Nightclubs- any duty of care?

Roger Hassenforder

So there we were last night in a late bar/nightclub establishment proximal to the GPO in Cork, on our Christmas night out.

No one really drunk, except at the end of the night one of our group was rather suddenly in very poor shape, and i dont recall her knocking back the gat like some of us. (Maybe her drink might have been spiked, maybe she was just wasted, i dunno).

Anyway, while we were minding her and formulating a plan to get her home, over come the bouncers, rather forcibly push us out of the way, lift her outside and deposit her on some kegs. And walk off.

I was struck by how little they seemed to give a sh1t, and if we werent with her, (not that they knew who we were, and whether we were with her), she was in serious trouble. In fairness, a lot of patrons were asking if she was ok, which is appreciated.

Notwithstanding the whole "responsible drinking" and personal reaponsibility for owns own actions, have such bars/clubs any duty of care or responsibility towards their customers.
In 30 years of drinking, i never someone so wasted treated this badly.

Thoughts?

corner of hells

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

So there we were last night in a late bar/nightclub establishment proximal to the GPO in Cork, on our Christmas night out.

No one really drunk, except at the end of the night one of our group was rather suddenly in very poor shape, and i dont recall her knocking back the gat like some of us. (Maybe her drink might have been spiked, maybe she was just wasted, i dunno).

Anyway, while we were minding her and formulating a plan to get her home, over come the bouncers, rather forcibly push us out of the way, lift her outside and deposit her on some kegs. And walk off.

I was struck by how little they seemed to give a sh1t, and if we werent with her, (not that they knew who we were, and whether we were with her), she was in serious trouble. In fairness, a lot of patrons were asking if she was ok, which is appreciated.

Notwithstanding the whole "responsible drinking" and personal reaponsibility for owns own actions, have such bars/clubs any duty of care or responsibility towards their customers.
In 30 years of drinking, i never someone so wasted treated this badly.

Thoughts?

Are you still drunk , now ?

falinn merking

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

So there we were last night in a late bar/nightclub establishment proximal to the GPO in Cork, on our Christmas night out.

No one really drunk, except at the end of the night one of our group was rather suddenly in very poor shape, and i dont recall her knocking back the gat like some of us. (Maybe her drink might have been spiked, maybe she was just wasted, i dunno).

Anyway, while we were minding her and formulating a plan to get her home, over come the bouncers, rather forcibly push us out of the way, lift her outside and deposit her on some kegs. And walk off.

I was struck by how little they seemed to give a sh1t, and if we werent with her, (not that they knew who we were, and whether we were with her), she was in serious trouble. In fairness, a lot of patrons were asking if she was ok, which is appreciated.

Notwithstanding the whole "responsible drinking" and personal reaponsibility for owns own actions, have such bars/clubs any duty of care or responsibility towards their customers.
In 30 years of drinking, i never someone so wasted treated this badly.

Thoughts?

Yes
Vintners federation of Ireland are the lowest kind of scum.

People would be better off enjoying a drink at home.
You don't have paid thugs in your home who will use force on you if you are a distraction to their grubby business.

I hope your friend is ok.

Roger Hassenforder

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

So there we were last night in a late bar/nightclub establishment proximal to the GPO in Cork, on our Christmas night out.

No one really drunk, except at the end of the night one of our group was rather suddenly in very poor shape, and i dont recall her knocking back the gat like some of us. (Maybe her drink might have been spiked, maybe she was just wasted, i dunno).

Anyway, while we were minding her and formulating a plan to get her home, over come the bouncers, rather forcibly push us out of the way, lift her outside and deposit her on some kegs. And walk off.

I was struck by how little they seemed to give a sh1t, and if we werent with her, (not that they knew who we were, and whether we were with her), she was in serious trouble. In fairness, a lot of patrons were asking if she was ok, which is appreciated.

Notwithstanding the whole "responsible drinking" and personal reaponsibility for owns own actions, have such bars/clubs any duty of care or responsibility towards their customers.
In 30 years of drinking, i never someone so wasted treated this badly.

Thoughts?

