have teagasc got it wrong .

kerry cow

Have teagasc got it wrong and leading us down the garden path filling our fields with high polluters .if you had a high producer cow producing 600 kg milk solids v a crossbred doing 450 kg .a cow tax and more limits are steaming down the track to derail the little cow syndrome.
It wouldnt be the first time they got it wrong .
They built in the 80s a cow shed here a fancy roofed silo shed next to it ,a big open yard for the slurry and rain water , a ramp up to the pit and the new milking palour a distance away .
Then we had the high yielding holsteins of the 90s and now the crossbreds
. They have been doing emissions test on cows with 15yrs or more and now the tax is coming .
The not so funny thing is , how fast things move these days , before you'd hear something and it would be years to implement .
Tis worrying times when you hear with no subsidies that 20 % would only be profitable .
Farming is a becoming a bit of a nonsense way of living

K.G.

pointless thread but anyway.a couple of points-i would contend it was the ai companies got it wrong more than teagasc,secondly there s alot of je crosses turning out alot more kgs of milk solids per livestock unit than fr cows.you can blame anyone you like for that but its mostly down to the farmers them selves

gozunda

kerry cow wrote: »

Have teagasc got it wrong and leading us down the garden path filling our fields with high polluters .if you had a high producer cow producing 600 kg milk solids v a crossbred doing 450 kg .a cow tax and more limits are steaming down the track to derail the little cow syndrome.
It wouldnt be the first time they got it wrong .
They built in the 80s a cow shed here a fancy roofed silo shed next to it ,a big open yard for the slurry and rain water , a ramp up to the pit and the new milking palour a distance away .
Then we had the high yielding holsteins of the 90s and now the crossbreds
. They have been doing emissions test on cows with 15yrs or more and now the tax is coming .
The not so funny thing is , how fast things move these days , before you'd hear something and it would be years to implement .
Tis worrying times when you hear with no subsidies that 20 % would only be profitable .
Farming is a becoming a bit of a nonsense way of living

Do you have a link for those emissions tests on cows?

yewtree

K.G. wrote: »

pointless thread but anyway.a couple of points-i would contend it was the ai companies got it wrong more than teagasc,secondly there s alot of je crosses turning out alot more kgs of milk solids per livestock unit than fr cows.you can blame anyone you like for that but its mostly down to the farmers them selves

+1000
A bit of self reflection would be the best thing most lads could do, teagasc didnt put a gun to anyones head to do anything.

anthony500_1

I think teagasc are like any government body, they get a pot of money each year, that needs to be spent so they create jobs run research projects and to justify the wages they then start pushing the ideas onto there members. Regardless of how right or wrong they are, if they get 1 million this year and loose it all its called industry research and they will get the same next year. Not one employee will loose there job and not one head will roll over the money spent.

They often get it right but they also get it very wrong to the downfall of the farmer, if we implement there ideas and it fails, we may be lucky and just loose profits, in worse case the farmer looses everything.

But teagasc gets a fresh pot of money next year again and they start fresh with a full bank account but the farmer has to try get back going again on his own.

I think taking bits from the model farms they run is invaluable but going full tilt into the the hole idea is a disaster.

I know my own neighbour had a smallish piggery and it was costing him we will say for ease of figures, 30 euro to produce a slaughter weight pig, and he was receiving 25 euro from the factory for same pig, and was killing 100 pigs a week, teagasc pig rep convinced him to remortgage the farm and house to "get through" the lul in the market, needles to say he lost the farm, just about kept the house and is now driving a taxi to try repay the mortgage, he is a man in his late 60s and any time you mention teagasc he would go through you for a shortcut.

I'm a paid member of teagasc, I do use the services they provide and I do listen to what they tell me, do I do everything they tell me. No

davidk1394

K.G. wrote: »

pointless thread but anyway.a couple of points-i would contend it was the ai companies got it wrong more than teagasc,secondly there s alot of je crosses turning out alot more kgs of milk solids per livestock unit than fr cows.you can blame anyone you like for that but its mostly down to the farmers them selves

Agree totally with you. A simple example is the nitrates, a lot of dairy farmers are over their derogation limits so their looking for tillage farmers maps to "spread" slurry on. A neighbour did this with another farmer and he wouldn't give him the slurry then after he giving him the maps. Do they want it all their own way ??
The IFJ did a big article about stress among dairy farmers due to increased work load, it was self inflicted by the farmer to increase the cows. What's wrong with 80-100 cows, a nice living and a good work\life balance. There's fellas around here that increased over 600% with their herds and end up with severe depression when the **** hits the fan.

