Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] *Spoilers*

RobbingBandit

Galadriel is over 8000 years old when she sails west the depiction here may look Brienne of Tarth warrior wench like but I'm only guessing that she will still be quite young compared to the Lady of the Woods type we seen in The LOTR trilogy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119486274#Comment_119486274

We'll see but at no point is she depicted as a soldier/adventurer elf, AFAIK

Niska

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485771#Comment_119485771

 I don't want to see a CW-like love triangle between Galadrial, Elrond and Celeborn

Seeing as Elrond married Celbrian (Galadriel and Celeborn's daughter) - euggh.

And they could have used her instead of Galadriel if they needed their warrior-princess. In built love story with Elrond, possibly mirror the Aragorn / Arwen theme of proving himself - creating a touch stone with the original. As there is next to nothing on this in the books, plenty of blank canvas.

The main concern, for me, would be the fact they have the rights to the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. But not Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales or any of the other History of Middle Earth books. So the entire series is hanging on three or four pages of timelines in the LotR Appendices. Guess the one's watching with most intensity will be the Tolkien estate's lawyers.

CastorTroy

Now this makes things confusing.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/18/23311082/embracer-group-acquisition-lord-of-the-rings-hobbit-limited-run-games-tripwire

https://www.pcgamer.com/embracer-goes-on-spending-spree-buys-lord-of-the-rings-ip-rights-tripwire-interactive-and-more/

Embracer Group have been on a buying spree of games companies, but in their latest round of acquisitions, they've bought the IP rights to LotR and The Hobbit.

So what it means for the Amazon series, I don't know. May just mean they have a new crowd to pay for the rights going forward and no change that we'll see.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119487906#Comment_119487906

Wasn't there something in those Twilight books about Werewolf guy who was love interest of main girl then marrying her supernaturally-aged daughter? (Aged 20 years in 2 or something)? Talk about your Euggh. Jesus!

The more I think about it, the more a Rangers/Dunedain series would have been a more obvious "In". You would have had (almost) human characters who would age (almost) the same rate. Cutting down on effects/prosthetic costs and need not worry about the progress of time. Their dispersed nature would allow them to touch/interact with many existing characters to whatever degree they wish. Think of it as a human eye on a huge magical world.

I suppose it's that they want established characters. That is interesting about the rights. I assumed they had the whole universe. However I see that a game studio has bought the game rights. God it's so fragmented. The amount of money changing hands is staggering.

Christopher Tolkien did so much work, in the extended works, that rights are worth a fortune. He only died in 2020 so they are not going into public domain in our life-times

Niska

The Embracer Press Release:

https://embracer.com/release/embracer-group-enters-into-agreement-to-acquire-ip-rights-to-the-lord-of-the-rings-and-the-hobbit-literary-works-by-j-r-r-tolkien/

Embracer Group AB (”Embracer”), through its wholly owned subsidiary Freemode[1], has entered into an agreement to acquire Middle-earth Enterprises, a division of The Saul Zaentz Company, which owns a vast intellectual property catalogue and worldwide rights to motion pictures, video games, board games, merchandising, theme parks and stage productions relating to the iconic fantasy literary works The Lord of the Rings trilogy and The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien, as well as matching rights in other Middle-earth-related literary works authorized by the Tolkien Estate and HarperCollins, which have yet to be explored.

Should not affect the Ring of Powers as those rights were negotiate directly from Tolkien Estate rather than SAul Zaentz.

https://winteriscoming.net/2022/02/16/lord-of-the-rings-film-rights-back-on-the-market-for-around-2-billion/#:~:text=The%20reason%20Amazon%20was%20able,for%20a%20cool%20%24250%20million.

Now, with The Rings of Power on the way this might be a bit confusing, so let’s break it down. Saul Zaentz Co. has had the rights to The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit since 1976, when entrepreneur and fantasy fan Saul Zaentz purchased them from the Tolkien estate. The reason Amazon was able to make its new show is because the right to make television series longer than eight episodes is something that was not included in Zaentz Co.’s portfolio of rights, meaning Amazon was able to go straight to the Tolkien Estate and purchase those rights for a cool $250 million.

And back to the Embracer press release

Other opportunities include exploring additional movies based on iconic characters such as Gandalf, Aragorn, Gollum, Galadriel, Eowyn and other characters from the literary works of J.R.R. Tolkien, and continue to provide new opportunities for fans to explore this fictive world through merchandising and other experiences.

Time to pitch Gandalf and Saruman - The College Years. Running gag of Saruman stealing Gandalf's pipeweed and blaming it on Radagast. Also two extra hoods on coat pegs in the background, that change colour scene to scene (red, purple, green - anything but blue).

Wonder if they will leave the Battle for Middle Earth modding community alone...

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488554#Comment_119488554

Seeing how they are not Nintendo / Sony / Blizzard chances are better than usual...

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119488449#Comment_119488449

My God. I thought it was just the game rights. That really does muddy the waters, doesn't it? I mean I took each interpretation as their own thing, mainly because the Jackson trilogy finished in 2003 (😯 2003???!!! Twenty years ago next year??!! Mental). But we now have a potential situation where we have different versions of characters on movie/TV at the same time.

