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Right to a house?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Sure the government go on about the decline of rural Ireland. take a small village that can barely survive, put 200 of them there, suddenly thats 200 off the list, houses filled and theres jobs in the form of a social office, pub, bookies, supermarket, post office. win win for all. Also probably a better quality of life not being surrounded by smack heads, lured by gangs or being constantly burgled.

    What kind of hysterical vision of Dublin do you have? Are you the guy who wrote about Conor McGregor's gangland childhood?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Where are the jobs, schools, transport links for these people?
    Can they afford cars to commute to their city based jobs?

    Idiocy

    You clearly didn't read my post correctly. I would be relocating the intergenerationally unemployed / long term unemployed. The infrastructure would be created at the same time as the social housing, bringing supply and demand simultaneously.
    Oh yeah that'll work - double the size of the village with new housing (which will still have no jobs), annoy the natives ("who are these blow ins?"), annoy the blow-ins ("we're miles from anywhere"), mess up the roll at the local national school, how far to the nearest secondary school? and so on. 'Social engineering' a problem like this by moving cohorts about the countryside is like Mao lite! ;)
    if you throw 200 additional people into an area you also throw in the services they need which provide jobs and room for additional demand for services which create jobs. Mess up the roll at a school - what are you on about.

    what do you propose ? leave them all in dublin where we can't afford to give them a gaf and they're taking up space needed by workers, but sure the luas is there.
    What kind of hysterical vision of Dublin do you have? Are you the guy who wrote about Conor McGregor's gangland childhood?
    This makes 0 sense. The only vision I have for dublin is - people who need to live there can afford to live there. People who do nothing all day don't live there which frees up space for those in need. I would even consider it a bit leftist for my usual views.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    You clearly didn't read my post correctly. I would be relocating the intergenerationally unemployed / long term unemployed. The infrastructure would be created at the same time as the social housing, bringing supply and demand simultaneously.


    if you throw 200 additional people into an area you also throw in the services they need which provide jobs and room for additional demand for services which create jobs. Mess up the roll at a school - what are you on about.

    what do you propose ? leave them all in dublin where we can't afford to give them a gaf and they're taking up space needed by workers, but sure the luas is there.


    This makes 0 sense. The only vision I have for dublin is - people who need to live there can afford to live there. People who do nothing all day don't live there which frees up space for those in need. I would even consider it a bit leftist for my usual views.

    But employment is at record highs. Surely these accepted crises aren't caused by this slim minority, (which includes the sick)?
    If there are any generationally unemployed, why aren't they being rooted out? Didn't Varadkar have a campaign?

    It's also the workers who can't afford a roof. How can we blame them? Too many high-faluting expectations, like a roof to rent?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    But employment is at record highs. Surely these accepted crises aren't caused by this slim minority, (which includes the sick)?
    If there are any generationally unemployed, why aren't they being rooted out? Didn't Varadkar have a campaign?

    It's also the workers who can't afford a roof. How can we blame them? Too many high-faluting expectations, like a roof to rent?

    My plan is to free up space in dublin for workers , so that those people can.

    being unemployed is (sadly) not a crime. Plenty of people in social housing / declared homeless have never worked, are never going to work and it is sadly not illegal. Thos people do not deserve to be housed in dublin or cork city / suburbs even if they grew up there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life



    This makes 0 sense. The only vision I have for dublin is - people who need to live there can afford to live there. People who do nothing all day don't live there which frees up space for those in need. I would even consider it a bit leftist for my usual views.

    The vision I was referring to was your fantastical nonsense about smack heads and roving gangs.

    As for your policy on the forced relocation of individuals, I have to say that strikes me as a bit 'statist' for you alright.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    The vision I was referring to was your fantastical nonsense about smack heads and roving gangs.

    As for your policy on the forced relocation of individuals, I have to say that strikes me as a bit 'statist' for you alright.

    My vision of smack heads and roaming gangs. Pal come into dublin 1 right now, like this very minute. I saw 3 heroin deals go down while driving 100 meters down foley street today. Theres about 10 junkies off their heads on talbot street at the moment. I went out for a smoke an hour ago and a roaming gang of kids stole a womans purse and are still riding round shouting racial slurs and knocking bikes into people. Come here right now and ill take an hour to show you whats actually happening in dublin.