kerry cow

I think teagasc has let us down with the practice of slurry spreading periods , the shouldn't be involved in research with companies like glanbia ,kerry etc for farm walks and discussion groups , greenfield etc .
Can teagasc tell me the cost of kerry processing , or any small Co op for that matter per litre , etc .
I think they should be independent from industry .
They should also come out and explain to people that their research is based on the best land in ireland ,has no mixed quality land like a lot of farmers have to deal with .
They also operate small groups of cows , with best roads , and housing facilities , have plenty of staff for all occasions and no stress on man or beast .
How are your large group of mostly a one man band herd of cows , expected to turn out a performance, on mixed land type, farm 24/7 , doing all the paper works and banking etc and we are expected to compare .
Any young guy needs to know your own farm limits .and even though you may not match what teagasc can achieve or what your Co op expect you to produce milk for or beef for that matter ,it doesn't mean your not doing a sterling job .

Gawddawggonnit

davidk1394 wrote: »

Agree totally with you. A simple example is the nitrates, a lot of dairy farmers are over their derogation limits so their looking for tillage farmers maps to "spread" slurry on. A neighbour did this with another farmer and he wouldn't give him the slurry then after he giving him the maps. Do they want it all their own way ??
.

Careful now...some truths are not to be spoken out loud. Dairy expansion does NOT contribute to nitrate leeching...

Waffletraktor

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Careful now...some truths are not to be spoken out loud. Dairy expansion does NOT contribute to nitrate leeching...

What like guys keeping granlime in their yards as a cover to go spread fertiliser out of season?

visatorro

davidk1394 wrote: »

Agree totally with you. A simple example is the nitrates, a lot of dairy farmers are over their derogation limits so their looking for tillage farmers maps to "spread" slurry on. A neighbour did this with another farmer and he wouldn't give him the slurry then after he giving him the maps. Do they want it all their own way ??
The IFJ did a big article about stress among dairy farmers due to increased work load, it was self inflicted by the farmer to increase the cows. What's wrong with 80-100 cows, a nice living and a good work\life balance. There's fellas around here that increased over 600% with their herds and end up with severe depression when the **** hits the fan.

You'll never get anywhere unless you push on and fall out with the neighbours. The bigger bastard you are the better you get on, simple fact of life.

Gawddawggonnit

kerry cow wrote: »

I think teagasc has let us down with the practice of slurry spreading periods , the shouldn't be involved in research with companies like glanbia ,kerry etc for farm walks and discussion groups , greenfield etc .
Can teagasc tell me the cost of kerry processing , or any small Co op for that matter per litre , etc .
I think they should be independent from industry .
They should also come out and explain to people that their research is based on the best land in ireland ,has no mixed quality land like a lot of farmers have to deal with .
They also operate small groups of cows , with best roads , and housing facilities , have plenty of staff for all occasions and no stress on man or beast .
How are your large group of mostly a one man band herd of cows , expected to turn out a performance, on mixed land type, farm 24/7 , doing all the paper works and banking etc and we are expected to compare .
Any young guy needs to know your own farm limits .and even though you may not match what teagasc can achieve or what your Co op expect you to produce milk for or beef for that matter ,it doesn't mean your not doing a sterling job .

I find it difficult to agree with the main points of your post.

Teagasc are a vital research facility.
They were asked by the establishment to quantify the capacity for dairy expansion in Ireland, and they did exactly as asked...did they consider the impact on nitrates, carbon emissions, labor supply? Probably not, or not deeply enough.

When you ask a research facility a question, the question/research must have many inclusive parameters...like environmental impact, non intentional consequences etc.

When asked to look at no-till, min-till and non inversion tillage, Teagasc summarized that it was a way of possibly reducing diesel consumption...

The questions that are asked are vital for a broad result on the gains/losses/conséquences/impacts etc.

Gawddawggonnit

Waffletraktor wrote: »

What like guys keeping granlime in their yards as a cover to go spread fertiliser out of season?

Oh yea, and even better, nitrogen invoiced as granlime!

