have teagasc got it wrong .

kerry cow

just looking at the OP , where are we now , 2yrs wiser

older by the day

It's up to one selves. You can still choose your own stocking rate and make life as easy or as hard as one choose. Problem is that input costs are catching up with the outputs every year, the farmer is literally the "squeezed middle".

amacca

older by the day wrote: »

It's up to one selves. You can still choose your own stocking rate and make life as easy or as hard as one choose. Problem is that input costs are catching up with the outputs every year, the farmer is literally the "squeezed middle".

Im coming to the conclusion the only solution is aim for little or no inputs going forward and dont be tempted back in later

Neighbour got a plan from group he was in for 10 rounds/rotation of fertiliser applications.......ffs the cost of that alone before you talk about diesel and time etc

Im aiming for whatever numbers the place can support comfortably with minimum inputs and minimum hassle and reckon ill be better off......its a joke running to stand still.

Next stop overseed "hungry" new reseeds with mixed species or min fertiliser seed mixes......

Never thought id consider introducing plantain into a field.

Bass Reeves

amacca wrote: »

Im coming to the conclusion the only solution is aim for little or no inputs going forward and dont be tempted back in later

Neighbour got a plan from group he was in for 10 rounds/rotation of fertiliser applications.......ffs the cost of that alone before you talk about diesel and time etc

Im aiming for whatever numbers the place can support comfortably with minimum inputs and minimum hassle and reckon ill be better off......its a joke running to stand still.

Next stop overseed "hungry" new reseeds with mixed species or min fertiliser seed mixes......

Never thought id consider introducing plantain into a field.

I not sure about the dairy side but they have definitely got it wrong on the beef side. Lads running to stand still. Expansion, efficiency, bulls and adlib ration.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I not sure about the dairy side but they have definitely got it wrong on the beef side. Lads running to stand still. Expansion, efficiency, bulls and adlib ration.

I farmers can't work out their enterprise for themselves they're better off not at it, same as any business.
Teagasc, IFA, bord bia are a handy excuse for bad farm management..... look at the price of store cattle, if the beef price is circa 3.60 next year everyone bar the farmer will be told they're a bollicks

20silkcut

wrangler wrote: »

I farmers can't work out their enterprise for themselves they're better off not at it, same as any business.
Teagasc, IFA, bord bia are a handy excuse for bad farm management..... look at the price of store cattle, if the beef price is circa 3.60 next year everyone bar the farmer will be told they're a bollicks

I would say that a lot of farmers in this country particularly the lower IQ ones are more influenced by what their friends and neighbours are at rather than following advice from Teagasc.
I notice myself in my locality when one lad buys a new tractor inevitably within the space of 3/4 months several more will follow often with the same model or slightly higher. To me it is the height of stupidity a prime example of the herd mentality and petty one up man ship. And it doesn’t just apply to tractors but everything from sheds to herd size to silage acreage to slurry storage etc etc. It’s all a dick measuring exercise.

Now you could argue that they are wisely using pre selection in that if it’s good enough for their neighbour it is good enough for them. And that is a sound a reason as any. But more often than not it is keeping up with the Jones and the urge to be a bit bigger than thy neighbour is definitely not a sound business model. The most successful profitable and least stressed farmers I know are the ones who don’t get caught up in anything like that.

Welding Rod

20silkcut wrote: »

I would say that a lot of farmers in this country particularly the lower IQ ones are more influenced by what their friends and neighbours are at rather than following advice from Teagasc.
I notice myself in my locality when one lad buys a new tractor inevitably within the space of 3/4 months several more will follow often with the same model or slightly higher. To me it is the height of stupidity a prime example of the herd mentality and petty one up man ship. And it doesn’t just apply to tractors but everything from sheds to herd size to silage acreage to slurry storage etc etc. It’s all a dick measuring exercise.

Now you could argue that they are wisely using pre selection in that if it’s good enough for their neighbour it is good enough for them. And that is a sound a reason as any. But more often than not it is keeping up with the Jones and the urge to be a bit bigger than thy neighbour is definitely not a sound business model. The most successful profitable and least stressed farmers I know are the ones who don’t get caught up in anything like that.

And who exactly might you be, that you are able to judge and pass public comment on the IQ of your neighbours?

20silkcut

Welding Rod wrote: »

And who exactly might you be, that you are able to judge and pass public comment on the IQ of your neighbours?

Doesn’t matter who I am.

Welding Rod

20silkcut wrote: »

Doesn’t matter who I am.

A person of high IQ .... or is that just plain old fashioned arrogance ????

davidk1394

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

20silkcut

Welding Rod wrote: »

A person of high IQ .... or is that just plain old fashioned arrogance ????

