have teagasc got it wrong .

kerry cow

Have teagasc got it wrong and leading us down the garden path filling our fields with high polluters .if you had a high producer cow producing 600 kg milk solids v a crossbred doing 450 kg .a cow tax and more limits are steaming down the track to derail the little cow syndrome.
It wouldnt be the first time they got it wrong .
They built in the 80s a cow shed here a fancy roofed silo shed next to it ,a big open yard for the slurry and rain water , a ramp up to the pit and the new milking palour a distance away .
Then we had the high yielding holsteins of the 90s and now the crossbreds
. They have been doing emissions test on cows with 15yrs or more and now the tax is coming .
The not so funny thing is , how fast things move these days , before you'd hear something and it would be years to implement .
Tis worrying times when you hear with no subsidies that 20 % would only be profitable .
Farming is a becoming a bit of a nonsense way of living

K.G.

pointless thread but anyway.a couple of points-i would contend it was the ai companies got it wrong more than teagasc,secondly there s alot of je crosses turning out alot more kgs of milk solids per livestock unit than fr cows.you can blame anyone you like for that but its mostly down to the farmers them selves

gozunda

kerry cow wrote: »

Have teagasc got it wrong and leading us down the garden path filling our fields with high polluters .if you had a high producer cow producing 600 kg milk solids v a crossbred doing 450 kg .a cow tax and more limits are steaming down the track to derail the little cow syndrome.
It wouldnt be the first time they got it wrong .
They built in the 80s a cow shed here a fancy roofed silo shed next to it ,a big open yard for the slurry and rain water , a ramp up to the pit and the new milking palour a distance away .
Then we had the high yielding holsteins of the 90s and now the crossbreds
. They have been doing emissions test on cows with 15yrs or more and now the tax is coming .
The not so funny thing is , how fast things move these days , before you'd hear something and it would be years to implement .
Tis worrying times when you hear with no subsidies that 20 % would only be profitable .
Farming is a becoming a bit of a nonsense way of living

Do you have a link for those emissions tests on cows?

yewtree

K.G. wrote: »

pointless thread but anyway.a couple of points-i would contend it was the ai companies got it wrong more than teagasc,secondly there s alot of je crosses turning out alot more kgs of milk solids per livestock unit than fr cows.you can blame anyone you like for that but its mostly down to the farmers them selves

+1000
A bit of self reflection would be the best thing most lads could do, teagasc didnt put a gun to anyones head to do anything.

anthony500_1

I think teagasc are like any government body, they get a pot of money each year, that needs to be spent so they create jobs run research projects and to justify the wages they then start pushing the ideas onto there members. Regardless of how right or wrong they are, if they get 1 million this year and loose it all its called industry research and they will get the same next year. Not one employee will loose there job and not one head will roll over the money spent.

They often get it right but they also get it very wrong to the downfall of the farmer, if we implement there ideas and it fails, we may be lucky and just loose profits, in worse case the farmer looses everything.

But teagasc gets a fresh pot of money next year again and they start fresh with a full bank account but the farmer has to try get back going again on his own.

I think taking bits from the model farms they run is invaluable but going full tilt into the the hole idea is a disaster.

I know my own neighbour had a smallish piggery and it was costing him we will say for ease of figures, 30 euro to produce a slaughter weight pig, and he was receiving 25 euro from the factory for same pig, and was killing 100 pigs a week, teagasc pig rep convinced him to remortgage the farm and house to "get through" the lul in the market, needles to say he lost the farm, just about kept the house and is now driving a taxi to try repay the mortgage, he is a man in his late 60s and any time you mention teagasc he would go through you for a shortcut.

I'm a paid member of teagasc, I do use the services they provide and I do listen to what they tell me, do I do everything they tell me. No

davidk1394

K.G. wrote: »

pointless thread but anyway.a couple of points-i would contend it was the ai companies got it wrong more than teagasc,secondly there s alot of je crosses turning out alot more kgs of milk solids per livestock unit than fr cows.you can blame anyone you like for that but its mostly down to the farmers them selves

Agree totally with you. A simple example is the nitrates, a lot of dairy farmers are over their derogation limits so their looking for tillage farmers maps to "spread" slurry on. A neighbour did this with another farmer and he wouldn't give him the slurry then after he giving him the maps. Do they want it all their own way ??
The IFJ did a big article about stress among dairy farmers due to increased work load, it was self inflicted by the farmer to increase the cows. What's wrong with 80-100 cows, a nice living and a good work\life balance. There's fellas around here that increased over 600% with their herds and end up with severe depression when the **** hits the fan.

