Ireland V Argentina, 25th Nov 2017, KO: 17:30 Irish time (GMT), RTE2 and Sky Sports

Don Kiddick

Surely the only explanation the ref has is he thought it was a different player...a pick and go..and he thought the tackled player was now one of those standing

Dave_The_Sheep

That might be an explanation. It doesn't reflect any better on him - he was looking right at the player. If he thinks that, he thinks his eyes don't work. It was a farcical decision, where they forgot to actually check the play, despite asking to.

Like the panel said, there was no point in that game we looked like losing. But between the (in my opinion) forward pass for the Argentine try, and the potential penalty try for us in the last minute or so, or at least a stroll over for a try, but with them getting a try it's a 21 point swing.

I like to see us putting Argentina to the sword and the scoreline today gives them far more credibility than they deserve. They were ****e.

I wanted to see us put the boot in on the scoreline, and we didn't, because we a) went off the boil and b) the officials were ****.

I am sadder than I should be.

errlloyd

Kearney and Byrne. 8 tackles made and 0 missed each. I'm very happy to see that.

Also, I was probably in the "Farrell is not of standard camp". He had a very good first half. I was suitably impressed.

Cian Healy resurgence is something to behold and treasure.

Utah_Saint

I was at the game, almost inline with the last pass for arg 2ND try, thought it was forward, rewatching on YouTube and I still think it was forward

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

Definitely agree with Venjur, Adam Byrne looked exceptionally nervous today. There were times he was defending on the wing and he was wobbling back and forth unsure of what to commit to. It looked weak, defensively. That's a tough one to work on, someone points it out to him and it might make him more nervous.

From where I was sitting he looked absolutely fine, I dunno what you guys are talking about. Made 8 tackles none missed, wasn't caught out of position at all.

irishbucsfan

Milena Gigantic Salami wrote: »

From where I was sitting he looked absolutely fine, I dunno what you guys are talking about. Made 8 tackles none missed, wasn't caught out of position at all.

Definitely looked hesitant to me and the Argies found a fair bit of space moving left-to-right that they probably wouldn't have gotten out of a more experienced 13/14 combo.

razorblunt

Buer wrote: »

I'm sure we're far from squeaky clean over the years too.

Indeed, I've heard many the rumour over the years.

- Pepper in the salt dispenser, salt in the pepper
- Face towels provided in the changing room instead of bath towels
and worst of all;
- Lyons in what are clearly marked Barry's boxes.

Milena Gigantic Salami

Milena Gigantic Salami wrote: »

From where I was sitting he looked absolutely fine, I dunno what you guys are talking about. Made 8 tackles none missed, wasn't caught out of position at all.

Like I said, he was fine. No obvious mistakes but a bit of a nervy outing.

FrannoFan

prawnsambo wrote: »

I didn't say that and Venjur was taking the piss.

Yeah he was consistent, but it annoys me when there's no contest for the ball. It kind of negates the point of rucks.

So you agree he was consistent which is pretty much the most you can hope for with the fluctuations between referee interpretations in the modern game.

You can not like a refs interpretation but just because it disagrees with yours doesn't make him a bad ref.

Ireland conceded 11 turnovers
Argentina conceded 15 turnovers

Suguests a level of contest was allowed

FrannoFan

prawnsambo wrote: »

I didn't say that and Venjur was taking the piss.

Yeah he was consistent, but it annoys me when there's no contest for the ball. It kind of negates the point of rucks.

So you agree he was consistent which is pretty much the most you can hope for with the fluctuations between referee interpretations in the modern game.

You can not like a refs interpretation but just because it disagrees with yours doesn't make him a bad ref.

Ireland conceded 11 turnovers
Argentina conceded 15 turnovers

Suguests a level of contest was allowed

irishbucsfan

FrannoFan wrote: »

So you agree he was consistent which is pretty much the most you can hope for with the fluctuations between referee interpretations in the modern game.

You can not like a refs interpretation but just because it disagrees with yours doesn't make him a bad ref.

Ireland conceded 11 turnovers
Argentina conceded 15 turnovers

Suguests a level of contest was allowed

You can think a referee was completely correct and consistent while also not liking their interpretation. Those two are not mutually exclusive in rugby. I don't see anywhere that prawnsambo said the ref had a bad game.