IQ is as much a variable among farmers as it is among the general population.

And I’m far from the worlds most intelligent farmer.

jaymla627

davidk1394 wrote: »

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

Considering the cap on stock relief doing the above would leave you with a lovely tax bill for increased stock value on the books over the 3 years , unless operating as a company, did he even outline that very important point our was it forgotten about

whelan2

davidk1394 wrote: »

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

Every farm is different. Apparently I could have 300 cows here. Now who is going to calve and milk them ? What happens if it rains, like now, on heavy land. No thanks.

Danzy

The last time Stores were so strong in August was 2015 off the top of my head and not fully sure they were as high.


Here are the prices for the end of August that year.
Last week of AUGUST 2015
Steers €4.05/kg
Heifers €4.15 -€4.20

Add in that inputs have jumped an incredible amount in 5 short years.

It's hard to figure out the crack in the mart the last month, for quite a few lads with cattle, the return is not the main driver, only explanation.

wrangler

davidk1394 wrote: »

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

New entrants are going to the max around here and , apart from a couple of small farms, herds of 130 would be the minimum start.
They seem to be working well, you can't say they were badly advised , but they themselves put in huge research. Two of the families had no other income so both farms had to generate two incomes each from the start .
In any business an advisers job is to maximise the potential of the business, ultimately an advisor will present projected cashflows and if you agree with them and it goes wrong it's on your own head.
A new entrant beside me is inluding accomadation for the foreigner in his development that he's going to employ and he has only 70 acres.

tabby aspreme

A neighbour of mine, who has done well for himself farming over the years, always said about Teagasc and their predecessors, that they will tell you how to spend money, not how to make money

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

New entrants are going to the max around here and , apart from a couple of small farms, herds of 130 would be the minimum start.
They seem to be working well, you can't say they were badly advised , but they themselves put in huge research. Two of the families had no other income so both farms had to generate two incomes each from the start .
In any business an advisers job is to maximise the potential of the business, ultimately an advisor will present projected cashflows and if you agree with them and it goes wrong it's on your own head.
A new entrant beside me is inluding accomadation for the foreigner in his development that he's going to employ and he has only 70 acres.

In all fairness the examples where half a million plus and the rest could be dropped to milk a few hundred cows the first year is the result of farms been mortgaged to obtain money that where probably relatively debt free before the venture into milking, so by all intent and purposes new entrants with the deeds handed over to the bank have no choice but to make it work, if tams grants weren't available and in alot of cases good sized sfp cheques coming in every October you wouldn't of had a quarter of lads flooding into milk cows

wrangler

tabby aspreme wrote: »

A neighbour of mine, who has done well for himself farming over the years, always said about Teagasc and their predecessors, that they will tell you how to spend money, not how to make money

They usually say that after making a f..k up of their own farm, they're not honest
enough to say what really happened, Isn't that my point.
Pat Wall always claimed that BSE means Blame Someone Else

amacca

wrangler wrote: »

A new entrant beside me is inluding accomadation for the foreigner in his development that he's going to employ and he has only 70 acres.

methinks he is getting ahead of himself

Fred Daly

visatorro wrote: »

You'll never get anywhere unless you push on and fall out with the neighbours. The bigger bastard you are the better you get on, simple fact of life.

There is allway somebody out there to put you on the canvas when you feel you wont to walk on people.

GrasstoMilk

davidk1394 wrote: »

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

You'll calve 130 if you've any sort of help we did a touch more than that this year, I do all the milking, calf feeding getting cows to grass etc, dad will look after cubicles, feeding, bedding and other general yard work

The fact of the matter is, if your going spending money on to convert it will be a considerable amount of money even if you keep a level head on spending.
The quickest way to get it turning money over is milk as close as possible to your planned number as quick as you can and get the herd maturing.
I know 2 guys who will be in year 3 and 4 of milking next year and will be selling surplus cows this coming spring
If you wait 5/6 years to get to your number you have a fairly young herd for those years where you're only going to get 80% of there potential production, that'll pay your bill's no doubt but you'll be leaving the most profitable part of the production behind you

If it was me again I'd have preferred to have gotten up in cow numbers quicker and have the herd relatively matured quicker

That's where the teagasc guy is coming from

wrangler

amacca wrote: »

methinks he is getting ahead of himself

It's the way he is
He's always at something,he had 4 or 5 employed as a teenager, bought land at 22, always bred E grade cattle

wrangler

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You'll calve 130 if you've any sort of help we did a touch more than that this year, I do all the milking, calf feeding getting cows to grass etc, dad will look after cubicles, feeding, bedding and other general yard work