kerry cow

I think teagasc has let us down with the practice of slurry spreading periods , the shouldn't be involved in research with companies like glanbia ,kerry etc for farm walks and discussion groups , greenfield etc .
Can teagasc tell me the cost of kerry processing , or any small Co op for that matter per litre , etc .
I think they should be independent from industry .
They should also come out and explain to people that their research is based on the best land in ireland ,has no mixed quality land like a lot of farmers have to deal with .
They also operate small groups of cows , with best roads , and housing facilities , have plenty of staff for all occasions and no stress on man or beast .
How are your large group of mostly a one man band herd of cows , expected to turn out a performance, on mixed land type, farm 24/7 , doing all the paper works and banking etc and we are expected to compare .
Any young guy needs to know your own farm limits .and even though you may not match what teagasc can achieve or what your Co op expect you to produce milk for or beef for that matter ,it doesn't mean your not doing a sterling job .

Gawddawggonnit

davidk1394 wrote: »

Agree totally with you. A simple example is the nitrates, a lot of dairy farmers are over their derogation limits so their looking for tillage farmers maps to "spread" slurry on. A neighbour did this with another farmer and he wouldn't give him the slurry then after he giving him the maps. Do they want it all their own way ??
.

Careful now...some truths are not to be spoken out loud. Dairy expansion does NOT contribute to nitrate leeching...

Waffletraktor

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Careful now...some truths are not to be spoken out loud. Dairy expansion does NOT contribute to nitrate leeching...

What like guys keeping granlime in their yards as a cover to go spread fertiliser out of season?

visatorro

davidk1394 wrote: »

Agree totally with you. A simple example is the nitrates, a lot of dairy farmers are over their derogation limits so their looking for tillage farmers maps to "spread" slurry on. A neighbour did this with another farmer and he wouldn't give him the slurry then after he giving him the maps. Do they want it all their own way ??
The IFJ did a big article about stress among dairy farmers due to increased work load, it was self inflicted by the farmer to increase the cows. What's wrong with 80-100 cows, a nice living and a good work\life balance. There's fellas around here that increased over 600% with their herds and end up with severe depression when the **** hits the fan.

You'll never get anywhere unless you push on and fall out with the neighbours. The bigger bastard you are the better you get on, simple fact of life.

Gawddawggonnit

kerry cow wrote: »

I think teagasc has let us down with the practice of slurry spreading periods , the shouldn't be involved in research with companies like glanbia ,kerry etc for farm walks and discussion groups , greenfield etc .
Can teagasc tell me the cost of kerry processing , or any small Co op for that matter per litre , etc .
I think they should be independent from industry .
They should also come out and explain to people that their research is based on the best land in ireland ,has no mixed quality land like a lot of farmers have to deal with .
They also operate small groups of cows , with best roads , and housing facilities , have plenty of staff for all occasions and no stress on man or beast .
How are your large group of mostly a one man band herd of cows , expected to turn out a performance, on mixed land type, farm 24/7 , doing all the paper works and banking etc and we are expected to compare .
Any young guy needs to know your own farm limits .and even though you may not match what teagasc can achieve or what your Co op expect you to produce milk for or beef for that matter ,it doesn't mean your not doing a sterling job .

I find it difficult to agree with the main points of your post.

Teagasc are a vital research facility.
They were asked by the establishment to quantify the capacity for dairy expansion in Ireland, and they did exactly as asked...did they consider the impact on nitrates, carbon emissions, labor supply? Probably not, or not deeply enough.

When you ask a research facility a question, the question/research must have many inclusive parameters...like environmental impact, non intentional consequences etc.

When asked to look at no-till, min-till and non inversion tillage, Teagasc summarized that it was a way of possibly reducing diesel consumption...

The questions that are asked are vital for a broad result on the gains/losses/conséquences/impacts etc.

Gawddawggonnit

Waffletraktor wrote: »

What like guys keeping granlime in their yards as a cover to go spread fertiliser out of season?

Oh yea, and even better, nitrogen invoiced as granlime!

Gawddawggonnit

visatorro wrote: »

You'll never get anywhere unless you push on and fall out with the neighbours. The bigger bastard you are the better you get on, simple fact of life.