I know there are examples of different versions of the same character or different studios with ownership of characters used in other projects. Think Spiderman being used in the MCU movies and the two different versions of quicksilver in Days of Future Past and Age of Ultron. The closest I can think of is Connery playing James Bond in "Never Say Never Again" I think it was. There were some legal shenanigans with Thunderball. So you had another studio gaining the rights to this story.

Very interesting to see how this pans out.

johnny_ultimate

There seems to be confusion amongst the trades about what, if anything, this means for TV rights: I've seen a few headlines on front pages saying the deal includes TV rights but then no mention of it in the actual articles. I'd imagine the Amazon deal completely stands though.

I'm very dubious about the Embracer group in general. They're buying up game studios like it's nobody's business, and that's exactly what gaming doesn't need at the moment. I've no idea what they plan to do with these LotR rights beyond games, because there's no indication really of what they plan to do outside of games at all. Frankly, they're acting more like some sort of venture capitalist group or something than anything else with the amount of 'IP' (shudder) they're collecting.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489228#Comment_119489228

Could be setting themselves to be bought up by Microsoft / Sony instead as there's a general purchase spree to tie up game studios and IPs to the consoles.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483753#Comment_119483753

Game of Thrones didn't have this much anticipation before an episode even aired. People have been waiting for this for a long time now

Difference between trepidation and hype

Nody

Well there's been some kind of pre-screen done in India of the first two episodes; you should be able to find people talking about it (no NDAs were signed). I'll summarize the comments below but as always hard to put things in context.

Q: Are there calm and epic landscape shots and slow camera movements over important places/cities like the PJ did? Those scenes always gave a great understanding of the world to me.

A: Some, yes. But not as much as I'd have liked.

Q: How was the prologue? Does it set up things well or is it rushed? Balrogs?

A: It was rushed (but so was the prologue of the LOTR trilogy imo)

Q: How was it? How would you rate it out of 10?

A: 6.5/10 (just my opinion)

It's absolutely worth watching for an LOTR fan. But it's not perfect.

Some visuals were gorgeous on the big screen.

Q: Asked about his other movie ratings in general to put it in context

A: LOTR trilogy movies: 9/10

The hobbit trilogy: 6/10

Wheel of Time series: 5/10

GOT seasons 1-6: 8.5/10

GOT season 7-8: 4/10

Harry Potter movies: 7/10

I've read the LOTR books and The Hobbit. Long back though, so my memory of them is not great. I didn't catch any major deviations, given that this is a prequel.

I'd say that the series has a lot of potential, but it still came off as slightly generic as most follow-up corporate productions usually are.

There's also high level spoilers from the Mexico viewing on the one ring forum here but honestly nothing earth shattering as it's once again only the first two episodes outlining some of the events in the first two episodes. The overall feeling I'm getting from these is not an "OMFGWTFBBQ sauce" good but more in the "meh, ok if you're really into it all" and I hope (but doubt) that the rest of the season will improve. The fact LoTR fans (as in book readers of LoTR & Hobbit) are walking out from the preview and not raving about it (let alone the audience in general apparently) should really worry Amazon.

ixoy

The reddit thread above is just one person's opinion it seems so hard to take much from it. Fans can sometimes be the harshest critics although the one in the reddit thread seems fairly level headed.

Agent Coulson

The first two episodes will be getting an early cinema release.

Looks like Ireland is also one of the locations for the cinema release.

I wonder which cinema chain will get it.

Outside of the U.S. and Canada, Amazon will also screen the series in locations in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Argentina, Colombia, Australia and New Zealand. Reports indicate that the fan event will unfold across roughly 200 locations globally.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-of-power-amazon-theater-screening-1235346778/

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119504558#Comment_119504558

Could be worth it simply for the beauty of the larger scenes etc. to see them on movie sized screen based on early feedback; I'd say it would be a question how much they would charge for it I guess.

BruteStock

Amazon are literally paying for people to watch this show now. You even get free snacks if you're in America. Not a good look. The show is clearly not tracking as well as they hoped. No one is talking about it within my own personal wheelhouse and I know a few who didn't even know it existed until a few weeks ago.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119504558#Comment_119504558

This smacks of trying to drive hype, to be honest.

It is very fecking quiet for such a massive property

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119505181#Comment_119505181

I feel the opposite: for me it has been hard to avoid the marketing for this. There have been ads plastered around Dublin city centre for a few weeks now, which is very rare for a TV show still a few weeks away from release. Similarly, the trailer has been in the cinema for quite a while too. Amazon has been going all out to promote this.

In contrast, I only really realised House of the Dragon (which I did know existed and was coming, but only generally) was premiering so soon after the promo machine and reviews kicked in properly last week.