The fact of the matter is, if your going spending money on to convert it will be a considerable amount of money even if you keep a level head on spending.
The quickest way to get it turning money over is milk as close as possible to your planned number as quick as you can and get the herd maturing.
I know 2 guys who will be in year 3 and 4 of milking next year and will be selling surplus cows this coming spring
If you wait 5/6 years to get to your number you have a fairly young herd for those years where you're only going to get 80% of there potential production, that'll pay your bill's no doubt but you'll be leaving the most profitable part of the production behind you

If it was me again I'd have preferred to have gotten up in cow numbers quicker and have the herd relatively matured quicker

That's where the teagasc guy is coming from

Most consultants, private and teagasc, are giving the same advice.
If you're depending on parents for help, they wont be able for long and then the farm will have to pay three incomes when you have to employ extra help.

kerry cow

the labour that the older generation supplies sometimes is taken for granted by the younger farmer , it will be a shock to the work load and wage bill when they are gone .
theres alot of dairy expansion do on the back of the ma and da ,
and the reality of it is if you remove this free labour and the bfp out of the profits , then things would look rather bleak on most operation .

people need to start been true to them selves .

I see in Kerry there is new farm works going on all over , you cant get a builder of steel or concrete anywhere and theres alot of them on the road so much so that theres a new one ever year .

and sad thing is that its kerry shares that are been sold to invest in the infrastructure , that's a fact , it's the plc that is benefiting from the fools that sell shares to preserve their business so as to supply milk in a more comfortable setup .

I see some of our poster boys at it .
dads working for a few bob and the kerry shares built the yard and the plc are glorifying them as low cost producers , and teagasc are in cohoots too

jaymla627

kerry cow wrote: »

the labour that the older generation supplies sometimes is taken for granted by the younger farmer , it will be a shock to the work load and wage bill when they are gone .
theres alot of dairy expansion do on the back of the ma and da ,
and the reality of it is if you remove this free labour and the bfp out of the profits , then things would look rather bleak on most operation .

people need to start been true to them selves .

I see in Kerry there is new farm works going on all over , you cant get a builder of steel or concrete anywhere and theres alot of them on the road so much so that theres a new one ever year .

and sad thing is that its kerry shares that are been sold to invest in the infrastructure , that's a fact , it's the plc that is benefiting from the fools that sell shares to preserve their business so as to supply milk in a more comfortable setup .

I see some of our poster boys at it .
dads working for a few bob and the kerry shares built the yard and the plc are glorifying them as low cost producers , and teagasc are in cohoots too

Hasn't been a cent of the sfp put into the farm here the past 7 years, has been used to set up a off-farm business that going forward will be netting 25k a year plus only needing minimal labour and little to no investment, the ole chap sees it as his pension, know of more than one case where the yearly sfp goes straight into the banks back pocket to meet loan repayments

Mooooo

A lot of assumptions in this thread. Simple enough let every one do their own thing, with or without teagasc advice.......

Siamsa Sessions

Is it a bit lazy just to tell lads to maximise the stocking rate and pump out the fertiliser?

Anyone could take on debt and do that.

I’d be expecting a lot more insight and advice if I was to pay for a Teagasc or private consultant.

There’s much more real-world advice and experience shared here on boards.ie every day of the year. But as was said above, you have to be confident enough to make up your own mind about what is worth trying on your farm

_Brian

There is massive push to support and maintain the beef industry in Ireland and expand if possible.

What lads are missing is that “the industry” doesn’t include beef farmers. The industry everyone is so adamant needs to continue is every aspect outside the farm gate. Processors, retailers, marts, feed and fertiliser suppliers. The farmer is just treated like a big cow shiite with all the flies buzzing around it feeding themselves and getting fat of it.

jaymla627

_Brian wrote: »

There is massive push to support and maintain the beef industry in Ireland and expand if possible.

What lads are missing is that “the industry” doesn’t include beef farmers. The industry everyone is so adamant needs to continue is every aspect outside the farm gate. Processors, retailers, marts, feed and fertiliser suppliers. The farmer is just treated like a big cow shiite with all the flies buzzing around it feeding themselves and getting fat of it.

Locally their is a serious wind down happening with beef farmers, places wouldn't be stocked at half the rates as a few years ago, little our no fert been spread and land just been set stocked

Dunedin

jaymla627 wrote: »

know of more than one case where the yearly sfp goes straight into the banks back pocket to meet loan repayments

I know of people who put their full salary against their mortgage........... but they have a house/home.

I’m sure in your example above that the people have something to show for it too.

What works for you might not work for me and vice versa.