Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

Inviere

By the time the teams have gotten through 4 hours of practice sessions (FP1, FP2, & FP3), they're well clued in to pretty much everything from grip levels to race strategy. One simple change could be to eliminate FP1 & FP2 altogether, and just give the teams a single 90 minute practice session on the Saturday morning. At least then, practice would be busy, condensed & enjoyable, meaningful for the viewer, it'd introduce a lot of uncertainty for teams & drivers, and potentially greatly increase enjoyment of quali and the race itself.

Harika

Rumour time

Lance Stroll was offered to Toro Rosso – on loan – by Williams to replace Hartley, upon which Williams would promote their reserve Robert Kubica to the race seat.
Daddy Stroll, would pay to put his son in another car to prove his ability, something he cannot do in the inferior Paddy Lowe Williams.
While the Toro Rosso is not a front running car, it would give Lance Stroll a measure against the highly rated Pierre Gasly who would be his teammate.

And Rich Energy :rolleyes: will take over FI in the next days: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/rich-energy-launch-official-100m-takeover-force-india-william-storey/

Adamocovic

I still find it mad how Paul Di Resta got cut from F1. Even madder that he hasn't actually been a driver since the 2013 season! I'm not counting reserve with the occasional race.

When Force India cut him from the team I thought it was a bit harsh but they were bringing in Hulkenberg and Perez. How he didn't get a seat in any other team is beyond me though.

In his 3 years in F1 as part of Force India he averaged 40 points a season, average position was 11th and had only 6 total retirements I think.
Definitely believed he was good enough to get a race seat elsewhere after. I also think the reason he failed was either there wasn't enough finance backing or appeal for him (despite being British Lewis Hamilton and Button had that audience wrapped up) or was it to do with the fact that he fell out with his then manager, who happened to be Lewis Hamilton's father.

I know it sounds conspiracy theory like, but Paul Di Resta did fall out with Anthony Hamilton and end up sacking him around 2012/2013 (his final season at F1). He had accused Anthony of deceiving him and trying to create deals he could profit off, then Hamilton came back and filed a lawsuit against Di Resta. It eventually was settled out of court, and maybe I'm looking into it a bit much but I wonder were teams pushed off him after that ordeal.

He may not have been the best driver in the world but was a hell of a lot talented than a lot who continued to be given chances.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2018/6/tech-tuesday--2019-f1-rules-spice-up-racing.html

Here’s s quick video outlining the aero changes for next season.

Simplified front wings, standardised end plates.
Simplified brake duct aero and no blowing air out through the wheel.
Simplified and shrunken barge boards.
Bigger DRS flap
Bigger rear wing and no horizontal slits in rear wing end plate.

It will inevitably slow the cars down but if it helps them to follow and overtake ited be a great improvement

Joeface

The Lance Stroll thing , personally I don't see him as a great driver , from what I have seen in F1 over his year and a half racing ,so decided to look back at his career before F1. I dont really follow the lower grades in single seat racing ...it would consume my time.

FIA Formula 3 European Championship results for 2 season he seems like he was pretty damn good. his second season in it he was pretty dominate . While this is not a true measure of talent it does show he can drive .

Paying for his seat is his first problem and the second problem for him the Williams car is just a ball of crap . Even in the pre season the much hyped return of RK didnt get any performance form that car.Yes Williams did choose the money bringing driver . But that car is just awful and it is not something they can fix this year.

I have critised him here myself but as I watch the races and qualifying I really cannot judge if he is good or bad or just ok as a driver . He does not do well in qualifying but at the start of every race he is one of the drivers that makes huge gains . So he can start a race .
His first season he was along side Massa , he probably should have been closer to him but Vandoorne has never really been close to Alonso and I wouldnt say he should be sacked . Maybe we are linking the money critisim to a driving seat too much .

F1 one turns on money it always has and for Williams to survive they need money .

muckwarrior

Joeface wrote: »

His first season he was along side Massa , he probably should have been closer to him but Vandoorne has never really been close to Alonso and I wouldnt say he should be sacked .

Hardly a fair comparison. Alonso is arguably one of the best drivers of all time. In his prime Massa was merely above average, and he was well past his prime when racing with Stroll.

Joeface

none of them are a fair compairson .it didnt matter what pairing I choose . I could have said Perez and Ocon . but Ocon had an slight advantage he had 9 races with Manor so good foot hold before moving to Force India where for me he own'd Perez , and is doing it again this season. I choose Alonso and Vandoorne cause it was a pro and rookie and a crap car.

at the end of Strolls first season he was only 3 points behind Massa .

muckwarrior

Joeface wrote: »

at the end of Strolls first season he was only 3 points behind Massa .

Unless they're in a front running car then points aren't a good way to compare as a single result can massively skew the balance, and did in Stroll's case, in a race where Massa would have finished ahead but for a mechanical.

I can't think of many drivers on the grid who I'd bet against beating Stroll over the course of a season.