Gawddawggonnit

visatorro wrote: »

You'll never get anywhere unless you push on and fall out with the neighbours. The bigger bastard you are the better you get on, simple fact of life.

Totally disagree.

patsy_mccabe

And the alternative to Teagasc is..........?

Gawddawggonnit

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

And the alternative to Teagasc is..........?

Exactly.

jaymla627

kerry cow wrote: »

Have teagasc got it wrong and leading us down the garden path filling our fields with high polluters .if you had a high producer cow producing 600 kg milk solids v a crossbred doing 450 kg .a cow tax and more limits are steaming down the track to derail the little cow syndrome.
It wouldnt be the first time they got it wrong .
They built in the 80s a cow shed here a fancy roofed silo shed next to it ,a big open yard for the slurry and rain water , a ramp up to the pit and the new milking palour a distance away .
Then we had the high yielding holsteins of the 90s and now the crossbreds
. They have been doing emissions test on cows with 15yrs or more and now the tax is coming .
The not so funny thing is , how fast things move these days , before you'd hear something and it would be years to implement .
Tis worrying times when you hear with no subsidies that 20 % would only be profitable .
Farming is a becoming a bit of a nonsense way of living

It would take a decade of retraining Irish farmers and using proper genetics to achieve a average of 600kgs of milk solids a cow delivered on a lot of farms, not getting into a ebi bashing trend our the power of grass and so forth, but the stall has been set-out and 99% of dairy farmers have opted for the teagasc route which means highly stocked farms needing derogation to survive along with cooking the books re exploring slurry and the rest....
The game is up if derogation isn't renewed and the whole mantra of what teagasc have been preaching the past 20 odd years is practically useless, would be pretty funny to be fair though seeing teagasc having to push extreme Holstein bulls like supersire and mogul on lads to try and inject a lot of milk quickly into their herds to try and get milk solids sold per cows up on farm, of course it will all fall down when they keep banging on about still using grass and a shake of nuts when extreme weather events occur our grass is scare to achieve this

farisfat

kerry cow wrote: »

Have teagasc got it wrong and leading us down the garden path filling our fields with high polluters .if you had a high producer cow producing 600 kg milk solids v a crossbred doing 450 kg .a cow tax and more limits are steaming down the track to derail the little cow syndrome.
It wouldnt be the first time they got it wrong .
They built in the 80s a cow shed here a fancy roofed silo shed next to it ,a big open yard for the slurry and rain water , a ramp up to the pit and the new milking palour a distance away .
Then we had the high yielding holsteins of the 90s and now the crossbreds
. They have been doing emissions test on cows with 15yrs or more and now the tax is coming .
The not so funny thing is , how fast things move these days , before you'd hear something and it would be years to implement .
Tis worrying times when you hear with no subsidies that 20 % would only be profitable .
Farming is a becoming a bit of a nonsense way of living

Teagasc supply the info up to you what you want to do.
Who knows what the best way forward is.
High yielding hols doing 600kgs with high inputs or a oad system doing 400kgs from clover and herb pasture.......someone here might have the answer if Teagasc don't.

kerry cow

I have no problem with teagasc once they stand independent from politics .they do a lot of good work but they are one sided and don't represent all farms across the island types .

whelan2

kerry cow wrote: »

I have no problem with teagasc once they stand independent from politics .they do a lot of good work but they are one sided and don't represent all farms across the island types .

Look it's the same as the farmers journal, not all information will suit all farmers. You read it. Wonder will it fit into your system, if it does , well and good. Otherwise forget about it. Was in Ballyhaise a few weeks ago. I was very interested in their extended grazing research as their land would be similar to mine. Turns out they were grazing cows in groups of 30. Now 30 cows wont do anywhere near the same damage as 130 cows going in and out the same gap. The cows were also crossbreds which would be lighter than friesians. Interesting research but not suitable for most farms

Buford T. Justice XIX

jaymla627 wrote: »

It would take a decade of retraining Irish farmers and using proper genetics to achieve a average of 600kgs of milk solids a cow delivered on a lot of farms, not getting into a ebi bashing trend our the power of grass and so forth, but the stall has been set-out and 99% of dairy farmers have opted for the teagasc route which means highly stocked farms needing derogation to survive along with cooking the books re exploring slurry and the rest....
The game is up if derogation isn't renewed and the whole mantra of what teagasc have been preaching the past 20 odd years is practically useless, would be pretty funny to be fair though seeing teagasc having to push extreme Holstein bulls like supersire and mogul on lads to try and inject a lot of milk quickly into their herds to try and get milk solids sold per cows up on farm, of course it will all fall down when they keep banging on about still using grass and a shake of nuts when extreme weather events occur our grass is scare to achieve this