Totally disagree.

patsy_mccabe

And the alternative to Teagasc is..........?

Gawddawggonnit

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

And the alternative to Teagasc is..........?

Exactly.

jaymla627

kerry cow wrote: »

Have teagasc got it wrong and leading us down the garden path filling our fields with high polluters .if you had a high producer cow producing 600 kg milk solids v a crossbred doing 450 kg .a cow tax and more limits are steaming down the track to derail the little cow syndrome.
It wouldnt be the first time they got it wrong .
They built in the 80s a cow shed here a fancy roofed silo shed next to it ,a big open yard for the slurry and rain water , a ramp up to the pit and the new milking palour a distance away .
Then we had the high yielding holsteins of the 90s and now the crossbreds
. They have been doing emissions test on cows with 15yrs or more and now the tax is coming .
The not so funny thing is , how fast things move these days , before you'd hear something and it would be years to implement .
Tis worrying times when you hear with no subsidies that 20 % would only be profitable .
Farming is a becoming a bit of a nonsense way of living

It would take a decade of retraining Irish farmers and using proper genetics to achieve a average of 600kgs of milk solids a cow delivered on a lot of farms, not getting into a ebi bashing trend our the power of grass and so forth, but the stall has been set-out and 99% of dairy farmers have opted for the teagasc route which means highly stocked farms needing derogation to survive along with cooking the books re exploring slurry and the rest....
The game is up if derogation isn't renewed and the whole mantra of what teagasc have been preaching the past 20 odd years is practically useless, would be pretty funny to be fair though seeing teagasc having to push extreme Holstein bulls like supersire and mogul on lads to try and inject a lot of milk quickly into their herds to try and get milk solids sold per cows up on farm, of course it will all fall down when they keep banging on about still using grass and a shake of nuts when extreme weather events occur our grass is scare to achieve this

farisfat

kerry cow wrote: »

Have teagasc got it wrong and leading us down the garden path filling our fields with high polluters .if you had a high producer cow producing 600 kg milk solids v a crossbred doing 450 kg .a cow tax and more limits are steaming down the track to derail the little cow syndrome.
It wouldnt be the first time they got it wrong .
They built in the 80s a cow shed here a fancy roofed silo shed next to it ,a big open yard for the slurry and rain water , a ramp up to the pit and the new milking palour a distance away .
Then we had the high yielding holsteins of the 90s and now the crossbreds
. They have been doing emissions test on cows with 15yrs or more and now the tax is coming .
The not so funny thing is , how fast things move these days , before you'd hear something and it would be years to implement .
Tis worrying times when you hear with no subsidies that 20 % would only be profitable .
Farming is a becoming a bit of a nonsense way of living

Teagasc supply the info up to you what you want to do.
Who knows what the best way forward is.
High yielding hols doing 600kgs with high inputs or a oad system doing 400kgs from clover and herb pasture.......someone here might have the answer if Teagasc don't.

kerry cow

I have no problem with teagasc once they stand independent from politics .they do a lot of good work but they are one sided and don't represent all farms across the island types .

whelan2

kerry cow wrote: »

I have no problem with teagasc once they stand independent from politics .they do a lot of good work but they are one sided and don't represent all farms across the island types .

Look it's the same as the farmers journal, not all information will suit all farmers. You read it. Wonder will it fit into your system, if it does , well and good. Otherwise forget about it. Was in Ballyhaise a few weeks ago. I was very interested in their extended grazing research as their land would be similar to mine. Turns out they were grazing cows in groups of 30. Now 30 cows wont do anywhere near the same damage as 130 cows going in and out the same gap. The cows were also crossbreds which would be lighter than friesians. Interesting research but not suitable for most farms

Buford T. Justice XIX

jaymla627 wrote: »

It would take a decade of retraining Irish farmers and using proper genetics to achieve a average of 600kgs of milk solids a cow delivered on a lot of farms, not getting into a ebi bashing trend our the power of grass and so forth, but the stall has been set-out and 99% of dairy farmers have opted for the teagasc route which means highly stocked farms needing derogation to survive along with cooking the books re exploring slurry and the rest....
The game is up if derogation isn't renewed and the whole mantra of what teagasc have been preaching the past 20 odd years is practically useless, would be pretty funny to be fair though seeing teagasc having to push extreme Holstein bulls like supersire and mogul on lads to try and inject a lot of milk quickly into their herds to try and get milk solids sold per cows up on farm, of course it will all fall down when they keep banging on about still using grass and a shake of nuts when extreme weather events occur our grass is scare to achieve this