H3llR4iser

Joeface wrote: »

at the end of Strolls first season he was only 3 points behind Massa .

True, but that was with Baku's freak 3rd place - a race that, without suspension failure, Felipe would have had more than a chance of winning.

It is however true that Stroll has a lot of "negative circumstances" on his side: he made it into F1 a bit too young, in a team that's been in a steep decline and with the big "pay driver" label. Had he been part of, say, Red Bull's youth program and placed in a Toro Rosso, he'd probably been considered an up-and-coming talent.

The "pay driver" stigma is something very few drivers ever manage to get out of - most current example of this exception being Perez; There have been quite decent drivers in the past who never got judged on their driving skills if their bank account came into the way; the first coming to mind is Pedro Diniz, who often matched and beat his teammates but was considered a "rich boy playing race cars" for his entire career.

ELM327

H3llR4iser wrote: »

True, but that was with Baku's freak 3rd place - a race that, without suspension failure, Felipe would have had more than a chance of winning.

It is however true that Stroll has a lot of "negative circumstances" on his side: he made it into F1 a bit too young, in a team that's been in a steep decline and with the big "pay driver" label. Had he been part of, say, Red Bull's youth program and placed in a Toro Rosso, he'd probably been considered an up-and-coming talent.

The "pay driver" stigma is something very few drivers ever manage to get out of - most current example of this exception being Perez; There have been quite decent drivers in the past who never got judged on their driving skills if their bank account came into the way; the first coming to mind is Pedro Diniz, who often matched and beat his teammates but was considered a "rich boy playing race cars" for his entire career.

Pedro Diniz was outshone by Damon Hill at Arrows.
Hill, although has was the reigning WC at that time, could not be argued to be even in the same league as other champions of the era like Schumacher or Hakkinen.

He -diniz- was also bested by Alesi later in his career.

El_Duderino 09

Alonso and Webber both came through Minardi. I don’t think they took anyone who couldn’t pay for their seat.

cherryghost

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Hold on a second about Hartley. This is a driver who has won the Lemans 24hrs and the WEC (twice) as well as having a decent career at youth level. If that doesn't mean anything then what does??

He has a poor track record of open wheel racing throughout his career. In F1, he's had over a half season total of races and I've never seen anything impressive from him. He was a danger in Canada, and he was a danger in Azerbaijan. He got a penalty in Bahrain for a collision that was clearly his fault. He's come dead last in running cars in over 1/3 of races.

chicorytip

LIGHTNING wrote:

Hold on a second about Hartley. This is a driver who has won the Lemans 24hrs and the WEC (twice) as well as having a decent career at youth level. If that doesn't mean anything then what does??

Your talking about different categories of racing. F1 requires a higher level of ability. There are no drivers who have successfully made the switch from sportscars to single seaters. Those that fail to perform to an adequate standard in F1 end up in Indy, Dtm or WEC. The LeMans 24 hr. is an exception, a unique race, which the best grand prix drivers would all like to participate in and win.

cherryghost

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Pure crap

He won the European Formula Renault series which is a extremely competitive series. That year had Charles Pic, Daniel Ricc, Oliver Turvey and Jules Bianchi in it too. He also came 3rd in the British F3 which again is extremely tough.

I'm not saying he's a terrible driver. He clearly doesn't cut F1 when he's almost consistently being out performed by his teammate, and coming last in as many races (even behind Ericsson) is pretty bad.

Anyway there's been rumours floating around the last few weeks that he may be replaced. Marko says he'll be in France for now.

Joeface

I took a quick look at wiki and removed the points totals for Lance and Massa

He finished in the points 7 times in his first season not bad really and Massa finished 13 times in the points ,
Now I am only looking at races where both finished for a head to head which is 13 races over the season. Massa had 3 races where he didnt finish and Stroll had 4 .
Over these 13 Races its 9 to 4 for Massa which I would expect . All 4 of strolls came in the second half of the season which is what you would should see from someone adjusting to the standard.

I think I hate this guy unfairly . Is he a great driver = NO , is he a crap Driver , no he is not . He will probably never compete with the front . the money has tainted him.
I still dont like him . his hands are too twitchy behind the wheel for me

Adamocovic

Stroll just has an attitude I dislike, I think many do. Whenever it cuts to his radio during a race I know it's something that will annoy me.

Hamilton has the similar attitude on the radio at times but he has proven enough and has enough talent to get away with it. Stroll on the other hand hasn't.

He's a talented driver, not disagreeing with that, but the backing is a big factor in his career and his attitude just puts me off him.

mickdw

Adamocovic wrote: »

Stroll just has an attitude I dislike, I think many do. Whenever it cuts to his radio during a race I know it's something that will annoy me.

Hamilton has the similar attitude on the radio at times but he has proven enough and has enough talent to get away with it. Stroll on the other hand hasn't.

He's a talented driver, not disagreeing with that, but the backing is a big factor in his career and his attitude just puts me off him.

