taxis as public transport

ThisRegard

ELM327 wrote: »

But they are obviously so inefficient going by the detractors on this thread.
Why not get rid altogether?

Can you not distinguish between saying taxis are inefficient and the fact they're a service?

Some bus routes are terribly inefficient, why not get rid of buses altogether?

You have not yet put forward an argument as to what makes a taxi more efficient over private car journeys?

ELM327

ThisRegard wrote: »

Can you not distinguish between saying taxis are inefficient and the fact they're a service?

Some bus routes are terribly inefficient, why not get rid of buses altogether?

You have not yet put forward an argument as to what makes a taxi more efficient over private car journeys?

I've put forward multiple.
You've adjudged them as invalid and therefore disregarded them.
That's your opinion. Like arses we all have opinions.

magicbastarder

ELM327 wrote: »

I've put forward multiple.

no, you're only provided one argument.

ThisRegard

ELM327 wrote: »

I've put forward multiple.

You didn't, just the below, which is basically the same argument, which is not an argument putting a taxi journey over similar a private car journey.

ELM327 wrote: »

But that one taxi can replace 10 journeys by indiviuals.
That's 10 private cars that need to be driven and parked somewhere, then driven home again.

ELM327 wrote: »

Where do you park the other 9 cars?
And if you repeat this on a larger scale of 1000 taxis to 10000 private journeys, where do you store the 10000 private vehicles? You see why taxis work?

ELM327

Ok. If you've disregarded that argument which is perfectly valid then there's no point posting another.
And thus ends my brief foray into the commuting and transport forum.
Enjoy your circle.

magicbastarder

i think you're confusing the concepts of a 'statement' and an 'argument'.

irelandrover

You dont remove the amount of cars on the road, you reduce the amount of space needed for paking.

In order to make driving a taxi more attractive they can use the bus lanes. Otherwise they spend too long sitting in traffic to actually make money.

El Tarangu

irelandrover wrote: »

In order to make driving a taxi more attractive they can use the bus lanes. Otherwise they spend too long sitting in traffic to actually make money.

I can see why this is of benefit to taxi drivers and taxi users. But if bus is stuck in a bus lane behind a load of taxis, most of which is either carrying one passenger or even empty, I'm not sure public transport users are getting much benefit from the existence of the bus lane.

SusieBlue

bigar wrote: »

The concept of Taxis as Public Transport I will never understand. To me it is private car hire and they should be treated as such. So no use of bus lanes and no taxi stands, call out only. A lot taxi journeys are not even that far so they can be easily walked or cycled.

That's a matter of opinion. When I got my cast off and was getting used to hobbling around on my newly healed broken leg, the pain and pressure often lead me to give up walking and get taxi's somewhat short distances because I literally couldn't walk any more. I probably just looked lazy to anyone who didn't know my circumstances.

Other times, when I was in a rush, say, running late for work or a meeting, I got a taxi because I didn't have time to walk and busses/public transport are undependable at the best of times.

You are also forgetting that you are totally spoiled for choice in Dublin with public transport options. You have the luas, the dart, more cycle lanes, and two bus services, not to mention the trains.
Where I am, and for the majority of the country, we just have the bus. The bus I get each morning to work is meant to come every 10 minutes. This morning, I waited 45 minutes in the cold, no bus. I was looking up numbers for a taxi so I wouldn't be late when one eventually pulled up.

The taxi service is very much needed and depended on by a large portion of this country. It is also a source of income for many others. A lot of people would end up left in the lurch if there were no taxi ranks or taxi lanes.

The J Stands for Jay

bigar wrote: »

The concept of Taxis as Public Transport I will never understand. To me it is private car hire and they should be treated as such. So no use of bus lanes and no taxi stands, call out only. A lot taxi journeys are not even that far so they can be easily walked or cycled.

The logic that applies to taxis in bus lanes mean I should be able to drive my Avis rental in the bus lane.

El Tarangu

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Other times, when I was in a rush, say, running late for work or a meeting, I got a taxi because I didn't have time to walk and busses/public transport are undependable at the best of times.

In the case of buses in Dublin city centre, this is often as a direct result of taxis clogging up the bus lanes.

howiya

magicbastarder wrote: »

lifted from the luas thread.

may as well nail my colours to the mast - yes, taxis may provide an option to people who don't have/cant afford cars, some of the benefits of car ownership - but why should we assume those benefits should be afforded greater rights than normal private transport?

e.g. i have a car sitting in the driveway. i could choose to drive through the city centre, or get a taxi. there's no considerable benefit that a taxi provides over me driving - it's still one car ferrying one person across the city - but somehow one person being brought across the city in a car is now considered 'public transport'.

i was only once in the city in the evening since the cross-city luas started, but the experience consistently prior to that, when getting a dublin bus after 10pm, has been that the streets are choked with taxis plying for trade.