Jaysus, jay, are you really giving out about that?:P

yewtree

There seems to be a suggestion here that teagasc are pushing very high stocking rates but their stocking rates are much lower than a lot of the stocking rates lads have here.
it tends to be smaller herds that will push stocking rates higher to achieve critical mass. A lot of large herds(over 200) i have seen have stocking rates lower than 3/lu.
the reality is tighening of nitrates would effect all systems. The idea that it would lead us back to north american genetics doesnt really stand up. There is much more to farm profit than milk yield/cow.

davidk1394

visatorro wrote: »

You'll never get anywhere unless you push on and fall out with the neighbours. The bigger bastard you are the better you get on, simple fact of life.

I dunno about that. You'll end up with a longer list of enemies than friends. There's no need to be a prick when you expand numbers

davidk1394

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

And the alternative to Teagasc is..........?

Nothing and I think we'd be better of with nothing.... well coming from the drystock side anyway.

jaymla627

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Jaysus, jay, are you really giving out about that?:P

Making a simple observation is all haha, going forward I'm not banking on being able to get away with the craic I'm at now and not making any long terms plans that hinge-on needing derogation, looking around and it's applicable to most intense dairy areas throughout Ireland huge sums of money are being pumped into farms if a lad spends the guts of a million on a greenfield site banking on running it at 3 plus cows to ha and with the stroke of a pen in Brussels this knocks it back to two the proverbial hits the fan

grassroot1

kerry cow wrote: »

I have no problem with teagasc once they stand independent from politics .they do a lot of good work but they are one sided and don't represent all farms across the island types .

It is a wonder your not giving the IFA a dig aswell

K.G.

Warning people with a certain way of thinking should not look at kevin morans clips on thats farming.could seriously damage their health.i know the gods may have been kind to him in some ways but i just love the attitude

kerry cow

grassroot1 wrote:

It is a wonder your not giving the IFA a dig aswell

Don't start me

Sac O Spuds

Teagasc loyalty lies with big business doing research and getting well rewarded for it. The income derived from advising farmers is only a fraction of the total. I can't post a link but remember reading a figure of farm advice only brought in around 12% of their total income. Plenty offices after closing in the last 10 yrs.
I'm biased In my views as my dealings with them yrs ago left a sour taste. Pen pushers working with figures on paper.

Gawddawggonnit

jaymla627 wrote: »

Making a simple observation is all haha, going forward I'm not banking on being able to get away with the craic I'm at now and not making any long terms plans that hinge-on needing derogation, looking around and it's applicable to most intense dairy areas throughout Ireland huge sums of money are being pumped into farms if a lad spends the guts of a million on a greenfield site banking on running it at 3 plus cows to ha and with the stroke of a pen in Brussels this knocks it back to two the proverbial hits the fan

+1.
There are many variables that can hit from outside the Farm gate.

Nitrates are just one. A big one.
Shame that the powers that be wait until the gun is to their head (and hammers back) before steps are taken...

The facts are that we produce enough food for 10 billion people atm, and production is rising, while the state of the environment is falling. This creates an open goal for politicians to interfere. An example.... in my neck of the woods liquid slurry production and storage is now not allowed, whether it be pigs, cows or ducks. What major consequences would that have for Irish farming?
Glyphosate is another little example. Farmers think that common sense/scientific research won out. It didn’t. Politics won out. German Green Party talks with Merkels party collapsed and therefore the German gov could vote as it pleased. France and Italy are livid, but it’s easy for them as glyphosate isn’t very important in western and Southern Europe. I’d bet that glyphosate will be gone in five yrs.

I was in Tipp on Monday for a funeral and it struck me that there


Edit. Whole load of bullcrap lost...
Had to do with the biggest landowner in Ireland farms horses...due to Haugheys tax break to stud farms.
Biggest landowner in UK is an industrialist and only involved because of inheritance tax laws.

What happens outside our gates is becoming more and more important.

pms7

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

And the alternative to Teagasc is..........?

Been on farms in Scotland, alternative is ration salesman. From what I could see there, he is more involved in the running of the farm there than any Teagasc advisor is here.

kerry cow

I think a smaller lightly stocked unit will provide a low stress levels for the farmer , land and beast .
It's all going full circle to bygone times of farming in the 60s