Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

Frank Bullitt

The lap count of the Merc and Ferrari are insane, as well as the speed.

There is your battle for the championship...again.

billybonkers

Expecting times in the 1:17 region by the final day of testing, so still lots to come as they crank up the engine tunes

meeeeh

OSI wrote: »

If he wasn't such a hot head he would have been a 4 time champion by the end of 2008, and could well have taken Lewis' spot at Mercedes and gone on to rival Schumacher's 7. Instead he decided to throw everyone around him under a bus.

Yes. He had some bad luck but he also made himself unemployable by big teams. They don't want him.

HighLine

Gintonious wrote: »

The lap count of the Merc and Ferrari are insane, as well as the speed.

There is your battle for the championship...again.

Ferrari will need to step up for such a battle. The thoughts of another year of Mercedes dominating are depressing. Even if Bottas could get his finger out, it would be a little better.

PukkaStukka

OSI wrote: »

If he wasn't such a hot head he would have been a 4 time champion by the end of 2008, and could well have taken Lewis' spot at Mercedes and gone on to rival Schumacher's 7. Instead he decided to throw everyone around him under a bus.

Largely agree with this and indeed he can be tempestuous. But who did he dish under a bus?

Cool_CM

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Largely agree with this and indeed he can be tempestuous. But who did he dish under a bus?

McLaren, Ron Dennis and Mercedes. The spying scandal looked like it was over and that McLaren hadn't acted on any of the Ferrari information until this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJCGInsVUs

This article is worth a read for a bit of background information

Essentially he threw his toys out of the pram and threatened to go to the FIA with evidence that McLaren did act on the information in their possession. By the time he retracted this threat, Ron had already gone to Max Mosley and the rest is history.

HighLine

Slightly a tangent to the above story... but I always wondered how Alonso's physio was able to work out and provide Alonso with the exact time he needed to leave the pitbox as so to impede Hamilton. Like if he was a a race engineer... fair enough... but he was a physio??

Also, although wearing the headset, there is no way the physio would be able to communicate with Alonso in the car by radio, so why was Ron so sure he was behind it when he frog marched him off the pit lane?

Harika

HighLine wrote: »

Slightly a tangent to the above story... but I always wondered how Alonso's physio was able to work out and provide Alonso with the exact time he needed to leave the pitbox as so to impede Hamilton. Like if he was a a race engineer... fair enough... but he was a physio??

Also, although wearing the headset, there is no way the physio would be able to communicate with Alonso in the car by radio, so why was Ron so sure he was behind it when he frog marched him off the pit lane?

I think he was the closest to Alonso he could shout at.

PukkaStukka

Cool_CM wrote: »

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Largely agree with this and indeed he can be tempestuous. But who did he dish under a bus?

McLaren, Ron Dennis and Mercedes. The spying scandal looked like it was over and that McLaren hadn't acted on any of the Ferrari information until this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJCGInsVUs

This article is worth a read for a bit of background information

Essentially he threw his toys out of the pram and threatened to go to the FIA with evidence that McLaren did act on the information in their possession. By the time he retracted this threat, Ron had already gone to Max Mosley and the rest is history.

I'm well aware of the above. But who did Alonso throw under a bus? Not Ron Dennis because Dennis went to the FIA himself because people within his team were very naughty.

skipper_G

Another day of testing another breakdown for McLaren

https://twitter.com/wbuxtonofficial/status/971326041162764289

Harika

They seem to have cooling issues again. I think Honda will be quiet happy with TorroRosso now, and if twitter is anything to go by, the do.

Joeface

Hamilton into the 1min 18's

1 Hamilton Mercedes 1m18.752s
2 Ricciardo Red Bull 1m19.381s
3 Vettel Ferrari 1m19.541s
4 Alonso McLaren 1m19.856s
5 Sainz Renault 1m20.042s
6 Grosjean Haas 1m20.237s
7 Ocon Force India 1m20.805s
8 Hartley Toro Rosso 1m20.834s
9 Stroll Williams 1m21.078s
10 Leclerc Sauber 1m21.196s

and Update from McLaren: an engine change is taking place. A small oil leak resulted in the failure that stopped Alonso earlier.

Joeface

times have started come down

New best time of the day from Ricciardo! It's a 1m18.047s, putting him 0.353s clear of Hamilton - and breaking Massa's 2008 (unofficial) lap record.

meeeeh

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I'm well aware of the above. But who did Alonso throw under a bus? Not Ron Dennis because Dennis went to the FIA himself because people within his team were very naughty.

My memory is not that great and I am too lazy to google. Alonso threw his toys out of the pram and threatened Dennis. It was self interest, Alonso didn't complain before that they were using stolen data, he only used it to blackmail Ron Dennis. I have very little love for Ron Dennis but he went to Fia after Alonso's blackmail because he had very few other options. Alonso is not a team player and his machiavellian approach probably lost him titles not bad luck.

PukkaStukka

OSI wrote: »

Nelson Piquet Jr., McLaren, Massa. He's the ultimate non-team player.

Piquet jnr, Flávio and Pat Symmonds all took the rap for what happened in Singapore 2008. Alonso was not found responsible and faced no sanction. He would've been chopped had there been proof so one has to consider him innocent despite being the biggest beneficiary on the day. Those who went under the bus did so because of what they did, not because Alonso threw them.

McLaren were the ones spying, again not Alonso, aided and abetted by a rogue element within the Ferrari team. How is this Alonso' s doing? Again he didn't throw them under the bus. Granted he threatened to and inspired in no part by bad faith on the part of Ron Dennis for failing to give him the promised #1 status. But Mr Dennis in fairness put his hand up. The key players were sacked, the team fined squillions and ejected from the constructors championship because what the did was utterly wrong and by a very long way. Despite this, I think they got off lightly because previous cheating by Tyrrell and BAR resulted in race bans, loss of points, fines, and exclusions. And spygate was in another league altogether.