    'forced relocation' well they could get jobs and stay in dublin, a lot of these people have already declined accommodation , holding out for a house 2 doors down from their ma.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    My vision of smack heads and roaming gangs. Pal come into dublin 1 right now, like this very minute. I saw 3 heroin deals go down while driving 100 meters down foley street today. Theres about 10 junkies off their heads on talbot street at the moment. I went out for a smoke an hour ago and a roaming gang of kids stole a womans purse and are still riding round shouting racial slurs and knocking bikes into people. Come here right now and ill take an hour to show you whats actually happening in dublin.

    Okay and you come to Dublin 8 right this minute and I'll show you streets of social housing that peaceful and quiet. Are we evens now?
    'forced relocation' well they could get jobs and stay in dublin, a lot of these people have already declined accommodation , holding out for a house 2 doors down from their ma.

    And if they don't find work, are you going to move them to one of your resettlment camps?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭christy c


    If people are avoiding work to get a 'free house', (no such thing) call the Garda, tell welfare. It's considered fraud.

    When Varadkar proposed this, you were 100 per cent behind it weren't you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Okay and you come to Dublin 8 right this minute and I'll show you streets of social housing that peaceful and quiet. Are we evens now?



    And if they don't find work, are you going to move them to one of your resettlment camps?

    SOcial housing for low income workers (like I'm sure your D8 street is filled with) is fine, nobody including myself has taken issue with it. What I want to do is take all the permanently unemployed , the trouble makers, the smack heads etc… and spread them out all across the country. Give the current social housing stock in dublin to those with a need, who work.

    putting somebody in a social house in portlaoise is hardly a resettlement camp.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    SOcial housing for low income workers (like I'm sure your D8 street is filled with) is fine, nobody including myself has taken issue with it. What I want to do is take all the permanently unemployed , the trouble makers, the smack heads etc… and spread them out all across the country. Give the current social housing stock in dublin to those with a need, who work.

    putting somebody in a social house in portlaoise is hardly a resettlement camp.

    Mate Dublin 8 is an unemployment blackspot.

    And what on earth does moving someone to Portlaoise achieve? And what about the residents of Portlaoise? I'm sure they will be thrilled to now that they are being used as a reciptical for Dublin's 'undesirables'.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,069 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    PJW wrote:
    I can’t understand how “families†in emergency accommodation feel they have a right to a house and it’s the right of the government bodies to get them one.


    I'm 50 in a few days and it's been like this all my life.

    It's the housing shortage and inactivity of the government for the last 6 years that has increased the numbers to almost 9000 people. When we had a small amount homelessness you just didn't notice the people looking for housing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    My plan is to free up space in dublin for workers , so that those people can.

    being unemployed is (sadly) not a crime. Plenty of people in social housing / declared homeless have never worked, are never going to work and it is sadly not illegal. Thos people do not deserve to be housed in dublin or cork city / suburbs even if they grew up there.

    You seem very misinformed.

    Welfare isn't given out unless people are unable to work due to illness or out of work and can show they are seeking work. Maybe they need ramp up this vetting process, but there is a process.

    Houses aren't given for free. Homes (use to be commonly) are allocated to people based on need and they are charged rent based on their income.

    So lets look at it; your whinge is regarding a minority out of work, who don't wish to work, who haven't for generations, who have a free house and avoided the authorities by continuously defrauding the state? How many of them do you think there might be?
    Would you say they cause more or less problems for the housing crisis than a government using NAMA monies to back private developers, in turn assisting that house prices remain artificially high?

    Jesus wept, if unemployment were a crime employers would be charged with aiding and abetting anytime they let any one go for mere profit margin reasons, but that might sour your workhouse utopia.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,555 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    In fairness i think Murphy is doing his best and that fella with the beard in the audience shouting at him just made himself look stupid.

    I'm all for giving people a fair shake but none of the people in the programme seemed to want to make any effort to get themselves out of the situation they are in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Mate Dublin 8 is an unemployment blackspot.

    And what on earth does moving someone to Portlaoise achieve? And what about the residents of Portlaoise? I'm sure they will be thrilled to now that they are being used as a reciptical for Dublin's 'undesirables'.

    Camps next :rolleyes:

    FG/FF would have a great country going if it weren't for those pesky Irish.
    In fairness i think Murphy is doing his best and that fella with the beard in the audience shouting at him just made himself look stupid.

    I'm all for giving people a fair shake but none of the people in the programme seemed to want to make any effort to get themselves out of the situation they are in.

    At what?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    In fairness i think Murphy is doing his best and that fella with the beard in the audience shouting at him just made himself look stupid.