I'd be of the opinion that if bars are going to be allowed sell mind altering drugs they should be held responsible for how the people act, not dumping the people who are too drunk onto the streets and have them damage public/other peoples property. I live near a nightclub and the bouncers just throw the drunk people out and then forget about them, which ends up in the drunk people falling against my door or damaging my car etc. Publicans should be held responsible for people who got drunk in their establishment and if they cant handle that then f**k them.

SEPT 23 1989

Must have been some kip if they keep kegs at the door

arybvtcw0eolkf

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

So there we were last night in a late bar/nightclub establishment proximal to the GPO in Cork, on our Christmas night out.

No one really drunk, except at the end of the night one of our group was rather suddenly in very poor shape, and i dont recall her knocking back the gat like some of us. (Maybe her drink might have been spiked, maybe she was just wasted, i dunno).

Anyway, while we were minding her and formulating a plan to get her home, over come the bouncers, rather forcibly push us out of the way, lift her outside and deposit her on some kegs. And walk off.

.

Sounds like a complete spoof.

But it won't deter the usual crap talk about bouncers being assholes who can't get a real job etc.. So I'll start it.

Bouncers are assholes who can't get a real job (and power trips too, don't forget that one).

Roger Hassenforder

corner of hells wrote: »

Are you still drunk , now ?

Thanks!
12 hours sleep cured me.
A bit shook though

Yamileth Sticky Romance

Yamileth Sticky Romance wrote: »

Sounds like a complete spoof.

But it won't deter the usual crap talk about bouncers being assholes who can't get a real job etc.. So I'll start it.

Bouncers are assholes who can't get a real job (and power trips too, don't forget that one).

Ban the whole alcohol industry imo

Security in general aren't bad guys though.

Roger Hassenforder

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Must have been some kip if they keep kegs at the door

They were accross the alley outside another pubs door.

falinn merking

Yamileth Sticky Romance wrote: »

Sounds like a complete spoof.

But it won't deter the usual crap talk about bouncers being assholes who can't get a real job etc.. So I'll start it.

Bouncers are assholes who can't get a real job (and power trips too, don't forget that one).

Yes they have to deal with drunks.
However they are paid from the profits of people buying these drinks.

A hand on the shoulder and a lie down on a sofa MOST drunken people will be fine for the trip home.

Roger Hassenforder

Yamileth Sticky Romance wrote: »

Sounds like a complete spoof.

But it won't deter the usual crap talk about bouncers being assholes who can't get a real job etc.. So I'll start it.

Bouncers are assholes who can't get a real job (and power trips too, don't forget that one).

Youre a bit offside here chief. It happened.
I havent suggested theyre arseholes or have limited employment options. Its a job. A lot of us have them. When we do our jobs we usually have some degree of care/interest for the people our jobs take us into contact with.

Seeing as ive triggered something i wonder are you a bouncer, and if so I'd really appreciate your view. But If thats beyond you, feel free from participating; or else cop yourself on.

hatrickpatrick

I've been a regular clubber since 2008 and I tend to get on very well with bouncers and appreciate the difficult job they do, and I'll be the first to say that a small minority of them are absolute scumbag assholes who should not be allowed to work in a field which involves interacting with and exercising authority over customers. End of story. The same kind of people who shouldn't be allowed to become Gardai, teachers, etc - nasty mindset / attitude to other humans.

The bouncers described in the OP are most certainly in the latter category. In the clubs I frequent, when somebody is clearly incapacitated in this manner, the bouncers take those people aside and make sure they're ok health wise before asking them to leave. What they did in this case is inexcusable behaviour.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Youre a bit offside here chief. It happened.
I havent suggested theyre arseholes or have limited employment options. Its a job. A lot of us have them. When we do our jobs we usually have some degree of care/interest for the people our jobs take us into contact with.

Seeing as ive triggered something i wonder are you a bouncer, and if so I'd really appreciate your view. But If thats beyond you, feel free from participating; or else cop yourself on.

A few subjects I rarely spend too much time on here, cyclists, bouncers, Israel and taxi drivers.

I've no doubt your story has an element of truth, but I find it hard to believe your friend was lifted up and thrown onto some kegs, I think that part is a spoof.

There ya go, my final say on the matter.