He's definitely extremely protective of the team in possession. Pretty sure Joe Schmidt said exactly that in his post-match comments. It's very frustrating defensively and it changes how the game plays out, but good teams can deal with it. Gatland would adore that ref, let's hope we don't get him for Wales.

Former Former

Byrne did fine. But when you compare him to the impact Stockdale made...

Still, eight tackles, none missed; for a player whose defence is his biggest weakness that's a good stat.

A few solid outings in December and January could see him in the wider 6N squad.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You can think a referee was completely correct and consistent while also not liking their interpretation. Those two are not mutually exclusive in rugby. I don't see anywhere that prawnsambo said the ref had a bad game.

He's definitely extremely protective of the team in possession. Pretty sure Joe Schmidt said exactly that in his post-match comments. It's very frustrating defensively and it changes how the game plays out, but good teams can deal with it. Gatland would adore that ref, let's hope we don't get him for Wales.

Yeah, he called Rory Best over at one stage and told him to tell the team to stop slowing their ball down. Rory was a bit bemused about that.

We were getting turnover ball in the first half from line speed and forcing errors, but they were a bit cannier with ball in hand in the second half and went to ground rather than try a 50/50 pass under pressure, so we lost that outlet too. Or the little dink through which worked a couple of times as well.

They're an experienced team who have had a lot of time together and their fitness was a lot better than we'd expected.

Zzippy

razorblunt wrote: »

Indeed, I've heard many the rumour over the years.

- Pepper in the salt dispenser, salt in the pepper
- Face towels provided in the changing room instead of bath towels
and worst of all;
- Lyons in what are clearly marked Barry's boxes.

That's unforgivable, and if true, should be heavily punished by World Rugby. I'm talking expulsion from the 6N here...

pickarooney

FrannoFan wrote: »

So you agree he was consistent which is pretty much the most you can hope for with the fluctuations between referee interpretations in the modern game.

You can not like a refs interpretation but just because it disagrees with yours doesn't make him a bad ref.

Ireland conceded 11 turnovers
Argentina conceded 15 turnovers

Suguests a level of contest was allowed

I reckon about 10 of Argentina's were being stripped in the tackle. Their carrying technique, presumably to facilitate offloads, was very poor and I'd say Schmidt targeted that.

paddyref

irishbucsfan wrote:

He's definitely extremely protective of the team in possession. Pretty sure Joe Schmidt said exactly that in his post-match comments. It's very frustrating defensively and it changes how the game plays out, but good teams can deal with it. Gatland would adore that ref, let's hope we don't get him for Wales.

Probably the main reason O'Brien was pulled, wasn't needed on the pitch if the ref not allowing contest at the breakdown.

wavehopper1

Former Former wrote: »

Byrne did fine. But when you compare him to the impact Stockdale made...

Still, eight tackles, none missed; for a player whose defence is his biggest weakness that's a good stat.

A few solid outings in December and January could see him in the wider 6N squad.

Byrne doesn't need to worry about Stockdale, he's competing with Sweetnam for a fringe spot as the up-and-comer.
Both lads looked fine to throw on against second tier opposition. If just one of them can push on from what we've seen, we'll be doing well.

.ak

I thought Byrne did really well at the one thing he's been lambasted for: tackling.

He made all his tackles, and then was moved to 13 during a period where we had feck all possession so had to make more tackles, and nothing got past him.

He never got the ball, which was unfortunate, but the one or two time he did get it he made yards, he was unlucky not to receive the ball in their 22. Such is the life of a right winger!

For me, if Farrell had stayed on the pitch a bit longer, he was my motm. Wonderful performance, passing, running, tackling was all immense. That no look pass to Sexton was worth the admission price alone.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

I thought Byrne did really well at the one thing he's been lambasted for: tackling.

He made all his tackles, and then was moved to 13 during a period where we had feck all possession so had to make more tackles, and nothing got past him.

He never got the ball, which was unfortunate, but the one or two time he did get it he made yards, he was unlucky not to receive the ball in their 22. Such is the life of a right winger!

For me, if Farrell had stayed on the pitch a bit longer, he was my motm. Wonderful performance, passing, running, tackling was all immense. That no look pass to Sexton was worth the admission price alone.

Yeah Farrell had a really good game. Not perfect, but then nobody (John Eales) is, but it was probably the standout centre performance of the series. I have to confess I didn't think he had it in him. Joe clearly sees something in him and he may well thrive nmunder his guidance. It will be interesting to see how he goes with Munster on his return from Ireland camp.