    I'm all for giving people a fair shake but none of the people in the programme seemed to want to make any effort to get themselves out of the situation they are in.

    This is the biggest problem, always with the hand out, no personal responsibility, no desire to try and pick themselves up. Always somebody else's fault.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    This is the biggest problem, always with the hand out, no personal responsibility, no desire to try and pick themselves up. Always somebody else's fault.

    Even people with two average wage incomes cannot afford to buy in Dublin. Perhaps the problem is that not enough industry \ work is located outside of the pale.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    The "homeless" list is hugely inflated. When I was younger, if you couldn't afford to rent, you stayed at home until you could work. When you were working, you rented and saved, and then if as house in an area was above what you could afford, you went somewhere you could afford. And you didn't have children unless you had somewhere to call home, even rented

    "Homeless" now seems to include those who want to push themselves up a list. They leave home and declare themselves "homeless" and wait to be handed something . There was a case recently where a woman left Dublin and moved to Carlow.Demanded a house on arrival there ahead of everyone else on the waiting lisr, even though her parents already had a house and plenty space for her and her child. A tent appeared outside council offices and certain interests groups rowed in behind this."Friends" threatened council staff and gardaí were called, so then according to her, the gardaí were wrong too.Only wanted a house where she chose. Took the council to court for not giving her a house on the spot.If you were truly desperate and really homeless, wouldn't you take any place offered?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Is it not the norm of cities as they grow? The center becomes the business hub and home of the wealthy while the general population gets pushed to the suburbs. That's how most functional well designed cities operate.

    The problem is Dublin's outskirts are already massive and the majority of these people want to stay central. In a house no less. A free apartment is not good enough it seems.

    It's the same people who oppose high rise buildings in the city center because they grew up in houses around there and want it to stay that way. Sorry but it doesn't work that way and our government are bigger idiots for listening to it.

    Yes people who work in low paying jobs in the city center should have affordable options to live near their workplace. Dublin city center and it's close surroundings should be devoid of bungalows. It should be at least all 5 story apartment buildings by now. Knock down the bungalows already.

    Simply by upgrading the business and housing infrastructure in the center itself will free up thousands of properties in the suburbs and massively increase the central property locations. This development should have been ongoing for at least the last 20-30 years though.

    Dublin is so far behind now. If we were going to be a tax haven for big multi nationals then there should have been agreements with these companies for the redevelopment of parts of the city center. They provide a good chunk of the financing for the development of high rise office buildings serviced by nearby high rise apartment buildings. In return they get a free lease agreement for part of the building and their tax haven but the property remains in ownership of the state.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    ..

    "Homeless" now seems to include those who want to push themselves up a list. They leave home and declare themselves "homeless" and wait to be handed something . T...

    There is no new phenomena.
    'Homeless' always had people trying to pull a fast one to get up the housing list. Citing a few stories to prove that it happens does not take away from the fact that numbers dependent on emergency accommodation are rising.

    Now this means either the rate of fraud is increasing and we don't have proper vetting in place or the economy is not serving the public, hard as that may be to comprehend for any die hard FF/FG'ers.

    Now the current government and previous government were/are of a mind that we have an actual crisis, not a fraud/criminal crisis and they're currently trying to down play it to spare their blushes. Aided and abetted by hyperbole and bluster about 'dem that want something for nothing' from the faithful.
    So this line of anecdotal evidence regarding spongers etc. being in any way a major cause, just doesn't hold water.

    It makes no sense to concentrate on this and ignore the government mishandling of the crisis. FF/FG policy is making it worse.

    What about workers who can't pay rent without a tax payer dig out?
    What about developers with their hands out, getting NAMA loans at rates more favourable than any financial institution is willing to offer?
    These are the big issues here nobody seems willing to address.

    Using scapegoats to cover bad management and unpopular policy seems to be the Fine Gael agenda.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 boundlessSea


    I think everyone has a right to safe, warm, hygienic accommodation that is reasonably comfortable but not a home as such, if a person cannot afford to rent accommodation for their sole use they should live in shared accommodation, the state is not responsible for ensuring that everyone has their own exclusive residence, the state should help people who need support but people must take responsibility for their own lives, the possibility of eventually being able to attain exclusive accommodation is an incentive for people to work.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,965 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Mate Dublin 8 is an unemployment blackspot.