Jaysus, jay, are you really giving out about that?:P

yewtree

There seems to be a suggestion here that teagasc are pushing very high stocking rates but their stocking rates are much lower than a lot of the stocking rates lads have here.
it tends to be smaller herds that will push stocking rates higher to achieve critical mass. A lot of large herds(over 200) i have seen have stocking rates lower than 3/lu.
the reality is tighening of nitrates would effect all systems. The idea that it would lead us back to north american genetics doesnt really stand up. There is much more to farm profit than milk yield/cow.

davidk1394

visatorro wrote: »

You'll never get anywhere unless you push on and fall out with the neighbours. The bigger bastard you are the better you get on, simple fact of life.

I dunno about that. You'll end up with a longer list of enemies than friends. There's no need to be a prick when you expand numbers

davidk1394

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

And the alternative to Teagasc is..........?

Nothing and I think we'd be better of with nothing.... well coming from the drystock side anyway.

jaymla627

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Jaysus, jay, are you really giving out about that?:P

Making a simple observation is all haha, going forward I'm not banking on being able to get away with the craic I'm at now and not making any long terms plans that hinge-on needing derogation, looking around and it's applicable to most intense dairy areas throughout Ireland huge sums of money are being pumped into farms if a lad spends the guts of a million on a greenfield site banking on running it at 3 plus cows to ha and with the stroke of a pen in Brussels this knocks it back to two the proverbial hits the fan

grassroot1

kerry cow wrote: »

I have no problem with teagasc once they stand independent from politics .they do a lot of good work but they are one sided and don't represent all farms across the island types .

It is a wonder your not giving the IFA a dig aswell

K.G.

Warning people with a certain way of thinking should not look at kevin morans clips on thats farming.could seriously damage their health.i know the gods may have been kind to him in some ways but i just love the attitude

kerry cow

grassroot1 wrote:

It is a wonder your not giving the IFA a dig aswell

Don't start me

Sac O Spuds

Teagasc loyalty lies with big business doing research and getting well rewarded for it. The income derived from advising farmers is only a fraction of the total. I can't post a link but remember reading a figure of farm advice only brought in around 12% of their total income. Plenty offices after closing in the last 10 yrs.
I'm biased In my views as my dealings with them yrs ago left a sour taste. Pen pushers working with figures on paper.

Gawddawggonnit

jaymla627 wrote: »

Making a simple observation is all haha, going forward I'm not banking on being able to get away with the craic I'm at now and not making any long terms plans that hinge-on needing derogation, looking around and it's applicable to most intense dairy areas throughout Ireland huge sums of money are being pumped into farms if a lad spends the guts of a million on a greenfield site banking on running it at 3 plus cows to ha and with the stroke of a pen in Brussels this knocks it back to two the proverbial hits the fan

+1.
There are many variables that can hit from outside the Farm gate.

Nitrates are just one. A big one.
Shame that the powers that be wait until the gun is to their head (and hammers back) before steps are taken...

The facts are that we produce enough food for 10 billion people atm, and production is rising, while the state of the environment is falling. This creates an open goal for politicians to interfere. An example.... in my neck of the woods liquid slurry production and storage is now not allowed, whether it be pigs, cows or ducks. What major consequences would that have for Irish farming?
Glyphosate is another little example. Farmers think that common sense/scientific research won out. It didn’t. Politics won out. German Green Party talks with Merkels party collapsed and therefore the German gov could vote as it pleased. France and Italy are livid, but it’s easy for them as glyphosate isn’t very important in western and Southern Europe. I’d bet that glyphosate will be gone in five yrs.

I was in Tipp on Monday for a funeral and it struck me that there


Edit. Whole load of bullcrap lost...
Had to do with the biggest landowner in Ireland farms horses...due to Haugheys tax break to stud farms.
Biggest landowner in UK is an industrialist and only involved because of inheritance tax laws.

What happens outside our gates is becoming more and more important.

pms7

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

And the alternative to Teagasc is..........?