I took exception in the luas thread to the post you have quoted in your OP.

The poster works for a public transport company who won't provide services to the public during certain hours of the day. For many people, taxis are the only public transport option.

There are also other posts on this forum that suggest the dublin bus unions will argue against longer operating hours.

One additional benefit of the LCC route is now another part of Dublin has public transport beyond the hours that Dublin Bus will operate. I think the Luas runs until half 12.

While I believe taxis are an essential part of the public transport system, I don't believe they should be allowed operate in a way that impacts on the greater good. I'd stop them using bus lanes and would also remove them from college green.

The time of day at which they form the backbone of the public transport system are low in traffic volume so there should be no requirement for them to use CG or other bus lanes.

Thud

by this logic should GoCar and other car sharing rental cars be allowed use bus lanes?

Constant Curiosity

Unless you go out at night a lot, i'm sure you will agree, that majority of common people rarely use taxis, so they are NOT AN ESSENTIAL part of public transport, public transport is in public, taxi is a private transportation which most of us can't afford, especially with mental pricing like the capital and big cities. Last time i took a cab was 2 years ago from NY night party. Also, i believe taxi drivers should have tougher regulations to follow and a personal attitude test and strict gardai vetting, as the 'test' they do now is an absolute joke. I hate this profession with passion, there is a handful of lads that are genuine, but from personal observation i can assure you, this profession needs a complete overhaul!

AlekSmart

howiya wrote: »

I took exception in the luas thread to the post you have quoted in your OP.

The poster works for a public transport company who won't provide services to the public during certain hours of the day. For many people, taxis are the only public transport option.

There are also other posts on this forum that suggest the dublin bus unions will argue against longer operating hours.

One additional benefit of the LCC route is now another part of Dublin has public transport beyond the hours that Dublin Bus will operate. I think the Luas runs until half 12.

While I believe taxis are an essential part of the public transport system, I don't believe they should be allowed operate in a way that impacts on the greater good. I'd stop them using bus lanes and would also remove them from college green.

The time of day at which they form the backbone of the public transport system are low in traffic volume so there should be no requirement for them to use CG or other bus lanes.

Just to clarify my posts on this issue.

I am NOT posting as an employee of ANY PT Operator,my views are personal but informed by my,(and my passengers) recent experiences.
In no way are my views influenced by either my employer or my union membership... ok ?

The issue of extended bus Operating times,as in 24 hour Routes is very much still in the offing,with the issue of staffing having been long ago decided.

What remains is the drawing up of schedules and rosters,and the agreement of the NTA to those.

I have no problem at all in saying that the lack of a 24 hour Bus Service for so long into the 21st century is inexcusable,but progress is being made.

As it stands,my point remains that Taxis are NOT a mainstream Public Transport Service,but this could equally be addressed by the NTA,should it decide to impose a regulatory regime on the industry,in which,taxidrivers would be required to operate a certain level of service,and adhere to other rules and regulations designed to improve the Public Transport model for ALL users.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/smell-rudeness-and-overcharging-among-complaints-about-taxis-1.3187822

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/taxi-drivers-may-have-to-wear-a-uniform-under-nta-plans-428413.html

Since the tests were introduced in July 2009, only 54% of more than 9,000 applicants have passed. Of the unsuccessful candidates, just over half made no attempt to re-sit the test. On average, an applicant had to sit the test almost three times to pass.

The NTA pointed out that, unlike in some other countries, once passed there is no compulsory on-going training for Irish taxi drivers and it is rarely undertaken by licence holders.

Other areas under review are medical fitness, age restrictions, language proficiency and the requirement for taxi drivers in some larger counties to have full area knowledge.

The NTA has,in the past,referred to a preference for an ongoing Training regime for Taxidrivers similar to the Drivers Certificate of Proffessional Competency which must be undertaken by ALL Bus,Coach & Truck Drivers in the E.U.