Alpha_zero

Argentina use friendlies to blood new players and try new things, cause they understand what these Autumn internationals are about. They also know that when it gets down to the business side of things, namely important world cup games that the Irish enter the game thinking they will have an easy win, then reality comes crashing home, and another World cup campaign comes to an abrupt end.

There appears to be a trend developing here, when it's non competition we win, but when the stakes are high we get a dose of reality.

OldRio

Tis a good job we never blooded new players and tried different things. Same old conservative Joe.
(Sarcasm mode on)

BTW What is a rugby friendly? Never heard the term before. It's called a test match for a reason.

irishbucsfan

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Same old story Ireland win when there is nothing at stake, but in the important games the ones that count the Pumas put us away.

Alpha_zero wrote: »

When we next meet them in world cup will be the favourites to win and then get hammered again.

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Irish Rugby is overrated, a history of bottling it, all one needs to do is look at a dismal world cup performance that was somehow spun in a positive manner. We went into that game thinking we would beat Argentina and were in for a rude awakening

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Crucially they still bottle it when it really matters, this has shown no sign of changing.

Alpha_zero wrote: »

There appears to be a trend developing here, when it's non competition we win, but when the stakes are high we get a dose of reality.

Yeah, cheers, we get it.

funnyname

How come Kearney wasn't yellow carded for his torpedo no arms tackle when trying to prevent the 2nd Argentina try? It was quite dangerous.

irishbucsfan

funnyname wrote: »

How come Kearney wasn't yellow carded for his torpedo no arms tackle when trying to prevent the 2nd Argentina try? It was quite dangerous.

i thought that at the time, but looking back he does use his right arm. Maybe would have been a penalty elsewhere but because a try was scored that's not relevant.

funnyname

I'll have to look again then

irishbucsfan wrote: »

i thought that at the time, but looking back he does use his right arm. Maybe would have been a penalty elsewhere but because a try was scored that's not relevant.

Burkie1203

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Argentina use friendlies to blood new players and try new things, cause they understand what these Autumn internationals are about. They also know that when it gets down to the business side of things, namely important world cup games that the Irish enter the game thinking they will have an easy win, then reality comes crashing home, and another World cup campaign comes to an abrupt end.

There appears to be a trend developing here, when it's non competition we win, but when the stakes are high we get a dose of reality.

3, 1, 1, 0

Those are the numbers of caps our 11-14 had at kick off yesterday. We also had a 21 year old at lock earning his 3rd or 4th cap and a few guys on the bench still in single digits for caps.

There is a dose of reality for you

prawnsambo

funnyname wrote: »

I'll have to look again then

The pitch side shot shows him with both arms out.

It looked more violent because he was tackling from the side. Always throws the tackled player further than a front on tackle.

MJohnston

Milena Gigantic Salami wrote: »

From where I was sitting he looked absolutely fine, I dunno what you guys are talking about. Made 8 tackles none missed, wasn't caught out of position at all.

I didn’t say he was missing tackles. Watch it back. There’s a certain hesitation in his defensive positioning on the wing that ARG weren’t able to adequately exploit thankfully.

bilston

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Argentina use friendlies to blood new players and try new things, cause they understand what these Autumn internationals are about. They also know that when it gets down to the business side of things, namely important world cup games that the Irish enter the game thinking they will have an easy win, then reality comes crashing home, and another World cup campaign comes to an abrupt end.

There appears to be a trend developing here, when it's non competition we win, but when the stakes are high we get a dose of reality.

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Argentina use friendlies to blood new players and try new things, cause they understand what these Autumn internationals are about. They also know that when it gets down to the business side of things, namely important world cup games that the Irish enter the game thinking they will have an easy win, then reality comes crashing home, and another World cup campaign comes to an abrupt end.

There appears to be a trend developing here, when it's non competition we win, but when the stakes are high we get a dose of reality.

You do know that 4 of our backs yesterday had a combined tally of 5 caps going into yesterday's match?

Add Ryan and one third of our team had 8 caps before yesterday.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, cheers, we get it.

Speak for yourself, I can't wait for the next hot-take on the state of Irish rugby.

pickarooney

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Argentina use friendlies to blood new players and try new things, cause they understand what these Autumn internationals are about. They also know that when it gets down to the business side of things, namely important world cup games that the Irish enter the game thinking they will have an easy win, then reality comes crashing home, and another World cup campaign comes to an abrupt end.