    It's moving away from that rapidly tbh.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You clearly didn't read my post correctly. I would be relocating the intergenerationally unemployed / long term unemployed. The infrastructure would be created at the same time as the social housing, bringing supply and demand simultaneously.



    So you mean you want to turn rural villages into projects (you know like Ballymun in Dublin and Knocknaheeny in Cork). Because projects have such a history of succeeding.

    So these people have no jobs, so in the main have no transport. Are you going to buy them cars?
    Their kids are now miles from any city facilities, are you going to build a pool, soccer pitches, rugby pitches?
    How are they going to get to college? You've said that you will put jobs in the area (yet to be explained), what about education. I assume that your "Jobs" will not provide enough for student digs in Dublin/Cork?

    Who is going to look after their elderly relatives, now that you have forced them out of easy reach?
    Have you planned for the extra hospital/nursing beds or carers, which will now be required in the city?

    How do you plan to integrate the city folk, who have no experience of living in the country, with the local residents?
    Are you going to build cinemas, restaurants, supermarkets yourself or are you going to wait for the market to catch up? If yourself and you going to subsidise these businesses? For how much and how long?
    Will the local residents be consulted before you drop several hundred people into their community?

    What jobs are you putting there? They will have to be non-skilled as I assume that these people will have low levels of education. How many people are you planning on moving out there, given the level of population that you will need to man a facility (why are we not able to do this for the current rural population by the way).

    What housing are you going to provide? Will this be free? Are you planning on forcing (cleansing) these people from their homes?

    You are talking absolute complete fascist horsesh1t


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    being unemployed is (sadly) not a crime.

    Now here's a thought right out of 1984


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Mate Dublin 8 is an unemployment blackspot.

    It isn't. There's 79 districts classed as unemployment blackspots. None are in Dublin 8.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Now here's a thought right out of 1984

    Bring back the workhouse


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    It isn't. There's 79 districts classed as unemployment blackspots. None are in Dublin 8.

    Apologies. When I was unemployed I received a letter informing that I was being put on a some kind of enhanced/fasttracked intervention because Dublin 8 (where I live) was a long term unemployment area, they may not have used the exact term 'unemployment blackspot' and it was several years ago now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭jd


    Owryan wrote: »

    They have strong links to the Freeman movement and other far left leaning groups but hey if it means i get a house for free I'm all in.

    OT, but the "freeman" movement would not be a leftist movement.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    On this topic here;'s an interesting long article about a phenomena that I knew nothing of until today - bussing the homeless around the Unites States to massage official figures and "get rid" of a problem in a given area (by transporting to a different one)

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,380 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    What are you blathering on about.
    Social housing is not free FFS
    It's linked to the income of the inhabitants (all, including any adult children in residence)

    Does this linkage come close to market rates? Or likely mortgage repayment rates were the house purchased at market rates?

    No council property should ever have been sold on to occupants.

    What a huge kick in the balls for everyone else paying the taxes to fund such nonsense.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    So you mean you want to turn rural villages into projects (you know like Ballymun in Dublin and Knocknaheeny in Cork). Because projects have such a history of succeeding.

    So these people have no jobs, so in the main have no transport. Are you going to buy them cars?
    Their kids are now miles from any city facilities, are you going to build a pool, soccer pitches, rugby pitches?
    How are they going to get to college? You've said that you will put jobs in the area (yet to be explained), what about education. I assume that your "Jobs" will not provide enough for student digs in Dublin/Cork?

    Who is going to look after their elderly relatives, now that you have forced them out of easy reach?
    Have you planned for the extra hospital/nursing beds or carers, which will now be required in the city?

    How do you plan to integrate the city folk, who have no experience of living in the country, with the local residents?
    Are you going to build cinemas, restaurants, supermarkets yourself or are you going to wait for the market to catch up? If yourself and you going to subsidise these businesses? For how much and how long?
    Will the local residents be consulted before you drop several hundred people into their community?

    What jobs are you putting there? They will have to be non-skilled as I assume that these people will have low levels of education. How many people are you planning on moving out there, given the level of population that you will need to man a facility (why are we not able to do this for the current rural population by the way).

    What housing are you going to provide? Will this be free? Are you planning on forcing (cleansing) these people from their homes?

    You are talking absolute complete fascist horsesh1t

    I really don't know how country people manage to get an education, some even get to college, buy food, learn to swim or produce the best GAA players in the country. Even managed to produce the odd good soccer player like Shane Long, Kevin Doyle or Seamus Coleman.


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