I couldn't agree more. He is a spoiled brat. I liked him early on and thought people condemning his driving were abit premature as he had reasonable results but this year I find when on the radio he comes across like an asshole. One thing I remember was when he radiod the garage to say head rest is loose. Engineers says if its a safety issue come in, he responds saying its not a safety issue just f***ing fix it or some such in a very whining tone as if they had put him out with a loose headrest on purpose.

Conservatory

Joeface wrote: »

I could have said Perez and Ocon . but Ocon had an slight advantage he had 9 races with Manor so good foot hold before moving to Force India where for me he own'd Perez , and is doing it again this season .

What makes you say this? Perez had a knock last week and a really long pit stop the week before. Apart from that if it hasn’t been close it’s been Perez for most of it.

Adamocovic

I know it's an unusual thing to say, and probably said before, but on the topic of rookie drivers Leclerc's crash to me was big sign of his driving abilities, ironically enough!

When he realised he was having brake failures and was going to hit Hartley, he made a smart calm move riding up on the kerb and trying to reduce the impact to Hartley. Gas to say but I was really surprised/impressed by it. I imagine most rookie drivers and some more experienced just flat out panic a bit or brace for impact when they are driving fast behind someone and the realise the brakes are gone.

I know David Coulthard when he saw the clip of the crash was heaping praise on Leclerc, maybe sways me too because I'm a Coulthard fan. I know it's pretty well established Leclerc is one of the most exciting and promising young drivers in F1 but I think being able to make good on the spot decisions while remaining calm are traits that differentiate a decent F1 driver and a great F1 driver. And that moment showed some promising signs.

tigerboon

Adamocovic wrote: »

He may not have been the best driver in the world but was a hell of a lot talented than a lot who continued to be given chances.

As is shown by his DTM performances.

Adamocovic

tigerboon wrote: »

As is shown by his DTM performances.

Very different style of racing to compare with F1.

He is doing well and currently is trying to add his second DTM championship. Would love him to do it. He's behind Timo Glock! (rolling back the years with that one!)

Pascal Wehrlein is competing in it to but he's a bit further back in 8th.

Joeface

Conservatory wrote: »

What makes you say this? Perez had a knock last week and a really long pit stop the week before. Apart from that if it hasn’t been close it’s been Perez for most of it.

I was not basing this on a single race or event , For me and I stress for me Perez while good was made look a little ordinary by Ocon last season.The first part of the season is all perez but as it goes on Ocon turns it round and second half is all Ocon for Force india. Kept Perez on his toes. I wouldnt be at all surprised if he finishes ahead of him this season.

http://grandprixrankings.com/compare/2017-f1/ocon-versus-perez/

AMKC

So Pirelli are pushing for F1 to have 18'' wheels from 2021. They say it would be more in line what modern road cars use and the current wheels are outdated.

They also say they are not interested in a bidding war if another tyre manufacture comes in.

It is rumoured if Pirelli do not renew there contract after next year the Hankook come to replace them as they had meetings with the FIA before about being F1s tyre supplier.


What are people opinions on this?

I think maybe 15 or 16'' wheels for a few years then bigger if they really need to.

It would add a lot more to the cost of the suspensions for the teams do. I have no problem with the current wheels and tyres myself. If it ain't broke why try fix it.

Conservatory

It might increase unpredictability if they had a number of tyre manufacturers competing each week as well. You could have a tyre championship too. Maybe each team has to rotate each week or something or the fastest lap in qualifying is the tyres they use for the race.

It’s getting to the stage where I will accept any crackpot idea to shake things up a bit.

cherryghost

It's 3 years away. I'd rather be thinking ahead in shorter term as a spectator of the sport. Anyone super excited going into the unknown next week? Large kerbs on slow corners that can't really be cut, a few straights, 1 off a fast turn. Could be a good one!

Frank Bullitt

Apparently the Canadian GP had the lowest TV audience in years. No surprise there so.

flazio

Gintonious wrote: »

Apparently the Canadian GP had the lowest TV audience in years. No surprise there so.

Probably mostly down to the fact it was a highlights show on Channel 4 that didn't get started until after 10:30. Most of us have work in the morning, added to the fact that Sky viewers on social media would have reported it wasn't anything to write home about.

SCOOP 64

Gintonious wrote: »

Apparently the Canadian GP had the lowest TV audience in years. No surprise there so.

Way pass my bedtime on ch4 , only f1 i miss every year ,did record it but made the mistake of watching the 9 oclock news with the result at the end,
so didn't bother, told it was a boring one, Vettel from beginning to end.

muckwarrior

The racing might not be stellar this year, but by far the biggest reason for declining audiences is the migration to pay tv.

skipper_G

muckwarrior wrote: »

The racing might not be stellar this year, but by far the biggest reason for declining audiences is the migration to pay tv.

A migration was started under Bernie, he's the one who agreed Sky's exclusive contract