There appears to be a trend developing here, when it's non competition we win, but when the stakes are high we get a dose of reality.

There's definitely a trend of you posting the exact same miserable thing over and over.

phog

A few good performances there on Saturday especially from Kearney, Farrell, Stockdale and Healy. I thought our halfbacks were below par for them, more that they didn’t impose themselves than had poor games. Our backrow were top notch.

What disappointed me most about the game was we let Argentina back into a game where we should have out of sight. My mate was behind the try that Ireland played into in the 2nd half, I messaged him at halftime to say he’d have all the action at his end as it turned out most of the game was at the far end of the field.

thomond2006

This "rugby friendly" guff is guff.

Alpha_zero

pickarooney wrote: »

There's definitely a trend of you posting the exact same miserable thing over and over.

You ok?

Alpha_zero

Argentina are just a superior rugby team, simple really.

Neil3030

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Argentina are just a superior rugby team, simple really.

Clearly:

Alpha_zero

Neil3030 wrote: »

Clearly:

Tell me what is our best finish at a world cup lol

Burkie1203

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Tell me what is our best finish at a world cup lol

The world cup is once every four years. For years Argentina didnt have players based at home. They had all their players in europe mostly. The IRFU is having to fund four provinces and the money comes from the 6n and AIs. We simply dont have the scope to just abandon multiple 6n and AI series just to increase the chances of a RWC SF appearance.

I would gladly take an irish province (leinster preferably) winning the European cup in 2018 or 2019 over a RWC QF win.

Alpha_zero

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Tell me what is our best finish at a world cup lol

Yeah but how many grand slams have Argentina won?

connemara man

http://www.offtheball.com/You-dont-have-to-like-rugby-but-please-spare-us-the-smugness

typhoony

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The world cup is once every four years. For years Argentina didnt have players based at home. They had all their players in europe mostly. The IRFU is having to fund four provinces and the money comes from the 6n and AIs. We simply dont have the scope to just abandon multiple 6n and AI series just to increase the chances of a RWC SF appearance.

I would gladly take an irish province (leinster preferably) winning the European cup in 2018 or 2019 over a RWC QF win.

So where do you draw the line, RWC SF win over a European Cup?

i'd take a RWC QF win over any other game 6 Nations win or European win

Burkie1203

typhoony wrote: »

So where do you draw the line, RWC SF win over a European Cup?

If we are going to sacrifice so much then only a RWC win would suffice. Competitive provinces are needed to grow the game here. Putting all our eggs in a rwc basket just isnt worth the risk

.ak

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Argentina are just a superior rugby team, simple really.

Consider this your first and final warning. We know exactly what you're looking for, and you're not getting it.

Anymore "Argentina are better than Ireland" stuff will result in a ban. You've made your "point", move on.

molloyjh

Just an interesting point for the record. Ireland have beaten Argentina 6 of the last 7 times of asking, including the tour down there in 2014. They’ve regularly overperformed at RWCs while we’ve regularly underperformed. In the wider context though that means the square root of f-all. We’re better by ever single measure bar one.

Also, they bring the coldest weather to all November games.

Alpha_zero

.ak wrote: »

Consider this your first and final warning. We know exactly what you're looking for, and you're not getting it.

Anymore "Argentina are better than Ireland" stuff will result in a ban. You've made your "point", move on.

I can easily back up that opinion, based on facts. Does it make you feel good threatening me.

Alpha_zero

molloyjh wrote: »

Just an interesting point for the record. Ireland have beaten Argentina 6 of the last 7 times of asking, including the tour down there in 2014. They’ve regularly overperformed at RWCs while we’ve regularly underperformed. In the wider context though that means the square root of f-all. We’re better by ever single measure bar one.

Also, they bring the coldest weather to all November games.

Yeah but that is the one that counts.

OldRio

Alpha_zero wrote: »

I can easily back up that opinion, based on facts. Does it make you feel good threatening me.

Oh deary deary me.

Burkie1203

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Yeah but that is the one that counts.

Every game counts. The financial reality of pro rugby in Ireland dictates as much.

FrannoFan

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Yeah but that is the one that counts.

From the irfu point of view the financial difference between quarters and semi final isn't massive.
6 nations and European cup are where the money is.
Irfu not too worried about world cup

http://www.totalsportek.com/rugby/rwc-2015-prize-money/

thomond2006

Quo...