Hope your friends hangover isn't too bad.

Are Am Eye

They were bringing her outside for a bit of air.
Seated her on some empty kegs by the side of the pub.
A bit of cold night air can help to clear the head enough to make the journey home.
I think she should drop them in a bottle of something as a christmas present and thankyou. A bit of whatever she was drinking.

Fr_Dougal

Your friend was too drunk to remain on the premises. You read of similar instances where drunk people fall over and successfully sue for mucho 💶💶💶💶. They were right to remove her.

Roger Hassenforder

Yamileth Sticky Romance wrote: »

A few subjects I rarely spend too much time on here, cyclists, bouncers, Israel and taxi drivers.

I've no doubt your story has an element of truth, but I find it hard to believe your friend was lifted up and thrown onto some kegs, I think that part is a spoof.

There ya go, my final say on the matter.

Hope your friends hangover isn't too bad.

Before you slink off, the word used was "deposit" rather than "throw". Just to clarify and maybe obviate some suspicion you may have.

At least we've gone from "spoof" to an "maybe an element of truth". Its ok though, im just disappointed youve nothing to add (as i thought you were a bouncer) and youre not on trial.
Just wrong.

Roger Hassenforder

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Your friend was too drunk to remain on the premises. You read of similar instances where drunk people fall over and successfully sue for mucho 💶💶💶💶. They were right to remove her.

I dont necessarily disagree with you re our ridiculous compo culture, and possibly they were right to remove her.

However, have they/their employer a duty of care for someone getting into this state as a result of their service?

falinn merking

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I dont necessarily disagree with you re our ridiculous compo culture, and possibly they were right to remove her.

However, have they/their employer a duty of care for someone getting into this state as a result of their service?

You stuck to the 7up free no doubt.;)

jackboy

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

However, have they/their employer a duty of care for someone getting into this state as a result of their service?

They may have been afraid she was about to puke around the place, or on top of someone.

ArchXStanton

They got her money ha ha ha

gifted

Cork bouncers are the worst in Ireland....no idea how to talk to people ...

soups05

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Maybe her drink might have been spiked, maybe she was just wasted, i dunno

Many years ago, due to the increase is allegations of spiking, some government body undertook a study. The results were startling, out of something like 613 reported times when young "ladies" reported to A&E having been spiked, there was not one single time where blood tests revealed anything other than alcohol in their systems.

some reported having one or two drinks while the tests showed twice the legal limit. I have often been in the company of people who down many drinks, then swear they were spiked when it goes sideways.

before spiking, it was called having a bad pint. tough guy puking? last pint was sour, that's what done it.

do clubs/pubs have a duty of care, fk no. its called personal responsibility.

leggo

I'd be much more in favour of people taking personal responsibility and knowing their limits with drink. There are cases of innocent people being spiked etc, and having dealt with it myself I can tell you these stick out like a sore thumb and a lot of the time IME do get dealt with appropriately, but I'd say the stats there are similar to the stats for people who are overweight because they eat too much versus having a glandular problem. If we have to point our microscope somewhere, though, I'd point it in the direction of educating the public that drinking isn't a race to get as ****ed up as possible in the quickest amount of time.

falinn merking

soups05 wrote: »

Many years ago, due to the increase is allegations of spiking, some government body undertook a study. The results were startling, out of something like 613 reported times when young "ladies" reported to A&E having been spiked, there was not one single time where blood tests revealed anything other than alcohol in their systems.

some reported having one or two drinks while the tests showed twice the legal limit. I have often been in the company of people who down many drinks, then swear they were spiked when it goes sideways.

before spiking, it was called having a bad pint. tough guy puking? last pint was sour, that's what done it.

do clubs/pubs have a duty of care, fk no. its called personal responsibility.

Your talking rubbish I have experienced a bad pint a number times.
I just can't remember if it was the 15th or 16th pint.

I think my bad pint was spiked at least once also.:D

Mixing drinks is bad too it's called one too many.

freshpopcorn

I have no issue with drunk people being ejected from a pub/club but I have to say bouncers in Cork city can treat people badly at times.
One of them did group me very oddly on a night out a few years ago.