The issues currently under discussion here relate to the very real lack of options regarding the Bus & Tram operations,both of which are MASS Transit, and therefore deserving of the fullest access to the areas currently most blighted by Taxi operations,namely the College Green,Georges St,Dawson St triangle...nobody,least of all myself is suggesting a total ban on taxi's,but for sure some form of segregation in these areas is inevitable...unless we revert to the traditional,"ah sure it'll be grand" response ?

hotmail.com

antongavrikov wrote: »

Unless you go out at night a lot, i'm sure you will agree, that majority of common people rarely use taxis, so they are NOT AN ESSENTIAL part of public transport, public transport is in public, taxi is a private transportation which most of us can't afford, especially with mental pricing like the capital and big cities. Last time i took a cab was 2 years ago from NY night party. Also, i believe taxi drivers should have tougher regulations to follow and a personal attitude test and strict gardai vetting, as the 'test' they do now is an absolute joke. I hate this profession with passion, there is a handful of lads that are genuine, but from personal observation i can assure you, this profession needs a complete overhaul!

You haven't been in a taxi in 2 years and last time it was in New York..not even Ireland.

ThisRegard

hotmail.com wrote: »

You haven't been in a taxi in 2 years and last time it was in New York..not even Ireland.

New Years I'm assuming.

Spanish Eyes

We need to give this project time to settle down a bit. It is Christmas and traffic is always awful around now. Operation Freeflow anyone?

If it turns out that the congestion is still unreal in ordinary time well then, the time will have to come for DCC or whoever is in charge to make hard decisions for the good of mass PT users. They are nagging us all the time to ditch the car, time to put their money where their mouths are.

I think taxis will have to be banned from the CG area eventually. There are just far too many of them. They are like ants.

However, am I just being negative or can you see taxis protesting by parking across the tracks on CG? Not unheard of for taxi unions to do something like this.

hotmail.com

A charge like the London one is needed to put off those determined to drive to work, to shop etc even when they often live very close to the centre and could easily walk, cycle, get a bus, luas! That should be the focus of the debate, not on taxi drivers. Taxis help to keep down car ownership. Many rely on it to get around the city and it provides an income to thousands of people.

Zebra3

Car ownership isn’t an issue, it’s the use of cars that is.

IE 222

Taxi drivers are the doing of their own misfortune. Zero support and respect for them. They are by no means a mode of public transport there classed as private hire.

They abuse the rules of the road and system continuously for their own benefit and cry fowl play anytime their pulled up on it. It baffles me how a truck or bus driver needs to sit exams and driving tests every 2 years in order to keep their licence while a taxi drivers doesn't.

Every morning I see numerous amounts of taxi drivers or their wifes clogging up the bus lane on the Finglas road while doing the school run. A ban on them using bus lanes without passengers or on the way to a pick up is needed. Something else that should be looked at is stopping them picking up and dropping off at junctions and bus stops this cause serious delays. Removing taxi ranks from high risk areas such as CG would also help in reducing their numbers from congested areas. Come 12am they have the city centre clogged up with their makeshift taxi ranks.

The only group that seems to have any kind of control on them is the DAA.

devnull

The problem is there is too much acceptance by the Gardai towards them.

I often used to see taxi drivers parking and acting illegally when I was working a night shift for a few weeks as I had to do a couple of conference calls with the US on a regular basis and often used to be on one of the last DART services.

Apart from the issues of traffic jams consisting of mostly taxis, there were many taxis parking up in illegal spots, blocking lanes, being at the front of traffic lights but stopping and blocking everyone else when they were green waiting for a fare was very commonplace, especially in College Green and the surrounding area.

If any Garda around did anything, they'd go up to the taxi driver and tell them to move and the taxi driver would move around the corner and do exactly the same thing. This has been the case for as long as I've seen any taxi drivers causing traffic issues, The Gardai simply tell them not to do it again and they just do it again somewhere else.

If they were not such a soft touch and took more of a zero tolerance towards this behaviour then maybe the taxi drivers will think twice about doing it, but since they know there is no real consequence they do it time and time again to the determent of everyone else.

Calling and waiting at bus stops is a particular problem that effects the 700/702/703/747/757 services normally telling the passengers the buses are not running/on strike/broken down and passengers must get the taxi to avoid missing their flight. Taxi driver will then try and fill his taxi up by passengers from other stops and waiting at such stops until they get enough passengers in some cases.

hotmail.com

The thread is about whether to ban taxis using the bus corridor in College Green. People who rant about taxi drivers are always people that don't use them.

hotmail.com

devnull wrote: »

The problem is there is too much acceptance by the Gardai towards them.

I often used to see taxi drivers parking and acting illegally when I was working a night shift for a few weeks as I had to do a couple of conference calls with the US on a regular basis and often used to be on one of the last DART services.