Massa I'm not sure. He roundly outpaced the Brazilian. Don't think Alonso did anything on him other than driver faster.

PukkaStukka

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Piquet jnr, Flo and Pat Symmonds all took the rap for what happened in Singapore 2008. Alonso was not found responsible and faced no sanction. He would've been chopped had there been proof so one has to consider him innocent despite being the biggest beneficiary on the day. Those who went under the bus did so because of what they did, not because Alonso threw them.

McLaren were the ones spying, again not Alonso, aided and abetted by a rogue element within the Ferrari team. How is this Alonso' s doing? Again he didn't throw them under the bus. Granted he threatened to and inspired in no part by bad faith on the part of Ron Dennis for failing to give him the promised #1 status. But Mr Dennis in fairness put his hand up. The key players were sacked, the team fined squillions and ejected from the constructors championship because what the did was utterly wrong and by a very long way. Despite this, I think they got off lightly because previous cheating by Tyrrell and BAR resulted in race bans, loss of points, fines, and exclusions. And spygate was in another league altogether.

Massa I'm not sure. He roundly outpaced the Brazilian. Don't think Alonso did anything on him other than driver faster.

In fairness they were fined $100million and DQed from the constructors which would cost them another few 10s of million. Not sure how much further they could have gone.

Harika

https://maxf1.net/en/f1-2018-testing-top-speed-overview-honda-makes-biggest-progress-renault-teams-slowest/

Seems like Honda has catched up in Reliability and Topspeed.

PukkaStukka

Deleted User wrote: »

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Piquet jnr, Flo and Pat Symmonds all took the rap for what happened in Singapore 2008. Alonso was not found responsible and faced no sanction. He would've been chopped had there been proof so one has to consider him innocent despite being the biggest beneficiary on the day. Those who went under the bus did so because of what they did, not because Alonso threw them.

McLaren were the ones spying, again not Alonso, aided and abetted by a rogue element within the Ferrari team. How is this Alonso' s doing? Again he didn't throw them under the bus. Granted he threatened to and inspired in no part by bad faith on the part of Ron Dennis for failing to give him the promised #1 status. But Mr Dennis in fairness put his hand up. The key players were sacked, the team fined squillions and ejected from the constructors championship because what the did was utterly wrong and by a very long way. Despite this, I think they got off lightly because previous cheating by Tyrrell and BAR resulted in race bans, loss of points, fines, and exclusions. And spygate was in another league altogether.

Massa I'm not sure. He roundly outpaced the Brazilian. Don't think Alonso did anything on him other than driver faster.

In fairness they were fined $100million and DQed from the constructors which would cost them another few 10s of million. Not sure how much further they could have gone.

They could've been thrown out of the championship lock, stock and barrell like they did with Tyrell in 84. McLaren were punished quite severely as a team but without interfering with their drivers championship.

Whilst I don't think Alonso threw anyone under a bus, I do think he is a primadonna, but most of them at his level usually are. You only have to listen to them on team radio when things aren't going their way to experience this!

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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Joeface

Autosport posted yesterdays speed traps

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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PopePalpatine

Joeface wrote: »

Autosport posted yesterdays speed traps

Just in case anyone needed proof that Mercedes are sandbagging.

AMKC

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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I guess we will never know. If Mclaren had of stayed with Honda maybe they would still be having the same problems they had last year. Maybe the work relationship between Mclaren and Honda just did not work but it certainly seems to be working better for Honda and Toro Rosso.

R00ster

McLaren being trolled by Minardi. How the mighty have fallen. Could be premature, but the signs so far aren't promising

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso/status/970933130298306560

Joeface

well this will hurt also


"We may be into the final 10 minutes, but that's not putting off Hartley. A 1m19.823s puts him fifth - one place, incidentally, ahead of Alonso."

Joeface

Final times for the day

1 Ricciardo Red Bull 1m18.047s
2 Hamilton Mercedes 1m18.400s
3 Bottas Mercedes 1m18.560s
4 Vettel Ferrari 1m19.541s
5 Hartley Toro Rosso 1m19.823s
6 Alonso McLaren 1m19.856s
7 Sainz Renault 1m20.042s
8 Grosjean Haas 1m20.237s
9 Raikkonen Ferrari 1m20.242s
10 Stroll Williams 1m20.349s
11 Hulkenberg Renault 1m20.758s
12 Ocon Force India 1m20.805s
13 Leclerc Sauber 1m20.919s
14 Sirotkin Williams 1m22.350s

Infoanon

PukkaStukka wrote: »

They could've been thrown out of the championship lock, stock and barrell like they did with Tyrell in 84. McLaren were punished quite severely as a team but without interfering with their drivers championship.

Tyrells exclusion was questionable and had a lot more to do with political expediency.
McLarens fine also had a lot to do allegedly with settling old scores.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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mickdw

Max mosley tells the story that when it came to deciding what to do with mclaren at that time, Bernice, off the cuff said why not fine them 100 million dollars - An even crazier amount of money that it appears now.
They eventually decided it wasn't a bad plan as nothing less would hurt them.

AMKC

mickdw wrote: »

Max mosley tells the story that when it came to deciding what to do with mclaren at that time, Bernice, off the cuff said why not fine them 100 million dollars - An even crazier amount of money that it appears now.
They eventually decided it wasn't a bad plan as nothing less would hurt them.

You have to wonder if they had not been fined that huge sum of money would Mclaren be an even bigger team now or better yet would they have decided to go develop and build their own engines. It must have put them back a bit maybe even years by being fined a sum like that.