Been on farms in Scotland, alternative is ration salesman. From what I could see there, he is more involved in the running of the farm there than any Teagasc advisor is here.

kerry cow

I think a smaller lightly stocked unit will provide a low stress levels for the farmer , land and beast .
It's all going full circle to bygone times of farming in the 60s

kerry cow

just looking at the OP , where are we now , 2yrs wiser

older by the day

It's up to one selves. You can still choose your own stocking rate and make life as easy or as hard as one choose. Problem is that input costs are catching up with the outputs every year, the farmer is literally the "squeezed middle".

amacca

older by the day wrote: »

It's up to one selves. You can still choose your own stocking rate and make life as easy or as hard as one choose. Problem is that input costs are catching up with the outputs every year, the farmer is literally the "squeezed middle".

Im coming to the conclusion the only solution is aim for little or no inputs going forward and dont be tempted back in later

Neighbour got a plan from group he was in for 10 rounds/rotation of fertiliser applications.......ffs the cost of that alone before you talk about diesel and time etc

Im aiming for whatever numbers the place can support comfortably with minimum inputs and minimum hassle and reckon ill be better off......its a joke running to stand still.

Next stop overseed "hungry" new reseeds with mixed species or min fertiliser seed mixes......

Never thought id consider introducing plantain into a field.

Bass Reeves

amacca wrote: »

Im coming to the conclusion the only solution is aim for little or no inputs going forward and dont be tempted back in later

Neighbour got a plan from group he was in for 10 rounds/rotation of fertiliser applications.......ffs the cost of that alone before you talk about diesel and time etc

Im aiming for whatever numbers the place can support comfortably with minimum inputs and minimum hassle and reckon ill be better off......its a joke running to stand still.

Next stop overseed "hungry" new reseeds with mixed species or min fertiliser seed mixes......

Never thought id consider introducing plantain into a field.

I not sure about the dairy side but they have definitely got it wrong on the beef side. Lads running to stand still. Expansion, efficiency, bulls and adlib ration.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I not sure about the dairy side but they have definitely got it wrong on the beef side. Lads running to stand still. Expansion, efficiency, bulls and adlib ration.

I farmers can't work out their enterprise for themselves they're better off not at it, same as any business.
Teagasc, IFA, bord bia are a handy excuse for bad farm management..... look at the price of store cattle, if the beef price is circa 3.60 next year everyone bar the farmer will be told they're a bollicks

20silkcut

wrangler wrote: »

I farmers can't work out their enterprise for themselves they're better off not at it, same as any business.
Teagasc, IFA, bord bia are a handy excuse for bad farm management..... look at the price of store cattle, if the beef price is circa 3.60 next year everyone bar the farmer will be told they're a bollicks

I would say that a lot of farmers in this country particularly the lower IQ ones are more influenced by what their friends and neighbours are at rather than following advice from Teagasc.
I notice myself in my locality when one lad buys a new tractor inevitably within the space of 3/4 months several more will follow often with the same model or slightly higher. To me it is the height of stupidity a prime example of the herd mentality and petty one up man ship. And it doesn’t just apply to tractors but everything from sheds to herd size to silage acreage to slurry storage etc etc. It’s all a dick measuring exercise.

Now you could argue that they are wisely using pre selection in that if it’s good enough for their neighbour it is good enough for them. And that is a sound a reason as any. But more often than not it is keeping up with the Jones and the urge to be a bit bigger than thy neighbour is definitely not a sound business model. The most successful profitable and least stressed farmers I know are the ones who don’t get caught up in anything like that.

Welding Rod

20silkcut wrote: »

I would say that a lot of farmers in this country particularly the lower IQ ones are more influenced by what their friends and neighbours are at rather than following advice from Teagasc.
I notice myself in my locality when one lad buys a new tractor inevitably within the space of 3/4 months several more will follow often with the same model or slightly higher. To me it is the height of stupidity a prime example of the herd mentality and petty one up man ship. And it doesn’t just apply to tractors but everything from sheds to herd size to silage acreage to slurry storage etc etc. It’s all a dick measuring exercise.

Now you could argue that they are wisely using pre selection in that if it’s good enough for their neighbour it is good enough for them. And that is a sound a reason as any. But more often than not it is keeping up with the Jones and the urge to be a bit bigger than thy neighbour is definitely not a sound business model. The most successful profitable and least stressed farmers I know are the ones who don’t get caught up in anything like that.