Marketing means nothing in the general scheme of things and absolutely nothing about the final quality or indeed audience reception of the show, but IMO Amazon has been spending a lot of money and effort on promoting this show - more akin to a big film release than a typical TV show.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119505711#Comment_119505711

I'm not talking about marketing, I'm talking about no one I know talking about this. "Meh" you may think, but many are fantasy fans who were constantly chattering about Wheel of Time and used to post a forum worth of comments on old message boards before the release of Return of the King.

It's tumbleweed from them and complete apathy from anyone else I know

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119505833#Comment_119505833

That's fair enough. TBH I think neither you nor I will be able to pre-judge the success of or interest in this based on our own anecdotal experiences alone, and I don't think the online fantasy enthusiasts will be much of a factor in whether it's a mainstream success or not. LotR is much, much bigger than that thanks to the films.

A few posts above your own have seemed to suggest Amazon's marketing blitz is a signal that they're panicking. Honestly, given it's the most expensive show ever made, I think there'll be a marketing blitz regardless of quality: Amazon simply cannot afford for this to sink without trace. Well, they can afford it since they have all the bloody money in the world, but they certainly don't want a massive, high-profile flop on their hands :P

This could well be poorly received. It could be a massive hit with viewers. It could be a badly-reviewed hit, or a well-reviewed show that doesn't land with the audience. Honestly, it's just too early to tell IMO, and we won't know for sure until we all get to watch it for ourselves in a few weeks - way too early to either write it off or declare it a hit.

The only thing any of us can say without question is that Amazon signed an absolutely ludicrous deal to get this damn thing made! I won't feel any sympathy at all for them it does get met with a shrug, but nor would I be surprised if it is a hit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119505987#Comment_119505987

I think the cinema release is a marketing attempt to drum up some word of mouth. They were expecting much more chatter than it's getting.

I don't know if it's good/bad/meh or if it will succeed but there is definitely a lack of anticipation and Amazon are responding to that

johnny_ultimate

Light House in Dublin showing the first episodes anyway:

https://www.lighthousecinema.ie/film/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119481795#Comment_119481795

Why would anyone need to wait for a review embargo before criticizing the act of slapping an expensive "JRR Tolkien" or "Lord of the Rings" sticker on generic fantasy trash? It's low behavior and I am surprised that more people in media don't ever seem to call this stuff out.

Genuinely would love to see someone ask these writers why they don't just create a fantasy story of their own set in a world of their own creation. Lack of talent?

The media is bought and sold in the sense that they work as a marketing arm for the likes of Amazon and pump out hype for garbage like this in exchange for access, which is where they make their money. Once the subscriptions are paid up nobody gives a damn about the reviews.

I am asking why nobody credible ever seems to question this practice. Why writers who don't have the talent to invent their own intellectual properties are able to work on properties that already have made their cultural mark?

Amazon have basically paid for the rights to use someone else's IP as a marketing ploy for their crappy subscription service. I think it would be cool if some mainstream voices actually called out this poor behavior.

Do they have Lord of the Rings Fortnite skins for 5.99 a pop yet? Probably need to wait to see what they look like before criticizing the practice though, eh?

A sad day if this thing doesn't completely flop.

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484007#Comment_119484007

Yes and if the show turns out to be good then my reaction would simply be that they should have just made their own IP then and made a good new show based on that.

Amazon have basically made a calculation that is a new IP will not make as much money as something with a "Lord of the Rings" sticker on it so they have paid for the LOTR IP an amount that will allow them to make money based on hype and marketing alone. It is just so sleazy and greasy and it's kind of disappointing to see JRR Tolkien's work being used in such a way.

It's kind of sad that cultural works of art like this can't just be left alone and that modern creatives can't just make their own stuff and have it gain popularity on it's own merit.

The simple fact is that nobody working on this Amazon show has the raw talent to do their own thing so they will mindlessly churn out generic trash, make sure to state the appropriate political and cultural talking points of the day and slap a LOTR label on it to try and get some credibility. It's kind of disgusting but people seem to be lapping it up. That's a bit sad.

silverharp

the worst thing for a show like this is that its just average , that means you havnt wow'd the pre existing fans which will put a dampener on any perceived hype by the general public. If the reviewer a page or 2 back who said if you thought Peter Jackson's work was a 9 and this is a 6, thats the kiss of death, 6 is the kind of score you get with a CW show.

All the trailers have been ratio-ed , it would be a rare miss by the collective wisdom if the show won everyone around and had lots of 9.7 and 9.8 episode scores like Better Call Saul. Going for a bland corporate production that will come and go and wont leave much of an impression

ixoy

Film and TV studios are very reluctant to throw money behind fantasy and TV series that aren't established in some form. All the recent ones that come to mind - 'Game of Thrones'/'House of the Dragon', 'Shadow and Bone', 'The Sandman', 'The Expanse', 'The Boys', 'Paper Girls', etc - are from existing IP.

It is not at all a mark or slight against TV writers- studios are just very risk adverse and very rarely hand out cash for something that's brand new and even rarer when it's something that's expensive. They could all be writing excellent scripts but the studios won't bother touching them.

peteeeed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8UAUAuKNcU

new trailer