Apart from the issues of traffic jams consisting of mostly taxis, there were many taxis parking up in illegal spots, blocking lanes, being at the front of traffic lights but stopping and blocking everyone else when they were green waiting for a fare was very commonplace.

If any Garda around did anything, they'd go up to the taxi driver and tell them to move and the taxi driver would move around the corner and do exactly the same thing. This has been the case for as long as I've seen any taxi drivers causing traffic issues, The Gardai simply tell them not to do it again and they just do it again somewhere else.

If they were not such a soft touch and took more of a zero tolerance towards this behaviour then maybe the taxi drivers will think twice about doing it, but since they know there is no real consequence they do it time and time again to the determent of everyone else.

This is just a complete non issue. It might annoy you, but it's a non issue that most people don't care about. It's a working guy waiting for their fare to come out. It has hardly any bearing on traffic at all. Again, most people that use taxis understand this. Those that don't use taxis seem to get annoyed about this trivial rubbish .

Mutant z

Is there some sort of rule in place that a car cant be used as a form of public transport they ferry passengers from place to place and recieve a fee at the end of it why is it such a big deal.

IE 222

hotmail.com wrote: »

The thread is about whether to ban taxis using the bus corridor in College Green. People who rant about taxi drivers are always people that don't use them.

The overall CG issue isnt just a case of allowing access its a greater problem regarding attitudes and not following the rules. If taxis were to play by the rules we probably wouldn't be talking about banning them from CG i.e if empty taxis didn't use bus lanes. The congestion around CG results from a build up of similar issues from other areas around the city. Removing the taxi rank from CG i my view would actually give the taxis better hope of routing through CG but that idea would also be shot down as an attack on their livelihood.

BowSideChamp

Mutant z wrote: »

Is there some sort of rule in place that a car cant be used as a form of public transport they ferry passengers from place to place and recieve a fee at the end of it why is it such a big deal.

IE 222

hotmail.com wrote: »

This is just a complete non issue. It might annoy you, but it's a non issue that most people don't care about. It's a working guy waiting for their fare to come out. It has hardly any bearing on traffic at all. Again, most people that use taxis understand this. Those that don't use taxis seem to get annoyed about this trivial rubbish .

Can we take back the allocated taxi ranks then if they are just going to park up wherever they like. These ranks can be better used and help in reducing congestion.

iamtony

Yall have crazy hate for us Taxi drivers. We are public service vehicles wither you like it or not. We provide an essential service that isn't appricated till its gone.
We are very busy at present and just because we don't have someone in the car doesn't mean we aren't on are way to pick up a client, which is usually the case to be honest. But we also are used by all the hospitals etc to transport samples and blood etc, usually marked urgent, so making those journeys slower by banning us from bus lanes could have dire consequences. I ofter see members of the public looking in the back of my car if I shake my head at them to let them know I'm busy and you can hear them thinking I'm empty but it's always a case of I'm in the middle of delivering something or I'm on the way to collect a client.
One of the main reasons we are allowed in the bus lanes and private hire cars, such as limos and Hackneys are not is because we are permitted to pick members of the PUBLIC up from the side of the road. I'm sure 99.9% of you have used this service to your benefit at some stage or another.
The argument that we dont reduce the number of cars from the city is totally rediculous. If there's 10,000 taxis in Dublin doing 20 journeys a day that could possible be 200,000 car journeys looking for parking etc. We are good for the environment and it's not something that can be argued against its fact.
Do any of you have elderly parents? Well they need us more than anyone else in the city.
Cutting us off from college green would have a positive impact for the Luas but members of the public(locals and tourists) will be forced to pay more and wait longet for their taxi.
Its not our fault they put the luas where it is so why should we, and out customers be punished?
P.s traffic around college Green hasn't actually been bad, it was only the first Monday because the traffic light decided to go down but honestly it's not like I see the luas queuing up to go around the bend everyday. It has slowed traffic from Dame Street towards the college but that doesn't effect the luas at all in that direction.

iamtony

IE 222 wrote: »

The overall CG issue isnt just a case of allowing access its a greater problem regarding attitudes and not following the rules. If taxis were to play by the rules we probably wouldn't be talking about banning them from CG i.e if empty taxis didn't use bus lanes. The congestion around CG results from a build up of similar issues from other areas around the city. Removing the taxi rank from CG i my view would actually give the taxis better hope of routing through CG but that idea would also be shot down as an attack on their livelihood.

you do realise it's members of the public that benefit from Taxi Ranks right? I'd they weren't their the taxis would be driving more, causing more pollution and further adding to congestion not to mention longer wait times.