And who exactly might you be, that you are able to judge and pass public comment on the IQ of your neighbours?

20silkcut

Welding Rod wrote: »

And who exactly might you be, that you are able to judge and pass public comment on the IQ of your neighbours?

Doesn’t matter who I am.

Welding Rod

20silkcut wrote: »

Doesn’t matter who I am.

A person of high IQ .... or is that just plain old fashioned arrogance ????

davidk1394

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

20silkcut

Welding Rod wrote: »

A person of high IQ .... or is that just plain old fashioned arrogance ????

IQ is as much a variable among farmers as it is among the general population.

And I’m far from the worlds most intelligent farmer.

jaymla627

davidk1394 wrote: »

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

Considering the cap on stock relief doing the above would leave you with a lovely tax bill for increased stock value on the books over the 3 years , unless operating as a company, did he even outline that very important point our was it forgotten about

whelan2

davidk1394 wrote: »

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

Every farm is different. Apparently I could have 300 cows here. Now who is going to calve and milk them ? What happens if it rains, like now, on heavy land. No thanks.

Danzy

The last time Stores were so strong in August was 2015 off the top of my head and not fully sure they were as high.


Here are the prices for the end of August that year.
Last week of AUGUST 2015
Steers €4.05/kg
Heifers €4.15 -€4.20

Add in that inputs have jumped an incredible amount in 5 short years.

It's hard to figure out the crack in the mart the last month, for quite a few lads with cattle, the return is not the main driver, only explanation.

wrangler

davidk1394 wrote: »

From my brief experience with Teagasc they want to push everything to the max like grass, fertiliser, land and the farmer. A quick example was doing my farm business plan. I told my advisor I want to grow steadily over a period of 5 years. He said get a loan and jump from 50 to 130 cows in three years, I asked him will he calf the extra cows for me in the spring? Another quick example was planting the chicory and plantain in with grass. The advisor couldn't understand why I would waste money on this.

New entrants are going to the max around here and , apart from a couple of small farms, herds of 130 would be the minimum start.
They seem to be working well, you can't say they were badly advised , but they themselves put in huge research. Two of the families had no other income so both farms had to generate two incomes each from the start .
In any business an advisers job is to maximise the potential of the business, ultimately an advisor will present projected cashflows and if you agree with them and it goes wrong it's on your own head.
A new entrant beside me is inluding accomadation for the foreigner in his development that he's going to employ and he has only 70 acres.

tabby aspreme

A neighbour of mine, who has done well for himself farming over the years, always said about Teagasc and their predecessors, that they will tell you how to spend money, not how to make money

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

New entrants are going to the max around here and , apart from a couple of small farms, herds of 130 would be the minimum start.
They seem to be working well, you can't say they were badly advised , but they themselves put in huge research. Two of the families had no other income so both farms had to generate two incomes each from the start .
In any business an advisers job is to maximise the potential of the business, ultimately an advisor will present projected cashflows and if you agree with them and it goes wrong it's on your own head.
A new entrant beside me is inluding accomadation for the foreigner in his development that he's going to employ and he has only 70 acres.

In all fairness the examples where half a million plus and the rest could be dropped to milk a few hundred cows the first year is the result of farms been mortgaged to obtain money that where probably relatively debt free before the venture into milking, so by all intent and purposes new entrants with the deeds handed over to the bank have no choice but to make it work, if tams grants weren't available and in alot of cases good sized sfp cheques coming in every October you wouldn't of had a quarter of lads flooding into milk cows

wrangler

tabby aspreme wrote: »

A neighbour of mine, who has done well for himself farming over the years, always said about Teagasc and their predecessors, that they will tell you how to spend money, not how to make money

They usually say that after making a f..k up of their own farm, they're not honest
enough to say what really happened, Isn't that my point.
Pat Wall always claimed that BSE means Blame Someone Else

amacca

wrangler wrote: »

A new entrant beside me is inluding accomadation for the foreigner in his development that he's going to employ and he has only 70 acres.

methinks he is getting ahead of himself

visatorro

visatorro wrote: »

You'll never get anywhere unless you push on and fall out with the neighbours. The bigger bastard you are the better you get on, simple fact of life.

There is allway somebody out there to put you on the canvas when you feel you wont to walk on people.