Roger Hassenforder

soups05 wrote: »

Many years ago, due to the increase is allegations of spiking, some government body undertook a study. The results were startling, out of something like 613 reported times when young "ladies" reported to A&E having been spiked, there was not one single time where blood tests revealed anything other than alcohol in their systems.

some reported having one or two drinks while the tests showed twice the legal limit. I have often been in the company of people who down many drinks, then swear they were spiked when it goes sideways.

before spiking, it was called having a bad pint. tough guy puking? last pint was sour, that's what done it.

do clubs/pubs have a duty of care, fk no. its called personal responsibility.

I can only take her at her word she thinks her drink was spiked, maybe its her way of coping with being mortified about being so wasted.
(Id say it was the gat myself TBH. cf. OP).

I agree with personal responsibility, its unfortunately all too often absent. We are always looking for someone to blame. Shes responsible for her condition.

But if you allow, even facilitate someone becoming so wasted on your premises, i think youve some responsibility and cant abdicate it by just removing someone outside and leaving them to their fate.

If she had been attacked/raped etc. would a court hold they failed in some duty of care i wonder.

Roger Hassenforder

Verpiss dich wrote: »

You stuck to the 7up free no doubt.;)

Suffice to any of the several "soft drinks" i had were mixers!
Nicely pissed but not arseholed wasted.

SusieBlue

There's a lot to be said for personal responsibility.

If someone is in a condition where they are a danger to themselves or to others, they have a right to remove them from the premises. They are open to all sorts of liabilities by keeping the person in there.
While the establishment are obliged not to serve anyone who is severely intoxicated, they can't be expected to know every single punters tolerance - in a lot of cases, people are fine and the next minute they're blotto.
Staff can't be expected to know where the tipping point is.
People being worse for wear and needing to be asked to leave is a regular occurrence and if they spent the night babysitting every person they threw out, they'd spend their whole nights outside minding people.

I'm guessing the bouncers saw that you and other friends were with her and thought ye were minding her and she was ok.
If not, I wouldn't be darkening their door again for abandoning a woman in that condition again.

Either way you can't blame them for removing her from the premises when she was in no fit state to be there.

hatrickpatrick

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Your friend was too drunk to remain on the premises. You read of similar instances where drunk people fall over and successfully sue for mucho 💶💶💶💶. They were right to remove her.

100% agreed. It's the manner of said removal - treating her like a piece of furniture rather than a human being - that's at issue here.

Roger Hassenforder

WhiteRoses wrote: »

There's a lot to be said for personal responsibility.

If someone is in a condition where they are a danger to themselves or to others, they have a right to remove them from the premises. They are open to all sorts of liabilities by keeping the person in there.
While the establishment are obliged not to serve anyone who is severely intoxicated, they can't be expected to know every single punters tolerance - in a lot of cases, people are fine and the next minute they're blotto.
Staff can't be expected to know where the tipping point is.
People being worse for wear and needing to be asked to leave is a regular occurrence and if they spent the night babysitting every person they threw out, they'd spend their whole nights outside minding people.

I'm guessing the bouncers saw that you and other friends were with her and thought ye were minding her and she was ok.
If not, I wouldn't be darkening their door again for abandoning a woman in that condition again.

Either way you can't blame them for removing her from the premises when she was in no fit state to be there.

Cant really disagree with anything there , shes responsible for her state. Its the actual removal itself, but chiefly the post removal abandonment thats leaving a sour taste. I doubt they knew she was with us. If a clubs staff did that to my daughter, it would be closed a few months for rebuilding.

Youre correct also. I wont be back.

SusieBlue

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Cant really disagree with anything there , shes responsible for her state. Its the actual removal itself, but chiefly the post removal abandonment thats leaving a sour taste. I doubt they knew she was with us. If a clubs staff did that to my daughter, it would be closed a few months for rebuilding.

Youre correct also. I wont be back.

The abandonment is bad form and I wouldn't be happy about that. Can only hope it isn't their standard practice, would hate to thing of vulnerable young college students in an establishment like that.
Dropping them an email/Facebook message to let them know the situation might not be the worst idea, bringing it to their attention may reduce the chances of it happening again.