most, if not all our social institutions and systems, it requires incredible amounts of investment, but sadly, currently that will not happen, even watching our dramatic failure of dealing with our homeless situation reveals this.

Unfortunately this leaves a lot of people, especially in rural areas with an "Us against Them" mindset. When the justice system doesn't care who will beside the people themselves?
This opens a door to dangerous grounds where people take justice matters into their own hands.

When people sucessfully defend themselves and family from intruders the chance is quite high that they'll face charges that would be worse than the ones the intruder would face.
This is where it is all broken. People don't wanna live in the "well, sh1t happens" limbo.

EDIT: I have 2 children at home, of of them a baby. If I'd have an intruder in my home, I'd make sure to protect my children's lives because nobody is going to harm or threaten them in their own home. What sad state of affairs is it when the justice system lets you down to protect you sufficiently yet you have to fear criminal charges for protecting your own kids.

tom_k

testaccount123 wrote: »

Burglary is down 26% according to the CSO

marno21 wrote: »

The lack of people reporting burglaries because they know that reporting it is a waste of time likely has something to do with this statistic

Given recent revelations I'd have some serious doubt about the accuracy of crime statistics and detection rates in this country.

I know from personal experience locally that certain crimes involving property loss remain unreported due to the feeling - rightly or wrongly - that it's pointless.

Macy0161

BillyBobBS wrote: »

This is FG's Ireland. The spin machine is in full flow and those of low intelligence fall for it. Crime, homelessness, rents, housing prices all out of control and that's before the absolute disaster that is the health service is mentioned.

Opposition parties have voted in many local authorities to reduce funding through maximum reductions in LPT. The last few weeks, water charge refunds have gone out, which is effectively more money sucked out of "the system". It's all the same pot!

Ballstein

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This goes much much deeper than just therapy, this is a highly complex problem that involves most, if not all our social institutions and systems, it requires incredible amounts of investment, but sadly, currently that will not happen, even watching our dramatic failure of dealing with our homeless situation reveals this.

You are aware that the vast, vast majority of burglaries are committed by a small few people. These individuals are well know to Gardaí and rarely grow out of it. Most of these individuals are very prolific and while I do agree that there is a wider issue at play regarding addiction, in rural Ireland at least most of these thieves are driven by good old fashioned greed as opposed to substance addiction. People talking about revolving door prisons and needing new prisons should educate themselves a little. There is loads of space in the country's prisons, most are at 80% capacity and in fact the government are closing down prisons, with the Training Unit in Mountjoy being offered to Dublin city council as a homeless shelter. This is despite the fact that it was one of the few prisons that was offering full reintegration programs and going some way to stopping reoffending.
As someone with a good knowledge of the system, I can tell you we are locking up too many people for too short a time. We need to keep prison for the serial offenders and start giving them serious, life changing sentences like 10-15 years. If your still committing crime in your 30's your not going to change and you need to be locked away from the society you cannot function within.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Can't see that doing much to reducing crime figures, criminals have particularly complex problems that are difficult to address. It's always interesting to talk to people that have served time and those that have worked closely with them.

I do know people who have served time (Just as I know plenty of Gardai), and I agree with you that there are complex problems involved... but that doesn't mean that we should be paralyzed from implementing punishments that make crime undesirable to commit.

It seems like in modern days we've become so concerned with the underlying factors or reasons why people commit crime, establishing the reasons as being within the fabric of our society, but there is little movement to actually resolving those issues. Probably because nobody has a clue how to realistically do so.

Resolving the issues within our society will take a long time to resolve even if people manage to find a way of doing so (and TBH in my lifetime, I've only seen the situation worsen rather than improve in spite of a more understanding/sympathetic society). However, this does not mean we should simply tolerate criminals and their behavior. Which is what the current system is doing.

BillyBobBS

Wanderer78 wrote: »

To be fair, it's not entirely, but partly, due to many factors, both internally and externally, and from many previous governmental policy failures.

FG have been in power since Feb 2011. We are nearing 7 years of failure from them. The "it's someone's else fault" line is no longer plausible.

GhostyMcGhost

Wanderer78 wrote: »

To be fair, it's not entirely, but partly, due to many factors, both internally and externally, and from many previous governmental policy failures.

Good aul FG. Still blaming FF

2011 was 7 years ago btw

LirW wrote:

Unfortunately this leaves a lot of people, especially in rural areas with an "Us against Them" mindset. When the justice system doesn't care who will beside the people themselves? This opens a door to dangerous grounds where people take justice matters into their own hands.

I would like to see more garda patrols, this might make it more difficult for criminals and criminal gangs to operate, not an absolute certainty to preventing crime, but something at least. But again, we 're not willing or able to do this at the moment for various reasons

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Shur why not, works well in America!

And everywhere is the same as America. We even share the same culture after all. :rolleyes:

I never understand why people jump to comparing with the US as an objection towards harsher sentencing. The US isn't Ireland. It's not even similar to other European countries. It's social and cultural development is incredibly different to ours.

But hey! if America has tried something and failed, we shouldn't ever consider implementing anything similar.